kevpants <3 Brad

Khannie

kevpants wrote: »

Skinny blokes of Ireland I have a message for you. Your washboard stomach is not an achievement to be proud of, you are not "athletic" or "muscular". You are just a skinny bloke.

I'm "a skinny bloke". I'm 171 cm and 63-65KG most of the time. I'm happy with how I look, though that has nothing to do with how or why I train. Nothing.

You don't think I look good? Like I give a sh*t. :rolleyes:

Roper

In defence of kevpants, I don't think he's trying to insult all skinny blokes. It's just that most people who say they want to get ripped just mean they want to look ripped.

kevpants

Roper wrote: »

What about Cannon or Ball?

Jake



or the fat man

Khannie

Roper wrote: »

In defence of kevpants, I don't think he's trying to insult all skinny blokes. It's just that most people who say they want to get ripped just mean they want to look ripped.

Fair enough. What's the difference though?

kevpants

Khannie wrote: »

I'm "a skinny bloke". I'm 171 cm and 63-65KG most of the time. I'm happy with how I look, though that has nothing to do with how or why I train. Nothing.

You don't think I look good? Like I give a sh*t. :rolleyes:

You go girl*

Roper wrote: »

In defence of kevpants, I don't think he's trying to insult all skinny blokes. It's just that most people who say they want to get ripped just mean they want to look ripped.

This is what I meant. People wanting to look muscular most of the time just want abs. The answer to the question they are asking isn't right because...ehm...the question they are asking isn't what they are really asking...



* Joking. You just went a bit "Shaniqua don't need no baby daddy on Ricki Lake" there for a minute Khannie.

imported_guy

when your wearing clothes what do girls notice first, 6 pack abs, or chest and arms?






























































no hate on brad, just sayin LOL

Captain Furball

This is the fitness forum, not the power lifting beefcake forum.

celestial

kevpants wrote: »

Ya see this is the thing. Every time I mention fat being added when gaining muscle everyone starts defending their washboard stomachs and bleating on about fat powerlifters not understanding. First things first, I'm not fat, nor would I ever entertain the notion of being fat. I'm in a very high risk group for heart disease so it's a no no. I am however 223lbs, quite lean, and quite strong (even for the internet). My point is you might have to put up with the washboard dissappearing if you want to become bigger or stronger than average.

Skinny blokes of Ireland I have a message for you. Your washboard stomach is not an achievement to be proud of, you are not "athletic" or "muscular". You are just a skinny bloke.



But what's a "casual trainee"? You either have a goal or you don't. If you want to look like a CK model I've already stated I bow to others knowledge of how to get there. If you ask about muscle the best way is to eat with recovery in mind, not body image. Hell you may not get any noticeable fat if you're lucky, skinny blokes who want to be bigger are so far removed from fat it's not an issue. So long as they train hard they won't get fat. If they eat to recover and do nothing to recover from then yeah, it's fat town.



See what I mean, the fat powerlifter card. I'm gonna have to start qualifying all my posts with a raunchy photograph of myself. People obviously think I'm a puddin.

I know it's just the internetz, but your posts come across like there are only two kinds of people who want to get muscular - skinny runts who are after washboard abs or big dudes who aren't afraid of eating. Most people fall in between - you'll find most just want to add some muscle, lose fat and look good. This pretty much doesn't involve getting fat in the pursuit of muscle.

Did you not also put on a pile of weight (fat and muscle) last summer and then lose all the fat again? Your 'nor would I ever entertain the notion of being fat" claim was a head-scratcher.

It's all about preferences at the end of the day and I actually agree with a lot of what you're saying - it's just that people have different ideas of what constitutes 'muscular' - for most blokes it ain't about getting muscular so much as 'toned' - low bodyfat which reveals the muscle beneath (I'm not one of em, mind).

EDIT - Roper pretty much said what I posted there - people just wanna be ripped not hyooooge

imported_guy

Captain Furball wrote: »

This is the fitness forum, not the power lifting beefcake forum.

power lifiting is a form of fitness/exercise regime, and beefcake is a degradatory term used by skinny people who's girlfriends like more alpha + musclar people who go to the gym...... no hate jus sayin.

Celestial, B-Builder, Bossarky and imported_guy, thanks for explainign that to me. Kind of obvious when I think about it, guess that's why me and general arithmetic never bode too well in school !

slicus ricus

This is all very confusing! Kevpants, i would regard you as a voice of reason for the most part but I have to disagree with you slightly here. I don't think people necessarily want to look like either Brad Pitt in fightclub or like Bill Kazmaier. I can only speak for myself in this one but I would be quite confident that others would have a similar take on it.

I'm at the stage now where I train basically to stay in shape - I want to definately keep the muscle i've managed to put on and would like to put on a bit more if possible - in order to do this, i'm willing to eat a high protein diet. I've been training long enough to realise that there's only so much you can do naturally and to be quite honest, i don't want to achieve the results that you would do by juicing.

Now, while i've mentioned that i would like to put on muscle, i don't want to increase my body fat levels too much beyond where they are now - i've done so in the past and i wasn't happy about the results. I don't want to be reaching single figure body fat percentages either and certainly don't crave the washboard stomach that Kevpants was referring to.

Essentially, I want to develop more muscle without increasing my bodyfat % (yes, I get the fact that bf% is proportionate to actual weight before someone points this out again). My goal doesn't fit into the Brad or Bill category - i don't want to get a seriously low bf% and I don't want to be anywhere near as big as Bill Kazmaier. While I have huge respect for people who are involved in powerlifting, I would not personally be willing to make the sacrifices necessary to be competitive at bench/squat/deadlifts and i'm ok with that fact.

While obviously not everyone would be coming from the same angle as me with their training, i'm sure there are people who are. For the sake of constructive chat here, it would make sense if people properly clarified what they want from their training so people can offer advice rather than get into arguments due to a lack clarity.

Captain Furball

slicus ricus wrote: »

This is all very confusing! Kevpants, i would regard you as a voice of reason for the most part but I have to disagree with you slightly here. I don't think people necessarily want to look like either Brad Pitt in fightclub or like Bill Kazmaier. I can only speak for myself in this one but I would be quite confident that others would have a similar take on it.

I'm at the stage now where I train basically to stay in shape - I want to definately keep the muscle i've managed to put on and would like to put on a bit more if possible - in order to do this, i'm willing to eat a high protein diet. I've been training long enough to realise that there's only so much you can do naturally and to be quite honest, i don't want to achieve the results that you would do by juicing.

Now, while i've mentioned that i would like to put on muscle, i don't want to increase my body fat levels too much beyond where they are now - i've done so in the past and i wasn't happy about the results. I don't want to be reaching single figure body fat percentages either and certainly don't crave the washboard stomach that Kevpants was referring to.

Essentially, I want to develop more muscle without increasing my bodyfat % (yes, I get the fact that bf% is proportionate to actual weight before someone points this out again). My goal doesn't fit into the Brad or Bill category - i don't want to get a seriously low bf% and I don't want to be anywhere near as big as Bill Kazmaier. While I have huge respect for people who are involved in powerlifting, I would not personally be willing to make the sacrifices necessary to be competitive at bench/squat/deadlifts and i'm ok with that fact.

While obviously not everyone would be coming from the same angle as me with their training, i'm sure there are people who are. For the sake of constructive chat here, it would make sense if people properly clarified what they want from their training so people can offer advice rather than get into arguments due to a lack clarity.

95% of people who visit this forum or any other forum want what you want.I don't see why you have to be all apologetic about it.This thread is about can you put on muscle while losing fat, the answer was yes of course you can.

justsomebloke

I just want to know when getting bigger became more appealing then getting stronger:(

Roper

Khannie here's the distinction as I see it. Maybe others will disagree but this is quite subjective.

Someone who talks about muscle gain, but really just wants to see their abs, probably doesn't have to do any additional lifting, they just need to cut their bodyfat right down and they will get that Pitt-esque physique. These people talk about getting "ripped", getting "washboard abs" etc. etc. but don't want to put on any extra weight.

That's a fine and dandy goal, and a lot of people have it but what irritates people like me and, I think it's safe to say, my new best friend kevpants is that people equate being in great shape and fit with single digit bodyfat, no matter what that the rest of the scores on your chart are.

mloc

Roper wrote: »

Khannie here's the distinction as I see it. Maybe others will disagree but this is quite subjective.

Someone who talks about muscle gain, but really just wants to see their abs, probably doesn't have to do any additional lifting, they just need to cut their bodyfat right down and they will get that Pitt-esque physique. These people talk about getting "ripped", getting "washboard abs" etc. etc. but don't want to put on any extra weight.

That's a fine and dandy goal, and a lot of people have it but what irritates people like me and, I think it's safe to say, my new best friend kevpants is that people equate being in great shape and fit with single digit bodyfat, no matter what that the rest of the scores on your chart are.

QFT

slicus ricus

Captain Furball wrote: »

95% of people who visit this forum or any other forum want what you want.I don't see why you have to be all apologetic about it.This thread is about can you put on muscle while losing fat, the answer was yes of course you can.

Just to clarify, I didn't once say that I wanted to lose fat while putting on muscle.

Is it possible to put on muscle when losing fat i.e. on a calorie deficit? No. What is possible is that you can gain muscle while on calorie maintenance - i.e. neither deficit nor surplus. You can also look more muscular through losing bodyfat through calorie deficit, however, you won't actually be putting on muscle. I think it's important to understand that distinction.

Captain Furball

slicus ricus wrote: »

Just to clarify, I didn't once say that I wanted to lose fat while putting on muscle.

Is it possible to put on muscle when losing fat i.e. on a calorie deficit? No. What is possible is that you can gain muscle while on calorie maintenance - i.e. neither deficit nor surplus. You can also look more muscular through losing bodyfat through calorie deficit, however, you won't actually be putting on muscle. I think it's important to understand that distinction.

As I said most people want to do what you want, except they say I want to lose fat while gaining muscle.You seemed to cover your ass fairly well with your replies.

TommyKnocker

slicus ricus wrote: »

Just to clarify, I didn't once say that I wanted to lose fat while putting on muscle.

Is it possible to put on muscle when losing fat i.e. on a calorie deficit? No. What is possible is that you can gain muscle while on calorie maintenance - i.e. neither deficit nor surplus. You can also look more muscular through losing bodyfat through calorie deficit, however, you won't actually be putting on muscle. I think it's important to understand that distinction.

Hi

I would have to disagree with the gaining muscle while eating maintenance calories. If your expending the same number of calories that you consume, I don't see how you could gain anything.

I do believe (because it seems to be working for me) that you can eat modest enough surplus and gain lean mass while maintaining the same BF %.

I started a 5x5 routine at the end of July and took more notice of my diet. At the start my stats were as follows

Weight 11st 7lb
BF% 13.5

Last Saturday Morning my stats were

Weight 11st 10lb
BF % 13

I am 46yr old male @ 5' 6". My aesthetic goal is to try and get to 12st with approx with 10% BF.

Primarily I workout to stay as fit and healthy as possible as I head for the big 50. However I would be more than happy to gain a physique more similar to Brad than to Bill. The everyday "Brad" physique would suffice, but the physique he had in Troy or the Physique Gerard Butler had in 300 would be even better

I prefer the look where you have muscle definition rather than just pure size. At 46 I am not prepared to follow the "See Food Diet" where I have to go through 8-12 week cuts to lean out. So I am trying to do it by eating cleanly 98% of the time at a surplus of 300-400 calories and don't mind if it takes longer than the eat everything in sight option.

So far I am happy enough with 3lb of mostly lean gain in 3 months.

Just my 2 cents worth.


Best Regards,

M

Jimmy Bottlehead

I'd say what most guys would aim for (if they're training mainly to look good, as opposed to other reasons) is the Brad Pitt body. Don't see why really - I prefer carrying a bit more (just a bit, mind!) fat, but also having bigger arms, shoulders, chest and legs, as well as a cracking arse.

I think the missus prefers the Gerard Butler look:

Not ripped per se, but decent bf level while looking relatively muscular.

I still don't agree with the 'eat everything in sight to get huge' approach. Tried it, got too pudgy, didn't look great. Recently, eating smarter is having waaaaay better results. Of course, if your goal is pure size, go for huge calorie surpluses, but I'd stick with smart dieting over that if you want it to be aesthetically pleasing.

Magic Eight Ball

Is this asking too much??
Ivan's pretty much got the best of both worlds IMO.

kevpants

Excellent thread title!

The Brad or Bill thing was obviously a joke. But there is a distinction between what people are talking about here.

It's got to come down to goals, do you actually want to be big and strong or do you want the model look.

TBH I outright reject the argument that most people fall somewhere in the middle and they don't really want either. Well why the hell not? What's the goal? At least the skinny pretentious Calvin Kliens are aiming for something. If you ask about how to gain muscle but not get fat it's a valid question to ask that person where they see themselves at the end.

To defend myself, I went through a few weeks of cutting over the summer so people are presuming I was fat. I wasn't, I was fatter than I'd like. Here's a vid of me at my heaviest, 110kg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT603yLKo9Y

Hardly obese (God they were awful sumos though)

The bit of extra weight came from a year of drinking 3 litres of milk a day and countless calories.

I cut back to 100kg for powerlifting weight class and health reasons within a month and it was fun! I went for walks with my wife and myself and Hanley raced eachother up a hill until we puked for time.

At the end of the month it turned out that despite training simply for greater squat/bench/pull numbers, I looked pretty.

All I'm trying to say is eat to recover. If you want to get bigger you have to. I'm not trying to get everyone to look like a fat powerlifter so stop accusing me of doing that. I understand if people end up obese they won't like the end result.

Captain Furball

If your trying to do it for women or other men makes a big difference.

Trevor Coulahan

Trevor Coulahan wrote: »

Is this asking too much??
Ivan's pretty much got the best of both worlds IMO.

Little Ivan (sic) also tested positive for steroid use.

To each their own etc.

Ouijaboard

fcuk sake kev, its not all black and white, I wanna look like the rock

http://www.islandconnections.com/images/rock/rock1.jpg

When it comes to weight training/fitness people who want to get massively big or insanely strong are in the minority unfortunately, most people are happy with something in-between so the idea of adding fat to achieve their goal is tantamount to disaster for them. Most people when they start, want lean up, gain some strength and add a bit of muscle to make it look like they they've actually trained.

Its a pity because, I get exactly what you are saying, If they embraced a bit of extra fat, and not think of it as a total disaster then they would probably achieve their goal an awful lot faster.

In the meantime its going to take them twice as long to add any muscle if they are overly anal about a little fat along with it. It needs to be kept within reason tho, no point someone fooling themselves that they look like gerard butler if they cant see their toes because of that growing beach-ball hanging from their waist blocking their view.

cardio,shoot me

Trevor Coulahan wrote: »

Is this asking too much??
Ivan's pretty much got the best of both worlds IMO.

My ideal physique too :P

Khannie

Love the thread title.

Roper wrote: »

Khannie here's the distinction as I see it.

What?

Roper wrote: »

Someone who talks about muscle gain, but really just wants to see their abs, probably doesn't have to do any additional lifting, they just need to cut their bodyfat right down and they will get that Pitt-esque physique. These people talk about getting "ripped", getting "washboard abs" etc. etc. but don't want to put on any extra weight.

That's a fine and dandy goal, and a lot of people have it but what irritates people like me and, I think it's safe to say, my new best friend kevpants is that people equate being in great shape and fit with single digit bodyfat, no matter what that the rest of the scores on your chart are.

Interesting. I think you're probably right. When I was a youngfella I was VERY skinny though. I mean same height, around the same bodyfat, but probably 10KG lighter than I am now. Now I would have had, or very nearly had a 6 pack for most of my youth and that was mostly just because of low bodyfat. I never would have called myself ripped though. I think it'd be an interesting experiment to post the question (with a bunch of pics) in the ladies lounge if we were allowed.

Pitt looks like he's worked hard to achieve that look in the fight club pic (to me at least....I'd have to do a lot of work to have arms that size).

Hanley

Captain Furball wrote: »

This is the fitness forum, not the power lifting beefcake forum.

Who are you?

I'd say the powerlifters/"beefcakes" who post here are;
1) MUCH more knowledgable and helpful
2) Look A LOT better than the people trying to gain muscle and lose fat

I've only skimmed this thread, but god I'm so happy I wasn't here from the start.

corkcomp

Hanley wrote: »

Who are you?

I'd say the powerlifters/"beefcakes" who post here are;
1) MUCH more knowledgable and helpful
2) Look A LOT better than the people trying to gain muscle and lose fat

I've only skimmed this thread, but god I'm so happy I wasn't here from the start.

maybe the power lifters main goal is to lift as much as possible though? where as, this is a general fitness forum, and maybe a lot of posters are more interested in having a six pack?

Hanley

corkcomp wrote: »

maybe the power lifters main goal is to lift as much as possible though? where as, this is a general fitness forum, and maybe a lot of posters are more interested in having a six pack?

And maybe the powerlifters actually manage to achieve the goal of the majority of posters by not worrying about all the minuscule sh!t and just concentrating on training hard and eating well...?

Captain Furball

Hanley wrote: »

And maybe the powerlifters actually manage to achieve the goal of the majority of posters by not worrying about all the minuscule sh!t and just concentrating on training hard and eating well...?

Seriously how many people want to look like a power lifter?
I know a fair few lads who are huge and drive little cars.
Don't see the attraction to it.