How to diplomatically offer retouching?

democrates

I've been thinking about how to charge for retouching portraits, while calculating based on an hourly rate is easy the bit that I'm stuck on is how to pitch the service without insulting the client. Do I even show them their 'before' shot in the raw?

DotOrg

no, never show a client a before picture and then the after, as it instantly looks like you're pointing out any 'flaws' they have

when advertsing your photo service, simply say you can include minor retouching which if not required should be specified.

when you show people the gently retouched pictures they generally always love them and normally just say, ooh that's a great photo of me. once you aren't changing massive features of people, 99% of people much prefer their own pictures retouched

there was a great article in the SWPP magazine about this last month which explained this argument in great convincing detail

democrates

Thanks DotOrg that makes a lot of sense, yeah they should know already that they would benefit by it. Just thinking about it now the small sizes for web would be cheaper since they're quicker to do, and these can convince people to buy more prints.

thecommander

Keep that image and show all clients the before and after. Praying thats not a woman?

smelltheglove

I think I have an edge on this as I'm a girl and girls dont take so much insult from it from each other. I generally smooth the skin on every wedding shot, I often have clients say oh I have a spot or oh i never whitened my teeth and I always explain that I can remove any blemishes if they are happy with that then I go for it.

As opposed for charging extra, I dont charge extra, i feel my clients pay enough for my service already without having to worry about paying extra for the likes of smoothing and blemishes, it doesnt take me much time or effort to do it, in fact the skin is included in my scripts. I understand though if you are selling portraits that you are best of including it as an extra as you are not likely to make the same amount from a portrait session as you would from a wedding.

squareballoon

I've always done it and included the time needed to do it in my price. Often women will say 'And do all the photoshop work you need to to make me beautiful' I never mention it unless they do.

democrates

@tc cheers, it's a woman alright, typical irish mother she has her kids perfect but neglects herself.

@stg that sounds very fair ok and yes it's more of an issue with headshots. Though some subjects blessed with perfect skin can be good to go straight oout of the camera you see cases of sun damage for example where greyscale is the best option. It's an added difficulty for male togs alright that women would be much more sensitive to our comments, very easy to hurt some poor souls feelings, real eggshell job!

AnimalRights

Some of the females I've photographed in bands and at gigs look fantastic but when I zoom in on original size on my 21mp files they too have black facial hair! I also try not to look up the nostrils either.

I don't tamper with the photographs, but only because it's more work and I'm lazy like that, also I probably don't know how to use the air brush or whatever its called.

ThOnda

Not having much experience, I always ask whether the photographed person wants to remove, cover or enhance something.

smelltheglove

Tonight I printed a canvas for my friend from the photoshoot I did at the start of the week. While I was getting ready to print the poor girl was shocked seeing her skin up close, obviously I was getting ready to retouch it anyway, when printing to large scale you need to pay extra attention to everything, and she was stunned to see the difference between the original and the final touch up.

I think when people see the difference they are happy to pay for it, however for me myself I dont like to show the difference, I mean I smooth my own skin in every shot (the odd thinify in there too;)) so I am aware of what another girl would feel like looking at their pics without touchup.

democrates

@AR yeah the 5dii shows you things you always wondered about but were too afraid to ask. But it's like a medical scan, and yeah way more than you saw in the flesh it's not a fair representation. PS you'd be surprised what a green channel mask over a gausssian blur layer can do, it's quick and easy enough so long as it's not destined for anywhere near lifesize output

@ThOnda I've found that some women can get really defensive when I suggest any improvements, you get that look, but the patter makes all the difference and usually seems to put them at ease, you can see why some guys pretend to be gay in the fashion industry but f that, straight pride...

@stg yes even as a guy I appreciate that we prefer a shot of us looking our 'best' rather than a shot highlighting all flaws, and that's the crux alright, though the before v after partially justifies the price it's a rare occasion you'd actually show that contrast. I'm leaning toward your policy of including it in the price now because if I make a big issue of imperfections it may scare people away or if not mess up the facial expression because they're now thinking of me zooming in, whereas just giving the results can get the word of mouth thing going better

smelltheglove

@stg yes even as a guy I appreciate that we prefer a shot of us looking our 'best' rather than a shot highlighting all flaws, and that's the crux alright, though the before v after partially justifies the price it's a rare occasion you'd actually show that contrast. I'm leaning toward your policy of including it in the price now because if I make a big issue of imperfections it may scare people away or if not mess up the facial expression because they're now thinking of me zooming in, whereas just giving the results can get the word of mouth thing going better[/QUOTE]

I do believe by giving the best shot you can produce you are more likely to receive call back work, if you price competitvely you will be fine and set up scripts or actions to do the majority of work for you too. You can download a lot of actions for free too but it is very much trial and error to find which one you like. For me skin smoothing etc takes less than a minute and when the skin is bad I may spend up to 2 minutes tops. This is usually all I need to do but sometimes you may come across bad teeth which depending on which software I use either takes 5 seconds or just a minute. If it is this easy to do I dont see why I shouldnt do it every time and I do think it is better business sense to always include it.

democrates

Wow, I've spent up to 20 minutes on some shots but in fairness that's included experimentation, so scripting that is really the key. Thanks for the pointers Rach, you're a star - much appreciated