Why are we so angry???

johnnyskeleton

Darragh29 wrote: »

My only question is, what might have a nation of people so utterly angry and full of rage??? And it isn't the recession, we were angry, agitated and cranky before we ever had to deal with a recession???

Being stuck on a small damp island off the coast of Europe is bad enough, but we also have to live beside Great Britain. I'm amazed that in all the circumstances our anger is moderated by our gallows sense of humour.

contraflow

population wrote: »

But there is more caffeine in tea:D

Indeed there is, but why is it that coffee gives you more of a jolt than tea?? Can anyone explain this contradiction??

Martin 2

contraflow wrote: »

Originally Posted by population
But there is more caffeine in tea

Indeed there is, but why is it that coffee gives you more of a jolt than tea?? Can anyone explain this contradiction??

In its dry form, tea has higher caffeine levels than coffee per weight but as a prepared drink, tea usually has less caffeine than coffee, see here. Of course it also depends on how you take either.
What makes me 'angry' about coffee is the crazy prices these java joints charge.

xp90

Lack of fibre in our diets IMO

contraflow

Everything goes in cycles, we had 15 good years and now we are going to have a few bad years. We lost the run of ourselves in the good times and now we are losing the run of ourselves in the bad times thinking we have sank into a black pit from which we shall never emerge.
You can be angry at our politicians for failing to lead, senior civil servants for failing to regulate and bankers for lending recklessly. But what about the house vendors, publicans, shopkeepers, solicitors, estate agents, doctors, trades men, restaurateurs, motor sellers, etc. etc... did they all not rake it in with high prices during the boom, and did we all not queue up to buy like drunk lemmings. Nobody held a gun to our heads when we were buying property or when we were accepting mortgages we couldn’t afford. All estate agents and bankers can do is make it seem sexy and cool to borrow and buy without regard to the cost, but ultimately it is us who must accept personally responsibility for believing their double dealing rhetoric. If you want to be angry then be angry at yourself. If you are depending on politicians, high level civil servants and high level bankers to guard your quality of life then you are only going to be disappointed.
We needed this recession to kop us all on. It’s great that property is becoming affordable, it’s great that food and drink and prices in general are dropping, it is to our credit that we no longer queue up like lemmings to be financially sodomized by every retailer and service provider in the country. It’s great that we have realised that bankers and estate agents are not the expediters of our dreams but are self serving slaves to commission.
I have been unemployed since April, I may emigrate in the New Year but only as a last resort, I still haven’t given up on Ireland. This recession is a necessary evil and we will all benefit from it in the long run.

contraflow

Martin 2 wrote: »

In its dry form, tea has higher caffeine levels than coffee per weight but as a prepared drink, tea usually has less caffeine than coffee, see here. Of course it also depends on how you take either.
What makes me 'angry' about coffee is the crazy prices these java joints charge.

Thanks for the explanation, these java joints are dropping their prices to stave off extinction. Personally, I think it's a futile effort. Tea is ready for a comeback... coffee you have had your 15 minutes... now get lost.

Rantan

contraflow wrote: »

Everything goes in cycles, we had 15 good years and now we are going to have a few bad years. We lost the run of ourselves in the good times and now we are losing the run of ourselves in the bad times thinking we have sank into a black pit from which we shall never emerge.
You can be angry at our politicians for failing to lead, senior civil servants for failing to regulate and bankers for lending recklessly. But what about the house vendors, publicans, shopkeepers, solicitors, estate agents, doctors, trades men, restaurateurs, motor sellers, etc. etc... did they all not rake it in with high prices during the boom, and did we all not queue up to buy like drunk lemmings. Nobody held a gun to our heads when we were buying property or when we were accepting mortgages we couldn’t afford. All estate agents and bankers can do is make it seem sexy and cool to borrow and buy without regard to the cost, but ultimately it is us who must accept personally responsibility for believing their double
dealing rhetoric. If you want to be angry then be angry at yourself. If you are depending on politicians, high level civil servants and high level bankers to guard your quality of life then you are only going to be disappointed.
We needed this recession to kop us all on. It’s great that property is becoming affordable, it’s great that food and drink and prices in general are dropping, it is to our credit that we no longer queue up like lemmings to be financially sodomized by every retailer and service provider in the country. It’s great that we have realised that bankers and estate agents are not the expediters of our dreams but are self serving slaves to commission.
I have been unemployed since April, I may emigrate in the New Year but only as a last resort, I still haven’t given up on Ireland. This recession is a necessary evil and we will all benefit from it in the long run.

I dont fully agree with this argument, yes of course your points are valid but personally I never bought into the Celtic Tiger. I knew this day would come so I never went along with the grotesque splurge. And yeah i know that doesn't protect me from anything or give me any right to anything or to be owed anything. But if I want to be angry about it well f**k it I'll be angry about it.
My worry is that maybe we wont benefit from this in the long run, we didn;t learn any lessons from past difficulties and that is waht brought us here so I have no faith that my children wont go through this all over again.

Malice

mikemac wrote: »

I sure was sickened and depressed with all the SSIA radio ads when it seemed everyone had one but me.

Whatever about buying a house, what was wrong about saving into an SSIA?

Captain Furball

Darragh29 wrote: »

I'm just going to throw this out there to see what other folks think of this view that I have....

Lately we are all furious, private sector is furious with the public sector, the public sector is furious with the private sector and the government, everyone is furious with everyone to be honest...

Just back in the Celtic Tiger, we noticed that people were more hostile and angry, and all it look was a small mistake or a chance turn of events to suffer the wrath of someone at the end of the phone or in person, the anger and fury was always there just below the surface, all it look was a small event to stratch the surface and out came the fury and the venom.

I'm sure we've all had the customer who rages furiously at you on the phone or in person over what in reality was probably a relatively minor issue at the time...

So I know I can say from my own experience that in the boom times, people were very angry and now we are in a recession and people are very angry.

My only question is, what might have a nation of people so utterly angry and full of rage??? And it isn't the recession, we were angry, agitated and cranky before we ever had to deal with a recession???

Maybe this is as good as it gets?

nyarlothothep

Maybe we should be angry at the way people are socialized as they grow up with the rewards/results culture. Its facilitates aggression and narcissism and a lack of solidarity, dog eat dog, the elites squash the lower classes, they in turn try to out compete each other, it makes for a pretty toxic environment, at odds with characteristics of human nature, if we take aggression, despair and suffering to negative things, which are in abundance in the world, I'd hazard a guess that not many people are happy with this state of affairs. Not doing a very good job of governing ourselves as each social system races and then limps into catastrophe.

jmayo

Darragh29 wrote: »

I'm just going to throw this out there to see what other folks think of this view that I have....

and all it look was a small mistake or a chance turn of events to suffer the wrath of someone at the end of the phone or in person, the anger and fury was always there just below the surface, all it look was a small event to stratch the surface and out came the fury and the venom.

I'm sure we've all had the customer who rages furiously at you on the phone or in person over what in reality was probably a relatively minor issue at the time...

If you work in Eircom then I can fully understand why customers are shouting, nay screaming at you over the phone. :rolleyes:

Liam Byrne wrote: »

In some cases, myself included, we're "angry" because we didn't buy in to the fiasco and lived within our means, and now we're being hammered by additional taxes and levies and god-knows-what in order to bail out the banks who fuelled it and the people who did get greedy.

And - to date - no-one has been jailed or held responsible (unlike America and the U.K.) and in the meantime those who presided over it get €600,000 payoffs and €700,000 unvouched expenses instead of being fired in disgrace.

If you or I did that we'd be jailed and fined and have to pay it back.

As ever this man speaks the truth.
I started reading Shane Ross's "The bankers" and the first chapter just lists all the dodgy corrupt unethical insider dealing and theiving carried out by our banks, insurance companies, over the last few decades.
And how many bankers, directors, investment managers have ever gone to jail in that time.

Oh wait there was one, Gallagher, who went to jail in the Northern Ireland.
This would be the area of Ireland so many people around here want us to drag into our own sorry little cesspit run by the connected well heeled trough gouding scumbags.

Last Novemeber the w*nkers (sorry top bankers) had a hidden get together with the guys from the regulators office to wish the chairman farewell in his retirement.
Nothing has changed and as long as the ordinary joe soaps, who actually are always left caryring the can, let it carry on nothing ever will.

By the way those ordinary joe soaps carrying the can aren't the long term unemployed who have never worked a day in their lives even when we were desperate for workers, nor the inept lazy ones who live in public sector land where you are rewarded no matter how badly you perform and while away your time until retirement.

The problem in this country is we moan, get angry with the wrong people, then it all blows over and things take up where they left off.

bonzos

I spent the last few weeks working on upgrading a state office in my local area, before this i was unemployed for 6 months.The level of waste and abuse of taxpayers money i have witness is nothing short of criminal!!!!70% of the "workers" there spend most of thier time walking around chatting or standing outside smoking cigarettes....this seem to be able to find any excuse to stop "work" and complain that we are distrubing them.Every morning there is 5-10 people bring in their household rubbish to dump in the office bins,there is a temp. bed set up in a store room for hangovers!!!!!these people are a total cancer in our country and it sickens me that my tax is being wasted in such a manner.I hope the that before this resession is over that this issue will be sorted out once and for all....bring in the boys from europe if need be.:mad:shame on you scum killing our country,do the job you are paid to do!!!!

jimmmy

bonzos wrote: »

I spent the last few weeks working on upgrading a state office in my local area, before this i was unemployed for 6 months.The level of waste and abuse of taxpayers money i have witness is nothing short of criminal!!!!70% of the "workers" there spend most of thier time walking around chatting or standing outside smoking cigarettes....this seem to be able to find any excuse to stop "work" and complain that we are distrubing them.Every morning there is 5-10 people bring in their household rubbish to dump in the office bins,there is a temp. bed set up in a store room for hangovers!!!!!these people are a total cancer in our country and it sickens me that my tax is being wasted in such a manner.I hope the that before this resession is over that this issue will be sorted out once and for all....bring in the boys from europe if need be.:mad:shame on you scum killing our country,do the job you are paid to do!!!!

+1. Well said and many people have had experiences like you, and know well whats going on.

Rantan

bonzos wrote: »

I spent the last few weeks working on upgrading a state office in my local area, before this i was unemployed for 6 months.The level of waste and abuse of taxpayers money i have witness is nothing short of criminal!!!!70% of the "workers" there spend most of thier time walking around chatting or standing outside smoking cigarettes....this seem to be able to find any excuse to stop "work" and complain that we are distrubing them.Every morning there is 5-10 people bring in their household rubbish to dump in the office bins,there is a temp. bed set up in a store room for hangovers!!!!!these people are a total cancer in our country and it sickens me that my tax is being wasted in such a manner.I hope the that before this resession is over that this issue will be sorted out once and for all....bring in the boys from europe if need be.:mad:shame on you scum killing our country,do the job you are paid to do!!!!

Tell that to most public workers and they wont believe you!!
I know the kind of upgarde I'd like to carry out in that place - it would involve an industrial sized shredder!

Dannyboy83

bonzos wrote: »

I spent the last few weeks working on upgrading a state office in my local area, before this i was unemployed for 6 months.The level of waste and abuse of taxpayers money i have witness is nothing short of criminal!!!!70% of the "workers" there spend most of thier time walking around chatting or standing outside smoking cigarettes....this seem to be able to find any excuse to stop "work" and complain that we are distrubing them.Every morning there is 5-10 people bring in their household rubbish to dump in the office bins,there is a temp. bed set up in a store room for hangovers!!!!!these people are a total cancer in our country and it sickens me that my tax is being wasted in such a manner.I hope the that before this resession is over that this issue will be sorted out once and for all....bring in the boys from europe if need be.:mad:shame on you scum killing our country,do the job you are paid to do!!!!

I get the feeling that there seem to be different rules for different agencies/offices or something like that.

One family member & a few cousins are in the health sector, and said there is far worse stuff than above, and said people could actually get jail sentences for the level of waste.
They also complained that there seem to be work practises are purely designed to obstruct people - things that people in the private sector just don't have to contend with.
One example was certain rules with not being allowed to use a USB key, you could only use an office usb key, but they had no office usb keys in stock and nobody seemed to know when they would get them, enforced ban on any internet access to the machine, so ultimately no method to get the files that you need, meaning you're supposed to just live with it and read the paper.
And meetings called for the most insanely stupid things, which last hours and people just drink tea/coffee and prolong it, Parnell style, simply to avoid doing any work, lol!
And none of the conclusions ever being enforced, just people suggesting stuff and a massive cloud of inertia that destroys your morale.
And any attempts to change it by the productive people are met with massive hostility by 'other people'.
So the productive people just have to put their head down and get on with it and try to ignore the rest.


One of my colleagues here told me his uncle took a big job with the NRA, and nearly went off his rocker because he had absolutely nothing to do all day. And even the lowest paid people were being paid 40k per year to sit around and play cards all day every day. People were coming to work at 10am, read the paper, lunch would be 90mins and home early on friday.
Plus they were practically bullied into buying houses, lol!

But on the other hand, One relative and a few friends are in the revenue services and they all say there is very little waste, and nothing like any of the stuff described above. They seem to operate like a company in the private sector. Other friends who've worked in clerical duties have vouched for the exact same thing.

So I guess there are a number of new sectors which are rampantly corrupt and out of control, and then there are a few other sectors which are nothing of the sort.


BTW, I was asking a few friends and cousins about this
http://www.tribune.ie/news/home-news/article/2009/oct/25/corruption-is-rife-among-gardai-claims-young-offic/
They confirmed its true, not everywhere, but in a lot of places.

irish_bob

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I get the feeling that there seem to be different rules for different agencies/offices or something like that.

One family member & a few cousins are in the health sector, and said there is far worse stuff than above, and said people could actually get jail sentences for the level of waste.
They also complained that there seem to be work practises are purely designed to obstruct people - things that people in the private sector just don't have to contend with.
One example was certain rules with not being allowed to use a USB key, you could only use an office usb key, but they had no office usb keys in stock and nobody seemed to know when they would get them, enforced ban on any internet access to the machine, so ultimately no method to get the files that you need, meaning you're supposed to just live with it and read the paper.
And meetings called for the most insanely stupid things, which last hours and people just drink tea/coffee and prolong it, Parnell style, simply to avoid doing any work, lol!
And none of the conclusions ever being enforced, just people suggesting stuff and a massive cloud of inertia that destroys your morale.
And any attempts to change it by the productive people are met with massive hostility by 'other people'.
So the productive people just have to put their head down and get on with it and try to ignore the rest.


One of my colleagues here told me his uncle took a big job with the NRA, and nearly went off his rocker because he had absolutely nothing to do all day. And even the lowest paid people were being paid 40k per year to sit around and play cards all day every day. People were coming to work at 10am, read the paper, lunch would be 90mins and home early on friday.
Plus they were practically bullied into buying houses, lol!

But on the other hand, One relative and a few friends are in the revenue services and they all say there is very little waste, and nothing like any of the stuff described above. They seem to operate like a company in the private sector. Other friends who've worked in clerical duties have vouched for the exact same thing.

So I guess there are a number of new sectors which are rampantly corrupt and out of control, and then there are a few other sectors which are nothing of the sort.


BTW, I was asking a few friends and cousins about this
http://www.tribune.ie/news/home-news/article/2009/oct/25/corruption-is-rife-among-gardai-claims-young-offic/
They confirmed its true, not everywhere, but in a lot of places.

NO NO , never , its not true , i refuse to believe any of it , the media has informed your opinion regarding the civil service , worker against worker __________

Dannyboy83

LOL:D

yoshytoshy

This thread got me thinking ,would it be possible to setup a crack team ,to inspect every section of public services/clerical etc.

We have the revenue commisioner and tax man ,on everyones backs for money.
Who do the public have ?

ParkRunner

yoshytoshy wrote: »

This thread got me thinking ,would it be possible to setup a crack team ,to inspect every section of public services/clerical etc.

We have the revenue commisioner and tax man ,on everyones backs for money.
Who do the public have ?

Colm McCarthy, FOI Requests, Eddie Hobbs, ESRI, CSO, The Sunday Independent..

jimmmy

EF wrote: »

Colm McCarthy, FOI Requests, Eddie Hobbs, ESRI, CSO, The Sunday Independent..

And yet their gross pay has not been reduced, FAS still has a budget of a billion a year ( well transatlantic first class flights + hairdressers in Florida etc are expensive ye know )....

yoshytoshy

EF wrote: »

Colm McCarthy, FOI Requests, Eddie Hobbs, ESRI, CSO, The Sunday Independent..

Not so much political or frontline services ,but to investigate inefficiencies in all areas where public money is spent.
Investigate without any notice.

Heroditas

jimmmy wrote: »

FAS still has a budget of a billion a year ( well transatlantic first class flights + hairdressers in Florida etc are expensive ye know )....

It's the duplication that gets me:
Fás, Údarás, IDA, Enterprise Ireland etc
Wouldn't one or two agencies be sufficient?

ParkRunner

jimmmy wrote: »

And yet their gross pay has not been reduced, FAS still has a budget of a billion a year ( well transatlantic first class flights + hairdressers in Florida etc are expensive ye know )....

Expenses have been hugely reduced, I dont think anyone can deny that. There has been a massive clampdown on anything but essential expense claims. As bad as FÁS is there is very little else out there for those who have lost their jobs and need retraining. We need a restructured efficient fás more than ever these days.

Does it really matter that gross pay has not been reduced when ultimately it is the overall cost to the exchequer that counts..which has been reduced and will continue to be reduced in December and into the medium term future

T runner

doc_17 wrote: »

The complete awfulness of our public representatives. or maybe just the weather?

The quality of public representatives are limited by the quality of candidates that are put before us. A higher standard of public representative would be a huge plus especially in Ireland. I get a bit hopeless when ideas for radicalising and opening up politics to more talented men and women than the same old boys in the same old professions are shot down often by people (not you doc) who shoot down public representatives. If you want to change things in Ireland then the political system needs change. Otherwise the anger will keep going around in circles.

Shea O'Meara

Some great posts on this thread. Sad to see more recent ones revert to Public servant bashing as if once they're sorted out all will be well with the world.

People are angry, in my view because for a lot of us the Celtic Tiger was a buzz word and nothing more. To hear people say 'we' got greedy or 'we lost the run of ourselves' really makes me angry.
The way I see it, we've three sets of people; 1) Those who during the boom, had access to more minimum wage jobs and/or got a raise to that wage and skilled workers who could find comfort in a stable jobs market. 2) Then we have those who wanted to be like the big boys, buy property abroad, maybe got into the stock market a little too heavy. Bought investment properties for renting out etc. (driving up housing prices). Backed Fianna Fail to the hilt. 3) And Finally the people who made the most money and are responsible for this current mess, who will most likely be least affected by it.

I've little sympathy for the second group. I don't blame anyone for trying to get ahead, but don't come on whinging about people on welfare or in the public service getting paid too much. You had your time in the Sun, it's over. Don't blame everyone else.

As for the third bunch, this is were we are all to blame. Although I never voted for Fianna Fail, I take responsibility. I could have knocked on doors etc. I doubt they'll get back in, but I reckon they won't lose by much.

johnnyc

Villain wrote: »

We are a nation of begrudgers we all thought we should have what others have.

Totally agree with that statement like the nob who berated pat kenny for his 600,000 euro a year salary. aint pat fault if rte are total fools

irish_bob

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

Some great posts on this thread. Sad to see more recent ones revert to Public servant bashing as if once they're sorted out all will be well with the world.

People are angry, in my view because for a lot of us the Celtic Tiger was a buzz word and nothing more. To hear people say 'we' got greedy or 'we lost the run of ourselves' really makes me angry.
The way I see it, we've three sets of people; 1) Those who during the boom, had access to more minimum wage jobs and/or got a raise to that wage and skilled workers who could find comfort in a stable jobs market. 2) Then we have those who wanted to be like the big boys, buy property abroad, maybe got into the stock market a little too heavy. Bought investment properties for renting out etc. (driving up housing prices). Backed Fianna Fail to the hilt. 3) And Finally the people who made the most money and are responsible for this current mess, who will most likely be least affected by it.

I've little sympathy for the second group. I don't blame anyone for trying to get ahead, but don't come on whinging about people on welfare or in the public service getting paid too much. You had your time in the Sun, it's over. Don't blame everyone else.

As for the third bunch, this is were we are all to blame. Although I never voted for Fianna Fail, I take responsibility. I could have knocked on doors etc. I doubt they'll get back in, but I reckon they won't lose by much.

you say that as if public servants didnt do well out of the boom , they were among the biggest beneficiaries

Shea O'Meara

irish_bob wrote: »

you say that as if public servants didnt do well out of the boom , they were among the biggest beneficiaries

A lot of sectors did well out of that selective boom.The main issue with Public Servant salaries seems to me to be that they have more wage protection than the private sector. Public service jobs are always more sought after in bleak economic times. I recall in the earlier days of 'the boom' Local authorities were hard pressed to get staff. possibly due to the low salaries for starting grades.