It Really Would Have Been Nice To Be Asked

Kintarō Hattori

I just googled my flickr username and found various links to my photos/profile as is kinda normal. I was really surprised though to see that someone had totally lifted a photo of Rathmines and implemented into their website. Now they do give a link to my flickr page but still and all it would have been nice to have been asked.

http://www.fotopedia.com/en/Rathmines

It's the picture of the clock tower. Is this a well known site, have any of you lot had images lifted by them?


On another note a flickr contact made me aware of one of my images appearing on a totally seperate website, somewhere I don't want it to be. I've sent a mail to the site asking them to remove it but so far haven't heard anything back, it's been about 36 hours. I guess the next step would be to contact the hosting company, can anyone tell me how I go about that?

AnimalRights

Link to the 2nd site. :P
Curious why you will link 1st and not the 2nd!

KarmaGarda

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

I just googled my flickr username and found various links to my photos/profile as is kinda normal. I was really surprised though to see that someone had totally lifted a photo of Rathmines and implemented into their website. Now they do give a link to my flickr page but still and all it would have been nice to have been asked.

http://www.fotopedia.com/en/Rathmines

It's the picture of the clock tower. Is this a well known site, have any of you lot had images lifted by them?

Yeah, I've had this happen to a protest photo. It got published to a magazine without my permission. I was stupid enough to let it go with just a credit back to my name. Just a small version of the original so nothing major though.

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

On another note a flickr contact made me aware of one of my images appearing on a totally seperate website, somewhere I don't want it to be. I've sent a mail to the site asking them to remove it but so far haven't heard anything back, it's been about 36 hours. I guess the next step would be to contact the hosting company, can anyone tell me how I go about that?

Invoice them for about twice what the usage period is worth. When they pay that invoice them for further usage. May as well chance your arm if they are cheeky enough to chance theirs!

KarmaGarda

bedlam wrote: »

They've complied with the licensing you have set for your photos on Flickr as far as I can see.

Actually, depends on the copyright on the second image too, if it's the same they may not have to pay for anything. Did you get credited in the second instance too?

Kintarō Hattori

bedlam wrote: »

They've complied with the licensing you have set for your photos on Flickr as far as I can see.

Hmnn I was fairly sure I had set it so that they needed to ask my permission/that it wasn't to be used elsewhere.

Edit: Damnit I think you're right. I was fairly sure I had done a batch edit so they were all the same license. Obviously not.

KarmaGarda wrote: »

Actually, depends on the copyright on the second image too, if it's the same they may not have to pay for anything. Did you get credited in the second instance too?

No unfortunately not.

KarmaGarda

bedlam wrote: »

I was only talking in relation to the first as the details of the second are unknown.

I might have been unclear. I was agreeing with your comment on the copyright issue, this may apply to the second image too so my initial post (to invoice them) may not be valid.

Hope that clears things up

AnCatDubh

I thought that fotopedia needed you to upload a submission which would then be considered by the community as to whether appropriate or not.

Have they become a flickr trawler???

KarmaGarda

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

No unfortunately not.

Well, if they make money out of the site it is published on then you are within your rights to invoice them.

If not you can either try force them to remove it, or at least give you credit for it.

Kintarō Hattori

AnCatDubh wrote: »

I thought that fotopedia needed you to upload a submission which would then be considered by the community as to whether appropriate or not.

Have they become a flickr trawler???

I wasn't even aware of the site until a short while ago.

KarmaGarda wrote: »

Well, if they make money out of the site it is published on then you are within your rights to invoice them.

If not you can either try force them to remove it, or at least give you credit for it.

I don't think the second site does make money, it seems to be just a photo gallery.

OK I've changed permissions to 'All Rights Reserved', I think that's the correct license isn't it?

KarmaGarda

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

I don't think the second site does make money, it seems to be just a photo gallery.

Bit of a pickle so. Your rights on the image are stated as follows:

You are free:

• to copy, distribute, display, and perform the work

Under the following conditions:

• Attribution — You must give the original author credit.
  Attribute this work:
  
  What does "Attribute this work" mean?
  The page you came from contained embedded licensing metadata, including how the creator wishes to be attributed for re-use. You can use the HTML here to cite the work. Doing so will also include metadata on your page so that others can find the original work as well.
  
  
• Non-Commercial — You may not use this work for commercial purposes.
• No Derivative Works — You may not alter, transform, or build upon this work.

KarmaGarda

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

OK I've changed permissions to 'All Rights Reserved', I think that's the correct license isn't it?

That's probably best yeah.

Kintarō Hattori

KarmaGarda wrote: »

Bit of a pickle so. Your rights on the image are stated as follows:

You are free:

• to copy, distribute, display, and perform the work

Under the following conditions:

• Attribution — You must give the original author credit.
  Attribute this work:
  
  What does "Attribute this work" mean?
  The page you came from contained embedded licensing metadata, including how the creator wishes to be attributed for re-use. You can use the HTML here to cite the work. Doing so will also include metadata on your page so that others can find the original work as well.
  
  
• Non-Commercial — You may not use this work for commercial purposes.
• No Derivative Works — You may not alter, transform, or build upon this work.

Hmnn none of them really say that you can't use it anywhere else.

KarmaGarda

As far as I'm aware, under the original copyright, they could use it as long as they give you credit for the image. And as long as they were not using it on a commercial website

DaireQuinlan

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

OK I've changed permissions to 'All Rights Reserved', I think that's the correct license isn't it?

You realise you can't retroactively change the license on the photo for those who are already using it, right ?
IE fotopedia are perfectly within their rights to continue using your shots under the CC license that they were licensed under when they got them. Licensing is done on a usage basis in this regard.

-edit-
Forgot to mention this, they can also distribute your shots themselves under the same CC license. So you could find those shots turning up in perpetuity in different places, and as long as the usage is correct, its completely legal.

Kintarō Hattori

DaireQuinlan wrote: »

You realise you can't retroactively change the license on the photo for those who are already using it, right ?
IE fotopedia are perfectly within their rights to continue using your shots under the CC license that they were licensed under when they got them. Licensing is done on a usage basis in this regard.

Yeah I had thought that alright but no harm in changing it now for future situations. I'm not annoyed that they are using it, it just would have been nice if they had asked.

DaireQuinlan

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Yeah I had thought that alright but no harm in changing it now for future situations. I'm not annoyed that they are using it, it just would have been nice if they had asked.

I realise you put them under a CC license by mistake, but in normal circumstances sticking something under a CC license means that you don't care whether or not someone asks. Thats the whole point of the license. So fotopedia aren't doing anything untoward here.

Kintarō Hattori

DaireQuinlan wrote: »

I realise you put them under a CC license by mistake, but in normal circumstances sticking something under a CC license means that you don't care whether or not someone asks. Thats the whole point of the license. So fotopedia aren't doing anything untoward here.

Well you live and learn, I'm still new to all this so I won't forget for next time! Plus I'm delighted that you gave me a fair response instead of being sarky, which I had half expected.......... :pac:

Fionn

you put stuff on the internet - it'll get used

ask adobe!!!

Kintarō Hattori

Alright the c'nuts (not fotopedia) have uploaded two new images since I asked them to remove the first image. I've emailed them and they've not responded. What would the next step be, to contact the company hosting the website?

smelltheglove

I had a similar situation to your first problem and they were removed after I contacted them.

In the second case, invoice them for each image they are using, I expect they now think 'feck him we'll use it' so invoice them for licensing with no limit on time, nice and expensive. Put interest also for the time being used without permission, bill as much as possible. They'll soon learn their lesson.

smelltheglove

Ok guys, just today some of my recent pics have been linked to what seems like a porn website. There are links but my pictures are all rights reserved and I do not appreciate them being displayed on a site such as this. www.theelectricreview.com I can't find any contact details so if anyone here knows how to trace them please pm me.

Kintarō Hattori

smelltheglove wrote: »

Ok guys, just today some of my recent pics have been linked to what seems like a porn website. There are links but my pictures are all rights reserved and I do not appreciate them being displayed on a site such as this. www.theelectricreview.com I can't find any contact details so if anyone here knows how to trace them please pm me.

Hopefully this helps:

http://www.whoishostingthis.com/theelectricreview.com


Like yourself the problem I'm having is with a less than desireable site. I'm fairly sure sending them an invoice will do no good at all. Using the website above I checked who was hosting them. I wonder if I contact the hosting company, inform them nicely, will they put any pressue on whoever runs the site?

smelltheglove

Ok guys, I went into privacy & permissions and turned off api searches. After a few minutes the images disappeared from the site, originally one of my images was on nearly every page under the beautiful girls titles, they used all my most recent shots. There were childrens images there too so I notified the owners of those images and told them how to turn the api search off.

i ahve also notified the hosting company who say they will look into it immediately, I requested they contact me with info on a resolution and they said they will try. This was done via lifechat.

mehfesto2

One of my pics is being used on The Kooks' website without permission. And it's labelled 'All Rights Reserved'.

They must be in the wrong surely?

KarmaGarda

mehfesto2 wrote: »

One of my pics is being used on The Kooks' website without permission. And it's labelled 'All Rights Reserved'.

They must be in the wrong surely?

Yes they are! I would definitely invoice them for that. Make them backpay from since they took it too. Then when they pay that (because they have to) invoice them again for future use of the photo.

mehfesto2

Really?

Is it that serious? How would I go about invoicing them if Im not a business?

KarmaGarda

It's as serious as you want to make it to be honest. I took a quick look and I see it's in the "fans" section and they have linked flickr streams on the left. At the end of the day, there is a copyrighted image on their website (which is, in practice, marketing them as a band, so is therefore commercial). Why should they get a photographer for free? They're a successful band and surely can afford to pay for photographs, never mind illegally using them.

On the other hand, if you're looking to get into event photography you could possibly use this as bargaining material to get your foot in the door. That's pretty unlikely though I reckon. Not sure how you would use it etc.

At the end of the day it's up to you, but it's pretty cheeky of them to have copyrighted photographs on their website for free. I presume you've paid for their albums?

KarmaGarda

Missed a question. How would you go about invoicing them... good question actually if you're not already in the business. Not sure if there's an intermediate company that photographers use? I know there's companies like getty and the like, but doubt they'd deal with situations like this

Snap Happy

Newbie here with stupid question so bear with me.

I only have my picture on PIX.ie is there a setting there when uploading?
Is there a setting I can change now?
Or is this site ok?


Thanks in advance

Masada

I did just what the OP did, googled my flickr name and i came up with a site that has loads of my stuff, im not sure if its flickr linked though? anyone know of this site?

http://fiveprime.org/hivemind

smelltheglove

@Mehfesto

To invoice them simply create an invoice from a template, an invoice number and fill out the details. When you earn you are meant to claim earnings, at the end of the year you fill in a form for the tax man stating what you have earned, i.e. main job with breakdown of taxes etc and then second job is photography. As I am married and hubbie has all the tax credits I have to do this in his name, its actually not hard to do, just keep receipts for all you expenditure (if thats the word) and deduct from all your 'legitimate' business if ya get me. If you do it well you may not have earnt very much at all;) and not need to pay any taxes.

smelltheglove

I did the same after finding my images on the dodgy site as posted in pg2 here and came up with a fair few sites like this. I think that is linked to flickr just as a few were, most of them were old photos and have been up for ages and I have overlooked them as they seem to be galleries rather than businesses, I even found one on a website headed hot celebrities, the pic was just some kid guitarist in a local band who played supprt for my husband one night. Strange.

ttcomet

"http://fiveprime.org/hivemind" is just a very fancy site using the Flickr API just turn of the api usage as outlined by Smelltheglove and your images should disappear from it. They have done nothing wrong, so sadly no lawsuits for you

BTW, you can charge what ever you want to someone who has infringed your copyright. If it gets to the point where you are going to court their solicitor will/should advise them that the case is indefensible and just to pay you.

Have a look at this recent case in the UK involving Getty.

And read this very long thread as an example of why you should ignore all internet forum advice (especially mine) and why you should not mess with someone that knows what they are talking about.

Kintarō Hattori

I got a response back from the hosting company:

Hello,

Thank you for your email. Due to company policies, in cases like this, we
can't shut down, suspend our customer or take any further action without a
valid court order.
In order to investigate this case any further, we ask you to provide us with a
valid court order from either EU or the USA.
If we receive a court order from you, we will of course investigate this case
and take action asap.

That's disappointing. I can easily prove they are my images and shouldn't be there. Hmnnn where to go from here. Does anyone have any suggestions?

KarmaGarda

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

I got a response back from the hosting company:



That's disappointing. I can easily prove they are my images and shouldn't be there. Hmnnn where to go from here. Does anyone have any suggestions?

You seem to be talking to the web hosting company as opposed to the guys hosting the photo? If you know the name of the company who put it up, invoice them for use of your photo without due credit and permission for the period they have it up. And let them know that if they wish to keep using it from here on it will cost them more money as the image is now copyrighted.

KarmaGarda

The key sentence of the thread... "INVOICE THEM!!"

Kintarō Hattori

KarmaGarda wrote: »

The key sentence of the thread... "INVOICE THEM!!"

I mentioned a few posts back that I'm absolutely certain invoicing them will come to nothing. From what I can gather it's not a company who setup the website, it would appear to be the effort of an individual. He/they will most likely ignore any invoice as they have done the two emails I've sent them.

KarmaGarda

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

I mentioned a few posts back that I'm absolutely certain invoicing them will come to nothing. From what I can gather it's not a company who setup the website, it would appear to be the effort of an individual. He/they will most likely ignore any invoice as they have done the two emails I've sent them.

Fair enough if you don't think it will work. My advice still stands. Money talks and all that.

ttcomet

I would try sending an invoice first, maybe they will pay it. Is there a real address anywhere on the site? A registered letter to that address will have more weight if it goes to court.

If you want to proceed after that I would strongly recommend contacting a lawyer that specialises in IP work. The law society can give you contact details for one. If the site is hosted abroad you may have to contact the law society of the relevant country to get some advice.

If the site is in America maybe look into sending a DMCA take down notice.

Kintarō Hattori

ttcomet wrote: »

I would try sending an invoice first, maybe they will pay it. Is there a real address anywhere on the site? A registered letter to that address will have more weight if it goes to court.

If you want to proceed after that I would strongly recommend contacting a lawyer that specialises in IP work. The law society can give you contact details for one. If the site is hosted abroad you may have to contact the law society of the relevant country to get some advice.

If the site is in America maybe look into sending a DMCA take down notice.

Hmnnn I'm not familiar with anything legal whatsoever but I can imagine having to go to all this hassle it could be rather costly? It just may not be worth it.

Thanks for the excellent advice.

AnCatDubh

Hello,

Thank you for your email. Due to company policies, in cases like this, we
can't shut down, suspend our customer or take any further action without a
valid court order.
In order to investigate this case any further, we ask you to provide us with a
valid court order from either EU or the USA.
If we receive a court order from you, we will of course investigate this case
and take action asap.

I don't know the answer to this but is there a regulatory framework under which hosting companies operate that you could raise it with, or does it now go strictly legal?

You see part of the problem I guess is the effort that is required to resolve this for you. It appears to be a long and tortuous route that needs to be taken. Fair play to you for sticking with it. It obviously has significance with you. It is a pity that there isn't something pan europe or globe that you could call on - some sort of arbitration process.

It is really one of the great faults and beauties of the openness of the web. Unfortunately people abuse that beauty and it turns into a fault which is why we end up discussing it here and elsewhere.

smash

All of these are my photos, lifted from my Flickr without my permission http://www.rpmreviews.com/lamborghini/2000-lamborghini-diablo-vt/

KarmaGarda

You know the drill. INVOICE TH... gah, whatever





:pac:

LostinBlanch

Hi Slightly off topic (or maybe not) but isn't there some software embedded into your photos that tells you where they are being used on different sites?

Is there something similar for videos I wonder?

Kintarō Hattori

KarmaGarda wrote: »

You know the drill. INVOICE TH... gah, whatever





:pac:

Invoicing is all well and good if the person makes a living from their website, if it's a company etc. As in the case of the poster above and in regards to my own situation the websites don't appear to be money making or run by a company. They appear to be amateur run/setup etc.

Did you have a look at the RPM site the poster linked to above? It offers wallpaper of various cars. Hardly a site that makes money/is likely to pay attention to your invoice.

steve06 wrote: »

All of these are my photos, lifted from my Flickr without my permission http://www.rpmreviews.com/lamborghini/2000-lamborghini-diablo-vt/

Have you been in contact with them steve?

KarmaGarda

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Invoicing is all well and good if the person makes a living from their website, if it's a company etc. As in the case of the poster above and in regards to my own situation the websites don't appear to be money making or run by a company. They appear to be amateur run/setup etc.

Did you have a look at the RPM site the poster linked to above? It offers wallpaper of various cars. Hardly a site that makes money/is likely to pay attention to your invoice.

Doesn't matter if they aren't making money. If I had a website and I wanted to have a song playing on the home page I would have to pay for that song. If I wanted a particular web template that was copyrighted and had a price I'd have to pay for it. If I wanted to use a certain forum template that was copyrighted and had a price I'd have to pay for it. Why should photos suddenly work any different?

Kintarō Hattori

KarmaGarda wrote: »

...Why should photos suddenly work any different?

I'm not saying it should, I completely agree with you. What I am saying is that a site that's run by one person or a small group of individuals isn't going to be aware or even care about copyright. There is a huge attitude of 'it's the internet/it's free' and they don't care. As stated I emailed the site I am having a problem with and was ignored. I would imagine it is probably the same story with Steve.

Unlike a company these people have relatively little to lose and don't care about our copyright. Therefore sending them an invoice is simply a waste of time.

KarmaGarda

As I said, fair enough if that's your opinion, I won't argue. I disagree with you, but however you wish to proceed is up to you. I can only offer advice.

smash

I haven't emailed them yet, I'm going to though. It wouldn't have bothered me too much if they were linked, but they've actually been removed from flickr and uploaded to their server.

Kintarō Hattori

Well fair play to the site, it took them a while but they answered my mail saying that they had removed the image. Just after sending them the original mail two more images appeared and I sent a mail mentioning these too and they obliged by removing them.

A good result in the end. :pac:

DK32

Glad you got it sorted.