Only the Signature is missing..!

Oblomov

Brawn are quoted as saying they will allow Jensen the commercial rights to his achievements....no more money as long as he completes his obligations to the team..

But, he's doing that already..

EvilMonkey

Oblomov wrote: »

Brawn are quoted as saying they will allow Jensen the commercial rights to his achievements....no more money as long as he completes his obligations to the team..

But, he's doing that already..

So he needs to do more if he wants more money, If he cant raise the money he thinks he is worth with personal sponsors, why should he expect Brawn to raise the money for him to pay the shortfall?

Oblomov

why should he expect Brawn to raise the money for him to pay the shortfall?

Bring into line with the other leading teams, almost a standard wage for the job.

Jensen took a cut to help the team in a time of need and the team, do nothing for their leading driver after he wins the championship for them.

Sounds like good man-management and ...... I'm very surprised neither he nor his manager appear to have tied in bonus for wins and championship points and the prospect of winning the championship.

Leading conscientious, team motivated driver doing all he can to help the team and gets sh1t on from a great height for all his efforts.

Wonder how much Nico Rosberg is getting for joining the team? Or when he joins the team.

Iron Hide

He's on $8m this year with Williams i think, Doubt he'll get half that at Brawn considering they only offered Jenson $6m

Oblomov

Would you move for a £2mill cut in wages? Even with the promise of a win.

EvilMonkey

Oblomov wrote: »

Bring into line with the other leading teams, almost a standard wage for the job.

He is not a leading driver though. He's WC and still doesn't have a contract and Brawn wont stay a leading teem by throwing money around.

Jensen took a cut to help the team in a time of need and the team, do nothing for their leading driver after he wins the championship for them.

Yes he did and I'm sure the teem were grateful, he also got to keep his F1 drive and given a platform to win from.

Sounds like good man-management and ...... I'm very surprised neither he nor his manager appear to have tied in bonus for wins and championship points and the prospect of winning the championship.

Good teem management would be not overpaying for a driver. Im sure he and his managment realise he is unlikely to win as much next year.

Leading conscientious, team motivated driver doing all he can to help the team and gets sh1t on from a great height for all his efforts.

As far as i can see he is trying to exploit a possible investment in the teem by Merc or their Arab mates. Brawn would be foolish to start throwing money around before deals are signed, and if they were going that way Kimi is supposedly available. I also expect Rosberg to match or outscore Button next year.

Wonder how much Nico Rosberg is getting for joining the team? Or when he joins the team.

Me too, i wounder if he has more personal sponsherp raised than button?

Oblomov

Oh.. wot... McDonalds.... Nico's sponsors

Frank Bullitt

I think we may have seen the last of Kimi with this new deal for Brawn,time will tell i suppose.

Slutmonkey57b

Merc are clearly smarting from McLaren's refusal to allow themselves to be rebranded a german works team, so they've bought Brawn and are bringing in an all German lineup.
Didn't work too well for BMW I seem to recall. Sucks to be Jenson, if he hadn't had his mid-season wobble, he'd be in an undeniable no.1 position in the team, and the McLaren won't suit his driving style at all, not to mention Hamilton sr. attempting to **** him over all day long. Reminiscent of Frank Williams after dumping Damon Hill, he had massive trouble getting decent drivers again. Brawn has at least the benefit of Merc's money to bring in drivers but I wonder how he'll enjoy being back under the thumb of an overbearing owner (Haug)?

Slutmonkey57b

mysterious double post

Iron Hide

Looks like Jensons gonna be at Woking anyway next year.. I wish him all the best and hope the best for him but give a season or two and he'll be fuming at Hamilton JR and SR...

Christ they might aswell go ahead and buy a few shares in Force India while they're at it...

Iron Hide

Gintonious wrote: »

I think we may have seen the last of Kimi with this new deal for Brawn,time will tell i suppose.

With Haug having half of Mercedes-Benz' turnover stuffed in his wallet, Kimi may yet be offered the squillions he was paid for the past couple of seasons.. And i do recall him saying a racewinning car was what he required, constructors champions chassis should do him fine then....

EvilMonkey

I take back what i said about a deal with Kimi already done, could still happen we will see.
I think McLaren move would be wrong for Jenson though.

Chopper888

Red Storm wrote: »

He's on $8m this year with Williams i think, Doubt he'll get half that at Brawn considering they only offered Jenson $6m

Rosberg is on $8.5 million with Williams according to crash.net. Check this link out , it reveals all the current drivers salaries.

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/154093/1/f1_2009_driver_salaries_revealed.html

Slutmonkey57b

I think the sticking point with Jenson and Brawn may not even be the amount of money, it's that Rosberg might be on the same (or more) thanks to his Mercedes connections, which in fairness would hardly be equitable.

Still, a move to McLaren is absolutely the wrong move for him. He should take what he can get at Brawn and leave Kimi to work out if taking a sabbatical is better than taking a paycut to drive for the Sons of Ron again.

frostie500

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

I think the sticking point with Jenson and Brawn may not even be the amount of money, it's that Rosberg might be on the same (or more) thanks to his Mercedes connections, which in fairness would hardly be equitable.

Still, a move to McLaren is absolutely the wrong move for him. He should take what he can get at Brawn and leave Kimi to work out if taking a sabbatical is better than taking a paycut to drive for the Sons of Ron again.

Does Rosberg have any Mercedes connections other then being German? I think this is a similer situation to Hill in 96, the team doesn't have confidence that Button can win consistantly due to his form in the middle of the season and won't offer him a big salery. McLaren on the other hand have a driver in Hamilton that they know can win races/championships and will offer Button a deal with a wage similer to the offer from Brawn but will lace it with incentivies and challenge Button to make his money in prises(similer to the Kimi deal offered.)

Button would do well to pay heed to Hill's last few years when at Arrows and Jordan where he won one race but had a bad car in 97, half of 98 and very little motivation in 99.

Oblomov

The key issue, Mercedes/ Daimler buy into Chrysler US and create a dog..the man behind it Dr. Dieter Zetsche, is not held in high regard in the US for his business acumen. The same man has been behind the buy out of Brawn and the remarks showing his distaste over McLaren building their own sports car. This does not bode well for future relationships if the Brawn car does not continue its winning ways.

Build into that the reaction by Mercedes to the advent of Volkswagen into Euro F3. Merc had been the dominant supplier and suddenly VW come along and take away some of the kudos and the paying customers.

Cosworth on the horizon, Renault still involved and a rumour that McLaren had enquired about the BMW race engine set up. All building an engine to a specific blue print. Cosworth's knowledge base and expertise could be the fly in the F1 engine deals.

The Toro Rosso stable and the brilliance of their designer, Adrian Newey, could be a strong challenger for honours next season.

Mercdes buying into Brawn does not seem to have the promise of success that is associated with the McLaren brand.

Firewalkwithme

Oblomov wrote: »

The Toro Rosso stable and the brilliance of their designer, Adrian Newey, could be a strong challenger for honours next season.

Newey is with Red Bull.

Toro Rosso will be designing their own car next year in Faenza so I doubt it will be up to much.

Oblomov

Red Bull/Torro Rosso are owned by who?

If it's a new car and Newey has had an influence .... watch this space.

His designs won numerous races for Williams, McLaren .. et al. he has not lost that talent.

Firewalkwithme

Oblomov wrote: »

Red Bull/Torro Rosso are owned by who?

If it's a new car and Newey has had an influence .... watch this space.

His designs won numerous races for Williams, McLaren .. et al. he has not lost that talent.

I'm fully aware of the work Newey has done but he won't be involved with Toro Rosso is what I'm saying - they are designing their own chassis next season.

EvilMonkey

Mercdes buying into Brawn does not seem to have the promise of success that is associated with the McLaren brand.

I would be more worried for McLaren than Brawn, If i was to gamble on anyone been successful in F1 it would be Ross Brawn. This is Mercedes first time to work with him its an investment in him as much as anything else. Now the questions for McLaren, Will they find it harder to attract new sponsors/investors? What if the super car is a flop? They could be like Williams in 10 years...

Oblomov

but he won't be involved with Toro Rosso is what I'm saying

And I'm saying, that a guy like that, with his talent, you don't side line when you are employing him. Regardless to the name above the door.

Who ever pays the piper calls the tune.

McLaren, want to be another Ferrari, the road car project financing the race car and Ron Dennis si a very shrewd man.. The conglomerate that is McLaren group

http://www.mclaren.co.uk/

The McLaren MP4−12C is powered by a twin-turbocharged, 3.8 litre 90° V8 engine - the ‘M838T’. This marks the start of a new era in ‘core’ segment sports cars − smaller capacity, lighter weight, higher efficiency and more economical power units. The engine has the highest specific power output in its segment which, when allied to its low weight carbon composite chassis, delivers exemplary power- and torque- to weight ratios.

‘M838T’ is a unique McLaren power unit, developed specifically for the 12C. It is compact, lightweight, very stiff, and offers an uncompromising combination of high performance and good driveability with excellent economy and CO2 emission values.

Firewalkwithme

Oblomov wrote: »

And I'm saying, that a guy like that, with his talent, you don't side line when you are employing him. Regardless to the name above the door.

Who ever pays the piper calls the tune.

He isn't being sidelined - he just simply does not work for Toro Rosso so therefore he won't be involved in the design of their car. He will however be designing next years Red Bull since that is the team he works for. Toro Rosso are only building their own car now that they are being forced to do so because of the rule that customer cars are not allowed next year. If you think that Red Bull are going to have Newey waste his time giving Toro Rosso a dig out during next season then I think you are very much mistaken.

Here's a couple of links for your information:

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2009/11/11/who-is-designing-the-new-toro-rosso/

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/f1/story/0,,3213_5686036,00.html

frostie500

Oblomov wrote: »

And I'm saying, that a guy like that, with his talent, you don't side line when you are employing him. Regardless to the name above the door.

Who ever pays the piper calls the tune.

Since it's inception Toro Rosso has been able to use a customer chassis from Red Bull technologies, from 2010 the FIA has banned this and the team MUST develop it's own chassis. Failure to do so will result in financial penalties as well as possible race bans/dq from the championship, do you really think that Red Bull will allow themselves with presumably a championship challenging car to be put into a position to be punished so heavily

zeris

frostie500 wrote: »

Since it's inception Toro Rosso has been able to use a customer chassis from Red Bull technologies, from 2010 the FIA has banned this and the team MUST develop it's own chassis. Failure to do so will result in financial penalties as well as possible race bans/dq from the championship, do you really think that Red Bull will allow themselves with presumably a championship challenging car to be put into a position to be punished so heavily

I am aware of the new rule for next year but not with the specifics. If the Toro Rosso was heavily influenced by the Newey Red Bull who gets punished? Toro Rosso or Red Bull? Both?

Or could the FIA get all machiavellian and claim the Red Bull was influenced by the Toro Rosso and punish the potentially winning car next year.

Firewalkwithme

zeris wrote: »

I am aware of the new rule for next year but not with the specifics. If the Toro Rosso was heavily influenced by the Newey Red Bull who gets punished? Toro Rosso or Red Bull? Both?

Or could the FIA get all machiavellian and claim the Red Bull was influenced by the Toro Rosso and punish the potentially winning car next year.

None of those situations are going to happen since Toro Rosso are designing and building their own car, with their own design team, in their own factory.

Check the links I posted earlier for details.

frostie500

zeris wrote: »

I am aware of the new rule for next year but not with the specifics. If the Toro Rosso was heavily influenced by the Newey Red Bull who gets punished? Toro Rosso or Red Bull? Both?

Or could the FIA get all machiavellian and claim the Red Bull was influenced by the Toro Rosso and punish the potentially winning car next year.

It would be Red Bull giving Toro Rosso the technology not Toro taking it so the FIA would punish Red Bull. It wouldn't be viewed as a machiavellian punishment either, as it the FIA hadn't set out to undermine or decieve Red Bull. It could on the other hand be seen as a draconian penalty by some if Red Bull was disquallified from F1 for assisting a team that is owned by the same company

Oblomov

I'll bet the e-mails to and fro with the drawings will literally wizz about...

How do you determine who designs what if the two components are visually different.

Having two cars to develop ideas..... and employed by the same man and NOT swopping ideas..... Well, of course not, it's against the rules, Isn't it?

You just wouldn't expect anything like that to happen. Would You?

Firewalkwithme

Oblomov wrote: »

I'll bet the e-mails to and fro with the drawings will literally wizz about...

How do you determine who designs what if the two components are visually different.

Having two cars to develop ideas..... and employed by the same man and NOT swopping ideas..... Well, of course not, it's against the rules, Isn't it?

You just wouldn't expect anything like that to happen. Would You?

I don't doubt that there will be communication between the two teams above and beyond what would happen with two unrelated teams but the point that I am making is that Red Bull is the senior team with better resources and funding so why would they want to waste their time developing parts for the junior team when they could be doing more work on their own designs? They simply wouldn't because it doesn't make any sense to do that. Having a separate design team at Toro Rosso could prove to be a very useful training ground for the Red Bull team and should some particularly bright sparks emerge from Faenza then I wouldn't expect it would be too long before they are promoted to the senior team in much the same way as their driver program is set up to operate.

EDIT: I just want to add that since Toro Rosso is up for sale right now with Red Bull looking to have them offloaded before next season it would not be in their interests to have any Red Bull DNA in next years Toro Rosso in the event that a sale is indeed completed. They need to be able to demonstrate to any potential purchaser that the team is capable of standing on its own two feet without support from Red Bull.

Slutmonkey57b

More likely potential buyers will be swayed by the "did you know this years' car was basically the same as ours and of course, the teams will have been sharing testing data until very recently and of course you'll have noticed at several tracks we were trying out 2010 parts on the cars" argument. Good time to offload, they can't use Torro Rosso in the future, and next year's car stands the best chance of being competitive.

On the other hand, BMW and Toyota and possibly Renault will have teams to flog too.