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Workers Walk Today

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    #62
    irish_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭irish_bob


    bbam wrote: »
    Hello !!!
    We already tax folks earning €50K+ :rolleyes:

    I'm sorry but Benchmarking was a bad process and was bad for the country, boom or bust in the economy. Why isn't it rolled out now to drive back public sector wages in line with private..
    We have to shed the notion that public sector wages/conditions can only be brought up, there has to be some scope to reduce costs when times are hard, any reasonable person would see this...

    Also, there is nothing special about nurses, guards or anyone else in the public sector, they're workers doing a job, some do it well and plenty do it crap, just like private sector workers....

    I can't wait to see these same folks loosing their jobs because they wouldn't take a pay cut, they might see what it's like in the real world similar to the 165K private sector workers who are out of work in the last 12 months.

    When the idiots start talking about what the private sector did to the country we always have FAS to remind us of what a well run institution is like :p



    i have a theory as to why nurses have such a uniquely special place in the heart of so many irish people , why they are the most sacred of sacred cows

    traditionally irish women have worked as nurses when they have had to emmigrate and a large number have worked as nurse here in ireland too , too criticise a nurse is to bad mouth your own mother


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    #63
    irish_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭irish_bob


    uncle_sam_ie wrote: »
    No, they don't BTW. You're the type that will come into casualty hat in hand wanting the best care or be calling for the fire service to help save your house. But then demand that they pay for what the private sector has done to this country.

    yes they do earn on average 50 k per year and as ive said before many times , the challenges facing fire fighters , police or nurses in this country are no different to those facing thier counterparts in manchester , madrid or munich , the difference being the nurses , guards and firefighters earn at least 30% more over here


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    #64
    uncle_sam_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,191 ✭✭✭uncle_sam_ie


    bbam wrote: »
    Hello !!!


    Also, there is nothing special about nurses:p
    Except when you come out of surgery and need a professional that has had four years at university and years of experience looking after you.


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    #65
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,025 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    uncle_sam_ie wrote: »
    Except when you come out of surgery and need a professional that has had four years at university and years of experience looking after you.
    Are irish nurses better than British or German ones? Nurses used to learn on the job-the notion of a degree in nursing is a new one anyway.

    There are still crap nurses, like in any occupation!


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    #66
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    uncle_sam_ie wrote: »
    Except when you come out of surgery and need a professional that has had four years at university and years of experience looking after you.

    You know it takes many professionals that have spent usually at least 4 years in university and have years of experience for you to post that comment on this site but for some reason your obsessed with lumping those people in with the people that caused the problems in the economy :pac:


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    #67
    uncle_sam_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,191 ✭✭✭uncle_sam_ie


    murphaph wrote: »

    There are still crap nurses, like in any occupation!
    If we keep going the way we are going, then your going to to see a lot more "crap" nurses with questionable training from the likes of the Congo, because the good nurses will emigrate out of muppet land. Good Doctors will not like working here under that system either. Most of you here understand supply and demand right. There is a huge demand for nurse's world wide they will go. Then getting sick here will not be an option.


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    #68
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    uncle_sam_ie wrote: »
    If we keep going the way we are going, then your going to to see a lot more "crap" nurses with questionable training from the likes of the Congo, because the good nurses will emigrate out of muppet land. Good Doctors will not like working here under that system either. Most of you here understand supply and demand right. There is a huge demand for nurse's world wide they will go. Then getting sick here will not be an option.

    Where can they go to to get equivalent high wages they get here?


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    #69
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    uncle_sam_ie wrote: »
    If we keep going the way we are going, then your going to to see a lot more "crap" nurses with questionable training from the likes of the Congo, because the good nurses will emigrate out of muppet land. Good Doctors will not like working here under that system either. Most of you here understand supply and demand right. There is a huge demand for nurse's world wide they will go. Then getting sick here will not be an option.

    We don't have to cut nurses wages to nothing, they just have to be at the norm compared to other countries. The priority should be on making the systems more efficient and making pen pushers redundant to make systems more efficient and eliminate the possibility of human error. Those people can then be let go or retrained to be more useful to the health care system.


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    #70
    uncle_sam_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,191 ✭✭✭uncle_sam_ie


    gurramok wrote: »
    Where can they go to to get equivalent high wages they get here?
    Three to four years here,http://www.nursinginsaudi.net/index.php?item_id=7481&gclid=CP37jJXk-50CFYIA4wodX120oQ, then on to Australia were you could buy a house out right with the money made. With a much lower cost of living, SIMILAR pay and a SUMMER. If they start getting payed peanuts here you really think they wouldn't go.


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    #71
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    uncle_sam_ie wrote: »
    Three to four years here,http://www.nursinginsaudi.net/index.php?item_id=7481&gclid=CP37jJXk-50CFYIA4wodX120oQ, then on to Australia were you could buy a house out right with the money made. With a much lower cost of living, SIMILAR pay and a SUMMER. If they start getting payed peanuts here you really think they wouldn't go.

    What's the salary in Saudi and Aus?

    It don't say.


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    #72
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,025 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Saudi Arabia? Where they aren't allowed to drive? Australia will only need so many nurses.

    Anyway, how come all the hard done by nurses in Britain and Germany aren't all on the boat to Aus right now seeing as they are paid so terribly?


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    #73
    uncle_sam_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,191 ✭✭✭uncle_sam_ie


    thebman wrote: »
    We don't have to cut nurses wages to nothing, they just have to be at the norm compared to other countries. The priority should be on making the systems more efficient and making pen pushers redundant to make systems more efficient and eliminate the possibility of human error. Those people can then be let go or retrained to be more useful to the health care system.
    I totally agree about pen pushers. The system is top heavy. But, Nurse's here are getting payed pretty much the same as every other western country especially when you take into a count the cost of living here. The claim the the average wage is 50K is wrong. My wife would be near 50K but she is not average. She is specialized with an academic degree in intensive care, and has 18 years experience. A ward nurse with less experience would earn a lot less. She is already doing over time because of staff shortages. Things will get worse here if nurses start emigrating, thats guaranteed.


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    #74
    uncle_sam_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,191 ✭✭✭uncle_sam_ie


    murphaph wrote: »
    Anyway, how come all the hard done by nurses in Britain and Germany aren't all on the boat to Aus right now seeing as they are paid so terribly?

    Because they're not paid so terribly as you claim.


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    #75
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,025 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    uncle_sam_ie wrote: »
    Because they're not paid so terribly as you claim.
    No, they're just paid a good deal less than in Ireland. You are obviously totally biased-you're wife IS a nurse on 50k and you clearly don't think it's a very good salary <shakes head>

    Edit: You are clearly ONLY concerned with you and your family's welfare and don't give a stuff about society in general because you earlier said:
    So, tax anyone who earners over 50,000.
    ...and now we found out your missus earns a shade under this threshold! laughable.


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    #76
    uncle_sam_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,191 ✭✭✭uncle_sam_ie


    murphaph wrote: »

    ...and now we found out your missus earns a shade under this threshold! laughable.
    Whats laughable is you blaming her for getting us into this mess and expecting her to take the brunt of the pain to get us out. She has already taken a pay cut this year. All she and nurses like her are asking for is a fare deal. And, by the way she could earn more in the UK if she wanted to. Base pay stats are misleading.


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    #77
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,025 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    uncle_sam_ie wrote: »
    Whats laughable is you blaming her for getting us into this mess and expecting her to take the brunt of the pain to get us out. She has already taken a pay cut this year. All she and nurses like her are asking for is a fare deal. And, by the way she could earn more in the UK if she wanted to. Base pay stats are misleading.
    Why doesn't she go to the UK then? You are the one claiming that all our nurses will up sticks and leave for better money-the UK is a short hop away so why aren't they all over there now?

    You are taking this all too personally. Show me where on earth I blamed your wife for "getting us into this mess" for God's sake!

    The fact is our country is broke and we can't afford to pay your wife what she's been earning up until now. If she wants to leave she can leave and look after herself and forget about the now unemployed souls who've been paying her wages and who now need solidarity from her and from all public servants.


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    #78
    uncle_sam_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,191 ✭✭✭uncle_sam_ie


    murphaph wrote: »
    Why doesn't she go to the UK then? You are the one claiming that all our nurses will up sticks and leave for better money-the UK is a short hop away so why aren't they all over there now?

    You are taking this all too personally. Show me where on earth I blamed your wife for "getting us into this mess" for God's sake!

    The fact is our country is broke and we can't afford to pay your wife what she's been earning up until now. If she wants to leave she can leave and look after herself and forget about the now unemployed souls who've been paying her wages and who now need solidarity from her and from all public servants.
    If this country can't afford professional medical staff then don't expect high level care. Expect the third world model. It's as simple as that. There seems to be plenty of billions for the banks though. Although, she could earn more in the UK but I don't want to live there. The UK is the last place I'd go. But,Saudi and then Australia,( and I've lived in both before) I'd go in a heart beat. If they cut her pay again she's all for it.
    We'll see how it goes in the next month. We won't be alone that's for sure.


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    #79
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,025 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    uncle_sam_ie wrote: »
    If this country can't afford professional medical staff then don't expect high level care. Expect the third world model. It's as simple as that. There seems to be plenty of billions for the banks though. Although, she could earn more in the UK I don't want to live there. The UK is the last place I'd go. But,Saudi and then Australia,( and I've lived in both before) I'd go in a heart beat. If they cut her pay again she's all for it.
    We'll see how it goes in the next month. We won't be alone that's for sure.
    Did your wife enter nursing because it's a good earner or to provide medical care?


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    #80
    uncle_sam_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,191 ✭✭✭uncle_sam_ie


    Well, it seems the only way to shut me up is to run and hide behind the mods. Pathetic. I've wasted enough time here,good luck! :mad:


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    #81
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,025 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    uncle_sam_ie wrote: »
    Well, it seems the only way to shut me up is to run and hide behind the mods. Pathetic. I've wasted enough time here,good luck! :mad:
    It wasn't me anyway. Seems like you don't want to answer my last question though....


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    #82
    Count Dooku
    Registered Users Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭Count Dooku


    uncle_sam_ie wrote: »
    There seems to be plenty of billions for the banks though.
    PS unions didn’t object to NAMA, because they were afraid that international investors will not lend money for Ireland anymore and government will be not able to pay overinflated salaries to public sector


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    #83
    asdasd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,185 ✭✭✭asdasd


    I have no idea why uncle_sam_ie would have been reported, being wrong is not the same as being aggressive, or a bad poster

    There is no way her wife would earn £50K in England, people in Ireland do not realise how low paid the UK is given the exchange rate. (£50K is the top 5% in England).

    If uncle_sam_ie and his wife earn about the same, they have a combined income of 100K euro. That is quite well off by any standards, and it is generally that sector of the PS which complains.


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    #84
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    uncle_sam_ie wrote: »
    Except when you come out of surgery and need a professional that has had four years at university and years of experience looking after you.

    But that's their Job.... big swing
    Am I supposed to be impressed by someone who has done four years in College :eek:


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    #85
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    murphaph wrote: »
    Nurses used to learn on the job-the notion of a degree in nursing is a new one anyway.

    It's true, they did.
    And nursing used to be a vocation and they started college degrees and it became a profession. One of the most skilled professions in Ireland seeing as they started on over 30k and wanted responsibility such as administering prescriptions.
    uncle_sam_ie wrote: »
    Things will get worse here if nurses start emigrating, thats guaranteed.

    Maybe and it'll be sad to see nurses trained in Ireland leave. But there are nurses from the Philippines who seem to do the job every bit as well. So just like the private sector, nobody is irreplaceable and can almost certainly be replaced by somebody cheaper
    uncle_sam_ie wrote: »
    She has already taken a pay cut this year. All she and nurses like her are asking for is a fare deal.

    Pension levy was not a paycut
    uncle_sam_ie wrote: »
    And, by the way she could earn more in the UK if she wanted to. Base pay stats are misleading.

    I agree base pay is misleading. Sure a garda's basic pay is 24k per year which is low but there are many allowances. Same for nurses, many, many allowances
    uncle_sam_ie wrote: »
    All she and nurses like her are asking for is a fare deal. And, by the way she could earn more in the UK if she wanted to.

    Pm me for a tenner for the "emigration tax" flight cost. :pac:
    But she chooses to work for less for mother Ireland, god what a martyr!


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    #86
    irish_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭irish_bob


    uncle_sam_ie wrote: »
    If this country can't afford professional medical staff then don't expect high level care. Expect the third world model. It's as simple as that. There seems to be plenty of billions for the banks though. Although, she could earn more in the UK but I don't want to live there. The UK is the last place I'd go. But,Saudi and then Australia,( and I've lived in both before) I'd go in a heart beat. If they cut her pay again she's all for it.
    We'll see how it goes in the next month. We won't be alone that's for sure.

    you wife could not earn more as a nurse in the uk , in fact she would take around a 30% pay cut

    i have a cousin who is a male nurse in wales since 1986 , this year he will earn 33 thousand sterling and is several steps up the NHS system , baschically he will earn only a few grand more than what a nurse here starts on which is 31 k

    check this out if you dont believe me

    Matron/Dir. Nursing Ireland (Band 1) E78,451 - E91,539
    Matron UK (Band 8a) £37,106 - £44,527


    Staff Nurse Ireland: E31,875 - E45,102
    Nurse UK (Band 5): £20,225 - £26,123

    Midwife/ Senior Staff nurse Ireland: E48,870
    Nurse specialist / Midwife (Band 6): 24,103 - 32,653
    Nurse advanced / Midwife Specialist (Band 7) 29,091 - 38,352


    Public Health Nurse Ireland: 48,765 - 58,028
    Nurse community (Band 5): £20,225 - £26,123
    Nurse community specialist (Band 6): 24,103 - 32,653


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    #87
    NewDubliner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭NewDubliner


    irish_bob wrote: »
    you wife could not earn more as a nurse in the uk , in fact she would take around a 30% pay cut
    How much tax would she pay?


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    #88
    Blackjack
    Registered Users Posts: 3,615 ✭✭✭Blackjack


    NewDubliner wrote: »
    How much tax would she pay?

    Also find out how much council tax she would pay, or how much of a pension she could expect in the UK, or how much Mortgage interest relief she may be entitled to, or any other tax benefit she may have here that she won't get in the UK.
    That's a real leveller.


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    #89
    NewDubliner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭NewDubliner


    Blackjack wrote: »
    Also find out how much council tax she would pay, or how much of a pension she could expect in the UK, or how much Mortgage interest relief she may be entitled to, or any other tax benefit she may have here that she won't get in the UK. That's a real leveller.
    And also benefits in UK, not available here. Plus, sterling is quite low against the euro at present, might need to factor in an average.


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    #90
    Blackjack
    Registered Users Posts: 3,615 ✭✭✭Blackjack


    NewDubliner wrote: »
    And also benefits in UK, not available here.
    such as?
    NewDubliner wrote: »
    Plus, sterling is quite low against the euro at present, might need to factor in an average.

    All the info you need is here

    No point in using an average with Sterling being low at the moment. There is nothing to suggest its going to back where it was anytime in the future, unless something changes drastically. Live with what you know you have now, rather than assuming what you might have in the future. Not doing so is why this country is in the mess it's in at the moment.


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    #91
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    This shouldn't be pointed at any particular branch of public services... nurses do an important job (as do electricians, factory workers and plasterers).

    The overall wage bill needs to come down... any reasonable person can see this, they should also be able to see that a 7-10% cut in wages is much better than 7-10% being made redundant.


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