How's our driving...?(forum feedback)

Dub13

Every so often we go to you the users of the forum and see what you guys think of the current state of the forum and of course our moderation.So this is your chance to tell us what you think is working well,whats not working well and of course we are always open to new suggestion.

The Soccer mods along with Dev have been chatting about the direction of the forum in private and this phase is to seek your input so please take the opportunity as at the end of the day its your forum.

I will add a poll private poll so we can ascertain the general perception of the Soccer forum moderation this season.

So the floor is open.

dannydiamond

Considering the nature of the forum, I think you lads do a smashing job.

Liam O

yeah, agree. Very difficult to moderate but maybe instead of banning for a week when someone who doesn't usually cause trouble has an outburst, just a 1 or 2 day banning would suffice imo.

MagicMarker

Just use common sense please.

cson

As the saying goes you can please some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time. I think you guys do a good job overall.

I will say this much; some bans handed out seem very harsh. I know theres a fine line to be toed regarding banter but one of two of those who took complaints to feedback were justified imo. The flipside of that is there is some awful **** let go sometimes on some threads - the Rangers Fans thread yesterday being a case in point. I know The Recklessone did mop up that particular mess and did give a warning but personally that would have lock written all over it to me.

It's an impossible forum to moderate but on the whole you do a good job of cutting out the ****e and letting it flow as much as possible.

Handsome Bob

You are all doing the best you can so well done. The only problem with the forum is sadly something you can't control, and it requires a bit of cop on from various posters.

slingerz

I think its ridiculously over moderated to be honest. I think some of the bans handed out are crazy and often smack of an abuse of power. It is a difficult forum to moderate but i think people have to realise that it is an emotive topic and that a lot worse is written about players/managers/owners in the press and online than goes on here

Eire-Dearg

Just right.

mayordenis

It's hard to say really without getting into individual cases but overall a decent job, we all went everyone to be able to feck around and joke a bit,
but a certain something said yesterday ye should look into drawing a line in the sand between banter and trolling.

cson

To be honest a bit of respect would go a long way in here. Respect for other posters, their opinions, their clubs would stop a lot of messing.

Fair play league anyone?

Edit: To expand on that, I know over on another site I use they have a rep system in place - little green bars. The site is vBulletin too so maybe a rep system could be introduced on the soccer forum? I'm not tech savvy so I don't know how you'd be able to work it, it might only be applicable site wide and that wouldn't work. Anyway, just a suggestion.

Handsome Bob

cson wrote: »

To be honest a bit of respect would go a long way in here. Respect for other posters, their opinions, their clubs would stop a lot of messing.

Fair play league anyone?

Agreed 100%. It's not going to happen though as it's been appealed for in every feedback thread only to be told to "man up".

The Muppet

Since my return to this forum the improvement in Modding from my last stint here is very evident . I like the more relaxed approach as it allows for a bit of banter which has not always been the case IMO.


^Man up Lads

CHD

Its perfect, Thanks.

Overall fair.

Some mods harsher than others and some more leniant.

Still plenty of threads derailed by the same nonsense day in day out but it's a tough crowd I guess !

mike65

cson wrote: »

Edit: To expand on that, I know over on another site I use they have a rep system in place - little green bars. The site is vBulletin too so maybe a rep system could be introduced on the soccer forum? I'm not tech savvy so I don't know how you'd be able to work it, it might only be applicable site wide and that wouldn't work. Anyway, just a suggestion.

letsbet.ie I take it? That system would end up being used on tribal lines here I imagine.

I voted to be more relaxed. And yet I know I'd swing a mighty ban hammer against that type of poster that spends his/her time deliberately winding up punters on certain long running threads and yet always staying within the rules so getting away with it and causing others to get infracted as they get frustrated with same.

Bubs101

It's pretty much right. you can enagage in gentle good natured banter trolling without getting carded and you know to be careful in any thread with a sectarian element and the Eirebhoy threads just showed recently that it's a strong community that takes things seriously when they should be but most of the time it's for the banter

Diabhal Beag

I don't think you need to change anything. It's fine the way it is.

Handsome Bob

Bubs101 wrote: »

It's pretty much right. you can enagage in gentle good natured banter trolling without getting carded and you know to be careful in any thread with a sectarian element and the Eirebhoy threads just showed recently that it's a strong community that takes things seriously when they should be but most of the time it's for the banter

Nothing good natured about trolling IMHO.

The Muppet

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Nothing good natured about trolling IMHO.

Just interested, What's your definition of Trolling?


I,m not sure if this thread is intended for open discussion like this , delete if not .

Handsome Bob

The Muppet wrote: »

Just interested, What's your definition of Trolling?

Posting in a manner that is designed to get a reaction from people. People have honed that skill to perfection though, it's hard to accuse them of trolling and proving it.

The Muppet

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Posting in a manner that is designed to get a reaction from people. People have honed that skill to perfection though, it's hard to accuse them of trolling and proving it.

Have you any friends in real life that support an opposing team? assumining you have do they take piss from time to time . Do you take offence if they do?

Handsome Bob

The Muppet wrote: »

Have you any friends in real life that support an opposing team? assumining you have do they take piss from time to time . Do you take offence if they do?

Of course I do, the difference is though is that I can tell him to STFU and to stop being an idiot without reprimand. I can't do that here (and rightly so). Also, his opinions wouldn't take centre stage, unfortunately when someone who is trolling on here (and is good at it) the discussion tends to revolve around that person's opinions.

copacetic

The Muppet wrote: »

Have you any friends in real life that support an opposing team? assumining you have do they take piss from time to time . Do you take offence if they do?

I have plenty of friends who support other teams and do have a bit of banter with them, the difference is that I know them and it's gnerally good natured. Also we would generally go easy on each other after a really bad result, as we all know how it feels, kind of the opposite of boards if you will. They also don't make it their lifes work to follow fans of other teams around all day spewing non stop 'banter' at them. If they did it wouldn't be seen as banter, would it?

For me the mods do a good job but personally I've also felt certain constant trolls should be dealt with more severly, there are numerous people who have made an art of practically evvery post being a trolling one, but always trying to stay just the right side of the line. It's driven more reasonable and good natured posters away from the forum leaving it more and more to that type of poster, which is a bad thing imo.

These peoples posts shouldn't be dealt with in isolation and they shouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt which they seem to be all the time.

Mr.Nice Guy

Banter is part and parcel of football. The difficulty mods on this forum will always be faced with on the internet is the pretty much impossible task of determining with 100% success who is engaging in banter, and who is 'trolling'. On the internet you can't hear the tone of comments or see facial expressions. It's very easy to overreact to comments then when you can't really know the spirit in which they are being delivered.

With all that being the case I think the mods of the forum are doing a good job. I think the atmosphere of a forum says a lot about those who mod it and I think the Soccer forum has a very good atmosphere generally speaking.

Let's not go down the road of a "troll-hunt" and leave people scared of engaging in banter for fear they will be hit with a week ban. If the forum took that direction I think it would be dreadful. Things are good. Can't have a 100% success rate when determining banter on the net but I reckon it is better to have an imperfect system than the cold, harsh alternative. If people go over the line then they can be warned and asked to be more mindful as I think generally tends to happen.

SlickRic

very good job lads. honestly.

for it to be perfect, as has been said, all i feel is required is a bit of common sense from posters, as well as toning down the over-sensitivity.

let me put it this way...the ones who are on a wind up the majority of the time tone it down, and the ones who are over-sensitive to harden up a bit.

i've generally enjoyed the atmosphere around here lately though, as evidenced by my increased post count.

mayordenis

The Muppet wrote: »

Have you any friends in real life that support an opposing team? assumining you have do they take piss from time to time . Do you take offence if they do?

totally out of context really - in reality me and my mates can have a bit of back and forth including calling someone a prick and telling them to **** or anything like that.

In here those who rise to the bait get punished more than the trolls which is complete bull****.

The Muppet

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Of course I do, the difference is though is that I can tell him to STFU and to stop being an idiot without reprimand. I can't do that here (and rightly so). Also, his opinions wouldn't take centre stage, unfortunately when someone who is trolling on here (and is good at it) the discussion tends to revolve around that person's opinions.

If someone genuinly believes in their argument and backs it up they are not trolling IMO. I have had a few accusations of people being on a wind up when in fact they are posting their opinion.

coapetic wrote:

I have plenty of friends who support other teams and do have a bit of banter with them, the difference is that I know them and it's gnerally good natured

Thats a very intersting point, most of the users here don't know each other in real life but recent sad events have shown we definitely have a common bond. There is a type of friendship here that many of us may not have been very aware of. The banter is part of that friendship, imo none of the regular posters here intend to be hurtful.

mayordenis wrote: »

totally out of context really - in reality me and my mates can have a bit of back and forth including calling someone a prick and telling them to **** or anything like that.

In here those who rise to the bait get punished more than the trolls which is complete bull****.

People should be able to express themselves without resorting to profanaties.It's not the mods fault if they can't.

mayordenis

The Muppet wrote: »

People should be able to express themselves without resorting to profanaties.It's not the mods fault if they can't.

Oh sorry I didn't know you were such a gentleman.

Call a spade a spade, swearing has become part of normal vocab now - and if you actually talked about the point I made as opposed to the symantics, it would be more conducive to debate.

The problem is that if someone is trolling and going unpunished as is the norm, the only response is to report them, this gets quite tedious after a time.

Handsome Bob

The Muppet wrote: »

If someone genuinly believes in their argument and backs it up they are not trolling IMO. I have had a few accusations of people being on a wind up when in fact they are posting their opinion.

Aye but, and I'm not referring to you here, but what one might believe to be backing up a point I may feel to be flawed, as it ignores facts from the other side and are unwilling to take them on board. So there's no progression of the argument, just endless "lolz you're wrong" type posts. If I feel I'm talking to an immovable brick wall then I will dismiss them as trolling.

The banter is part of that friendship, imo none of the regular posters here intend to be hurtful.

TBH there is a distinct minority here that I would blank if I met them in real life. If you don't think there is element here that doesn't enjoy anything more than compounding the misery of rival fans with ignorant BS then you are IMO sadly mistaken.

The Muppet

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Aye but, and I'm not referring to you here, but what one might believe to be backing up a point I may feel to be flawed, as it ignores facts from the other side and are unwilling to take them on board. So there's no progression of the argument, just endless "lolz you're wrong" type posts. If I feel I'm talking to an immovable brick wall then I will dismiss them as trolling.

Theres two sides to that though , if you beleive you're right and I believe I'm right theres not much chance of reaching agreement. I do agree that sometimes the Tit for Tat goes too far, maybe tahts something we should all try be more aware of.

LZ5by5 wrote: »

TBH there is a distinct minority here that I would blank if I met them in real life. If you don't think there is element here that doesn't enjoy anything more than compounding the misery of rival fans with ignorant BS then you are IMO sadly mistaken.

I see non regulars posting in match threads who are guilty of that, I don't think the regulars do it very much.

DSB

All very good, except for one particular moderator, who I presume I'm not allowed name, so I won't.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

mayordenis

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

yea actually just a bit of focus on non dickery and we'd all be laughin

Handsome Bob

The Muppet wrote: »

Theres two sides to that though , if you beleive you're right and I believe I'm right theres not much chance of reaching agreement. I do agree that sometimes the Tit for Tat goes too far, maybe tahts something we should all try be more aware of.

I'm not going to give specific examples for fear of derailing the thread, but personally I find it deeply frustrating when a specific argument is not entertained because the source is apparently "biased", regardless of how much effort said person has put into compiling his findings. For that kind of analysis to be dismissed with a one line post that is no better than "lol that doesn't count" is IMO a joke.

I see non regulars posting in match threads who are guilty of that, I don't think the regulars do it very much.

C'mon mate, seriously?

noodler

Just one issue ever. A straight one week ban when I posted a picture in the Liverpool 2-1 Lyon thread two weeks ago (as if I wasn't a Liverpool fan or as if it was in some way offensive).

Meanwhile certain people get away with 24 hour trolling and baiting in the Liverpool forums.

Bubs101

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Nothing good natured about trolling IMHO.

Surely post number 16 is an example of it;)?

Kirnsy

mods doing a great job overall. fair play. can't please everyone and i understand the point made about intelligent trolls, I'd imagine the mods have a good idea of who is flirting with trollery(great word) and when they step over line they'll certainly know about it.

keep up the good work.

mayordenis

Kirnsy wrote: »

mods doing a great job overall. fair play. can't please everyone and i understand the point made about intelligent trolls, I'd imagine the mods have a good idea of who is flirting with trollery(great word) and when they step over line they'll certainly know about it.

keep up the good work.

the guys doing it are flirting with trollery in the way marlon king flirts. :pac:

SantryRed

One little thing, when one of you mods puts a mod note in the superthread, could you maybe put it in the very first post?

Effort in finding the post when it's buried in a load of pages

copacetic

The Muppet wrote: »

Thats a very intersting point, most of the users here don't know each other in real life but recent sad events have shown we definitely have a common bond. There is a type of friendship here that many of us may not have been very aware of. The banter is part of that friendship, imo none of the regular posters here intend to be hurtful.
.

I'd disagree strongly with this and while recent events showed a common bond between a lot of us that was because of who it was imo.

There are a number of posters on the soccer forum that I personally would consider the lowest on the boards scale of evolution. I've had people abuse and threaten me via pm leading to sitebans that I have more time for!

I dunno, maybe these people are labouring under the misapprehension they are 'bantering' with friends. They aren't imo.

Possibly we are dragging this thread off topic but I think the standard of moderation has gotten better over last while on soccer, but the trolling issue is the key for me and I know for a lot of other people too. As far as I can tell it's split into two camps, those who want license to be alble to troll and those who can't understand the reasons for people taking more interest in other clubs than their own. I'm sure this runs both ways.

CantGetNoSleep

Is there really a need for See warning post no whatever in the title of almost half the threads on here?

OPENROAD

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

Is there really a need for See warning post no whatever in the title of almost half the threads on here?

Think it is an excellent thing imo, if you have a 10 page + thread and mods have warned people to keep off a certain point, it is good to have that warning otherwise you could easily end up with an unfair ban.

Mars Bar

'Tis grand. It's a tough task I imagine and I've only managed to get one infraction for calling a manager of a major club a twat. Kinda felt rebellious for about ten minutes, then it wore off and just took it on the chin.

Good job mods!

Kess73

Cannot criticize the footy mods as they are generally fair, and they will take the time to send a pm to chat with you if you have been deemed to have stepped out of line.

They get more right than they get wrong.

super_furry

The only problem I'd have is something that i'm probably in a minority on, is the superthreads. Having everything in them kills the dynamism of the place and it's not uncommon for the front page to just be full of 200 page threads. It puts of people who don't regularly post in those threads to contributing.

yahoo_moe

super_furry wrote: »

The only problem I'd have is something that i'm probably in a minority on, is the superthreads. Having everything in them kills the dynamism of the place and it's not uncommon for the front page to just be full of 200 page threads. It puts of people who don't regularly post in those threads to contributing.

In the absence of separate club forums (which'd kill the interaction even more I think), I think it's far easier to have one superthread per club than umpteen different threads each related to the same team.

Generally I'd say the modding here is good - unfortunately there's some shocking posting from time to time (the kind of thing LZ5by5 was talking about) but stupidity can't be helped really. And it certainly can't be outlawed in the charter so nothing that can really be done about it.

McGrath5

I think the mod's do a difficult job very well. The soccer forum is one I enjoy reading a lot and occasionally taking part in.

Morzadec

copacetic wrote: »

For me the mods do a good job but personally I've also felt certain constant trolls should be dealt with more severly, there are numerous people who have made an art of practically evvery post being a trolling one, but always trying to stay just the right side of the line. It's driven more reasonable and good natured posters away from the forum leaving it more and more to that type of poster, which is a bad thing imo.

These peoples posts shouldn't be dealt with in isolation and they shouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt which they seem to be all the time.

Agreed 100%. I voted for harsher. When I first joined the forum I was amazed by the 'no abuse' rule of players/managers and thought it was weird and kinda silly. But I've really come to see the benefit. People are talking about football rather than just spouting insults back and forth (well this is what it is supposed to be like in an ideal forum).

Harsh moderation may not be to some people's liking but in the long run it's a good thing for the people who really want to talk about football, and not score points off each other with petty arguments and insults.

There is a certain thread that I've pretty much stopped posting in because the same topics are recycled again and again, usually brought up by the same people who seem to have no interest in rationally discussing football, but instead getting a kick out of winding people up. As has been said already, these posters are usually quite crafty and are experienced enough by this stage to be able to do this while staying within the boundaries.

The reason I voted for 'harsher' is because I would like to see these people clamped down on. They are ruining threads and as far as I can see the main reason they come on here is not to talk about football, but instead to have a laugh annoying people. This is bad for the forum imo and I would like to see these posters more harshly moderated.

The only other way I can think of dealing with these posters (if the moderators feel that it would be against the charter to punish them) would be some kind of agreement amongst sensible posters to 'boycott' their posts as such. (i.e. everyone agrees to not respond to what are clearly antagonistic, wind-up posts). I don't know how this could be organised but if it could then it would really stop a lot of threads getting derailed. And perhaps these posters would get bored if they stopped getting a reaction because, lets face it, that's what they're looking for.

All in all though, good job mods it must be a tough job and I think you are managing well. As someone else said you can't please everyone, and while I think some harsher moderation could help the forum, you are probably striking a fair balance at the moment.

LuckyLloyd

DSB wrote: »

All very good, except for one particular moderator, who I presume I'm not allowed name, so I won't.

Name away, avoid elaboration here on your grievances and we can take it to PM to discuss in more detail. A couple of us are considering packing it in so we're looking for no holds barred feedback.

mayordenis

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Name away, avoid elaboration here on your grievances and we can take it to PM to discuss in more detail. A couple of us are considering packing it in so we're looking for no holds barred feedback.

Whats your opinion on the trolling debate?

leninbenjamin

You're driving is pretty good to be fair. You follow the lines and all that...

One thing I would ask the mods though is to be explicit and clear about why you are taking the decision you take. Now the mod warning threads have cleared things up greatly (in fact i'd say they work excellently), but occasionally decisions are made in the heat of the moment and the user is forgotten about.

I think most of the feedback threads that arise from this forum are from mods not properly explaining why they took the decision they did. I know whenever a mod has taken action against me I've had to PM them to get a reason.

A successful forum depends on moderator feedback as much as user feedback. Something to bear in mind imho.