How's our driving...?(forum feedback)

LuckyLloyd

mayordenis wrote: »

Whats your opinion on the trolling debate?

In my opinion (and this is strictly my opinion), there is a small group of posters (not confined to supporters of any one club) whose sole interest when they post on this forum is to prod and rile up specific sets of fans. They are not posting 'honestly', in that they have no genuine interest in debate and discussion that progresses on the basis of new evidence or analysis. Instead, their posts amount to sophistry of the crassest sort, and ultimately produce nothing other than a never ending merry go round of tit for tat bile and nonsense. Some of these posters are well versed in the rules and current practice of the forum, are intelligent people, and therefore manage to consistently hover on or just over the line.

Such posters **** me right off. My personal way of dealing with them as a poster is to ignore and skip over such tripe - but the reality is that many people do not (and should not reasonably be expected to have) such discipline. I would be for harsher sanctions (and ultimate removal) of such posters. However as with all matters regarding the moderation of the forum, I am more than willing to bow to majority opinion.

UnitedIrishman

Think it's fine but would prefer it more relaxed.

I've been on a good few forums in the past that have been basically no-holds barred. About the only thing that was not allowed was personal abuse i.e calling someone a prick. It can be good, funny and debateable without the roof blowing off the whole thing. Abuse of players is another strange situation. Does calling a player a 'donkey' or 'useless waster' count as abuse or saying '****ing wanker xplayer'?

Also, 1 and 2 day bans could be introduced instead of week or two week bans. I got banned at one stage for saying "x will be Ireland manager according to a source of mine." Now I didn't have a problem with being banned because I didn't read a mod note, but rather it was one of the most ridiculous mod notes I've seen. I was told I would be banned until such a manager was put in place.

I reckon let it go a bit more, if it starts getting a bit out of hand then intervene and warn people.

OPENROAD

mayordenis wrote: »

Whats your opinion on the trolling debate?

I am slightly worried that people are starting to use the "trolling" word far too quickly. For example in a match thread and one team scores and poster might post "get in with a "

I would hope that this is not going to be considered trolling, things got quite heated in the Lyon, Liverpool thread during the week and feelings were running high but I would hope that we are not getting to the stage where you can't say anything or express any emotion against a team just because the majority of posters support that team in the match day thread.

OPENROAD

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Also, 1 and 2 day bans could be introduced instead of week or two week bans. .

+1

LuckyLloyd

OPENROAD wrote: »

I am slightly worried that people are starting to use the "trolling" word far too quickly. For example in a match thread and one team scores and poster might post "get in with a "

I would hope that this is not going to be considered trolling, things got quite heated in the Lyon, Liverpool thread during the week and feelings were running high but I would hope that we are not getting to the stage where you can't say anything or express any emotion against a team just because the majority of posters support that team in the match day thread.

Don't really see such incidents as a particular problem, nor would I suggest that we sanitize the forum to such a degree that we can never post negatively about any club. The problem posts primarily occur in a match thread after a match is finished; or in the general team discussion / unique discussion threads on a daily basis.

Headshot

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

A couple of us are considering packing it in so we're looking for no holds barred feedback.

i presume yourself but who else ?

LuckyLloyd

Headshot wrote: »

i presume yourself but who else ?

Not telling!

JPA

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

In my opinion (and this is strictly my opinion), there is a small group of posters (not confined to supporters of any one club) whose sole interest when they post on this forum is to prod and rile up specific sets of fans. They are not posting 'honestly', in that they have no genuine interest in debate and discussion that progresses on the basis of new evidence or analysis. Instead, their posts amount to sophistry of the crassest sort, and ultimately produce nothing other than a never ending merry go round of tit for tat bile and nonsense. Some of these posters are well versed in the rules and current practice of the forum, are intelligent people, and therefore manage to consistently hover on or just over the line.

Such posters **** me right off. My personal way of dealing with them as a poster is to ignore and skip over such tripe - but the reality is that many people do not (and should not reasonably be expected to have) such discipline. I would be for harsher sanctions (and ultimate removal) of such posters. However as with all matters regarding the moderation of the forum, I am more than willing to bow to majority opinion.

I agree with what you say. The ultimate way to deal with so called trolling is completely ignoring the offending post(s). Generally this type of poster is posting for a reaction, nothing else.

Savman

A lot done, more to do :pac:

Headshot

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Not telling!

spoil-sport

green123

things are alot better now that guan yin has gone

kryogen

if im being picky i would say a bt less by the book and a bit more common sense, but the nature of this forum is such that you are all doing a great job

GLaDOS

Have not read through the thread, but I'm very happy with the moderation of this forum. I honestly think this is the hardest forum to keep the peace in and I have no problem with any of the mods.


Only issue I would have is the recent introduction of an automatic ban with an infraction, I judge that to be a little harsh.

post may contain traces of alcohol

Handsome Bob

OPENROAD wrote: »

I would hope that this is not going to be considered trolling, things got quite heated in the Lyon, Liverpool thread during the week and feelings were running high but I would hope that we are not getting to the stage where you can't say anything or express any emotion against a team just because the majority of posters support that team in the match day thread.

I never said you can't express emotion. I've already explained myself fully on this.

There seems to be a problem here where one side thinks they are engaging in "good natured" banter when in reality they are not. They are pissing people off and they KNOW they are pissing people off so how in the blue hell is that "good natured" banter? That's their sole interest in posting on this forum and there's nothing good natured about it. It's pathetic.

mike65

Regarding troller-rific winding up nonsense

click followed by click followed by click followed by click followed by the climax of this move from ntlbell anyone who describes Hyypia and Hamman as grateful mediocrities is clearly a fool or a WUM.

Xavi6

mike65 wrote: »

Regarding troller-rific winding up nonsense

click followed by click followed by click followed by click followed by the climax of this move from ntlbell anyone who describes Hyypia and Hamman as grateful mediocrities is clearly a fool or a WUM.

Not to pick on you Mike, but seeing as we're naming names, your post above illustrates to me what is in fact wrong with the forum, and it's nothing to do with trolling.

IMO blinkers are far worse. In the example above I see absolutely nothing wrong with the initial post. Everything he says is spot on re: Keane, but no one can say a bad word about another club without being pounced upon by that club's fans.

No one is exempt from criticism, yet there are a lot of whingers who go crying foul play for even the slightest negative comment directed at their team. I know, I see the reported posts all the time.

If people learned to accept criticism and realised that not everyone is going to be on their side then there would be a lot less perceived 'trolling' and more interesting debate.

mike65

So you don't think that ntlbell didn't spot an opportunity to push and push and then give us pearls of wisdom on Hyypia and Hamman with the deliberate intention of annoying Liverpool supporters?

Xavi6

mike65 wrote: »

So you don't think that ntlbell didn't spot an opportunity to push and push and then give us pearls of wisdom on Hyypia and Hamman with the deliberate intention of annoying Liverpool supporters?

Maybe he just doesn't know what he's on about.

Maybe he was trolling.

The problem is that it's very difficult to determine who is trolling and who is just stupid on the internet. If posts like that were just ignored then there wouldn't be half the problems. Why the need to reply? Why not just laugh it off and move on to a real debate?

Put it this way, the initial post was fine but because of the reaction I would say that a weakness was seen and exploited. But how do you prove that?

People are too precious at times (myself included). If that wasn't the case we could all have a bit of a laugh and a dig at each other. The way it is now though that's really not possible.

Handsome Bob

Xavi6 wrote: »

The problem is that it's very difficult to determine who is trolling and who is just stupid on the internet. If posts like that were just ignored then there wouldn't be half the problems. Why the need to reply? Why not just laugh it off and move on to a real debate?

Why should people be allowed to indulge in their own bullshit unchallenged? I think it's a sign of weakness to just let it slide.

Xavi6

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Why should people be allowed to indulge in their own bullshit unchallenged? I think it's a sign of weakness to just let it slide.

If you want to challenge it then go ahead, but the point I'm making is don't come crying when you get dragged down to that level.

mike65

I back the nags, and form guides are very useful. We all know the form of regular posters. Most of us don't troll, wind up or act the wanker in "hostile" territory (so to speak) some of us (a small minority) do that constantly - causing disproportionate trouble and discord and yet they pretty much get away with it all the time. If mods are not willing to deal with them then they won't stop - WUMs are the Mods blind spot. And yet call a player or manager a silly rude name once and you get hammered.

green123

Xavi6 wrote: »

there are a lot of whingers who go crying foul play for even the slightest negative comment directed at their team.

If people learned to accept criticism and realised that not everyone is going to be on their side then there would be a lot less perceived 'trolling' and more interesting debate.

Xavi6 wrote: »

People are too precious at times (myself included). If that wasn't the case we could all have a bit of a laugh and a dig at each other. The way it is now though that's really not possible.

100% correct.
and not just in the soccer forum, the whole of boards has this problem.
too many people just looking to take offence just for the sake of it

Thanx 4 The Fish

Trying to combat low level trolling was one of the things we spoke about at length between us when the forum and rules were reviewed before this season started. As has been stated already, those people who are good at it, get away with it because they are good at it and they are not in breach of any one of the forum rules. Now there is also a case for not feeding the trolls, these people, and we know who most of them are, are only out for a negative reaction, so don't give it to them, report a post and move on.

PHB

I think you're all doing a fantastic job. One suggestion I'd like to see is a more aggressive pushing of different megathreads that seem to work quite well. The general PL comparison thread is a great idea and something that I think could be encouraged more. I think the discussion and the problems of moderation all stem from the way that the threads are structured but theres definately been an improvement over the past 3 months.

manutd

I think the mod's do a difficult job very well, but they have come a long way, but still have a long way to go. I think sence should be used, not banning people for a week for say back-seating modding. Maybe have a 2/3 bans.

Savman

mike65 wrote: »

anyone who describes Hyypia and Hamman as grateful mediocrities is clearly a fool or a WUM.

Feck sake, you can't really be that blind dude. If anything that's a perfectly good way of describing them. What probably annoys you more is that it's coming from a poster with a picture of Michael Owen in a Man U jersey (a paradox of the modern game).

Ya gots ta be cool, ya dig?

The Muppet

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Why should people be allowed to indulge in their own bullshit unchallenged? I think it's a sign of weakness to just let it slide.

They're not anyone can challenge anyone else here. Why should anyone be punished fot expressing their opinion (within the rules) irrespective of who that opinion pisses off or winds up.

What's being suggested here is censorship of the forum and that would be huge mistake, everyones opinion here is equal and should be treated as such.

Mikes example demonstrates the problems the mods have , like who could be offended by those posts, who really cares is Ntlbell or anyone else thinks certains players were mediocre or not, we're all capable of making up our own minds on such issues.

Soccer is only a hobby for us, I'm sure most of us have more pressing issues in our lives to get upset over. We come here for a chat and a laugh, some users really need to lighten up.

noodler

Savman wrote: »

Feck sake, you can't really be that blind dude. If anything that's a perfectly good way of describing them. What probably annoys you more is that it's coming from a poster with a picture of Michael Owen in a Man U jersey (a paradox of the modern game).

Ya gots ta be cool, ya dig?

Nothing in the least bit average about either of them.

invincibleirish

Give the larger club threads their own forums and anyone on a wind up in 'em can be dealt with in a strict manner by the moderati. Any thread in the soccer forum itself should allow for divergent POVs to be considered, certain posters in certain club threads are far too quick to get pissy when their precious sensibilities are challenged.

The Muppet

noodler wrote: »

Nothing in the least bit average about either of them.

In your opinion, I may not share that opinion, should I be allowed say that here or is you opinion more important than mine?

noodler

The Muppet wrote: »

In your opinion, I may not share that opinion, should I be aloud say that here or is you opinion more important than mine?

Drogba is average then.

Sound just as stupid to be perfectly honest.

Anyway, I can say what I want without you coming in and inserting a "in my opinion" prefix to it.

The Muppet

noodler wrote: »

Drogba is average then.

Sound just as stupid to be perfectly honest.

Anyway, I can say what I want without you coming in and inserting a "in my opinion" prefix to it.

That's fine by Me, Rooney is average, also fine by me, I certainly wouldn't be bothering the mods with such nonsense. I don't see the importance in reaching mutual agreement on anything, it's never going to happen. We should be capable of forming our own opinions.

Most of what's posted here is opinion, there should be no need to post IMO, unfortunately some users here struggle to understand that.

Funny that you say you should be allowed to say what you like yet support the notion that another user shoud not be allowed say that certain players are mediocre.

whatawaster

Xavi6 wrote: »

Maybe he just doesn't know what he's on about.

Maybe he was trolling.

The problem is that it's very difficult to determine who is trolling and who is just stupid on the internet. If posts like that were just ignored then there wouldn't be half the problems. Why the need to reply? Why not just laugh it off and move on to a real debate?

but they aren't once off occasions. Certain people carry on like this every day. They derail threads and they know they'll derail them because SOMEONE (often me i'm sorry to say) will reply to them and that sets the ball rolling.
They are very careful to stay within the rules, forcing the mods to be subjective in their judgement which they're obviously not willing to do.

Most people would agree that the Soccer forum and particular threads would be much more harmonious and friendly place if they either a)stopped posting there or, more desirably b) cleaned up their acts at the behest of the moderators.

I mainly post on liverpool threads and i can tell you 100% it's not about people saying we're crap, Rafa's crap and Lucas is crap. We can all take criticism if it's reasoned.
I have to say if you think the actions of a few people aren't causing the majority of the problems on this board then you're either not paying attention or just turning a blind eye.

Xavi6

whatawaster wrote: »

I have to say if you think the actions of a few people aren't causing the majority of the problems on this board then you're either not paying attention or just turning a blind eye.

Nobody is turning a blind eye and we do pay attention but can I ask for a solution to this perceived problem?

What do you expect us to do? Ban someone because you (plural) feel that they are on a wind up? Do you want the forum to be censored completely?

Under what existing rule should they be banned/cautioned? And if you don't feel such a rule exists can you offer one that would be reasonable and acceptable?

This thread is for solutions to problems so I'd like to hear some.

The Muppet

Xavi6 wrote: »

Nobody is turning a blind eye and we do pay attention but can I ask for a solution to this perceived problem?

What do you expect us to do? Ban someone because you (plural) feel that they are on a wind up? Do you want the forum to be censored completely?

Under what existing rule should they be banned/cautioned? And if you don't feel such a rule exists can you offer one that would be reasonable and acceptable?

This thread is for solutions to problems so I'd like to hear some.

The only viable solution for this percieved problem is for users to lighten up a bit and not take umberage at other people opinions.

Maybe a trip to a football ground would assist some of them in realising what goes on here is part and parcel of being a football supporter.

whatawaster

Xavi6 wrote: »

Nobody is turning a blind eye and we do pay attention but can I ask for a solution to this perceived problem?

What do you expect us to do? Ban someone because you (plural) feel that they are on a wind up? Do you want the forum to be censored completely?

Under what existing rule should they be banned/cautioned? And if you don't feel such a rule exists can you offer one that would be reasonable and acceptable?

This thread is for solutions to problems so I'd like to hear some.

From the Charter

"Posting provocative or controversial opinions with the intention of winding up other posters will not be tolerated"

If you want to post controversial opinion then you should be prepared to argue cogently and coherently in support of your argument. Repeating the same point over and over again without addressing counter arguments is not advisable. It is your responsibility to ensure that you contribute in a positive manner, that does not mean you have to agree with everyone else but you must avoid deliberate disruption of the forum.

The parts in bold all take place on a daily basis

I don't necessarily want people banned. I'd like them to be given warnings and for their behaviour to be monitored.

Do you think the above points quoted from the charter are breached often? Do you think those rules are policeable? If not, should they be there at all?

whatawaster

The Muppet wrote: »

The only viable solution for this percieved problem is for users to lighten up a bit and not take umberage at other people opinions.

Maybe a trip to a football ground would assist some of them in realising what goes on here is part and parcel of being a football supporter.

if people wanted that they'd go to F365 forums or some other s**t hole.
I post here because there are intelligent posters i can discuss football with

Xavi6

whatawaster wrote: »

The parts in bold all take place on a daily basis

I don't necessarily want people banned. I'd like them to be given warnings and for their behaviour to be monitored.

We tried that but it was thrown back in our faces by being ignored, hence the current rule on yellow cards.

Do you think the above points quoted from the charter are breached often? Do you think those rules are policeable? If not, should they be there at all?

They are policeable to an extent, but not if someone is merely expressing an opinion.

For example, if someone says Rafa is a shit manager because he hasn't won the Premiership are they on a windup? Are they taking the piss or are they right? A case could be argued for either and in such instances there's nothing that can really be done.

whatawaster

Xavi6 wrote: »

We tried that but it was thrown back in our faces by being ignored, hence the current rule on yellow cards.



They are policeable to an extent, but not if someone is merely expressing an opinion.

For example, if someone says Rafa is a shit manager because he hasn't won the Premiership are they on a windup? Are they taking the piss or are they right? A case could be argued for either and in such instances there's nothing that can really be done.

When you say tried that do you mean you warned individual posters or the general warnings on thread titles?

They are perfectly entitled to that opinion, but when you hit them with a counter-argument or ask for an alternative they often either ignore, call you blinkered or accuse people on the thread of ganging up on them.

Handsome Bob

Xavi6 wrote: »

If you want to challenge it then go ahead, but the point I'm making is don't come crying when you get dragged down to that level.

The problem here is if we ignore their opinions, their opinions will spread like wildfire because they go unchallenged, they become the dominating ideal in the forum. Thus, it becomes a forum dominated by the opinions of one set of fans, which rival fans would find unbearable.

I have no problem with contrasting opinions, I have no problem with debate. It's when one side presents an argument, and the othe side just ignores it that I find to be unacceptable because we're just on a constant merryground where discussions stay static instead of moving forward. Thta kind of shit is trolling 101.

LuckyLloyd

There is nothing "precious" about being aghast at the suggestion that Hyppia, Hammann and Riise were "mediocre". And there is everything disingenuous in the claim that they were "grateful mediocrities". When I see posts like that, I make a mental note and skip over them. However, we simply cannot expect everyone to have the ability to do that.

The Muppet may not have a problem if I went into the Utd thread and attempted to portray Rooney as "average" through spurious reasoning. However, a number of posters would feel obliged to argue the point with me. Of course, I would be incredibly wrong, and could be argued down / ridiculed (and with good reason). However, I would no doubt have provoked some emotional responses and whipped up a nice little 40 post + storm. My intentions would not have been honourable - but I could nonetheless hide behind the mantra that I 'was only expressing my opinion' while tittering from behind my keyboard.

Yes, the most effective response to such nonsense is to ignore. But it is not the most realistic aspiration for the smooth running of this forum because we will never reach a stage where the majority of our regular users are in control of their emotions to such an outstanding extent. As such, the simplest fix is to **** our small band of ***** up the arse. There is about five regular users that I would feel perfectly justified in banning from the forum permanently this instant. Of course, I can't do that until a majority opinion agrees that moderation of trolls can become a purely subjective common sense based game.

Xavi6

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yes, the most effective response to such nonsense is to ignore. But it is not the most realistic aspiration for the smooth running of this forum because we will never reach a stage where the majority of our regular users are in control of their emotions to such an outstanding extent. As such, the simplest fix is to **** our small band of ***** up the arse. There is about five regular users that I would feel perfectly justified in banning from the forum permanently this instant. Of course, I can't do that until a majority opinion agrees that moderation of trolls can become a purely subjective common sense based game.

FWIW Lloyd I agree with your suggestion, but I don't see how it could possibly be okayed.

I don't mean to come across as arguing for one side over the other because at this stage I think we (the mods) are getting to the end of out tether with the whole thing.

I just want it sorted once and for all.

copacetic

Xavi6 wrote: »

For example, if someone says Rafa is a shit manager because he hasn't won the Premiership are they on a windup? Are they taking the piss or are they right? A case could be argued for either and in such instances there's nothing that can really be done.

Thats not true, plenty can be done. Moderation is entirely a judgement call, to say 'nothing can be done' simply isn't true, the moderaters can come down hard or not on these things, their hands aren't tied. If this post you desribe for example was a one off then you might give the poster the benefit of the doubt and see what else they post.

Once they have weeks, months or even years of similar posts you might actually do something about it, rather than keep giving them the benefit of the doubt. The only thing that can be done about low level trolling is take the longer view on peoples posts. This isn't being done and some people are being let away with it and knowing this are encouraged to take the piss more and more.

Handsome Bob

copacetic wrote: »

Thats not true, plenty can be done. Moderation is entirely a judgement call, to say 'nothing can be done' simply isn't true, the moderaters can come down hard or not on these things, their hands aren't tied. If this post you desribe for example was a one off then you might give the poster the benefit of the doubt and see what else they post.

Once they have weeks, months or even years of similar posts you might actually do something about it, rather than keep giving them the benefit of the doubt. The only thing that can be done about low level trolling is take the longer view on peoples posts. This isn't being done and some people are being let away with it and knowing this are encouraged to take the piss more and more.

To be fair it really is a difficult situation. I imagine that if the mods did come down hard on trolling, then feedback and helpdesk would explode, dominated by disgruntled soccer posters. It's not up to the mods, it's up to the posters to ****ing grow up.

copacetic

LZ5by5 wrote: »

To be fair it really is a difficult situation. I imagine that if the mods did come down hard on trolling, then feedback and helpdesk would explode, dominated by disgruntled soccer posters. It's not up to the mods, it's up to the posters to ****ing grow up.

I absolutely agreee it is a difficult situation and I wouldn't want to be in their place, they do a good job, imo this issue is the key to where the forum ends up.

Trolling is difficult to moderate across boards, there is always the 'this is just my opinion' argument. However the mods are there to call BS on this (or not), thats their call. eg say we have a user whose every opinion is that anything to do with say Villa is muck, they spend every waking hour on any thread discussing villa 'debating' each and every point that anyone makes, constantly arguing that every player is terrible, the manager is terrible, the fans are terrible the owners are terrible etc etc etc. Should any real villa fan have to put up with that? How is the soccer forum going to grow bigger and bigger when real discussion gets drowned out by the noisy shout at the top of the lungs hooligan element?

The reason its easier to do nothing is because the people who have a problem with these posters generally don't want to cause storms on feedback or helpdesk. The element that would cause such storms are exactly the kind to do something about.

The mods should let it go until its obvious that the person has nothing of value to offer the soccer forum, then close the door after them.

(This is all imo of course, as I said moderation is a lot better, more open and done with more class in recent times than it was in the past)

Mr Alan

i think the mods are doing a great job in the main.

Much like the refs in England the big problem imo is consistancy.

For example, not long ago i recd an infraction for the following exchange....

Shiverineskimo wrote:

I see Tevez is havin another go at Fergie in the press.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,195...510803,00.html

to which i responded with......

Mr Alan wrote:

i'm sure Mr Ferguson will retain his beautifully dignified silence re: City & Tevez....oh wait...

as this was quite soon after Fergusons ghastly comments about City & his attempts at painting Tevez out as a treacherous poor player.

My comment was entirely reasonable, yet i recd an infraction.

On questioning the mod about it, i was informed that because the comment i made was in the Utd thread & would clearly cause a reaction that it was a troll & that this was the stance the mods were talking for the coming season with superthreads & match threads for specific teams.

I accepted that this was the new way it was going to be & informed the mod that i thought the intention was good, but that it would be near impossible to enforce because of the consistancy issue.

Since then, numerous comments that are guarunteed to get a reaction have been made in match & super threads by the usual suspects, yet these comments (despite reporting them for the first few weeks of the season) went unpunished in the main-eg: only the other day Boggles saying that Liverpool are not a big team in a Liverpool match thread was deemed to not be an worthy of an infraction. Or whoever it was that said that Hypia was an average premier league player in a Liverpool related thread.

Now these comments that were ALWAYS going to annoy people, but they weren't wasn't punished & in fact were defended by mods (i agree with the mods btw). You may think i'm saying they should have been infracted, i'm not, i don't think it should, but again....its consistancy that annoys me.

Again though, in the main, i think the mods do a great job in a very difficult forum to moderate. Cheers lads.

ntlbell

The Muppet wrote: »

They're not anyone can challenge anyone else here. Why should anyone be punished fot expressing their opinion (within the rules) irrespective of who that opinion pisses off or winds up.

What's being suggested here is censorship of the forum and that would be huge mistake, everyones opinion here is equal and should be treated as such.

Mikes example demonstrates the problems the mods have , like who could be offended by those posts, who really cares is Ntlbell or anyone else thinks certains players were mediocre or not, we're all capable of making up our own minds on such issues.

Soccer is only a hobby for us, I'm sure most of us have more pressing issues in our lives to get upset over. We come here for a chat and a laugh, some users really need to lighten up.

I'm not going to get too involved in this thread, the main reason is it could be very beneficial to the over all running of the forum.

But I just wanted to reply to this post.

It's very rare that I make fly by comments like the one in question here. Yes a lot of the time my comments will spark emotion, will get a rise out of a lot of posters who can't control that emotion. But for the vast majority of these comments I make I back them up with reasons as to why i made them and I'm more than willing to discuss them.

For me this is the difference between a troll and a i'm not sure what to call it.

I will stand by what i said and prove or at least try to prove why i said what i said.

a discussion if you will which is what the forum is about?

some mods will recognize that for what it is others will jump to the trolling assumption right of the bat.

for me a good mod can take a number of elements about a poster into consideration and make a well informed judgement call on it.

It's not for me, if it should be modded more harshly etc but that the mods should try and work on consistency, get the basics right, be able to work out the difference between troll and someone just going against the grain (and not for the sake of it) but actually has a point.

Mr Alan

Ntl; your sig.

A pic of Michael Owen in a Utd jersey, with the comment Utd Legend (which was there before he ever did anything iirc)

Two negative comments about Liverpool.

And a Michael Owen -Vs- Tevez goals in the Champions League (a comp Tevez is not playing in) scoreboard.

What about that sig is designed NOT to annoy people & get a reaction out of them?

ntlbell

ntlbell wrote: »

I'm not going to get too involved in this thread, the main reason is it could be very beneficial to the over all running of the forum.

But I just wanted to reply to this post.

It's very rare that I make fly by comments like the one in question here. Yes a lot of the time my comments will spark emotion, will get a rise out of a lot of posters who can't control that emotion. But for the vast majority of these comments I make I back them up with reasons as to why i made them and I'm more than willing to discuss them.

For me this is the difference between a troll and a i'm not sure what to call it.

I will stand by what i said and prove or at least try to prove why i said what i said.

a discussion if you will which is what the forum is about?

some mods will recognize that for what it is others will jump to the trolling assumption right of the bat.

for me a good mod can take a number of elements about a poster into consideration and make a well informed judgement call on it.

It's not for me, if it should be modded more harshly etc but that the mods should try and work on consistency, get the basics right, be able to work out the difference between troll and someone just going against the grain (and not for the sake of it) but actually has a point.

But if someone is going against the grain ALL the time, surely they must be dealt with?

whatawaster

A prime example of what's wrong on another thread.

If someone calls Rafa "evil" for selling Robbie Keane, is that a reasonable opinion? Should a poster not know that will inflame people?

Saying he was wrong to sell Keane is a valid opinion, and one i'd argue with, but accept as a valid one.