What are your reasons for wanting/not wanting children?

Thought Bubble

What an intresting thread OP. I've had this discussion in real life with close friends (who also happen to be mothers) and it has turned out to be (suprisingly for me!) a very controversial topic. I'm always intrested in what others have to say about this. Particulary in anonymus forums where you might be more likely to be honest then in real life (me thinks anyways!).

Anyway, I have always very firmly fell into the 'no rugrats for me camp'. I am a very girlie girl in lots of ways, but I have never once 'imagined' my wedding, husband, house with white picket fence, 2.4 children and dog (well, maybe the dog!). It's JUST. NOT. ME. I honestly feel I would suffocatge in domesticity. I love my life way to much to make room for a child in it.

However, like another poster, I too have suffered from some very severe 'women's problems' over the past 2 years. I was diagnosed with very severe Endometriosis and it is unlikely (but not impossible) that I could ever concieve naturally. I was advised to start trying while I was still relatively young (I was 27 at the time, and eh, not a chance!).

My other option was to freeze my eggs. The logic being that 27 year old eggs would be more viable then say, 35 or 40 plus year old eggs.

It is the first time in my life that I have seriously had to confront my own long held beliefs in a non hypothetical way.

I chose to freeze them. Because who knows what life will bring. I don't currently plan on having children. But for me it's about choice. I mightnt plan on having children, but I certainly don't want my choice taken away.

And what if in 5 or 10 years time I change my mind? I'll be glad then I have 27 year old eggs in the freezer!

I can also honestly say now, that if by some weird miracle marvel I concieved, I would be keeping that child. I don't know if I could have answered that honestly 2 years ago.

And for anyone who's intrested - tokophobia is the fear of giving birth (I completly understand that!)

And did you know new mums can also suffer from PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder)! Army vets have been diagnosed with this after returning from war zones!!!!!!!!

Bubbles.

bronte

neuro-praxis wrote: »

However thinking about the future. When you're sixty, seventy, eighty, wouldn't you like a bustling family nearby?

Hell no! :eek:
It's a really dodgy reason to go down that route too.

Lollipops23

Have to say I'm one of those people who have always had the strong desire to have kids,as long as I can remember.

Without trying to offend anyone in the "not for me" camp, I just can't understand not wanting them. I thought the natural instinct was to want them, survival of the species and all that lark....

However, to each their own...

sam34

neuro-praxis wrote: »

However thinking about the future. When you're sixty, seventy, eighty, wouldn't you like a bustling family nearby?

firstly, having kids is no guarantee of having them still around when you age: they may die young, or f**k off to australia, fall in love there and never return.

secondly, i work as an old age psychiatrist, and i see countelss elderly people whose families do not want to be involved, for a variety of reasons. no doubt, some of those elderly people may have been incredibly difficult parents, and may not deserve much form their now-adult-children, but not all of them.

there are a lot of selfish people out there, who do not want to be burdened by elderly parents, and who will not tolerate those elderly parents inpinging on their lives.

i bet the parents never anticipated that when they were making sacrifices for their kids.

saywhatyouwish

I'm 19 so at the moment I don't really know what I want as regards children. I sometimes think theres no way I want to have children for all the selfish reasons listed above, less money, changed body etc.:rolleyes: I don't really worry about the messing up another person thing. However sometimes I think I would love to have children and grandchildren. I'm not very maternal and neither is my mum or grandmother but my boyfriends family is very different. I love his relationship with his grandparents. I know as an old lady I would love my little grandchildren visiting me. I believe it would keep my mind young. My boyfriend was also dead set against ever having children until I pointed out a few things to him.
1. I told him to look at the joy in his grandfathers face when his 7 year old grandson climbed onto his lap and started chatting to him.:) His grandparents take their grandchildren everywhere with them, My bf has his own room in their house for visiting, toys from when he was younger are still there for the younger grandchildren. They really are excellent grand parents.
2. He loves looking after his baby brother and is really good with him.
I think I probably will have children at some stage in the future... no need to make a decision for a few years:D

MissIT

Right now at 20 years old im happy living my life as a 20 year old, partying, sleeping in on the weekend living like a slob basically. Right now im far too immature to look after a child.

I know some day i want kids. I can't imagine the love u must feel for your kids and i want to experience that. I hope that day comes when i have a full time job and wont struggle to raise them. But thats selfish.
If i happened to get pregnant tomorrow i know the love i would have for my child would be just the same even if i did have to struggle financially.

My bf has a son and their love for each other is something so amazing i can't even describe it.

Little Acorn

I have an ideal in my head of the perfect family life.
Both parents in highly paid jobs that somehow conveniently have lots of holidays and time off to spend with the child.
Following all that advice you see on "21st Century Child",and "nanny 911" therefore raising a super intelligent,friendly emotionally well rounded child.
Providing child with art,music,dance or sport lessons which of course they would somehow be great at.
Child getting excellent grades in school,or else finding something else different/creative that they are brilliant at.
Rearing a child to have impeccable manners,and an excellent group of equally ambitious and successful friends.
Having a really good relationship with child so that they could tell me everything like a friend.
Going on family holidays,meals,and christmas together.
Have teenager that never dabbles in drugs,binge drinks or has sex before emotionally ready.
Receiving lots of love and respect in return.

However I am aware that all of the above could only be achieved in a fantasy world. Sure some family's might be lucky enough to have alot of the above but I seriously doubt anybody has all this fantasy perfection in their family,and I worry that I might be the type of person who would try to force this type of perfection to occur,and feel annoyed and very disappointed when things would inevitably go wrong.

My main concern though is that I think a child has the potential to destroy relationships.
My relationship with my boyfriend is very equal,we do most things together and I feel we have mutual respect for each other.
If we ever had a child together,the responsibility would have to be split EXACTLY 50-50.
However,from what I've noticed there always seems to be one parent who shoulders more of the responsibilty than the other. It just seems to be the natural way of things,and usually(though not always) that extra responsibility seems to lie with the mother.
It seems that there are always more nights out with the lads for the fathers than there is nights out for the girls with the mother.
It seems that when a child wakes,or is crying alot it is always the mother who is first to tend to the child.
It is usually the mother who takes time of work,whilst the father progresses in their career.
If a relationship ends,why is it always the mother who has to take the children??(I'm aware there are single fathers aswell,but they seem very much in the minority).
I think if a relationship broke up after children,I would NOT want to carry on being a single mum.
I watched a documentary about women who had left their children with their ex partners after a split,and continued on with their careers/lives whilst still keeping contact with their children(like thousands of men do everyday),
yet these women were completely demonised for their actions and lost their friends etc.
One woman who had mentioned her situation in a newspaper,was spat at on a train by another woman who recognised her from the article!
Why is it so socially acceptable for fathers to carry on with their lifes, and get called great fathers, for paying maintenance,and keeping up with visitation days,whilst it's completely taboo for mothers to do the same?

I'm assuming that it may be by choice that that it is mainly mother's who take a little bit more responsibility,less nights out,time of work and keeping the kids if there is a split and that perhaps it is some type of maternal feeling that I don't understand,and maybe never will.

Because at the minute,it is all the issues above that have me convinced that I do NOT want to have children.
I think my boyfriend and myself,would probably make a very good go at being parents,as we are both fairly good with children,and he is generally a very fair person so don't think he would ever "expect" me to take the most duties/responsibilities, I just feel that it is inevitable that it would happen to one of us.
I would always in the back of my mind that nomatter how happy we were,that if one day it all ended that it would be ME that was left to do the majority of work raising child,whilst he got to back to living a relatively carefree life.

I think that if I even got an inkling, that I was doing even a fraction more work raising the child,or missing out on more social time than him, I would become INCREDIBLY angry,bitter and resentful towards him,or what I fear most-towards the child,even though I know it wouldn't be their fault.

I'll never say never,as I can see the positives of children and have 2 nephews,a godson(boyf is godfather) and godson's brother who I adore and really enjoy being around.
I love the whole idea of family etc.,but unless there was some way of my fears being guaranteed not to happen,then I can't see it happening.

For me the possible(imo very likely) negatives,far outway the possible positives.
I am only 22 though,so cannot say what my mindset will be like when I'm 30.
I suspect I'll feel the same,as I have always had these opinions since about the age of 12,but nobody knows for sure.

metrovelvet

Little Acorn wrote: »

I have an ideal in my head of the perfect family life.
Both parents in highly paid jobs that somehow conveniently have lots of holidays and time off to spend with the child.
Following all that advice you see on "21st Century Child",and "nanny 911" therefore raising a super intelligent,friendly emotionally well rounded child.
Providing child with art,music,dance or sport lessons which of course they would somehow be great at.
Child getting excellent grades in school,or else finding something else different/creative that they are brilliant at.
Rearing a child to have impeccable manners,and an excellent group of equally ambitious and successful friends.
Having a really good relationship with child so that they could tell me everything like a friend.
Going on family holidays,meals,and christmas together.
Have teenager that never dabbles in drugs,binge drinks or has sex before emotionally ready.
Receiving lots of love and respect in return.

However I am aware that all of the above could only be achieved in a fantasy world. Sure some family's might be lucky enough to have alot of the above but I seriously doubt anybody has all this fantasy perfection in their family,and I worry that I might be the type of person who would try to force this type of perfection to occur,and feel annoyed and very disappointed when things would inevitably go wrong.

My main concern though is that I think a child has the potential to destroy relationships.
My relationship with my boyfriend is very equal,we do most things together and I feel we have mutual respect for each other.
If we ever had a child together,the responsibility would have to be split EXACTLY 50-50.
However,from what I've noticed there always seems to be one parent who shoulders more of the responsibilty than the other. It just seems to be the natural way of things,and usually(though not always) that extra responsibility seems to lie with the mother.
It seems that there are always more nights out with the lads for the fathers than there is nights out for the girls with the mother.
It seems that when a child wakes,or is crying alot it is always the mother who is first to tend to the child.
It is usually the mother who takes time of work,whilst the father progresses in their career.
If a relationship ends,why is it always the mother who has to take the children??(I'm aware there are single fathers aswell,but they seem very much in the minority).
I think if a relationship broke up after children,I would NOT want to carry on being a single mum.
I watched a documentary about women who had left their children with their ex partners after a split,and continued on with their careers/lives whilst still keeping contact with their children(like thousands of men do everyday),
yet these women were completely demonised for their actions and lost their friends etc.
One woman who had mentioned her situation in a newspaper,was spat at on a train by another woman who recognised her from the article!
Why is it so socially acceptable for fathers to carry on with their lifes, and get called great fathers, for paying maintenance,and keeping up with visitation days,whilst it's completely taboo for mothers to do the same?

I'm assuming that it may be by choice that that it is mainly mother's who take a little bit more responsibility,less nights out,time of work and keeping the kids if there is a split and that perhaps it is some type of maternal feeling that I don't understand,and maybe never will.

Because at the minute,it is all the issues above that have me convinced that I do NOT want to have children.
I think my boyfriend and myself,would probably make a very good go at being parents,as we are both fairly good with children,and he is generally a very fair person so don't think he would ever "expect" me to take the most duties/responsibilities, I just feel that it is inevitable that it would happen to one of us.
I would always in the back of my mind that nomatter how happy we were,that if one day it all ended that it would be ME that was left to do the majority of work raising child,whilst he got to back to living a relatively carefree life.

I think that if I even got an inkling, that I was doing even a fraction more work raising the child,or missing out on more social time than him, I would become INCREDIBLY angry,bitter and resentful towards him,or what I fear most-towards the child,even though I know it wouldn't be their fault.

I'll never say never,as I can see the positives of children and have 2 nephews,a godson(boyf is godfather) and godson's brother who I adore and really enjoy being around.
I love the whole idea of family etc.,but unless there was some way of my fears being guaranteed not to happen,then I can't see it happening.

For me the possible(imo very likely) negatives,far outway the possible positives.
I am only 22 though,so cannot say what my mindset will be like when I'm 30.
I suspect I'll feel the same,as I have always had these opinions since about the age of 12,but nobody knows for sure.

If you are into equality and freedom then dont have children. Parenting has nothing to do with equality, ask any mother or fathers rights activist. Its all landed on the mother.

And there are no guaratees. Its just the nature of the beast, as old as the ages.

shellyboo

metrovelvet wrote: »

If you are into equality and freedom then dont have children. Parenting has nothing to do with equality, ask any mother or fathers rights activist. Its all landed on the mother.

And there are no guaratees. Its just the nature of the beast, as old as the ages.

I don't really think relationships have anything to do with exact, 50-50 split, equality either. I don't think any relationship - parental, sibling, friendship, partners - could survive such a strict balance.

Whatever happened to compromise?

Khannie

I wish this thread would go away. It's full of hard line stances from otherwise rational people and frankly, as a parent and a father, I find some of the generalisations both ridiculously sweeping and upsetting.

liah

Khannie wrote: »

I wish this thread would go away. It's full of hard line stances from otherwise rational people and frankly, as a parent and a father, I find some of the generalisations both ridiculously sweeping and upsetting.

Don't like it, don't read it.

I haven't found the majority of the thread to be sweeping in its generalizations, and I don't see any of the points of view as upsetting as I understand everyone feels a different way and should not be looked down on for doing so.

Khannie

liah wrote: »

Don't like it, don't read it.

If only I had thought of that. :rolleyes:

liah wrote: »

I haven't found the majority of the thread to be sweeping in its generalizations, and I don't see any of the points of view as upsetting as I understand everyone feels a different way and should not be looked down on for doing so.

For the Nth time: I'm not looking down on anyone. The sweeping generalisations in this thread abound to be fair.

liah

Khannie wrote: »

If only I had thought of that. :rolleyes:



For the Nth time: I'm not looking down on anyone. The sweeping generalisations in this thread abound to be fair.

Where? I don't see any.

Novella

Khannie wrote: »

I wish this thread would go away. It's full of hard line stances from otherwise rational people and frankly, as a parent and a father, I find some of the generalisations both ridiculously sweeping and upsetting.

I think a lot of the comments in this thread are coming from young women. I'm not generalising here, well, I'm not trying to, but aged between 18-30 give or take, a lot of women are interested in socialising, their career, keeping their body in shape etc. Having a baby just isn't seen as a desirable thing to do. The age of a woman having her first child in this country is around 30 nowadays, as far as I am aware.

I'm not trying to suggest the opinions of younger women who are currently saying that no, kids are not for them aren't valid, they are but it is harder for someone who doesn't have children and is career orientated or whatever, to see the joy in them.

I'm only twenty so I am one of these young women I speak of but as I have been pregnant myself I think I can kinda understand both sides of this argument, for want of a better word.

Don't be upset though. I think you sound like a really great dad and your children have obviously brought immense happiness into your life. One of your earlier posts in here was so moving it almost made me cry!

Khannie

liah wrote: »

Where? I don't see any.

Perhaps that's because they support your position. They're everywhere.

Here's one for you:

Its all landed on the mother.

Sweeping generalisation much?

and another

a child has the potential to destroy relationships

I could meet that one with "drinking water is potentially lethal!"

and so on, and so on....

So anyway, I'm going to take your advice and bow out of this thread. I don't like doing that because it's a bit "screw you guys, I'm going home", but I've had enough. Time to take a break.

Edit: Novella; You're a legend.

liah

Khannie wrote: »

Perhaps that's because they support your position. They're everywhere.

Here's one for you:



Sweeping generalisation much?

and another



I could meet that one with "drinking water is potentially lethal!"

and so on, and so on....

So anyway, I'm going to take your advice and bow out of this thread. I don't like doing that because it's a bit "screw you guys, I'm going home", but I've had enough. Time to take a break.

Edit: Novella; You're a legend.

So... 2, out of how many?

Hardly "full" of generalizations.

Seems like the people on your side are making an awful lot more about how we'll "come around," and how we'll "grow out of it," that we're not right or horribly selfish and unusual if we just want to have ourselves and don't require kids, etc. Which is pretty damn infuriating.

shellyboo

liah wrote: »

So... 2, out of how many?

Hardly "full" of generalizations.

There are many, many more. Forgive both me and Khannie if we don't have the time to trawl the thread looking for them. You think this thread is fair and even-handed because most of the posts agree with your outlook, as Khannie said.

However, the overriding implication in this thread is that those of us who want kids are apparently being stupid or naive or short-sighted to not appreciate all the things that can go wrong - as if we just didn't think of it, like. Like if we understood all those things we couldn't possibly still want them.


Fact of the matter is, you don't need a reason to want or not want kids. You do or you don't, simple as that. And all these "reasons" why kids are bad, life-ruining entities only serve to get the backs up of those who want or have kids.

liah

shellyboo wrote: »

There are many, many more. Forgive both me and Khannie if we don't have the time to trawl the thread looking for them. You think this thread is fair and even-handed because most of the posts agree with your outlook, as Khannie said.

However, the overriding implication in this thread is that those of us who want kids are apparently being stupid or naive or short-sighted to not appreciate all the things that can go wrong - as if we just didn't think of it, like. Like if we understood all those things we couldn't possibly still want them.


Fact of the matter is, you don't need a reason to want or not want kids. You do or you don't, simple as that. And all these "reasons" why kids are bad, life-ruining entities only serve to get the backs up of those who want or have kids.

Trust me, there's an equal amount of high and mighties looking down from their high horses on those of us who've made the decision to not have kids.

shellyboo

liah wrote: »

Trust me, there's an equal amount of high and mighties looking down from their high horses on those of us who've made the decision to not have kids.

Find me a post, cos I can't see any.

pikachucheeks

Novella wrote: »

I think a lot of the comments in this thread are coming from young women. I'm not generalising here, well, I'm not trying to, but aged between 18-30 give or take, a lot of women are interested in socialising, their career, keeping their body in shape etc.

Definitely agree.

A lot of us that are saying we don't kids are under twenty five and kids just aren't a priority right now - there's other things like college and as you mentioned, careers and going out, socialising being more predominant and important.

I can predict that five or ten years down the line, some of us will have changed our minds, while others won't - but that's life. People change, as we get older, our priorities and want we want from life changes. Everyone's different and different things fulfill us and make us happy.

Speaking for myself, this thread has actually opened my eyes a lot.
Hearing about people's experiences with their own children has made me realise that in the future, maybe it is something I want ; to have kids and a family.

Yes, I'll openly admit I'm petrified of my body changing, being pregnant and going through child birth, but I'm coming round to the idea that perhaps, the pros outweigh the cons and having children is worth that effort and sacrifice ... so, you never know

Cows Go µ

I have always wanted kids in the future, I really couldn't handle it any time soon. But when the time is right, I really want them. I'm actually terrible with kids in general but so are my parents, except for with me and my brother. I have no particular reason for wanting kids, I just know its a fundamental want and need that I just can't explain. But not now, I'm only 21 and still in college, I need a good few years of living my life to the fullest and being just me before I could consider having kids. Plus I would want to have a stable income and a husband if I can. Yeah, I'm one of those traditional types, but I don't really mind.

liah

Real Clare Man wrote: »

....my advice would be where possible to have a child.....

So we should have one, just in case?

Khannie wrote: »

Life's more fun.
...
Lastly, I've had friends who weren't interested in having kids in their 20s. In fact, one who springs to mind was vehemently against having them. Then she met the guy who she married and her perception changed over time. All I'd say to you is: Don't back yourself into a corner. Some people aren't suited to having children, sure, but I think that number is smaller than the number who don't want them in their 20's.

Life's not as fun without kids. Hmm.
Everyone'll change their mind in the end!

Khannie wrote: »

What I've just copped is that the posters in tLL are not representative of the populous as a whole. To be honest, that makes me feel a shed load better.
...
2) Nearly all of the reasons that people are putting forward for not wanting children are not based in reality. Not even slightly.

..Seriously? How is that not offensive? "Thank god you guys aren't the majority in the real world!" And yeah.. not based in reality, clearly. Cheers for that.

Fast_Mover wrote: »

Now, while before I thought these women who didnt want children were strange/odd/selfish...I'v actually come to admire them. They know that they are too selfish to be a parent. I'v seen too many kids with parents that are selfish and it breaks my heart! These parents perfer to have a social life then to sit with their child and do their homework. They buy them every toy left right and center to occupy them/keep them quiet, while a few minutes of quality time with their mother/father would be of much better benefit/prefer to have..and costs nothing!! How the list is endless...

Just because are selfish in that we don't have children doesn't mean we'd be selfish if we did have them by accident or whatever the cause may be. I'm sure the majority of the women on the thread who don't want kids would be amazing, selfless mothers if they ended up with children.

Lollipops23 wrote: »

I thought the natural instinct was to want them, survival of the species and all that lark....

So now we're not natural. Cool.

shellyboo wrote: »

Find me a post, cos I can't see any.

Obviously none of those posts were meant in malice, and neither were any of the posts from "my camp," either. But I'm sure you can see how a hell of a lot of that could be misconstrued as ridiculously offensive to those of us in our camp.

What I'm saying is, you and Khannie seem to be finding offense because you want to.. there really isn't any malice in the thread, not intentional malice, not by a long shot.

Nevyn

I have friends who don't want to be a mother ever.
Thats fine it's thier choice I respect thier choice.
I try never to denegrate thier choice.
I try to afford that respect and courtsey to others, I rarely find that it is reciprocated.

I get told I was stupid to have had kids, that they have ruined my life and my body and any chance of a career and that I was doubly stupid to have had my first at 23.

Yes looking back there are things which I would have done differently but I would never have un done having my son and my daughter they have enriched my life in ways I had never considered and taught me more about myself and what I am capable of then I expected.

When I was 21 I didn't want kids not then not if ever as I was the elsdest of 5 with only a 8 year gap between us all and had to help out with the other a lot growing up.
My mohther was shocked when I had kids, I wasn't I knew I migth be a Mam some day.

IF you don't want to have kids fine, if you do fine, plan your life for what will make you happy and I hope no one ever regrests having had thier kid or not having had any.

I would never say that either choice is better, as I can only make my choices for me,
but I find intolerance on either side of this choice to be something I can't stand.

There are good reasons and bad reasons on either side and stupid ones too.
No one wants to be called stupid for having kids and no one wants to be called immature for not wanting kids.
Live and let live.

megapixel

Ladies no need to fight over this as no one answer or view is better than anyone elses.

I'm firmly in the "no kids for me" side but i see nothing wrong with those who do, fair play to them.

Society as a whole puts a lot of pressure on women as soon as they are settled in a relationship... "oh when's the big day" or "any sign of the pitter patter of little feet".

And if you don't fall within those guidelines people look strange at you question you.

Well that's my 2 cents for the evening.

midlandsmissus

sam34 wrote: »

firstly, having kids is no guarantee of having them still around when you age: they may die young, or f**k off to australia, fall in love there and never return.

secondly, i work as an old age psychiatrist, and i see countelss elderly people whose families do not want to be involved, for a variety of reasons. no doubt, some of those elderly people may have been incredibly difficult parents, and may not deserve much form their now-adult-children, but not all of them.

there are a lot of selfish people out there, who do not want to be burdened by elderly parents, and who will not tolerate those elderly parents inpinging on their lives.

i bet the parents never anticipated that when they were making sacrifices for their kids.

Yeah that's very true. I used to visit my mum at work alot when she managed an old people's home.

Not one of them EVER had a visit from a friend, the only people who ever visited were family members.

However, plenty of the old people who did have children were never visited once. I remember one particular lovely old lady who had two sons in England, that never ever came to see her. Nobody could even find the sons to tell them she was dying. She died completely alone.

Alot of grown up children don't want the hassle of elderly parents when they have families themselves.

Basically, we're fecked when we're old :-(

Anyway back on topic, I dont think ANYONE has children for the reason that they might be lonely in old age. I can't wait to have a baby, simply because it will be another person to love in my lil world :-)

Chinafoot

megapixel wrote: »

Ladies no need to fight over this as no one answer or view is better than anyone elses.

Exactly.

When these threads crop up on boards I always have to laugh as they very often result in those who call themselves "childfree" being quite defensive about that decision.

I personally want children at some point. Does that mean I think I'm better than you? Absolutely not. Does your decision make you better than me? Absolutely not. I shouldnt have to defend my desire for children and nor should anyone who doesn't want them have to defend their position. Different strokes for different folks.

If someone mentions the joy their children have brought to their lives why is it always met with the defensive response of "oh so you're saying my life is empty??"? I really don't get it.

Personally I find the majority of those on high horses about this are those that don't want kids. Nobody is looking down their nose at you, so maybe realx a litte, brush off that little chip on your shoulder and enjoy your life however you plan to live it.

sunnyside

I am very much in the anti-children camp too. I'm 31 so a bit older than a lot of the ladies posting here. Same reasons as everyone else who posted but I just want to add something about money.

My financial position isn't great. If I was to include baby expenses the mortgage would go unpaid, that's how tight my budget is. I just couldn't afford it even if I wanted it. I think a lot of people who post all the positives about children (still going on 2 holidays a year and paying babysitters) are clearly in a much better financial position.

I also think it's really unfair that there are so many like me who just don't want children while others resort to IVF and would do anything to have them. I would happily take the infertility problem. It wouldn't bother me.

sam34

sunnyside wrote: »

I also think it's really unfair that there are so many like me who just don't want children while others resort to IVF and would do anything to have them. I would happily take the infertility problem. It wouldn't bother me.

it does seem really unfair, doesnt it?

i've watched a sibling and a friend of mine both go through the heartache of repeated IVF attempts (thankfully both have now had healthy babies) and i've seen how desperate they were to have children, all the time i was doing everything i could* not to get pregnant.

i was recently diagnosed with a condition which would make it difficult for me to conceive (not impossible, but difficult) - the consultant expected me to be upset over this, but i was hugely relieved. it means that even if i slip up with contraception (which i have never done) the chances of an accidental pregnancy are very very slim. thats hugely reassuring to me.


*well, not quite everything i could to avoid pregnancy,as that would require abstinence, but you get my drift...;)

stovelid

Re: children who never visit their elderly parent(s).

I wonder do visits magically increase toward the end of the parent's life when a house/inheritance is in the offing?

sam34

stovelid wrote: »

Re: children who never visit their elderly parent(s).

I wonder do visits magically increase when a house/inheritance is in the offing?

what i have often seen happening is that the children are the model offspring, have the elderly parents living with them, everything going swimmingly well, until teh parent decides to sign over teh house/farm to the son/daughter.

shortly afterwards, the parent finds themselves in a nursing home.

it's despicable behaviour imo.

metrovelvet

stovelid wrote: »

Re: children who never visit their elderly parent(s).

I wonder do visits magically increase toward the end of the parent's life when a house/inheritance is in the offing?

I visited my father every single day he was in the hospital until the day he died.

stovelid

sam34 wrote: »

what i have often seen happening is that the children are the model offspring, have the elderly parents living with them, everything going swimmingly well, until teh parent decides to sign over teh house/farm to the son/daughter.

shortly afterwards, the parent finds themselves in a nursing home.

it's despicable behaviour imo.

I have heard stories like this, second-hand, too. It's horrible to hear from somebody with experience that it actually does happen.

metrovelvet wrote: »

I visited my father every single day he was in the hospital until the day he died.

I was only wondering out loud, MV. Wasn't inferring that anybody in here was like that.

WesternNight

Can I just say... if someone of 19, 20, or 25 says they don't want children... I really hate seeing people tell them that they'll feel differently when they're older/married/whatever. Or that they're too young to understand the joy of having children. That may well be the case but for right now that's the way it is and when you say that you're basically telling them that they don't know their own minds and frankly I'd imagine it's quite offending to be told that.

It doesn't matter what reasons anyone has for not wanting kids. You can't say to someone "oh well your reasons aren't good enough, now go get knocked up".

I just don't get why people have such big opinions about what other people don't do with their lives.

But anyway, carry on :P

metrovelvet

stovelid wrote: »

I was only wondering out loud, MV. Wasn't inferring that anybody in here was like that.

I wasnt picking on you particularly. There have been a few comments about grown up children never visiting their parents when they are in the nusing home and hospital. Maybe some dont. But a hell of a lot do. And all of you should too, when your parents are old, or sick, or dying. They will be lying there alone at the end of their days sadenned that they are just not part of your lives anymore.

That element of this thread, I find the most disturbing.

stovelid

metrovelvet wrote: »

I wasnt picking on you particularly.

This should read: I wasn't picking on you at all.

sunnyside

Khannie wrote: »

I wish this thread would go away. It's full of hard line stances from otherwise rational people and frankly, as a parent and a father, I find some of the generalisations both ridiculously sweeping and upsetting.

Please don't let this thread upset you. I read your posts and I think they added so much to this thread, making it a lot more balanced. I read what you wrote and I thought "he sounds lovely and like such a great dad".

I've just thought of another reason why I wouldn't be great with children. I have suffered from depression/anxiety, not right now but it's never completely gone away either. Sometimes taking care of myself is as much as I can manage and I don't think I could cope with all the extra stress children would bring.

sam34

metrovelvet wrote: »

I wasnt picking on you particularly. There have been a few comments about grown up children never visiting their parents when they are in the nusing home and hospital. Maybe some dont. But a hell of a lot do.

of course some do. some children cannot do enough for their elderly parents, and are really great to them.

but there are others who literally abandon the old folks. i see it every day when i go into work.

i see elderly people in nursing homes who have had no visitors in literally years.

i see elderly people dumped in nursing homes after signing over property.

and i see the phenomenon that is colloquially called the "christmas granny" in hospitals.... when relatives spend two weeks of christmas holidays at home all day every day with the elderly person, they get sick of them, drop them off at the local A&E with some vague complaint such as "she's not herself/she's a bit off form" etc, and then refuse to take them home.

i've even seen a family dump a granny in A&E and when we phoned them later to discuss soemthing we were told tehy were on their way to teh airport and would be back for granny in two weeks :eek:

i'm not making that up. i wish i was, but i'm not.

there are a lot of decent people out there, but there are some despicable and cruel ones out there too.

sam34

WesternNight wrote: »

I just don't get why people have such big opinions about what other people don't do with their lives.

exactly.

i dont understand why people give a damn about my choices.

they should just respect them and leave it at that.

i am a competent adult, i can make choices about my life and future without interference from anyone else, and it really isn't any of their business.

i would never dream of asking any parent whether all their children were planned, or if they were secretely raging that they got caught on that last one, and equally i dont think they should ask me if im happy to remain childfree.

my fertility and reproductive choices are my business, and that of a partner, and my doctor... nobody else.

ToniTuddle

I'm not a mother and currently have no intentions of being one.

I will never bring a child into this world unless I am in a serious and long term relationship. Genuine love for life! Plus completed an anger managemnet course. Plus do a few parenting classes and learn Gina Ford baby/toddler books off by heart!:eek:
Even then...I honestly don't know if I ever would have children.

The peeing on, poo-filled nappies or the puke doesn't bother me at all, in fact you be more worried when they are not pooing and puking!!
(Worked as a nanny for a year)
Snot and running noses really annoy me though:p

No but seriously, I have had moments in the past where I thought it would be lovely to have children. In the last few years though those brief thoughts have completely and utterly disappeared. I would definitely have to deal with alot of personal issues before I brought a life into this world.

Working as a nanny was a real eye opener. My boss never actually wanted children and her husband already had 2 kids from a previous relationship. (Saw all the tensions from that situation)
Her pregnancy was basically an accident which she saw through to the end and has never looked back. Even though she admits she would never want anymore children as she doesn't believe she would love them as much as this one she has now.

For me......I guess time will tell!

stovelid

I know it sounds blasé, but a lot of the questioning that people take such offence to (on either side) is of the automated, brainless variety.

My mother no sooner accepted the birth of her grandson before she was asking about number two. I've no doubt that she would ask the same questions if we didn't want kids. And I've no doubt she would be mortified if it occurred to her that the question might offend my wife (It doesn't).

We take this stuff about as seriously as her asking (in my 30s) me whether or not I intend to wear a scarf out when I visit.

This kind of gormless societal questioning is part of life - whether from family, colleagues or friends - and if it isn't about kids, it will be about something else.

sam34

stovelid wrote: »

This kind of gormless societal questioning is part of life - whether from family, colleagues or friends - and if it isn't about kids, it will be about something else.

i know lots of people do it, but its still very intrusive and downright nosey.

i remember this being discussed on a thread here before, and someone came up with some hilarious possible answers to teh question "why dont you have any kids" - the one i remember from that thread is "you know, i'd love to get pregnant, but i really love taking it up the ass so we do it that way instead"

guaranteed conversation stopper!!

Little Acorn

Shellyboo

I don't really think relationships have anything to do with exact, 50-50 split, equality either. I don't think any relationship - parental, sibling, friendship, partners - could survive such a strict balance.

Whatever happened to compromise?

I can see your point Shellyboo, and I don't have any problem with compromise with my family, friends or partner,infact I sometimes feel that I compromise more in some of my relationships with friends and family etc. than they do, but it doesn't really bother me at all.
Yet for some reason,when it comes to child rearing 50-50 responsibility is something I feel very strongly about.
I also agree that the majority of couples could never survive such a strict balance, (which for me would be essential) and that is why I do not feel inclined to have children.
I'm aware that alot of parents don't have any problem with one partner doing abit more with the child,and that some parents might even prefer things that way,and that's totally fine aslong as they are happy and it works for them.
I just don't feel I would be happy in that situation or could make it work.
I wouldn't mind compromise in child rearing,if it all balanced itself out in the end and ended up with both parents still putting in an equal amount of effort and work.

I feel abit odd having such a strong opinion on childrearing having to be exactly 50-50,because almost every couple I know with kids,has one parent who does more with children than the other, and it doesn't seem to bother the majority of them,(it does with some).

I think my views may have developed at such a young age for me,as I have known so many girls who got preganant as teenagers and have been left to do practically everything by themselves.
Whilst I have a tremendous amount of respect for single parents both male and female,and a complete feeling of awe at how they manage,
I always got a strong feeling of things being incredibly unjust,and always wondered "why does this happen?" "why is it all left to one parent?" "It's very unfair" etc.(the people themselves seemed to manage just fine,and didn't seem to display the feeling of unjustness,that I felt for them)
These feelings that everything has to be exactly equal, have always stuck with me.
Perhaps if I ever have an unexpected pregnancy,my views might soften on how strict the responsibility balance had to be between parents, I can't envision it right now as feel so strongly about it,but nobody knows what the future holds and I can't predict how circumstances could possibly change my views,so I can never say never regarding children as anybody could get pregnant unexpectedly,and change their mind about things.

Khannie

I find some of the generalisations both ridiculously sweeping and upsetting.

a child has the potential to destroy relationships
I could meet that one with "drinking water is potentially lethal!"

Hi Khannie, I didn't intend for that comment (in bold) to be sweeping,but can see now that it could come across that way.
It wasn't meant to be upsetting,I was only commenting on what I've seen happen in a few relationships that I have known,and that I feel would be very likely to happen in my own personal relationship.

I also know lots of people,who's children have brought them even closer together and cemented them as a family.
You seem like an excellent father who loves his kids and wife very much,so that statement was in no way directed at you.

My post was only answering the OP on what MY personal reasons were for not wanting children.
I don't think anybody is daft for wanting children,and know that almost all who have them love them more than anything else in the world,and are extremely happy with their choice.
As I mentioned, I can see the reasons why people would want children,
it's just that for myself personally,I have a very pessimistic view that
*my preference of complete equality would never be met,
*this would make me miserable
*above would lead to a split therefore resulting in me being a single mum doing the majority of childrearing(which is something I don't believe for a second I would be mentally strong enough for)

But again,my pessimistic views only apply to myself from what I've noticed in my life around me, but I am optimistic for my sister and her family and my friends with children.
Maybe I will feel that optimism and confidence (that everything would work out grand), in myself someday and somehow lose my fears.
Because I'm usually optimistic in most other aspects of life.
Glass half full,and all that malarkey...

Chinafoot

stovelid wrote: »

This kind of gormless societal questioning is part of life - whether from family, colleagues or friends - and if it isn't about kids, it will be about something else.

Agreed. I think when it comes to the kids question especially, the generational differences have to be take into account. The majority of those who ask these questions, in my opinion anyway, are those who came from a society where it was very much the done thing. Thats not the case anymore.

The defensiveness is what gets me though. You don't ned to make excuses, you don't need to get pissed off. Fair enough if someone starts hassling you but in my experience (and in the majority of threads like this its very evident) defensiveness is the first port of call for those who don't want children.

Society is changing, and has been changing for quite a while. There is nothing wrong with deciding not to have children.

arac

Ive read this thread with interest. In my opinion (and it could invoke the ire of some) it's "no" camp that are coming across as more belligerent/defensive in their arguments about not wanting kids, whereas the "yes" side appear to have a softer tone to their reasoning.

Personally, up until now I have had no real desire to have a child..but I can feel that changing slowly (28 by the way) ..

I find myself listening with interest when people start talking about babies, particularly my mother's knowledge and expertise on this...I do coo over small babies when I see them when out and about shopping or just on tv..and there is deeply buried broodiness that is ever emerging..

I still know that they are a while off yet..but I am conscious of the ticking internal omnipresent clock that's always gently letting me know that there's a time frame on this..there has to be an element to biology to it..as well as just the stage you are at life..

For instance I am in a long term relationship with my partner, we have just moved in together and it's we have talked about kids in a vague far off in the future kinda way (conveniently so in fact;))..it just feels natural to be thinking about it..

My concerns about having kids are not particularly the loss of freedom, or the childbirth (think I could overcome the trauma eventually)..it would be my worry about them as people, down the line..I mean the world is a tough place! I would be worried they would be vulnerable, depressed, bullied, suicidal, that they would have their heart broken, would struggle just in general with life...a whole myriad of pscychological and pscyhiatric possiblities often seize me with terror..I mean not everyone sails through life, without a hitch, it's a bit of a battle to some of us..I would similarly worry about whether the baby will be physically healthy and not struck down by some awful ailment that could affect the rest of their lives..like cf or something terrible like that..I suppose everyone has their anxieties like this.

I do think, however that alot of people fail to see the bigger picture, only imagining the immediacy of the early years, the changing of nappies, the gorgeous little baby, the warm comforting glow of a child that adores you and depends on you..neglecting to think about those tough years of puberty and early adulthood, where without the right supports in place a person can become isolated and lost as they try to discover who they really are and find their feet in the world..whenever I pass a homeless person on the street, I often think to myself that they started off just like me, a little helpless baby that was probably loved and cherished, so how have I ended up in my fortunate position and them in their less desirable place? I know that's a widely sweeping commentary that brings in to question many other social factors but you can see where I am coming from?

I also think to dysfunctional families, or families that don't speak to one another or that are torn apart by conflict and heartache..like most I had a supremely happy childhood, but there are still issues within my own family that continually haunt my parents that would possibly turn me off ever having kids of my own..I mean I'd hope my children would like me and wouldn't blame me for their shortcomings (ever read the poem " This be the Verse" by Philip Larkin which begins with the line "They **** you up your mum and dad, they don't mean to but they do..."? It's a good one, yet uncomfortably resonating)

Now I know you have to take risks in life or it is not life lived to it's fullest..but I suppose what I am trying to say is there is more to having a baby than just enjoying the salad days and loveliness of the early years, there's so much more to it..

I do think that I would regret never having children, even though Im not particularly in any rush at the moment.. my partner said to me tentatively when we spoke (vaguely enough again:eek:) that he would like a son..and that filled me with a strange sense of pride and hope that I could give him one..I would love down the line to see him bring him to gaa matches and teach him how to drive and eventually bring him for his first pint, in general showing him the ways of the world....the same way I would love to be attending my daughter's graduation and being her best friend, the way my mum is to me..maybe meeting the right person has alot to do with it..

Mostly I feel it's my own mother that inspires me to have kids, if I could be half the mother she was to all of us, I think I would be doing well..come what may..

Malari

I'm coming in a bit late on this and haven't read the entire thread, but I would definitely in the "no kids" camp.

I was a bit vague earlier on in life. I think maybe when you're younger you assume you'll go through the marriage, kids, house route because that's probably what you've grown up with.

As I got older I knew I wouldn't be having kids. I am lucky enough to be with a man who I am deeply in love with and who also doesn't want them because it would be my numero uno deal-breaker.

My reasons are pretty much as already mentioned by other posters, summed up as:

1. Love my life as it is.
2. Don't want to ruin my body.
3. Financial reasons (yes, I can't afford it, but I can think of a million better things to spend money on)
4. I like sleep, freedom, sex whenever and wherever in my own house
5. I don't like other people's children. Or any children actually.
6. I like things to be neat and tidy and clean. And I don't like waste. I've never seen a kid yet who finishes its meal.

Some may seem superficial to wannabe mothers, but if I'm worried by the above, think how much more stuff I'd be worried about if I was forced to have a kid

CrazyChick18

Hey guys well im 19 and i have always had the dream growing up living in a big house with my husband and a gud few children running around, but things certainly dont go to plan.

As now i have a 6month old baby girl that i love more then anything in this world as so does her dad, but i wish it didnt happen for another few years but it did and we are blessed!

and we do talk about having other kids but def when we are setttled which wont be for another 7 or 8 years and then we will think about adding more to the family:)

John Mason

i am 35 and i have never had the urge breed, and i very much doubt is going to kick in at this stage.

i had years of people making me hold their babies to "put the longing on me", they all know better now and dont even offer me the baby. i have zero interest in them.

Whispered

Lollipops23 wrote: »

, I just can't understand not wanting them. I thought the natural instinct was to want them, survival of the species and all that lark.......

I think it's funny in that I stand on the opposite end, I have no urge what so ever to have kids. I have no interest in kids, babies generally look cute, but that would be as much as I feel. I have no reason for feeling this, you probably have no "reason" for your urge, we could probably sit down and find a million things we agree on and have in common and on this one fundamental area of life, for no particular reason, we would disagree. You simply have an urge to have kids, I simply don't.

Does anyone know if this could be a hormonal thing, something effects by the way we were brough up (I doubt it as my sister has posted in the thread saying she wants kids). Why do some people have urges and some don't? I don't mean reasons, I mean on a more base level.

pikachucheeks wrote: »

Speaking for myself, this thread has actually opened my eyes a lot.
Hearing about people's experiences with their own children has made me realise that in the future, maybe it is something I want ; to have kids and a family.

I think thats lovely. Sometimes boards can have a real effect on peoples lives and outlook.

Demonique

liah wrote: »

3) Childbirth. No matter what my body's getting wrecked at least temporarily, if not permanently, and I don't like that. I don't fancy the idea of possibly defecating/urinating in front of a live studio audience. I don't want the stretch marks, I don't want the extra weight, I don't want a c-section scar or a broken vagina. Yeah, it's selfish. All of my reasons are selfish. I'm the first person to admit that. But it's just how I feel.

http://www.momlogic.com/2009/11/my_bits_fell_out_vaginal_prolapse.php

liah wrote: »

If I ended up with a guy who wanted kids.. I'm not sure how I'd react. I think maybe the max I would do (now this is going to sound hugely crass and selfish and just.. wrong) is maybe adopt an older child who was out of the toddler/tantrum phase. Or.. get a surrogate mother if the guy was adamant about wanting the kid to be his (and they usually are). I'm really paranoid about my body getting messed up. Like, nearly to a phobic degree.

Guys always flipping want kids. I reckon it's because they get the "easy" part. :P (god, someone's going to flip on that comment; the smiley is there for a reason! don't kill me!)

It'd be a deal breaker for me. I don't want kids. He'll either have to accept that or hit the road.

metrovelvet

^ It didnt wreck my body at all.

Your body is going to get wrecked eventually, by every woman's enemy, time.