Workers Walk Today

Bits_n_Bobs

Any idea how many of the workers are out strolling around our cities today on their day of protest?

Was listening to Pat Kenny at about 10.15 this morning and he interviewed two teachers who were working today, but were on a 'break' so they decided to go join in the walk. How can a teacher take a break at 10.15 on a Friday morning?

Didn't listen long to it as some union person annoyed the pants off me nearly as much as mini-lenihan, but of the walking workers interviewed none of them seemed to be from the private sector?

Wheety

The march doesn't start until 2:30.

ronkmonster

Are they working until lunchtime and just not going back?

I've not been following news lately

Bandit12

2.30 start. Be there or be square

jimmmy

The statistics shown that public sector workers, for some strange reason, take three times more "sickies" on Mondays than on Fridays. I wonder how many "sickies" will be taken this afternoon ?

LoLth

jimmmy wrote: »

The statistics shown that public sector workers, for some strange reason, take three times more "sickies" on Mondays than on Fridays. I wonder how many "sickies" will be taken this afternoon ?

which statistics? do these also apply to the private sector also? linky?

but good point. I wonder how many protesters, whether its a nama march or ictu march or anti war march etc, ring in sick instead of saying " I was out marching" . would seem to put a dent in their devotion to the cause if they feel the need to lie to their employer.

Wheety

The Public Sector workers have to take this afternoon off as annual leave.

If the strike goes ahead on the 24th, they won't get paid.

Bits_n_Bobs

Wheety wrote: »

The Public Sector workers have to take this afternoon off as annual leave.

Hadn't realised that it was compulsory

jimmmy

LoLth wrote: »

which statistics? do these also apply to the private sector also? linky?

Thanks to the poster who made post no. 27 on the thread "Average sick in the Irish Civil Service is comparable to other countries " ( page three of Politics, Irish economy ).



So its not work related stress thats causing it.

N. B. I am just acknowledging where the graph came from and all the debate about public sector sickies. The statistics on sickies in the private sector show far fewer sickies, but its unclear if as high a proportion occur on a Monday...it would be interesting to see that too.

LoLth

interesting graph.

Just two comments:

1. that is sick leave commencing on a monday, not necessarily sickies pulled on a monday and the difference can be quite important when viewing the apparent discrepency with the rest of the week. If you catch a flu on saturday or sunday and feel like crap you ring in to work on the monday (if you are still ill) and take a sick day so a sickness caught on a saturday , sunday or monday that last longer than a day will have sick leave commence on teh monday. this could be significant enough to skew the results. Though yes, in both sectors I would imagine that single day "sickies" are prevelant on a monday.

2. Most people who feel ill on a Friday will do to work and push through it knowing that they have the weekend to recover. also there is the natural elation of the weekend (the friday feeling) that can reduce the feeling of illness.

as I said before, its an interesting question and I'd love to know how many half day sickies are called.

NewDubliner

jimmmy wrote: »

The statistics on sickies in the private sector show far fewer sickies, but its unclear if as high a proportion occur on a Monday...it would be interesting to see that too.

More innunedo masquerading as facts. Why am I not surprised?

A 'sicky' is an instance of uncertified sick leave taken for dishonest reasons.

The statistics you're quoting are, for the most part, not for 'sickies' but for 'certified sick leave'. The person has been certified as unavailable for work, usually by a private sector, self-employed, doctor (the kind of person you usually admire).

The number of 'sickies' is an unknown fraction of the uncertified sick leave (10% of all sick leave), a reasonable portion of which, in fairness would have been taken for genuine reasons of minor illness.

It's very unlikely that uncertified sick leave would be granted for a half-day on a Friday afternoon and quite implausible that anyone would get a cert for that.

hawker

Great to see some private sector workers joining in on the march today. A united stance against these imcompetent fools running our country.

Shea O'Meara

Yes. It shows not everybody is falling for the 'them and us' (public/private) smoke screen instigated by the government and their followers.

Wishbone Ash

Wheety wrote: »

The Public Sector workers have to take this afternoon off as annual leave.

If the strike goes ahead on the 24th, they won't get paid.

Many of those who were marching today are Public Sector shift workers (e.g. nurses, Gardai, fire fighters, paramedics etc.) and are either on a day off or will be working tonight when most of the country will be tucked up in bed.

I don't understand the fuss and confusion about whether they are paid or not on the 24th (assuming they are rostered to work). No-one gets paid by an employer while on strike. It's a non-issue.

jimmmy wrote: »

The statistics shown that public sector workers, for some strange reason, take three times more "sickies" on Mondays than on Fridays

LoLth wrote: »

2. Most people who feel ill on a Friday will do to work and push through it knowing that they have the weekend to recover. also there is the natural elation of the weekend (the friday feeling) that can reduce the feeling of illness

The reason why more sick days are taken on a Monday compared to Friday is very simple. If those who work a Monday to Friday shift, go sick on Friday, they are required to have a medical certificate for the time they are absent until resumption of duty. Therefore, a person who intends to resume work on Monday will be required to have a Medical Certificate for Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

On the other hand, if taking a Monday off sick can be deemed to be an uncertified sick day (if applicable) or will require only a one day's Certificate to cover it (presuming, of course that the employee intends to return on the Tuesday).

Amhran Nua

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

Yes. It shows not everybody is falling for the 'them and us' (public/private) smoke screen instigated by the government and their followers.

We're in hock up to our eyeballs and sinking fast. Taxation cannot in any way cover the shortfall, so that just leaves cuts. I've no sympathy for the government while they scramble to fix the mess they caused, but to deny the mess exists is not a rational perspective.

wicklowmale

The 'Them and us' attitude has been created by the public sector themselves, they want more money whenever the economy is doing well (which is a realistic), but when things are getting tighter and tighter they will not take cuts or expects redundancy.

The private sector, even those in unions, understand that when things get tough to expect (but not like) cuts etc.

The public sector said there counterparts in the private sector came out in support, probably due to the fact that their family member works for them.

Realisticly the economy is crashing, whether caused by the banks, government etc is not the issue at present, the country is not making enough money to keep everything going at the speed it has been going for the last decade or two.

There needs to be change in the way things are run, period.

Social welfare needs to change, you're better off on benefit than working, i was off work sick for 8 months, earning more instead of working full time. This is wrong! Benefits are mainly for the short term not to give you a better standard of living.

Public Sector payroll bill for the yr is way too much for the number of ppl employed.

Health Service, although has fantastic ppl working in the frontline staff is run by burecrats and needs to be reformed.

If ppl can not understand this then they need to wake up, it is a opinion held by IBEC, economists and business ppl everywhere.

I would never work for the public sector for the obvious reason, been told by fat cats (union leaders) what to do and what jobs u can and cant do.

bbam

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Therefore, a person who intends to resume work on Monday will be required to have a Medical Certificate for Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

I think you're wrong there... Medical certificates can only be issued for the time the employee is unavailable for work. If this only the Friday then so be it. There is no need to be certified on the Saturday & Sunday.

If the employee never works Saturday or Sunday what would the implication of them not having a medical certificate ?? NONE

wicklowmale

Anyone who works knows that you don't need a sick not for sat and sun if you don't work those days, obviously if you are and u sick you will need one.

I can't believe this is even been discussed, this is so basic.

Wishbone Ash

bbam wrote: »

I think you're wrong there... Medical certificates can only be issued for the time the employee is unavailable for work. If this only the Friday then so be it. There is no need to be certified on the Saturday & Sunday.

If the employee never works Saturday or Sunday what would the implication of them not having a medical certificate ?? NONE

I work in staff administration and part of my duties are dealing with any medical certs for our 600 staff. The basic rules are that any staff reporting sick are deemed to be out sick until they return. Those staff who work Mon to Fri are required to have a cert for 3 days if they go sick on Fri and return on Mon.

I somehow think that I would have had heard complaints about this over the past 22 years if I was seeking certs that weren't required (bearing in mind that the staff are 99% unionised).

wicklowmale

I don't know what type of company you work for but that has to be the greatest load of **** i ever heard.

So if i sick on friday, but return monday. Are you seriously saying i need a cert?

If you don't work Sat or Sun you not OUT.
How could you be out if you not meant to be in?

Come on if you going to comment on something keep it real or if it sounds daft, leave it out.

Wishbone Ash

wicklowmale wrote: »

I don't know what type of company you work for but that has to be the greatest load of **** i ever heard.

Well it happens to be the largest employer in the state!

So if i sick on friday, but return monday. Are you seriously saying i need a cert?

Yes. One can't go from an uncertified day sick to a day off. Perhaps it's different in other sectors.

Similarly, one can't go on annual leave following an uncertified sick day.

Come on if you going to comment on something keep it real or if it sounds daft, leave it out.

So you think my job and the protocols I have to follow aren't real?

dearg lady

There was a particular public sector job I had a few years ago where we sometimes had to et certified for Sat and Sun, even though our working week was Monday to Friday. Bit weird. Sat and Sun were always counted as sick days if you were sick over the weekend, making it appear like you'd taken more sick day than ya really had!

ghost_ie

wicklowmale wrote: »

Health Service, although has fantastic ppl working in the frontline staff is run by burecrats and needs to be reformed.

This is true, but we all know that when it comes to job cuts it will be the frontline staff on average pay who will be let go, not the burocrats on very high wages.

bbam

Wishbone Ash..
May I ask then if there was a scenario where I was certified only the Friday and returned on the Monday what would the implication be??

I've directly managed people on a range of working patterns and to be honest that isn't a common policy.

S.L.F

bbam wrote: »

Wishbone Ash..
May I ask then if there was a scenario where I was certified only the Friday and returned on the Monday what would the implication be??

Sick 3 days Friday, Saturday and Sunday

Public service staff are deemed to work a 7 day week that is why it seems their sick days are far more than the Private service.

boodlesdoodles

bbam wrote: »

Wishbone Ash..
May I ask then if there was a scenario where I was certified only the Friday and returned on the Monday what would the implication be??

I've directly managed people on a range of working patterns and to be honest that isn't a common policy.

So what you're saying is, you're only out sick on the Friday and you return to work on Monday, then the cert would only be needed for Friday. The scenario in public service is if you're out sick on a Fri and don't return until Tues, i.e. being out sick on Mon as well, then your sick days are Fri, Sat, Sun and Mon. That is why it seems public service take so many sick days, because their HR count Sat & Sun's as working days.

aftermn

Yes things need to change, but lets have equitable change.

current public sector wages were agreed during the boom times and are now ahead of the curve. These wage agreements were not the only spending agreements made at that time by government.

If there is to be equity, should not all agreements made during the boom times be subject to review?

Storage for the voting machines could be bought cheaper now. Office space for the abandoned de-centralisation, PPP's, consultants, advisors etc.

Yet the only unilateral downsizing being considered is in the public sector wage bill.

I will accept a 5% reduction if all other contratcs agreed at that time also see such reduction, otherwise, P1ss off.

Wishbone Ash

bbam wrote: »

Wishbone Ash..
May I ask then if there was a scenario where I was certified only the Friday and returned on the Monday what would the implication be??

I've directly managed people on a range of working patterns and to be honest that isn't a common policy.

It would depend on the grade. Officers and non-officers are treated differently.

If a non-officer certified Friday but not Sat and Sun, I would contact them and request a cert for Sat and Sun. If this cert doesn't appear after an agreed period. they will be docked 2 days pay so effectively it doesn't happen. All Mon to Fri staff will be aware of the requirement to submit a 3 day cert. It may happen to new staff who aren't tuned into the system but we would give them a few days to get it in.

If an officer grade submits a cert for Fri but not Sat and Sun there are several options.

1. Request the cert for the two outstanding days.
2. Get them to pay back two days.
3. Deduct 2 days from annual leave allocation.

Again, it's very rare for it to occur. 99% of staff will submit the cert for 3 days.

Hopefully now people will understand why the number of sick days on a Friday are much lower than on Monday.

S.L.F wrote: »

Public service staff are deemed to work a 7 day week that is why it seems their sick days are far more than the Private service.

Precisely.

Similarly a staff member who goes on two weeks annual leave following an uncertified sick day is deemed to be ill for 15 days (1+7+7) but the media would never let that get in the way of a good story about PS sick days.

jimmmy

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Hopefully now people will understand why the number of sick days on a Friday are much lower than on Monday.

Absolutely nothing to do with Monday Morning blues or hangover ? :rolleyes:

Wishbone Ash

Another thing to bear in mind is that many public sector workers such as Gardai, prison Officers, nurses, firefighters, paramedics etc. are injured in the line of duty. Absences caused by such injuries are included in the "ordinary" sick leave figures.

jimmmy wrote: »

Monday Morning blues or hangover

Unfortunately the staff who may have the above manage to submit a medical certificate signed and stamped by a (private sector self-employed) medical officer!

If someone with a good record submits an appropriate cert, there's very little that can be done about it.

jimmmy

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Another thing to bear in mind is that many public sector workers such as Gardai, prison Officers, nurses, firefighters, paramedics etc. are injured in the line of duty. Absences caused by such injuries are included in the "ordinary" sick leave figures.
.

And people in the private sector - farmers, fishermen, construction workers, van drivers, security workers, doormen etc never get hurt or injured in the course of work ?

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Unfortunately the staff who may have the above manage to submit a medical certificate signed and stamped by a (private sector self-employed) medical officer!

If someone with a good record submits an appropriate cert, there's very little that can be done about it.

As everyone knows, go to your doctor with a cough or headache or backache + look for a cert for a day or two, and most doctors will feel they have to give you a cert. Not that all sick days are certified. It does not explain why the rate of sick days claimed is far higher in the public service than the private sector, and why almost three times more sickies are taken on a Monday compared to a Friday.