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Workers Walk Today

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    #212
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    jimmmy wrote: »
    wonder why the link does not work on a signature ?

    Probably because what you say in it is not true.


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    #213
    S.L.F
    Registered Users Posts: 533 ✭✭✭S.L.F


    Just had another good look at the report

    Others in the Public Sector Includes persons not elsewhere classified i.e. Dáil Éireann TDs, Garda students and CSO
    temporary field staff. In June 2009 there were 166 Dáil TDs, 600 Garda students and
    approximately 10 CSO temporary field staff. This category was previously included under the
    Civil Service sub-sector but they are now included as a sub-sector on their own.

    This means there is a total of 776 people in the section "Others in the Public Sector"

    According to the graph the average wage per week is
    656.61 Others in the Public Sector


    So their average wage is 656.61.

    Seems very very low considering the TD's allowences and expenses
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    #214
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    Riskymove wrote: »
    ok


    http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/earnings/current/psempearn.pdf
    Mr Breathnach, the link works in post 184, when its not part of a signature. Your logic is therefore proved flawed yet again.


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    #215
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    jimmmy wrote: »
    Mr Breathnach, the link works in post 184, when its not part of a signature. Your logic is therefore proved flawed yet again.

    What you say in your sig is untrue.


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    #216
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    What you say in your sig is untrue.
    What you say above is untrue.


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    #217
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    jimmmy wrote: »
    What you say above is untrue.

    You know, jimmmy, I think you really believe what you are saying. But you are wrong. You have no evidence that "Average Irish public sector pay is over € 973 p.w.". The link you give does not support what you say.


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    #218
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    You know, jimmmy, I think you really believe what you are saying. But you are wrong. You have no evidence that "Average Irish public sector pay is over € 973 p.w.". The link you give does not support what you say.

    I have copied + pasted from the cso website ;)

    'Tis good enough for me, and RTE and most of the media it seems too...


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    #219
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    jimmmy wrote: »
    I have copied + pasted from the cso website ;)

    'Tis good enough for me, and RTE and most of the media it seems too...

    I see that you have edited your sig. That indicates that you recognise that you were wrong. I don't expect a frank admission that you were: it's not your style.


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    #220
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    I see that you have edited your sig. That indicates that you recognise that you were wrong. I don't expect a frank admission that you were: it's not you style.

    I changed it to put in the words "excluding health" ....if health were included ( including all those highly qualified medical people, consultants, layers of managers etc ) then the total would be even higher. If you want to be exact , fine. I also added the 9 cents, rather than rounding it off. ;)


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    #221
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    jimmmy wrote: »
    I changed it to put in the words "excluding health" ....if health were included ( including all those highly qualified medical people, consultants, layers of managers etc ) then the total would be even higher.

    You don't know that.
    If you want to be exact , fine. I also added the 9 cents, rather than rounding it off. ;)

    It's not a matter of being exact; it's a matter of being truthful.


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    #222
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    You don't know that..
    Everyone else does.
    Anyway, I have said excluding health now, in my signature, to keep you happy.;)
    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    It's not a matter of being exact; it's a matter of being truthful.
    The truth ( according to the c.s.o., whom I trust ) is € 973.09. It is not 973.


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    #223
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    jimmmy wrote: »

    Given average pay in the Gardai - across all personnell + grades - is 60 k, you know as well as I do that finishing salary is higher.

    this is the part I have an issue with

    it is a conjecture of yours that average finishing pay must be higher than the average pay

    there is no evidence put forward for this, the average pay is based across all grades but as I said 50% of garda pensioners retired as regular guards

    Therefore your figure for garda pension cannot be accurate, and I ask to to back up your statement with proof or a link, instead of plucking a figure out of the air which is inconsistent with facts and logic.


    I did not pluck any figures put of the air, I told you its based on the 2009 Estimates, its published material

    http://www.finance.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=5753&CatID=13&StartDate=1+January+2009&m=f

    page 91 sets out the expenditure for garda pensions and numbers of relevant grades

    I notice now that I think I did the calculations using the 2008 outturn rather than 2009 estimate but the figures are only slightly different anyway
    I have already explained to you how if you have a fixed number ( eg the 20 billion payroll budget ) and you lower the figure you divide it by ( eg 330,000 public servants instead of 350,000 ), you get a higher earning per public servant ! Have you understood this yet ?

    I always understood that jimmmy

    as i said above if you divide €20bn by a certain number you get X

    If you divide €20bn by a higher figure you get Y.....and Y will be lower than X

    thats straightforward maths


    However.....the issue you dont seem to get is that €20bn is not the figure you use to get average pay...whats needed is the total aggregate salaries of the public servants

    and if you include all 370,000 staff you get one figure...however if you exclude 30,000 or whatever, then you get another figure


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    #224
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    S.L.F wrote: »

    So their average wage is 656.61.
    Seems very very low considering the TD's allowences and expenses

    yes I posted about that before

    its a slight of hand to reduce the average for TDs....sly move alright


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    #225
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    Riskymove wrote: »

    this is the part I have an issue with

    it is a conjecture of yours that average finishing pay must be higher than the average pay
    If average pay ( for the sake of argument ) is 60 k among the Gardai working now, then these Gardai if there are no promotions or salary increases between now + when each of them retires , are entitled to 30k a year plus 90k tax free lump sum on retirement. However, many of them still years from retirement, especially the younger ones , can reasonably expect to be promoted or have grade increases between now + retirement age. That is why the average salary Gardai have just before retirement has to be higher than the average Garda salary.


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    #226
    Trampas
    Registered Users Posts: 7,681 ✭✭✭Trampas


    HSE are ringing around cancelling appoints for the 24th November as the unions have told the staff they are striking that day.


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    #227
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,025 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Trampas wrote: »
    HSE are ringing around cancelling appoints for the 24th November as the unions have told the staff they are striking that day.
    W@nkers. The "mega rich" whom their unions want to tax to make up the defecit (insert big rolleyes) will be unaffected by such measures as they can p!ss off the the Mater Private etc. but the vulnerable and just the ordinary PAYE taxpayer will feel it. Ingrates the lot of them! :mad:


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    #228
    Trampas
    Registered Users Posts: 7,681 ✭✭✭Trampas


    I heard a rumor that the reason why the nurses numbers need to be cut because they can't get rid of the admin and middle management people in the hse therefore the nurses need to go.

    If this true that is disgraceful.


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    #229
    S.L.F
    Registered Users Posts: 533 ✭✭✭S.L.F


    Trampas wrote: »
    I heard a rumor that the reason why the nurses numbers need to be cut because they can't get rid of the admin and middle management people in the hse therefore the nurses need to go.

    If this true that is disgraceful.

    But if it's not true then it wouldn't be disgraceful.
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    #230
    S.L.F
    Registered Users Posts: 533 ✭✭✭S.L.F


    Riskymove wrote: »
    yes I posted about that before

    its a slight of hand to reduce the average for TDs....sly move alright

    I'm sure if they put all the real high earners into the same group they would reduce the average for the rest of the Public service by a lot.

    The trainee garda get something small like €200 a week and there is about 600 of them.
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    #231
    Arathorn
    Registered Users Posts: 488 ✭✭Arathorn


    S.L.F wrote: »
    The trainee garda get something small like €200 a week and there is about 600 of them.

    People training in University/College get nothing, you could argue these figures shouldn't be included in the averages as well.


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    #232
    irish_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭irish_bob


    Trampas wrote: »
    I heard a rumor that the reason why the nurses numbers need to be cut because they can't get rid of the admin and middle management people in the hse therefore the nurses need to go.

    If this true that is disgraceful.

    we are over nursed in this country but thats beside the point

    they let go whoever is cheaper to let go , a nurse not a wet week in the job is cheap to let go as she has bugger all redundancy entitlements , some pen pushing dickhead ( 30 years in the job ) counting the days till he retires in an office at the bottom of the hall is much more expensive to can

    unions again


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    #233
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,025 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    We do actually need administrative staff in the HSE! Not as many as we have but we do need some.


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    #234
    S.L.F
    Registered Users Posts: 533 ✭✭✭S.L.F


    Arathorn wrote: »
    People training in University/College get nothing, you could argue these figures shouldn't be included in the averages as well.

    You are quite correct and we can take the cost of my lunch out too because that has about as much relevance.
    irish_bob wrote: »
    some pen pushing dickhead ( 30 years in the job ) counting the days till he retires in an office at the bottom of the hall is much more expensive to can

    Yeah counting the 3652 more days (10 more years including 2 29 feb days) Yeah Baby!!!
    murphaph wrote: »
    We do actually need administrative staff in the HSE! Not as many as we have but we do need some.

    Just not politicial appointees...
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