Patton Flyer (mod warning post #404) SEE POST #659 ALSO

devnull

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Lets face it, if you are a high end hotel, you would much rather promote Aircoach than the Flyer. It is a muh nicer way to travel.

The Royal Marine though is doing the other way around, even though both services stop outside there.

On a side note, I was on an aircoach that had to wait for a parking slot at the airport the other week. it looks to me as though aircoach are outgrowing the space available for them. Maybe they need to start staggering departure times at the airport to reduce the number of coaches there at any one time.

They recently moved the Belfast service from the airport arrivals area to the Coach park for this very reason. Whilst what you describes does happen from time to time, it's not that often.

Rock Steady Edy

devnull wrote: »

I noticed that Patton has now dropped Fitzpatrick's Castle hotel from his website timetable list. It seems the hotel are now promoting Aircoach on their website as the coach operator to use to get there, which must have been a blow to him, especially as it's in Dalkey.

The PF only had about 7 or 8 services a day to the Fitzpatrick anyway, so at some points in the day they'd be able to recommend the service and at other times they'd have to send people down to Dalkey, so you can see how reception might have got fed up with it. Add a 24 hour service and concessionary fares, and you can see why it's easier to recommend Aircoach.

I don't buy the large American company idea though as the reason for recommending Aircoach. Those Americans that venture to Ireland don't come here for more America.

devnull

I agree - it would not make sense to recommend Patton.

They may be going from the American angle or they may be not, I know at one point First advertised Aircoach in Dublin on the back of their timetables for Airport services in the UK, I don't know if they happen to do something similar for Americans, such as saying it's operated by the same people as Greyhound in America.

devnull

Patton flyer has now ceased trading:
http://www.thepattonflyer.ie

Message on their official website, hints at they will be making a comeback in future perhaps?

Run_to_da_hills

R.I.P Patton Flyer.

Cookie_Monster

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

R.I.P Patton Flyer.

rot in hell more like

KC61

devnull wrote: »

Patton flyer has now ceased trading:
http://www.thepattonflyer.ie

Message on their official website, hints at they will be making a comeback in future perhaps?

It would certainly sound as if he has another licence application in by the tone of the message.

Cookie_Monster

KC61 wrote: »

It would certainly sound as if he has another licence application in by the tone of the message.

he can have all the applications he wants, as long as this time he actually waits to get it before starting

devnull

Is it possible he has been offered another deal without such a long lead time as normal in exchange for ceasing his illegal service?

If so that begs the question of why is he not getting punishment, and is now getting fast tracked through the system after breaking the rules.

Surely that would make a mockery of everyone such as Swords Express who have had to wait it out for years.

And if he indeed did get a license for the airport service in a different shape, surely Aircoach would strongly consider legal action?

dub_commuter

The rumour I have heard is that Patton has lodged another application for the Dalkey route to Dublin Airport and is likely to get a favorable response.

Locals are touting a possible start date of November 1st, 1 day after the Aircoach license expires.

richard2010

Taken from: http://www.thepattonflyer.ie/

DalkeyResident

Nice to see our government have once more bullied our innovative community service providers into submission over the interests of those foreigners who are taking advantage of our country, I want Irish jobs for Irish people not Brits who brought this country to it's knees in the past.

Aircoach are a disgrace.

schemingbohemia

DalkeyResident wrote: »

Nice to see our government have once more bullied our innovative community service providers into submission over the interests of those foreigners who are taking advantage of our country, I want Irish jobs for Irish people not Brits who brought this country to it's knees in the past.

Aircoach are a disgrace.

Innovative = Illegal is that right?

bullied = enforcing the law

you have heard of the EU and freedom to trade haven't you? Aircoach are part of a publicly traded company with shareholders all over the world, but your blinkered "little irelander" view can't understand that. how many irish people actually worked on the patton flyer? not that it bothers me but if you're going to follow your own logic it should make you think twice - which would be twice more than you've already thought.

Cookie_Monster

DalkeyResident wrote: »

Nice to see our government have once more bullied our innovative community service providers into submission over the interests of those foreigners who are taking advantage of our country, I want Irish jobs for Irish people not Brits who brought this country to it's knees in the past.

Aircoach are a disgrace.

eh Aircoach are just as likely to employ Irish as Patton (who hired mostly eastern European btw). Aircoach are an Irish subsidiary of First, a UK based multinational with owners from all over the world, were originally an Irish company and set up by an ex-BE employee who is also Irish.

How is Patton innovative? He ran a bus along a route, like hundreds of other companies already have done except he did it illegally.

Why don't you take off those rose tinted specs and engage your brain before posting rubbish :rolleyes::mad:

foggy_lad

DalkeyResident wrote: »

Nice to see our government have once more bullied our innovative community service providers into submission over the interests of those foreigners who are taking advantage of our country, I want Irish jobs for Irish people not Brits who brought this country to it's knees in the past.

Aircoach are a disgrace.

it could be that aircoach were threatening to take legal action against the department who in turn may have wanted to recoup the loss from patton? that would be incentive enough for most to stop breaking the law!

as for patton it is very sad that the company is going to shut down but it really is not the fault of anyone except patton!

Run_to_da_hills

foggy_lad wrote: »

it could be that aircoach were threatening to take legal action against the department who in turn may have wanted to recoup the loss from patton? that would be incentive enough for most to stop breaking the law!

as for patton it is very sad that the company is going to shut down but it really is not the fault of anyone except patton!

I am sureit will be back again at something else, "Patton Flyer" is owned by Curtis Coaches, a car and bus hire company, I could hardly see them go bust.

AlekSmart

There may well be an interesting situation in hand if and when the Principles of the Patton Flyer make application for any new licences.

One of the many conditions which now must be satisfied is a requirement to be of "Good Standing",which in the past has been taken to mean in Financial terms.

However I now understand that this definition has broadened,which may well draw attention to an individual whose actions prompted a Minister of the Oireachtas to make a complaint directly to the Commissioner of An Garda Siochana.....We shall see.....;)

Fratton Fred

DalkeyResident wrote: »

Nice to see our government have once more bullied our innovative community service providers into submission over the interests of those foreigners who are taking advantage of our country, I want Irish jobs for Irish people not Brits who brought this country to it's knees in the past.

Aircoach are a disgrace.

Two points.

First, I have used both services quite a bit. I have only ever had Irish drivers on the Aircoach, but only ever eastern european's on the Patton Flyer.

Second, Brits make up a large proportion of the users of this service. Brit bashing isn't exactly going to help your arguement.

Cookie_Monster

Dalkey resident has only three posts, all giving out about aircoach on this route...

*waves

Hi Trevor

Run_to_da_hills

Sad day for Dalkey today. :mad:

Cookie_Monster

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Sad day for Dalkey today. :mad:

why, because a less frequent, more expensive, less comfortable bus company stopped running? Less traffic disruptions from badly parked buses now too. I'd have thought they'd all be delighted.

Run_to_da_hills

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

why, because a less frequent, more expensive, less comfortable bus company stopped running? Less traffic disruptions from badly parked buses now too. I'd have thought they'd all be delighted.

Edit, sad day for Ireland when a large foreign bus company stamps a small independant Irish bus company into the ground. :mad:

Cookie_Monster

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Edit, sad day for Ireland when a large foreign bus company stamps a small independant Irish bus company into the ground. :mad:

well if they had operated it legally it might not be an issue. but the typical Irish attitude of "shure its only a few auld laws" shone though whereas Aircoach followed the rules. And they are only a large multinational company because they were such a successful Irish company that they were taken over.

How and where exactly did Aircoach "stamp Patton into the ground"?

foggy_lad

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

well if they had operated it legally it might not be an issue. but the typical Irish attitude of "shure its only a few auld laws" shone though whereas Aircoach followed the rules. And they are only a large multinational company because they were such a successful Irish company that they were taken over.

How and where exactly did Aircoach "stamp Patton into the ground"?

must have been how they competed against patton for passengers on their route?

Cookie_Monster

foggy_lad wrote: »

must have been how they competed against patton for passengers on their route?

you mean how Aircoach were granted permission to run "their" route from the Airport to Dalkey, that Patton was illegally operating buses on with no permission or sanction from the Gardai or Dept of Transport?

foggy_lad

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

you mean how Aircoach were granted permission to run "their" route from the Airport to Dalkey, that Patton was illegally operating buses on with no permission or sanction from the Gardai or Dept of Transport?

yes of course! i hope i did not imply any wrongdoing on the part of aircoach who afaik are acting within the law in providing coach transport on this and all their routes!

Fratton Fred

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Edit, sad day for Ireland when a large foreign bus company stamps a small independant Irish bus company into the ground. :mad:

Aircoach are as foreign as Guinness is.

devnull

Patton lying to the press from the Irish times. Shame that our press are taking everything he says as hearsay rather than getting a comment from both sides or the department.

He said when he cut the buses to one every two hours in the evening, it resulted in a cut of staff by 50%. He now says that 20 jobs have gone.

This means that if he is telling the truth, 20 staff operated one extra bus for an extra 5 or so trips in each direction every day. That is incomprehensible Considering he seems to be driving the buses himself in the evening I would suggest he had 8-10 staff max in the last few months.

No doubt it is to try to eclipse the figure of 15 jobs that Aircoach created to stir up the atmosphere in Dalkey again. The fact that Aircoach are running a lot more services and use 15 staff, shows that Patton's claims he now had 20 staff, and 40 previously are out and out lies, he makes me sick.

Also it is amusing that he says he was told there was no need for the services because of the fact that the Greystones service covered the route when it was nothing to do with it.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0902/1224278051415.html

AN UNLICENSED bus service between south Dublin and the airport has announced the end of services, despite of campaigns to keep it going.

A notice on the Patton Flyer website yesterday thanked customers for their “unbelievable support” over the years since operations began in 2007, but said that “following a recent meeting with the Department of Transport, we have no choice but to cease services immediately” to protect the parent company and jobs in other services.

It is understood that up to 20 jobs are to be lost with the closure of the service which was provided by Curtis Transport Ltd.

The closure brings to an end a four-year battle by Dublin businessman and Trevor Patton of Curtis Transport Ltd to win a licence for his Dalkey to Dublin airport shuttle.

Services began in July 2007 with Mr Patton complaining he had been waiting for more than a year for a decision on a licence for the service from the Department of Transport.

The Patton Flyer started services from about 5am at a time when large numbers of staff working in Dublin airport and living in south Dublin had little choice but to use their cars to get to work.

The service utilised the Dublin Port Tunnel, significantly cutting travel time.
However, Minister for Transport Noel Dempsey was not impressed and in 2007 said he was referring the issue of a lack of a licence for the route to the Garda.

Mr Patton claimed he had been told by the Department of Transport there was no need for the service because the Aircoach Greystones service covered the route. He was granted a licence in 2009 but says he could not operate it as it contained too many restrictive clauses.

The department gave a licence for the route to Aircoach which began services this summer.

dub_commuter

Patton is just playing up to his side of the argument and saying exactly what his supporters want to hear, whether it is based upon reality or not.

At the end of the day after witnessing some vehicles loading the other day his supporters almost seem to be like a cult status, no matter what he says, however outrageous they will believe him as it fits with their own agendas.

The staff quote is an out and out lie, whilst the department of transport and aircoach are dignified by their silence, they really should be calling out Patton who is making out and out lies about them.

As for the press, as devnull stated, it shows you how poor quality they are when they publish an article based on zero research.

AlekSmart

But (Mr Patton) said that “following a recent meeting with the Department of Transport, we have no choice but to cease services immediately” to protect the parent company and jobs in other services.

Aha...the lines to read between....

What we need to know,perhaps via a FoI request (?) is the timing,nature and extent of that meeting plus the attendees.

I am also struck by this reference to the "parent company" and it`s wellbeing,surely a concern surfacing a trifle late in the day given the principals careful stewardship of a coach-and-four through the State`s Statute Books since the inception of his service.

This stinks of a rather typical move which the Irish Civil Service engages in from time to time when it`s resolution is challenged and it needs a period of calm on any given topic.

I think Cookie_Monster may be correct,in that First Group head-office had lost patience with this crowd (DoT) and had put their cards on the (Legal) Table.

The reluctance and inability of the Department of Transport to stand by it`s own Rules and Regulations is at the core of this issue and I suspect First may well have done a "due diligence" job on it`s options re suing their slack ass off in both Irish and European theatres.

In any properly run and monitored Public Transport system,Trevor Patton would never had the opportunity to operate a single Flyer journey and might even have been issuing Press Releases from behind bars...but,hey...This is Ireland...we`re different !!