Patton Flyer (mod warning post #404) SEE POST #659 ALSO

AlekSmart

The 746 is low floor, very cheap to use (€1.80) service which serves every stop along the way. Of course this may not suit everybody, but I believe there is a market for such a service, similar to the 16A.

Very true KD345.

The deletion of the 746 is a very recent alteration to the Network Direct plan,as the original draft mentioned its retention and improvement all of which makes me somewhat concerned at the manner in which the Network Direct plan as a whole is being carried forward.

The 746 unfortunately suffered from a total lack of identity and focus as to its true purpose.

It could and should have been run as a limited-stop semi-express service with stops at Bakers Corner,Foxrock Church,Donnybrook,Leeson St,O Connell St,Drumcondra Railway Stn,Whitehall,The Omni Centre.

The last great hope for the 746 was a proposal to operate it on a 24 hr basis along with the number 7 when the Rock Road QBC opened for business.

However the idea disappeared quite rapidly despite rumours that permission had been secured to operate it.

Cookie_Monster

AlekSmart wrote: »

The 746 unfortunately suffered from a total lack of identity and focus as to its true purpose.

too true, most saw it simply as a 46a that went a little further.

It could and should have been run as a limited-stop semi-express service with stops at Bakers Corner,Foxrock Church,Donnybrook,Leeson St,O Connell St,Drumcondra Railway Stn,Whitehall,The Omni Centre.

Ideally thats how it should have been done, there was (is) a 46x that used to do prety much that. The 746 should have been a copy of this

The last great hope for the 746 was a proposal to operate it on a 24 hr basis along with the number 7 when the Rock Road QBC opened for business.
However the idea disappeared quite rapidly despite rumours that permission had been secured to operate it.

That would have worked, especially with the vastly improved speed achievable overnight. Airport to DL in around an hour or less for €2.20, can't argue with that!

AlekSmart

Ideally thats how it should have been done, there was (is) a 46x that used to do prety much that. The 746 should have been a copy of this

Yes Cookie_Monster,there is still a lonely single departure every morning at 0730 ex Dun Laoire.

It beggars belief that we cannot make a go of the746 as an affordable BUS route linking the South City to the Airport.

I would suggest that a Fergal Quinn or Michael O Leary (!) would have little difficulty recognizing the potential of this route......;)

SandyfordGuy

Aircoach have made some changes to their service
http://www.aircoach.ie/news.article.php?ID=230

Cookie_Monster

Nice to see a timetable getting fasster for once

Went past an Aircoach and a Patton today, both about the same no of passangers on them

with extra journeys on the half hour between 02:30 and 06:30

is this part of the licence cos I don't really see the demand for these half hourly service this early in the morning.

JHMEG

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

is this part of the licence cos I don't really see the demand for these half hourly service this early in the morning.

Summer demand?

Rock Steady Edy

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

Aircoach have made some changes to their service
http://www.aircoach.ie/news.article.php?ID=230

Why does the service hide under the banner of the Greystones service?

Unless you already knew about the service, you'd never know about it from the front page of the Aircoach website.

patrickbrophy18

Rock Steady Edy wrote: »

Why does the service hide under the banner of the Greystones service?

Unless you already knew about the service, you'd never know about it from the front page of the Aircoach website.

I know what you mean, the banner on the front page doesn't include or raise awareness of the existence of the Dalkey Aircoach service. Yeah, there are timetables and the odd travel update which mentions the Dalkey service. However, it should also be included in a yet to be updated banner.

Other than that though, I am glad to see that the minor timetable change has seen an increase in the speed of the service while the frequency remains the same. Also, I have seen it a lot recently in Dun Laoghaire and most of the time I have seen it carrying quite a few passengers. However, I have seen it empty a few times as well given that a Patton Flyer bus got in about 5 minutes ahead and carrying the passengers who otherwise would have availed of the Aircoach service. It is because of matters like this that I have started to see why the route licensing system is in place.

AlekSmart

Why does the service hide under the banner of the Greystones service?

Rock Stedy Edy,I think Aircoach are actually running the Dalkey as a spur of the Greystones Service,given that most of it`s routeing utilises the existing Greystones Stops.

It`s interesting also,that this pre-existing Aircoach route-infrastructure along the Rock Road is something which many posters cannot grasp when it comes to the Department of Transport`s "Offer" of a licence to the Patton Flyer.

Cookie_Monster

Rock Steady Edy wrote: »

Unless you already knew about the service, you'd never know about it from the front page of the Aircoach website.

apart from if you actually looked at the front page, it under the "latest news" part further down.

foggy_lad

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Nice to see a timetable getting fasster for once

Went past an Aircoach and a Patton today, both about the same no of passangers on them



is this part of the licence cos I don't really see the demand for these half hourly service this early in the morning.

there is demand for business flights to many destinations in europe that leave early and are covered by busses on the half hour from 3.30-7.30 inclusive and it is also a condition of the licence afaik

paddyland

AlekSmart wrote: »

Rock Stedy Edy,I think Aircoach are actually running the Dalkey as a spur of the Greystones Service,given that most of it`s routeing utilises the existing Greystones Stops.

It`s interesting also,that this pre-existing Aircoach route-infrastructure along the Rock Road is something which many posters cannot grasp when it comes to the Department of Transport`s "Offer" of a licence to the Patton Flyer.

The point is, that while any private operator could hypothetically apply for a route operating licence between Dalkey and the airport, only one operator, Aircoach, could apply for an economically viable operation. Any other operator who applied, would be restricted to a wholly uneconomical and unsustainable operation, whereby they could not stop along the rest of the route. This gives Aircoach a wholly unfair advantage in what should be a level playing field. Similarly around the city, private operators are welcome to apply for route licences, as long as they don't stop where Dublin Bus, or Aircoach, or any existing operator serves.

Therefore, going forward, there are only two operators who can viably operate economical routes, as they have stopping rights all along the length of their routes. This is madness. There is nothing wrong with multiple operators sharing bus stops. Any tendency towards buses 'chasing' each other for passengers could be dealt with through ordinary road traffic law, dangerous driving, etc. Patton was dealt a very raw deal by the DoT in his licence application. How he behaved thereafter is another issue, in which he ultimately faces being the loser.

The real issue is why Minister Dempsey ignores the gaping maw in bus licencing procedure, and allows a wholly unfair situation whereby one operator can apply for stopping rights all along a route, and another operator is prevented from same, leaving his licence application uneconomical and non viable. I mean we do have a Transport minister, don't we? You could be forgiven for doubting. I suppose he is too busy cutting ribbons on the latest toll road somewhere, anywhere. Buses don't sell Dáil seats.

steve-o

paddyland wrote: »

The real issue is why Minister Dempsey ignores the gaping maw in bus licencing procedure, and allows a wholly unfair situation whereby one operator can apply for stopping rights all along a route, and another operator is prevented from same, leaving his licence application uneconomical and non viable.

The current licensing scheme is rubbish, but I can understand why they don't want open competition on any routes - a free-for-all would benefit no-one in the long term.

But it seems that the current licenses are indefinite, meaning that any operator who gets onto a route now will keep it forever. Even if the licensing changes in the future, it will be impossible to take a route away from any established operator. Shouldn't all licenses be limited to a set number of years?

Victor

steve-o wrote: »

The current licensing scheme is rubbish, but I can understand why they don't want open competition on any routes - a free-for-all would benefit no-one in the long term.

Indeed and no operator would be willing to invest in a quality service in such a situation.

But it seems that the current licenses are indefinite, meaning that any operator who gets onto a route now will keep it forever. Even if the licensing changes in the future, it will be impossible to take a route away from any established operator. Shouldn't all licenses be limited to a set number of years?

If I have it right, under the NTA, current licences have 5-10 years to operate and will then expire.

devnull

paddyland wrote: »

The point is, that while any private operator could hypothetically apply for a route operating licence between Dalkey and the airport, only one operator, Aircoach, could apply for an economically viable operation. Any other operator who applied, would be restricted to a wholly uneconomical and unsustainable operation, whereby they could not stop along the rest of the route. This gives Aircoach a wholly unfair advantage in what should be a level playing field. Similarly around the city, private operators are welcome to apply for route licences, as long as they don't stop where Dublin Bus, or Aircoach, or any existing operator serves.

Patton was dealt a very raw deal by the DoT in his licence application. How he behaved thereafter is another issue.

Whilst I agree that the system to a large degree is flawed, Patton was dealt exactly the same hand that every operator up and down the country has for the last god knows how many years, so it's not as if Aircoach are getting some kind of special treatment for just them that nobody else gets, it's the same for all operators in the same situation for the reasons you outlined in the post.

Patton claims that he was cheated out of a license and that Aircoach were given favourable treatment. That's nonsense. They played by the same rules that every operator has done up and down the country, they themselves were a victim of these rules in the past, when they had numerous restrictions on their Belfast and Cork routes where certain stops were set down only, some pick up only, and some pick up but only if you go to the airport etc, so they've been there too.

Meanwhile whilst in Dalkey today I notice Aircoach have put signs up on their coach stops saying that drivers should turn the engine off when they are laying over, which hopefully should please some of the people who have been complaining about the noise.

dub_commuter

I hear that there have been a number of complaints about the standard of the Aircoach service and the broken TV screens onboard that hum a horrible sound all the time as they have been broken for many years and nobody has fixed them, in addition because First cannot get enough of the market they will be selling Aircoach off very shortly as they are losing money in this country and First is full of debt.

And Aircoach's official launch which has appeared all over the press and online media, no doubt because they thought they'd need to pay for something as the passenger numbers were so low.

15 new jobs created as Aircoach officially launches new route linking South Dublin to Airport

Thursday 1st July 2010: Aircoach, Ireland’s leading private bus and coach operator and provider of luxury coach services operating to and from Dublin Airport, has today officially launched a new route from Dalkey to Dublin Airport. Following the awarding of the licence by the Department of Transport, 15 new jobs have been directly created. The route will serve Dalkey, Glasthule, Dun Laoghaire, Monkstown and Blackrock and runs to Dublin Airport via the Port Tunnel and is scheduled to run over 21,000 times during the coming year. In 2009 Aircoach served a total of 1.7 million customers on its services to and from Dublin Airport.

Today’s announcement sees the creation of 15 full time jobs and the launch of a much needed high quality, value for money link between Dalkey and Dublin Airport. The new Dalkey route operates 58 services daily, seven days per week, offering departures 24 hours per day up to every 30 minutes on coaches with full air-conditioning and leather seating with extra legroom.

Speaking about the launch of the new route, Allen Parker, Aircoach’s Managing Director, said: “Aircoach is delighted to introduce the new twenty four hour high quality service between Dalkey and Dublin Airport and we are confident that the service will be of great benefit to the areas being covered. Our prices are very competitive and, as on all of our routes, children under the age of five and all free travel pass holders including OAP’s travel free of charge and we offer reduced rates for return tickets, Airport Staff and children under thirteen. We are looking forward to welcoming passengers on our coaches. ”

Passengers wishing to use the service can book online at www.aircoach.ie or purchase tickets from the coach driver on the day of their journey.

Apparently they had female staff members from Aircoach down there for the official launch, and Allen Parker was down there too posing on one of their Mercedes coaches

devnull

Those screens on Setra's were there in 2003 when such technology for GPS systems with screens must have been pretty new and not that hugely tested at the time, and from what I've heard wasn't the best suited to moving vehicles.

The new coaches have a much better GPS system with better screens installed in the last few weeks from what I have heard and before you get to each stop it gives you the stop name, what hotels are in the area, what attractions are in the area and where to catch the bus back to the airport from.

Ham'nd'egger

dub_commuter wrote: »

I hear that there have been a number of complaints about the standard of the Aircoach service and the broken TV screens onboard that hum a horrible sound all the time as they have been broken for many years and nobody has fixed them, in addition because First cannot get enough of the market they will be selling Aircoach off very shortly as they are losing money in this country and First is full of debt.

I assume you have a credible source for this:rolleyes:

dub_commuter

Nicola Shaw and Dave Kaye walked out of First within 24 hours of each other, they are the two main directors for their bus operations in the UK and Ireland, it is believed that they walked because of the mounting crisis at the company.

markpb

dub_commuter wrote: »

it is believed that they walked because of the mounting crisis at the company.

If you haven't posted in the Conflict of Interests thread by now, you really need to.

dub_commuter

If I had a conflict I would.

penexpers

Does it not sometimes happen that an official launch is held a few weeks after a service is running so that any kinks can be ironed out before it's splashed all over the media?

foggy_lad

Dub_commuter are you by any chance the bus eireann driver that was claiming JJ Kavanagh & sons were bankrupt last Saturday mornin in Carlow?

KC61

dub_commuter wrote: »

I hear that there have been a number of complaints about the standard of the Aircoach service and the broken TV screens onboard that hum a horrible sound all the time as they have been broken for many years and nobody has fixed them, in addition because First cannot get enough of the market they will be selling Aircoach off very shortly as they are losing money in this country and First is full of debt.

And Aircoach's official launch which has appeared all over the press and online media, no doubt because they thought they'd need to pay for something as the passenger numbers were so low.

Apparently they had female staff members from Aircoach down there for the official launch, and Allen Parker was down there too posing on one of their Mercedes coaches

Don't you just love these "barstool" "I heard this or that" reports.

For goodness sake please keep a sense of perspective here and stop this scaremongering. From where I sit that's all you have contributed to this thread - constantly posting "reported" negativity about Aircoach, while then often saying I don't agree with it myself. Well if you don't agree, don't post it!

I would much rather garner some hard facts about the two operations than read this sort of scaremongering nonsense. How about posting some actual loading info for both operators from somewhere north of Dun Laoghaire from where a real impression of loadings can be judged.

As for an official launch, it's perfectly normal to leave it for a few months to let possible glitches etc. be ironed out.

JHMEG

Why are people on here so touchy about Aircoach?

KC61

I'm not "touchy" about Aircoach, but there's a hell of a difference between posting unfounded rumours and actual facts. One individual has done nothing but keep posting things that "he heard", that may have no basis in fact.

As I've said several times here, I'd actually be interested in getting some decent reports on loads of both operators north of Dun Laoghaire which might give some indication as to how the operations are performing.

JHMEG

KC61 wrote: »

I'm not "touchy" about Aircoach,

Not talking specifically about you - seems if you get a fact wrong or repeat a rumour about Aircoach on this forum you'll get jumped on by a number of people, while it appears to be ok to say anything about pretty much any other company especially if it's one of the CIE companies or Patton.

devnull

Agree with what KC61 said completely, I think dub_commuter has a hidden agenda, as there is a lot of scaremongering.

Apparently Patton was supposed to be on TV tonight from what I have read elsewhere, is that true and if so what did he say?

dub_commuter

The official reports are that Patton is filling his coaches and Aircoach are not as seen in Dun Laghoaire last night, people will leave an hour early than they need to just so they can get the bi-hourly Patton instead of the Aircoach I know that may sit uncomfortably with some people but that is the truth.

The fact is that Aircoach never had any full time launch for any other routes and they did for this one because of the situation with Patton, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to work that one out does it, especially when they sell it on the fact they create 15 more jobs - come on!

With regards to JJ Kavanagh, then what can I say about them other than what has been said already, other than it would be sensible to use Bus Eireann instead of them, indeed some of you guys should know that Aircoach have strong relations with the Kavanagh empire.

Patton was on TV last night because he was defending his business from illegal taxis touting for business at his stops, which I think we all agree is a problem when an illegal taxi racket is stopping unhailed telling them the bus has broke down.

paulm17781

dub_commuter wrote: »

Patton was on TV last night because he was defending his business from illegal taxis touting for business at his stops, which I think we all agree is a problem

How is he any different?

I actually think taxi drivers should be allowed do this. If they're prepared to offer a competitive rate, what's the problem?