Unions on the march..

Sizzler

LOL, they cant even agree on where people can take a toilet break :eek::o

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/unions-contradict-each-other-on-strike-1947889.html

wrote:

SCHOOL managers are angry over conflicting advice given to principals by their unions about Tuesday's national strike.

The Teachers Union of Ireland (TUI) has told its members, including principals, that they cannot enter the school premises for any reason for the 24-hour period. The union represents teachers in vocational schools, community schools and colleges. Striking TUI members won't be able to answer a call of nature in their own schools. According to a notice on the union's website: "Tea breaks or bathrooms breaks must be taken elsewhere."

The Association of Secondary Teachers in Ireland (ASTI) -- which represents teachers in voluntary secondary and community schools -- has told its principals they can enter schools for a short period so pupils who arrive are facilitated in safely leaving.

The Irish Vocational Education Association, which represents management of community colleges and vocational schools, is seeking urgent legal advice about the advice of the TUI which represents teachers in its sector.

General secretary Michael Moriarty said the Vocational Education Committee (VEC) sector was being discriminated against as principals in voluntary secondary schools were allowed by the ASTI to enter the schools for a short period.

The school managers are also concerned about non-union staff who arrive for work as they cannot be legally locked out.

But TUI general secretary Peter MacMenamin defended the union's stance and suggested that non-unionised staff seek the advice of their employers, the VEC.

At primary level, Educate Together has told multi-denominational schools that boards must arrange to open the school for employees not on strike.

mikemac

They want to picket the school yet saunder in for tea breaks and toilet breaks?

No chance

Rantan

boooo....hiss...do ye're bloody jobs.....wouldn't it be a terrible shame if the weather was like it is today when they stike !!

baalthor

It's easier to strike when you have a permanent pensionable guaranteed for life job.

But the unions need to recognise that many employers find it more efficient and cost effective to offer jobs that require a high degree of flexibility from the employee and that can be terminated by the employer after a fixed amount of time, like this one for example ...

Sizzler

baalthor wrote: »

It's easier to strike when you have a permanent pensionable guaranteed for life job.

But the unions need to recognise that many employers find it more efficient and cost effective to offer jobs that require a high degree of flexibility from the employee and that can be terminated by the employer after a fixed amount of time, like this one for example ...

I think that pretty much sums it up, thanks for posting

murphaph

Please God it will absolutely bucket down on them.

Shea O'Meara

Congratulations to Fianna Fail for successfully shifting focus away from themselves.

jimmmy

Its the unions we are talking about, and no matter who was in power rest assured they are selfish enough to go marching on strike / hold us to blackmail , in order to protect their record salaries.

irish_bob

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

Congratulations to Fianna Fail for successfully shifting focus away from themselves.

yawn

Shea O'Meara

From someone constantly banging on about the same point...that's kinda funny

dresden8

Rantan wrote: »

I dont believe that there are masses and masses of richies sitting on billions of €'s that we can flood the gov coffers with.

I suppose Ansbacher, Bev Flynn's offshore accounts scam, the tax amnesties et al just passed you by.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/press/defaulters/index.html

Stubbs gazette? No?

Rantan

dresden8 wrote: »

I suppose Ansbacher, Bev Flynn's offshore accounts scam, the tax amnesties et al just passed you by.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/press/defaulters/index.html

Stubbs gazette? No?

Why do you think that smart arse???
Do you think Ireland is the only country in the world with tax evaders and we are in this financial mess because some people dont pay tax? I'm not a tax expert but I'm sure other countries have similar tax schemes and problems but are not in the same mess, granted some of ours are excessive and need to be abolished/reviewed, but like everthing else are only part of the problem

dresden8

Rantan wrote: »

Why do you think that smart arse???
Do you think Ireland is the only country in the world with tax evaders and we are in this financial mess because some people dont pay tax? I'm not a tax expert but I'm sure other countries have similar tax schemes and problems but are not in the same mess, granted some of ours are excessive and need to be abolished/reviewed, but like everthing else are only part of the problem

Those of us old enough to remember the 80's remember "there was no money".

Only there was, the people in the know didn't want to pay their share and fixed it so they didn't have to.

This time the people in the know not only doing the same thing but they are plundering the public purse at the same time.

Plus ca change, and all that.

jimmmy

dresden8 wrote: »

This time the people in the know not only doing the same thing but they are plundering the public purse at the same time.

"Plundering" is a strong word to use about the govt + social partners, who were the ones in charge of "the public purse" during the past decade or more.

dresden8

jimmmy wrote: »

"Plundering" is a strong word to use about the govt + social partners, who were the ones in charge of "the public purse" during the past decade or more.

Now now jimmmy, you know I meant NAMA.

Yes it's ECB money, but we're on the hook for repayments, and we'll never get to see the cash itself.

Rantan

dresden8 wrote: »

Those of us old enough to remember the 80's remember "there was no money".

Only there was, the people in the know didn't want to pay their share and fixed it so they didn't have to.

This time the people in the know not only doing the same thing but they are plundering the public purse at the same time.

Plus ca change, and all that.

I lived through the 80's, yes you are right, but I will reiterate my point, they are not soley responsible for this recession and punishing them with higher taxes penalties will not solve it. Yes they should pay their fair share as a matter of course anyway and be punished if they don't, but in the context of your argument that off shore accounts et al caused the recession I disagree. All sectors of community need to contribute as much as possible: private sector, public, tax evaders/avoiders, self employed, retired etc etc

dresden8

Rantan wrote: »

they are not soley responsible for this recession and punishing them with higher taxes penalties will not solve it. Yes they should pay their fair share as a matter of course anyway and be punished if they don't,

That is no reason to rule out unilaterally taking money off them.

The 25 billion will not be found solely from the public sector. It will not be found solely from social welfare recipients. It will not be found solely from PAYE workers. It will not be found solely from the rich.

Guess which of the above categories the government has decided against finding any money from.

Yes, I guessed, maybe you didn't, the rich.

Again.

As I said before, plus ca change.

Rantan

dresden8 wrote: »

That is no reason to rule out unilaterally taking money off them.

The 25 billion will not be found solely from the public sector. It will not be found solely from social welfare recipients. It will not be found solely from PAYE workers. It will not be found solely from the rich.

Guess which of the above categories the government has decided against finding any money from.

Yes, I guessed, maybe you didn't, the rich.

Again.

As I said before, plus ca change.

Are you saying the wealthy dont pay any taxes?? Sounds like it...? We are generally agreeing on most points but this thread is about public sector unions striking, not about how much money can be stripped from the wealthy. I say again, I agree the wealthy need to contribute more than they do but that is not the answer to all our problems.
Hypothethical situation: The government introduce a new tax rate of say >50% for people earning over €150k in the budget. Everyone earning >€150k stops work and takes to the streets in strikes, then we should have this argument in a thread titled "earners of €150k on the march." and i would agree fully with you. Its the governments responsibility to set reasonable tax rates.

MsOkidoki

"It's easier to strike when you have a permanent pensionable guaranteed for life job"

I'm a PS worker who can't get a mortgage as I don't have a permanent job or a job which is guaranteed for life, nor does it look like I will be getting one any time soon! 5years in Univerity to cover for people who are sick and now my wages should be compared to the private sector AVERAGE! I worked in low paid and unskilled jobs before deciding to return to University to increase my pay. Most of us are just scraping by, I don't know many PS workers earning big bucks.

erictheviking

murphaph wrote: »

Please God it will absolutely bucket down on them.

Miaow! Claws out again!:) Thats just typical of the begrudgers and whingers on here. I for one hope the strike gives the govt. the kick up the arse they need.
The added bonus for jimmmy et al is all those 300000 PS workers not getting paid for the day(A lot of them will be providing cover for free), he must be loving it seeing as we all know he personally pays for the lot of them:rolleyes:
I won't be passing any pickets that day.
PS I'm sure it won't affect the begrudgers on boards as they will be sitting at their keyboards playing 'keyboard warrior' all day! All talk and no action!

Poccington

erictheviking wrote: »

Miaow! Claws out again!:) Thats just typical of the begrudgers and whingers on here. I for one hope the strike gives the govt. the kick up the arse they need.

What kick up the arse do they need?

We, the Public Sector, are costing too much. As a result, cuts are inevitable... No amount of cribbing from Union leaders is going to change that.

erictheviking

Poccington wrote: »

What kick up the arse do they need?

We, the Public Sector, are costing too much. As a result, cuts are inevitable... No amount of cribbing from Union leaders is going to change that.

So you don't think FF and their buddies are to blame for anything?
Everything they have done in the last couple of years has been a massive balls up!:)
They were doling out income tax rate cuts purely to win votes and then loading stealth taxes on us to make up the shortfall. Now that the stamp duty/vrt etc. etc. windfalls have dried up they have decided on a 'divide and conquer' policy by attempting to blame the whole lot of it on PS workers and the ordinary working man by saying their all being paid too much while crooked bankers and fat cats are being given massive pay-offs and pensions. Its working nicely too;)! Everybody thinks the recession is the civil services fault.:D
I remember a certain Mr. Haughey telling us that we were all 'living beyond our means'. Holy ****! in the inner city flats complex where I grew up we were struggling to put food on the table!:mad::mad::mad:
Even the simple things they have got wrong. e.g. our nearest neighbour cuts their VAT rate, what do the bright sparks in power do? They raise the VAT rate here leading to millions lost from people going shopping over the border. I for one have had enough of fat cats taking the piss!

Dozen Wicked Words

Poccington wrote: »

As a result, cuts are inevitable... No amount of cribbing from Union leaders is going to change that.

I would imagine cuts are inevitable, and that the Unions know that. I think the idea of the strike is to try and limit the severity of the cuts, and defend allowances for weekends,nights etc. Bargaining from a supposed position of strength to lessen the blow.

"Cribbing" is not the same as attempting to get the best deal for their members. I have stated on other threads previously I have no love for the leadership of my professions Union but 85% of the membership voted in favour of supporting the day of action and I hope it does give the government pause for thought about next months budget.

Poccington

erictheviking wrote: »

So you don't think FF and their buddies are to blame for anything?
Everything they have done in the last couple of years has been a massive balls up!:)
They were doling out income tax rate cuts purely to win votes and then loading stealth taxes on us to make up the shortfall. Now that the stamp duty/vrt etc. etc. windfalls have dried up they have decided on a 'divide and conquer' policy by attempting to blame the whole lot of it on PS workers and the ordinary working man by saying their all being paid too much while crooked bankers and fat cats are being given massive pay-offs and pensions. Its working nicely too;)! Everybody thinks the recession is the civil services fault.:D
I remember a certain Mr. Haughey telling us that we were all 'living beyond our means'. Holy ****! in the inner city flats complex where I grew up we were struggling to put food on the table!:mad::mad::mad:
Even the simple things they have got wrong. e.g. our nearest neighbour cuts their VAT rate, what do the bright sparks in power do? They raise the VAT rate here leading to millions lost from people going shopping over the border. I for one have had enough of fat cats taking the piss!

So apart from all of the above which is quite irrelevant to what I said, do you disagree with people saying the PS wage bill is no longer sustainable?

BTW, you're not the only person that struggled with money growing up.

irish_bob

erictheviking wrote: »

So you don't think FF and their buddies are to blame for anything?
Everything they have done in the last couple of years has been a massive balls up!:)
They were doling out income tax rate cuts purely to win votes and then loading stealth taxes on us to make up the shortfall. Now that the stamp duty/vrt etc. etc. windfalls have dried up they have decided on a 'divide and conquer' policy by attempting to blame the whole lot of it on PS workers and the ordinary working man by saying their all being paid too much while crooked bankers and fat cats are being given massive pay-offs and pensions. Its working nicely too;)! Everybody thinks the recession is the civil services fault.:D
I remember a certain Mr. Haughey telling us that we were all 'living beyond our means'. Holy ****! in the inner city flats complex where I grew up we were struggling to put food on the table!:mad::mad::mad:
Even the simple things they have got wrong. e.g. our nearest neighbour cuts their VAT rate, what do the bright sparks in power do? They raise the VAT rate here leading to millions lost from people going shopping over the border. I for one have had enough of fat cats taking the piss!

increasing public sector wages and wellfare to the level its at was an integral part of the goverment cock up , both were tottally financed by the short term phoney property boom

erictheviking

Poccington wrote: »

So apart from all of the above which is quite irrelevant to what I said, do you disagree with people saying the PS wage bill is no longer sustainable?

BTW, you're not the only person that struggled with money growing up.

I know only too well I wasn't the only person to struggle financially back in the 70's and 80's. Half of Dublin was on the breadline. These people had no assets apart from their job if they were lucky enough to have one. Meanwhile the government who were voted in to serve the people served the fat cats instead and not a lot has changed since then.

BTW I think everything I said was relevent. You asked 'what kick up the arse do the govt. need?'
The PS needs to make cuts, thats fair enough but contrary to what the PS bashers on here say, most of those workers are not on a kings ransom and work bloody hard. i've got friends who have told me that if they have to take another pay cut they may as well go on the dole. As usual the govt. will bring in cuts that will benefit the rich and kick the poor in the bollix.

thebman

erictheviking wrote: »

I know only too well I wasn't the only person to struggle financially back in the 70's and 80's. Half of Dublin was on the breadline. These people had no assets apart from their job if they were lucky enough to have one. Meanwhile the government who were voted in to serve the people served the fat cats instead and not a lot has changed since then.

BTW I think everything I said was relevent. You asked 'what kick up the arse do the govt. need?'
The PS needs to make cuts, thats fair enough but contrary to what the PS bashers on here say, most of those workers are not on a kings ransom and work bloody hard. i've got friends who have told me that if they have to take another pay cut they may as well go on the dole. As usual the govt. will bring in cuts that will benefit the rich and kick the poor in the bollix.

The things you are posting are completely irrelevant to the 20 billion we don't have. It really doesn't matter if you had nothing growing up or anything like that.

Nor does it matter that most people aren't earning a fortune in the public sector.

The wages are unsustainable at present level, either people need to be let go or wage cuts are necessary.

Lots of people seem to favor redundancies it seems from listening to public sector workers on here. I guess they figure the odds of it being them picked are low.

Riskymove

thebman wrote: »

The things you are posting are completely irrelevant to the 20 billion we don't have. It really doesn't matter if you had nothing growing up or anything like that.

just for clarity its now gonna be around €16bn

Lots of people seem to favor redundancies it seems from listening to public sector workers on here. I guess they figure the odds of it being them picked are low.

actually I think most prefer a reduction in numbers from the public service, but not necessarily redundancies

there was a quite significant increase in numbers especially at certain levels

taken globally (i.e. 330,000) you can reduce the workforce quite dramatically through "natural wastage"

An Bord Snip proposed 17,000 or so over the next couple of years

Stark

Riskymove wrote: »

just for clarity its now gonna be around €16bn

That's €16bn if the Government achieves €4bn in cuts I presume?

Riskymove

Stark wrote: »

That's €16bn if the Government achieves €4bn in cuts I presume?

sort of, the €4bn savings planned for 2010 is over all spending not just the public pay bill

its been clarified that the measures already taken (pension levy and so on)will save around €2.3bn in 2010, reducing the Pay bill to around €17bn

The Governemnt is also planning, as per above, savings of at least €1.3bn which will mean it will be down to around €16bn

there is obviously a certain proportion of that which is circular money that is not clean expenditure like paye prsi etc...and the levy is also part of this so while the overall gross figure may not show such a significant decrease, in reality there are savings.