Patton Flyer (mod warning post #404) SEE POST #659 ALSO

JHMEG

paulm17781 wrote: »

Are you disputing that Mercedes make excellent quality vehicles? :rolleyes:

If back axles falling out is acceptable, then I'm not:D

Mercedes started building to a budget with the W220 and W163, both truly appalling from a quality perspective. Mercedes is not the symbol of quality it once was.

SandyfordGuy wrote:

The way you were going on you'd think it was a Skoda.

That would be seen as a good thing. Skoda workers seem to take pride in what they do and produce excellent quality products, consistently ranking up there with the Japanese.

SandyfordGuy

JHMEG wrote: »

If back axles falling out is acceptable, then I'm not:D

As I said, the model involved bears no relevance to the models being discussed in this post. and I doubt the model involved was a Mercades Benz bus totally. The Setra's are totally Daimler parts, both body and chassis.

It's like saying one Dublin Bus had a fire when on the 747 therefore we shouldn't use Dublin Bus at all because all of their vehicles are a death trap. It's nonsense and it is pathetic that the likes of you have to bring it down to this level.

Just a random quote I found on the web:

Describing the safety record of Mercedes-Benz, What Car? said the brand was "a specialist" in this area, adding: "Mercedes’ approach to safety is unequalled."

JHMEG

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

As I said, the model involved bears no relevance to the models being discussed in this post. and I doubt the model involved was a Mercades Benz bus totally. The Setra's are totally Daimler parts, both body and chassis.

It's like saying one Dublin Bus had a fire when on the 747 therefore we shouldn't use Dublin Bus at all because all of their vehicles are a death trap. It's nonsense and it is pathetic that the likes of you have to bring it down to this level.

Just a random quote I found on the web:

I'm beginning to suspect you're a shill.

You are denying the facts: Mercedes do not produce the same quality products they once did.

Here's a random fact for you: The ML class ranked 142nd out of 142 models in the Top Gear car survey.

Time Magazine: Can Mercedes Be a Star Again?

SandyfordGuy

Nice of you to dig out a five year old article.

Whether Mercedes quality has or has not declined is merely an opinion, in addition any articles is the opinion of the writer, facts are things that can be backed up with evidance, not opinion.

For example, if I think Patton's service is a rip off, that is an opinion, not a fact, but once again people seem to have problems seperating the two things.

At the end of the day it is all rather childish and once again I see that Patton's supporters are accusing anyone who does not share the views as being a troll, a shill or an insider. It shows a lack of maturity.

Whilst we are talking about awards, some for you that are more recent:
http://www.evobus.co.uk/inter-evobus-uk/0-656-446828-1-1297575-1-0-0-0-0-1-8290-446828-0-0-0-0-0-0-0.html
http://www.evobus.co.uk/inter-evobus-uk/0-656-1266420-1-1245220-1-0-0-0-0-1-8290-446828-0-0-0-0-0-0-0.html
http://www.evobus.co.uk/inter-evobus-uk/0-656-446828-1-1079853-1-0-0-0-0-1-8290-446828-0-0-0-0-0-0-0.html

And to crush the invalid safety argument the award from the EU for it:
http://www.evobus.co.uk/inter-evobus-uk/0-656-1266420-1-1241566-1-0-0-0-0-1-8290-446828-0-0-0-0-0-0-0.html

They have big customers too
http://www.evobus.co.uk/inter-evobus-uk/0-656-446828-1-1152930-1-0-0-0-0-1-8290-446828-0-0-0-0-0-0-0.html

And we will leave it there for today

JHMEG

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

Whether Mercedes quality has or has not declined is merely an opinion

It is not opinion, it is fact.

Consult any of the reviews comparing reliability with their peers. Mercedes is one of the worst.

Worst 10 makes in the UK:

1 JEEP 231.09
2 PORSCHE 221.39
3 LANDROVER 213.73
4 ALFA ROMEO 158.4
5 CHRYSLER 155.61
6 JAGUAR 146.13
7 AUDI 142.35
8 MG 131.08
9 MERCEDES 129.89
10 SAAB

Ham'nd'egger

JHMEG wrote: »

It is not opinion, it is fact.

Consult any of the reviews comparing reliability with their peers. Mercedes is one of the worst.

Worst 10 makes in the UK:

1 JEEP 231.09
2 PORSCHE 221.39
3 LANDROVER 213.73
4 ALFA ROMEO 158.4
5 CHRYSLER 155.61
6 JAGUAR 146.13
7 AUDI 142.35
8 MG 131.08
9 MERCEDES 129.89
10 SAAB

If Patton is really going to do door to door service perhaps he might be interested in this list of cars. In the meantime, Aircoach will operate using buses

paulm17781

So Toyota are of the most reliable... Did they not have a massive safety recall this year?

paddyland

I thought this was an intelligent debate about a private bus operator in south Dublin, not a Motors thread about the reliability of various car brands. Which of you juveniles has ever driven a bus or knows the first thing about buses? Both Patton's and Aircoach vehicles are perfectly roadworthy and acceptable, or the DOE would put them off the road. Back on topic, please.

dub_commuter

JHMEG is talking about cars to detract from the fact that he cannot find any argument about Setra or Daimler buses so is bringing some completely unrelated topics into it because he has a vested interest which is quite clear to everyone who is neutral.

The real issue right now is that Patton's drivers are claiming that the 746 has been forced off the route as well as them and his new man of the people philosphy is he will not be bullied the same way that Dublin Bus has been which is why he is going and Dublin Bus have given in.

Of course the fact that it has nothing to do with Aircoach and was a commercial and business decision taken by Dublin Bus but it is being potrayed as otherwise with claims that drivers in Donnybrook and Dublin Bus as a whole supports his company and will help out in the fight against the enemy.

JHMEG

paulm17781 wrote: »

So Toyota are of the most reliable... Did they not have a massive safety recall this year?

Spot who didn't read up before posting! Toyota aren't the most reliable - Suzuki, Honda and Mazda are ahead.

paddyland wrote:

I thought this was an intelligent debate about a private bus operator in south Dublin, not a Motors thread about the reliability of various car brands. Which of you juveniles has ever driven a bus or knows the first thing about buses?

Buses and cars share no technology then? Looking at a manufacturer as a whole gives you an indication, as a whole, of what they are like.

paddyland wrote:

Both Patton's and Aircoach vehicles are perfectly roadworthy and acceptable, or the DOE would put them off the road. Back on topic, please.

Now you see there I have a problem. That Mercedes bus in Offaly involved in that horrific accident had just passed its DOE test...

dub_commuter wrote: »

JHMEG is talking about cars to detract from the fact that he cannot find any argument about Setra or Daimler buses so is bringing some completely unrelated topics into it because he has a vested interest which is quite clear to everyone who is neutral.

Stop talking shít. The shills on here are blowing off about Merc being great when clearly they're not. Any fool can see that.

SandyfordGuy

I see we are on to reliability now that the safety argument has been proven invalid and not only that we are comparing cars now and saying that somehow they bear a resemblance to buses despite the fact they are structually completely different.

Toyota has been said have had a huge recall due to safety issues yet the list claims they are more reliable? I'd rather have a safe than a reliable unsafe one.

The 746 stuff I would say is complete bull and trying to claim they have the support of DB, is downright misleading as well and yet another case of Patton putting propaganda out there to try and help his case.

paddyland

JHMEG wrote: »

Buses and cars share no technology then? Looking at a manufacturer as a whole gives you an indication, as a whole, of what they are like.

Now you see there I have a problem. That Mercedes bus in Offaly involved in that horrific accident had just passed its DOE test...

I drive Mercedes buses for a living. They are excellent vehicles, designed for the job in hand. What the hell do you know about Mercedes buses other than what you Google? Will you kindly stop dragging this thread off topic, you have turned an interesting debate into a juvenile slagging match.

dub_commuter

JHMEG wrote: »

Spot who didn't read up before posting! Toyota aren't the most reliable - Suzuki, Honda and Mazda are ahead.

They're fourth though, a highly unsafe vehicle batch that had to be recalled makes it fourth in the ist,means the list is highly suspect.

Buses and cars share no technology then? Looking at a manufacturer as a whole gives you an indication, as a whole, of what they are like.

So if I go down to Dunne's and buy somthing which is horrible it means all the food in their shop is horrible?

Now you see there I have a problem. That Mercedes bus in Offaly involved in that horrific accident had just passed its DOE test...

All Mercs are bad I agree, hence why nearly all chauffer cars are Mercs, why do you think this might be? As I said if you have an example of a Setra 415 series vehicle having a questionable safety record come out and show us a copy of the article, until then quit the silly games.

I would also lik to see a link to the article with this bus and the picture of the bus involved. Did you know Patton's bus use Mercedes chassis that is quite cheap, and it did not sell very well leading to the fact the main company who bodied it in coach form went bust because people were so unimpressed with their product.

Stop talking shít. The shills on here are blowing off about Merc being great when clearly they're not. Any fool can see that.

No, if the Mercs were so poor why would there be so much demand for one for executive cars, if Honda and Suzuki are so great why are there hardly any of them on the streets?

JHMEG

dub_commuter wrote: »

No, if the Mercs were so poor why would there be so much demand for one or executive cars,

Despite the survey results you're suggesting they're better-built than Suzuki or Honda. Hmmm. Ok.

paddyland

JHMEG wrote: »

Despite the survey results you're suggesting they're better-built than Suzuki or Honda. Hmmm. Ok.

Motors - That Way --->

paulm17781

JHMEG wrote: »

Spot who didn't read up before posting! Toyota aren't the most reliable - Suzuki, Honda and Mazda are ahead.

Spot people in glass houses throwing stones.

paulm17781 wrote:

So Toyota are of the most reliable... Did they not have a massive safety recall this year?

Victor

Um, can we vaguely stick to the topic. I you want to compare bus quality or car quality, start another thread.

SandyfordGuy

JHMEG has took this thread off topic several times, from reading back it seems last time it was about British companies and shareholders funds.

JHMEG

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

JHMEG has took this thread off topic several times, from reading back it seems last time it was about British companies and shareholders funds.

I thought this was a discussion forum - excuse me for mentioning relevant information.

AlekSmart

The real issue right now is that Patton's drivers are claiming that the 746 has been forced off the route as well as them and his new man of the people philosphy is he will not be bullied the same way that Dublin Bus has been which is why he is going and Dublin Bus have given in.

This new and irrelevant attempt to involve Dublin Bus needs to be put-to-bed fairly rapidly.

The 746 route from Dun Laoire to Dublin Airport is NOT under any threat of withdrawal.
There will be alterations under the Network Direct plan,but these will be enhancements rather than cutbacks.
I understand the current schedule will be extended somewhat to provide earlier and later services as well as slight en-route modifications to improve efficiency.

FLASH ! Just top prove how fluid the entire situation now is,I have just read the Network Direct Update,dated 03/06 and we now find that contrary to the initial ND plan the 746 is to be discontinued.


This is I believe a mistake as the route only required some definition and marketing to make it successful.

The 746`s essential problem was the company`s inability to decide what it was....a direct Airport connection,a filler for the 46A southbound or the 16A northbound...all we required was effective and clear management of the route.

The decision by the Patton Flyer people to suggest the 746`s demise is related to their own situation is wide of the mark however.

The 746 is most certainly NOT a direct competitor for either the Patton Flyer OR Aircoach,never has been,is not now,and never will be.

The 746 appeals to a very different and hugely price-conscious passenger who is not under time-constraints or has comfort/luxury issues.

The reality of the Airport Service issue is that ALL modes of Public Transport serving it are suffering from the effects of the Economic Depression.

Dublin Airports growth has hit the buffers in terms of both Passengers transiting and of employee movements.

The observations made here all appear to be based upon the number of passengers spotted on a Patton/Aircoach vehicle at any single moment,usually in Dun Laoire or Dalkey.

Neither location will provide more than a very rough indication of an end-to-end usership.

As it currently stands,it appears Aircoach management are "satisfied" with the ongoing progress of the Dalkey route and I would suspect it will be allowed to bed down for at least a year before any large scale review is undertaken.

Mr Patton,unfortunately has burned virtually all of his bridges in terms of legality,and his options may well be narrowing rapidly,but his responses are entirely his own responsibility.

Fratton Fred

Does anyone actually use the 746 to get to the airport from DL?

AlekSmart

Does anyone actually use the 746 to get to the airport from DL?

Yep,Fratton Fred some do....admittedly a few.

They tend to be either OAP`s out for a bit of a ramble or Studentey Backpacker types and of course..Australians,who tend to actively seek out the lowest available cost for their journey.

My point is there IS a customer demand out there,but you cannot market something which you refuse to define... :rolleyes:

Cookie_Monster

746 is being axed,its on the website.

Fratton Fred

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

746 is being axed,its on the website.

I'm not surprised.

The 746 took an hour and a half to get to the airport, much better to get the Express version that only took 90 minutes ;-)

Seriously though, there should be a fast Airport to Connolly bus to pick up from the station and Luas and that's all you need from the coast.

KC61

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I'm not surprised.

The 746 took an hour and a half to get to the airport, much better to get the Express version that only took 90 minutes ;-)

Seriously though, there should be a fast Airport to Connolly bus to pick up from the station and Luas and that's all you need from the coast.

There is already - the 747 goes to/from Busaras.

Calina

This thread is starting to depress me.

Either it is possible to have an adult and constructive discussion on the subject of bus services or it is not. On the evidence of this thread, the balance of probability is against.

I might consider a little leeway on the subject most times but when the discussion descends into puerile he said/she said with shill accusations being flung around and the argument descending into who has bought better buses, the chances are the discussion might just be dead in the water.

I've had a bunch of reported posts from this thread today. I have reviewed the last few pages of this thread and frankly it makes me cry inside.

If I see any more messing in this thread, bans and potential thread closures will ensue.

Do I make myself clear? I want to make it particularly clear to any new posters around that I do mean business.

There are already several mod warnings in this thread. I will ban anyone who ignores this one and if the thread descends into another bit of chaos, I will close the thread.

patrickbrophy18

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

746 is being axed,its on the website.

It doesn't surprise me given that it is now inferior to the Dalkey Aircoach service in terms of both comfort and speed. Not to mention, the Sandyford, Loughlinstown and Greystones Aircoach services. That's four against one right there. I do however, feel quite sorry for those living on York Road, Mounttown Road Lower, Monkstown Farm, Abbey Road and Kill Lane who availed of this service. Bar these roads, Aircoach do pretty much cover the rest of the 746 route albeit in a separate and more sensible manner.

KD345

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

It doesn't surprise me given that it is now inferior to the Dalkey Aircoach service in terms of both comfort and speed.... Aircoach do pretty much cover the rest of the 746 route albeit in a separate and more sensible manner.

I disagree. The 746 was never meant to compete with Aircoach. It is/was a standard stop-go city bus service that went to the airport. Aircoach is a high speed, high priced express bus service and excellent at what it does. The 746 is low floor, very cheap to use (€1.80) service which serves every stop along the way. Of course this may not suit everybody, but I believe there is a market for such a service, similar to the 16A.

It's a shame. There was once high hopes for the 746 to be a regular 24 hour bus service, but instead it's now being withdrawn.

KC61

I'd agree with KD345. The 746 happens to serve the airport, but it is also a local bus service linking the Stillorgan and Swords QBC.

patrickbrophy18

KC61 wrote: »

It is also a local bus service linking the Stillorgan and Swords QBC.

That is important and for that reason I won't dispute it. In fact, that's a major detail I overlooked and I appologize.:D