How's our driving...?(forum feedback)

ntlbell

5starpool wrote: »

How could they stop it Lloyd? Unless Thunderdome rules prevent soccer forum slagging matches between willing participants, then it's perfectly fine.

I was going to phrase this a bit differently, but I was afraid of ending up in ntlbells sig

indeed, and how would they define soccer forum members? we deal with lots of members on the soc on various other fora on boards

nicklauski

I reckon its just about right. I keep to the United thread and match threads and dont go invading other teams threads looking for trouble, so there grand by me.

LuckyLloyd

ntlbell wrote: »

having differences is not an issue.

having different oponions is not an issue

having different personalities is not an issue.

The important thing for any "team" which is how i think anyway you should be is you collectivley decide on the best way forward and everyone stick to it.

you rattle out the differences and once you then DECIDE on something everyone rows in the same direction.

it's how any group of people move forward.

the problem is everyone's rowing in their own direction which brings an awful lot of inconsistency.

i feel like i'm charing a team meeting with interns in work


now going forward.

:rolleyes:

I wish we could consult over every decision we make before we make it. It isn't possible. Neither are we all "rowing in their own direction".

LuckyLloyd

5starpool wrote: »

How could they stop it Lloyd? Unless Thunderdome rules prevent soccer forum slagging matches between willing participants, then it's perfectly fine.

I was going to phrase this a bit differently, but I was afraid of ending up in ntlbells sig

ntlbell wrote: »

indeed, and how would they define soccer forum members? we deal with lots of members on the soc on various other fora on boards

Okay, give it a go it you don't believe me. Assuming the Admin team are idiots and wouldn't be capable of identifying where a thread in thunderdrome stems from seems a bit naive to me.

ntlbell

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

:rolleyes:

I wish we could consult over every decision we make before we make it. It isn't possible. Neither are we all "rowing in their own direction".

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

they really add something to these conversations don't they.

my point was (not for every decision) but for the over all running of it.

If there's grey areas or things that are not agreed upon, sit down sort them out choose a way to deal with them and everyone then goes that way

If you watch who I consider to be excellent mods, they all deal with people in a certain way, they have a way of wording posts not to further ignite a user. they can defuse situations with a few short sentences

they don't throw around :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: when someone is trying to put across a point.

they listen and engage :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: isn't going to get anyone understand the point anymore or why they might be wrong.

as has been said all ready here and i'm not talking about you mods who induldge in trolling and not a word is said, post after post is reported and nothing ever happens.

i've had discussions with users here who have reported numerous posts from them as have i and nothing is ever done.

if mods are getting away with acting the total clown in any fora, what sort of president does it set for the users?

less :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: and more reasonable debate.

Mr.Nice Guy

I can sympathise with those who feel that posts designed to be provocative should be dealt with however I have a real problem with what certain people feel constitutes provocation.

Having read over the thread I'm very surprised that people are actually so upset at certain players being questioned about their ability that they would advocate mods reprimand those who make the claims. Come on people, the idea that a person be deemed to be a troll because they call a player's ability into question is laughable. I dread to think what this place would morph into if people were being banned for comments that challenged popular perceptions.

Person 1: "I think Gerrard is finished as a player."

Person 2: ":rolleyes:. Clearly a troll."

Mod: "Person 1 has been banned for provocative posting. Guys lay off calling certain player's abilities into question, you know the rules."

Is this the kind of forum people want? Sounds ghastly. What a horribly sanitised and conformist place the board would be with people (especially new contributors) afraid to air their thoughts in case they are reported for trolling! This is a direction that ought to be avoided at all costs.

In a situation like the above, a fan has three choices. Either engage, ignore or - and I would do this only as a last resort - report the post. If it IS an attempt at a wind-up you are not compelled to reply to it. People really need to not only look at others but also look at themselves and take personal responsibility for how they choose to deal with matters.

In my opinion, being free to question every player's ability is not only fine but frankly a necessity on a soccer board. As long as the opinion is qualified then I don't think there is a problem. If the opinion has not been qualified, i.e. if it's along the lines of, "Rooney/Torres is sh*t" then I think it's quite likely to be an attempt to stir up an argument without merit.

In such a situation as the above, again there are three choices - engage, ignore or report. I would be unlikely to report the above post. Maybe I would engage and ask the person to explain the comment. If the person does so, fair enough. If however the response was another one line retort such as "He's just sh*t, simple as" then I think this could be construed as trolling. I would therefore be pretty reluctant to continue engaging with this person and would either ignore or report the post. I rarely do the latter to be honest as I can argue pretty well when I want to. :pac:

As I said already in the thread I think it's nigh on impossible to decipher genuine views from provocative posts via an internet message site, thus there can never be 100% certainty. I'm just trying to suggest that people not be so quick to brand the "'T" word about when they come across a view they do not agree with. Engage or ignore or, if necessary, report the post but I feel a culture of branding people trolls is something that needs to be strongly discouraged. It is unhelpful and only serves to position people into various tribal corners.

We all presumably desire to engage with each other and the best way for this is through taking greater personal responsibility and showing some cop-on, not asking for mods to become ban-hammer waving Stalinists cleaning and purging posts that do not please the majority view of the various cliques on the board.

Thanx 4 The Fish

ntlbell wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

they really add something to these conversations don't they.

my point was (not for every decision) but for the over all running of it.

If there's grey areas or things that are not agreed upon, sit down sort them out choose a way to deal with them and everyone then goes that way

If you watch who I consider to be excellent mods, they all deal with people in a certain way, they have a way of wording posts not to further ignite a user. they can defuse situations with a few short sentences

they don't throw around :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: when someone is trying to put across a point.

they listen and engage :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: isn't going to get anyone understand the point anymore or why they might be wrong.

as has been said all ready here and i'm not talking about you mods who induldge in trolling and not a word is said, post after post is reported and nothing ever happens.

i've had discussions with users here who have reported numerous posts from them as have i and nothing is ever done.

if mods are getting away with acting the total clown in any fora, what sort of president does it set for the users?

less :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: and more reasonable debate.

In fairness, I think that the rolleyes sums up what I thought of your post too.

We do rattle out the decisions and work them through.

We do discuss ways forward.

We do not all row in different directions, regardless of whether we are or are not of the same opinion on an issue, once a consensus on an issue is decided, we do go forward with it as a team

We do not consult on every decision we make but then neither does any management team. If we see that one or the other of us is either going off the reservation a bit we talk between us and reign each other in. If a situation arises that we have not experienced before and there is only a few of us or even only one on line when a decision needs to be made, a decision will be made and then we will discuss it between ourselves on the Soccer Mods forum to see if we went the right way and if not we come up with a better way.

Just because you do not see this going on does not mean it does not happen.

I have recently had a similar conversation with my children about decision making within our family, but I would rather not draw any comparisons between that and this.

ntlbell

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

In fairness, I think that the rolleyes sums up what I thought of your post too.

We do rattle out the decisions and work them through.

We do discuss ways forward.

We do not all row in different directions, regardless of whether we are or are not of the same opinion on an issue, once a consensus on an issue is decided, we do go forward with it as a team

We do not consult on every decision we make but then neither does any management team. If we see that one or the other of us is either going off the reservation a bit we talk between us and reign each other in. If a situation arises that we have not experienced before and there is only a few of us or even only one on line when a decision needs to be made, a decision will be made and then we will discuss it between ourselves on the Soccer Mods forum to see if we went the right way and if not we come up with a better way.

Just because you do not see this going on does not mean it does not happen.

I have recently had a similar conversation with my children about decision making within our family, but I would rather not draw any comparisons between that and this.

Your right, I don't see it, but now that you have put it across in a nice mannerly way I have a better understanding of what you do do.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: doesn't tell me anything

SlickRic

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Person 1: "I think Gerrard is finished as a player."

Person 2: ":rolleyes:. Clearly a troll."

Mod: "Person 1 has been banned for provocative posting. Guys lay off calling certain player's abilities into question, you know the rules."

i very rarely see this scenario happen, to be perfectly honest.

most times people get pis*ed off, from what i've seen, is when posts are worded in a patronising or controversial manner.

most people have no problem discussing something rationally from what i can see.

i maintain that the tone of posts is what riles people up, not the underlying (often good) point being made. and people sometimes struggle to rise above the tone in response, thus it deteriorates further and further.

Mr.Nice Guy

SlickRic wrote: »

i very rarely see this scenario happen, to be perfectly honest.

most times people get pis*ed off, from what i've seen, is when posts are worded in a patronising or controversial manner.

most people have no problem discussing something rationally from what i can see.

i maintain that the tone of posts is what riles people up, not the underlying (often good) point being made. and people sometimes struggle to rise above the tone in response, thus it deteriorates further and further.

Oh I know this scenario doesn't happen. I'm just trying to illustrate what I think this place would ultimately become if the tougher stance that some are advocating was adopted. We would have people having to walk on eggshells.

I accept the tone of posts is always going to be a problem using this type of medium, but while it's easy to misinterpret the tone of a post, one wonders why we should seek harsh reprimands for something that is so difficult to determine.

therecklessone

Every time I respond to one of these threads I get accused of selectively responding to certain posters and ignoring others, so I'll make this clear from the start: this is a feedback thread, and I am as entitled as anyone to give feedback. I don't have the time or the patience right now to engage with everyone, that doesn't mean I'm ignoring what has been said.

cson wrote: »

I will say this much; some bans handed out seem very harsh. I know theres a fine line to be toed regarding banter but one of two of those who took complaints to feedback were justified imo. The flipside of that is there is some awful **** let go sometimes on some threads - the Rangers Fans thread yesterday being a case in point. I know The Recklessone did mop up that particular mess and did give a warning but personally that would have lock written all over it to me.

I see your point, but locking threads should not become too common an occurrence, are we really at a stage where we cannot trust posters to discuss a topic without resorting to point scoring? There are glaring examples of threads started to cause trouble, we nuke them when we can, but the behaviour of Rangers fans that night was topical. People continually ask to be allowed discuss these issues like adults, I afforded them that chance.

cson wrote: »

To be honest a bit of respect would go a long way in here. Respect for other posters, their opinions, their clubs would stop a lot of messing.

I have said for years that what this forum needs is people being a little slower to give offence, and a little slower to take it. You are right, there is a need for more respect.

mike65 wrote: »

I voted to be more relaxed. And yet I know I'd swing a mighty ban hammer against that type of poster that spends his/her time deliberately winding up punters on certain long running threads and yet always staying within the rules so getting away with it and causing others to get infracted as they get frustrated with same.

Since you were happy to point the finger later on, I am going to draw a conclusion from this post. You want the freedom to call other posters trolls and wums, but also want us to be harsher in dealing with them. IMO the serial responders on this forum are as guilty of disruption as the trolls themselves, and it has moved far beyond responding to the trolls...every slight on a club or manager or a player is now deemed trolling. That is a problem.

Villain wrote: »

The problem isn't so much how harsh or not the mods are, the problem is that mods are too slow to deal with big game threads. A lot of these threads have a lot of quick action as threads grow quickly but mods often aren't around when needed the most.

I brought up an idea in feedback where there would be a panel of part time mods that would be called upon for big game weekends to ensure there always mods around when needed, and ideally the part time mods called upon would not be supporters of either team.

Mods not being around does not cause people to act the bollox, posters need to take responsibility for their own actions, and tbh this forum would be a much better place if that happened. This isn't the moderator's forum, this is your forum, and it's time people started to show it a little TLC.

I don't think your suggestion is workable:

1. Temp mods still need modding powers, so they show up on the mod list, and so people expect them to mod. I've been away on business all week, but I still had people PMing me about moderation.

2. Iago, myself and LuckyLloyd (only named because I've been around for the other two lads starting off) can all attest to the time it takes to bed in as a mod...it does take time to start to see things from this perspective. You can't dip in and out (effectively) for a few weekends a year.

3. I will guarantee you that users will not view temp mods with the same level of respect as the permanent mods... people will appeal their decisions to us, no matter what we do to state there is no seniority.

4. TBH, what you are proposing is that we arrange to have mods online for big weekends...when boards.ie starts to pay me I'll accept a schedule or roster, until then I have a life to lead, as will anyone who volunteers for the role you're suggesting.

Villain wrote: »

You see I understand that and I agree with it, but I sometimes wonder if people who post here have actually been to PL matches because that kind of the over the top banter is part and parcel of the game.

At yesterday's game I called the ref a cúnt, the linesman a tubby little sh1t, and repeatedly referred to the Sunderland fans as dirty norveners.

Last week I was called a dirty Yid cúnt, and spent the 2nd half watching Spurs and Arsenal fans offering each other outside for a row. There's also the matter of a song about a certain manager being a paedophile.

The week before I f'ed and b'ed all game, and had a row with the four mouthpieces who sit behind me who slate our players every week.

Part and parcel of the game? Yes. Something that will make this forum a better place to post? Absolutely not.

Bandit12

Moderating is way over the top. I'm a member of a good few soccer forums and imo the mods are far to quick to stop a good arguement.

mormank

ntlbell wrote: »

I don't see what the sig has to do with it.

I didn't say I don't wind people up, naturally my opinions will wind people up who don't agree with them if they're the type who can't control their own emotions.

Considering I'm a united fan those opinions will be of liverpool fans more than anyone else.

I can't wind you up, nor can i wind anyone else up.

people wind themselves up I have no control over their actions or responses.

I was just trying to point out the differences from your average troll to the _majority_ of my statements. will be backed up and i will do the best to help someone else understand why i have them and they're entitled to show me why they have theirs.

if we're open to it, we both might actually learn something.

But again, I'm trying to give more of an understanding, and you're more interested into trying to make me look bad.

who cares if you and your mates rib eachother. thats like telling a racist joke and saying that its ok cos your black friend is ok with it! :rolleyes:
you know full well that the owen transfer is one of the most exocative of the last decade! you know you are just trying to annoy people with your sig. dont act stupid. my mates do it to me. difference is, we are not mates.

therecklessone

mormank wrote: »

you know full well that the owen transfer is one of the most exocative of the last decade! you know you are just trying to annoy people with your sig.

To be quite honest, if people can't look at that picture and either (a) laugh it off, or (b) ignore it, then they shouldn't be allowed out on their own.

And that's coming from the person most likely to be voted Nazi Mod of the Year 2009.

Handsome Bob

therecklessone wrote: »

To be quite honest, if people can't look at that picture and either (a) laugh it off, or (b) ignore it, then they shouldn't be allowed out on their own.

And that's coming from the person most likely to be voted Nazi Mod of the Year 2009.

It doesn't change the fact that he's trying to piss people off. If someone is trying to get a rise out of me but I ignore it, me ignoring him makes that person no less of a wind up merchant.

flahavaj

therecklessone wrote: »

At yesterday's game I called the ref a cúnt, the linesman a tubby little sh1t, and repeatedly referred to the Sunderland fans as dirty norveners.

Wouldn't like to sit beside you at a match to be honest.

Thanx 4 The Fish

flahavaj wrote: »

Wouldn't like to sit beside you at a match to be honest.

Mate, if you have problems with that then you would definitly not like to be anywhere near me at a game, be it Bray wanderers, Telford, Shrewsbury or in the Kop at Anfield.

gosplan

Excellent modding tbh. If anything I'd make it a bit harsher.

There are experienced posters here who are basically just wind up merchants.

I can think of a few United fans who spend most of their time posting in the Liverpool threads and vice versa.

They don't really break rules but as they know what they're doing but they're not good for the forum.

Just my opinion though, very good stuff from the mods in general.

flahavaj

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

Mate, if you have problems with that then you would definitly not like to be anywhere near me at a game.

I just wouldn't be bothered roaring abuse at opposition fans at a match myself thats all.

flahavaj

flahavaj wrote: »

I just wouldn't be bothered roaring abuse at opposition fans at a match myself thats all.

That's what makes more a great atmosphere though.

flahavaj

rarnes1 wrote: »

That's what makes more a great atmosphere though.

Surely you can generate a good atmosphere at a match with out resorting to such sub-literate drivel as "dirty norveners" (complete with English accent)?

eZe^

Mr Alan wrote: »

for example, if someone says Rio Ferdnand is ****e. they don't deserve a right to post on the forum & a ban would be fitting!

I disagree whole heartedly. When I'm watching a game live and I see a player do something bad, I could quite easily post in a match thread saying 'Higuain is sh*t', just in jest of him making a mistake. However, that doesn't mean I think he is actually a bad player, it's all about context. Obviously if I said it to rile people up I deserve and infraction, but that's not always the case.

Overall the driving is pretty good, need to work on parallel parking and reversing around a corner though.

SDTimeout

Forum's good, Alot of comments can be taken the wrong way . Tongue in cheek not spotted or just taken the wrong way but that's down to how the poster makes the comment.

Agree with the above also, At the emirates last week my seats were in the upper teir, No bad comments at spurs where i was yet the atmosphere was buzzing . Yet seeing them on the streets after acting the complete clowns one on either side of the road. It's not needed in football

therecklessone

flahavaj wrote: »

Surely you can generate a good atmosphere at a match with out resorting to such sub-literate drivel as "dirty norveners" (complete with English accent)?

You're welcome to start a thread on it, but seriously, is this the place for it?

If you've further contributions on moderation or how the forum can be a better place then fire away.

Johnny Utah

I think some of the mods are a bit of a joke tbh. I recently received a week's ban (from a mod who happened to be a Liverpool supporter) for merely providing an honest and accurate opinion on Rafa Benitez. See here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=62610973#post62610973


I made a number of posts on this thread and I think my posts were cogent and coherent. The fact that Liverpool have lost a number of important matches since I posted these comments is a clear indication that I was correct in my original analysis.

I think this ban was very harsh and I'm quite disappointed with it as I think I am a good contributor to the soccer forum. At the same time, I have reported numerous other posts where the comments are much more offensive, and yet there is no action taken by the mods, so I can only conclude that there are double standards being employed by some mods in the soccer forum.

flahavaj

flahavaj wrote: »

Surely you can generate a good atmosphere at a match with out resorting to such sub-literate drivel as "dirty norveners" (complete with English accent)?

Ever been to a united-pool game or similar? It's hardly a friendly affair !!

Sorry, I not sure who you support.

Handsome Bob

Johnny Utah wrote: »

I think some of the mods are a bit of a joke tbh. I recently received a week's ban (from a mod who happened to be a Liverpool supporter) for merely providing an honest and accurate opinion on Rafa Benitez. See here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=62610973#post62610973


I made a number of posts on this thread and I think my posts were cogent and coherent. The fact that Liverpool have lost a number of important matches since I posted these comments is a clear indication that I was correct in my original analysis.

I think this ban was very harsh and I'm quite disappointed with it as I think I am a good contributor to the soccer forum. At the same time, I have reported numerous other posts where the comments are much more offensive, and yet there is no action taken by the mods, so I can only conclude that there are double standards being employed by some mods in the soccer forum.

You called him a clown, you're not allowed to verbally abuse people. That's why you got a yellow.

Theresalwaysone

I find it funny that certain Liverpool fans in this thread are giving out about certain United fans trying to wind them up.


It is definitely a case of people of people in glass houses...

I find the modding pretty good overall.

LuckyLloyd

eZe^ wrote: »

I disagree whole heartedly. When I'm watching a game live and I see a player do something bad, I could quite easily post in a match thread saying 'Higuain is sh*t', just in jest of him making a mistake. However, that doesn't mean I think he is actually a bad player, it's all about context. Obviously if I said it to rile people up I deserve and infraction, but that's not always the case.

Yeah that's grand, people will type silly things when a match is in progress because they are caught up in the emotion of the whole thing. So, Torres gets the better of Vidic or Ferdinand to score and someone might type in "lol Vidic / Ferdinand are awful". No - one should get too hot under the collar there, because when Torres misses chances he should score Liverpool fans type in rubbish like "Torres you muppet argh!!". That is all heat of the moment type stuff.

BUT

It is not those posts that people have a problem with. It is the posts where people type stuff like "Ferdinand is average" / "Gerrard is finished" / Martin O' Neill is the finest manager working in the Premiership" and weave 10 sentences of sophistry to 'back up their opinion' that cause the problems. When contributions of this nature are coming from posters that have thousands of posts on this forum to their name (or have recently joined!), and seem well aware of the type of reaction it will spark is when I decide "nope, you're deliberately being a twat...again".

LuckyLloyd

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

I find it funny that certain Liverpool fans in this thread are giving out about certain United fans trying to wind them up.


It is definitely a case of people of people in glass houses...

Just to nip something in the bud:

I would personally ban a couple of posters on both sides of the Utd / Liverpool divide permanently if I had a free reign. And as a mod team, we are fully conscious and aware that no one side or club has a monopoly on the bile that is thrown around the forum on a daily basis.

flahavaj

rarnes1 wrote: »

Ever been to a united-pool game or similar? It's hardly a friendly affair !!

Sorry, I not sure who you support.

Started a new thread as I think its an interesting debate.

Apologies to the mods for going off topic.:)

PHB

There's a difference between banter and trolling. My sig is banter. It's a jibe at Liverpool fans. But nobody would call for it to be banned. Because its good natured banter, what we all do down at the pub and with friends. Trolling is just different, and its clear to most people why.

Theresalwaysone

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Just to nip something in the bud:

I would personally ban a couple of posters on both sides of the Utd / Liverpool divide permanently if I had a free reign. And as a mod team, we are fully conscious and aware that no one side or club has a monopoly on the bile that is thrown around the forum on a daily basis.

Yeah I wasnt suggesting the mods were being biased though.

It seem that some Liverpool posters feel very aggrieved by the level of "trolling" and "winding up" and are coming in here whinging and complaining about it all the time failing to see that their own fans are guilty of the same offences.

I dont see a way to stop it though. People will just have to learn to ignore it and get on with it. There is an ignore list on for a reason so "getting frustrated" is no excuse for personal abuse and lashing out says more about your self control than anything else.

therecklessone

PHB wrote: »

There's a difference between banter and trolling. My sig is banter. It's a jibe at Liverpool fans. But nobody would call for it to be banned. Because its good natured banter, what we all do down at the pub and with friends. Trolling is just different, and its clear to most people why.

Unless I'm not seeing something here, are you suggesting Liverpool fans were all in favour of a no vote for Lisbon?

Cos mad skillz if you are...:D

Johnny Utah

LZ5by5 wrote: »

You called him a clown, you're not allowed to verbally abuse people. That's why you got a yellow.

I wouldn't call that abuse. Calling someone a "clown" isn't obscene or offensive in the same way as using a profanity might be. Nevertheless, I still think it is a fairly accurate description and if you restrain posters from providing any sort of criticism on a player/club/manager, what sort of forum would you end up with?


Besides, I backed up my opinion with a number of coherent points, so I honestly think that the ban was very harsh and unwarranted.

Villain

therecklessone wrote: »

4. TBH, what you are proposing is that we arrange to have mods online for big weekends...when boards.ie starts to pay me I'll accept a schedule or roster, until then I have a life to lead, as will anyone who volunteers for the role you're suggesting.

That attitude is exactly what is wrong here aka I'm a MOD and if I'm free I'll mod in the mean time everyone should be behave, in theory that might work but in practice not a chance.

TBH if the mods aren't willing to make sure 1 mod is around for the big games I think you need to find more mods because you can have all the rules in the world but if no-one is around to implement them when they are really needed you haven't a chance. I have seen plenty of mods in this forum over the years and tbh most of them are excellent when they are around that has always been the problem and still remains the problem.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Villain wrote: »

That attitude is exactly what is wrong here aka I'm a MOD and if I'm free I'll mod in the mean time everyone should be behave, in theory that might work but in practice not a chance.

TBH if the mods aren't willing to make sure 1 mod is around for the big games I think you need to find more mods because you can have all the rules in the world but if no-one is around to implement them when they are really needed you haven't a chance. I have seen plenty of mods in this forum over the years and tbh most of them are excellent when they are around that has always been the problem and still remains the problem.

This goes back to my previous post on the topic of people not seeing something done so they think nothing is happening. As a mod team we are always sure at least one of us is available when something big is on the horizon, just because we do not go around with a ban hammer or delete threads or action your reported post does not mean we are not there and just because we do not post every couple of mins on a thread does not mean we are not about either. If TRO and LL are away then I will be around or Xavi or Dub or Iago, just because we do not make our lives revolve around the moderation of the forum does not mean that we do not look out for it and it operation. If all of us are going to be offline then we will get a cat mod to cover for us but so long as I have been involved with this bunch of mods, there has never been an occasion where we have not had at least one about. There are a few threads on the Soccer Mods forum letting each of us know when another will not be around and we between us always have cover, be it one of us or a cat-mod, it may not be all of us but it is enough to ensure that things go smoothly.

So go on, man up, when was the last time a big game went modless?

The Muppet

Johnny Utah wrote: »

I wouldn't call that abuse. Calling someone a "clown" isn't obscene or offensive in the same way as using a profanity might be. Nevertheless, I still think it is a fairly accurate description and if you restrain posters from providing any sort of criticism on a player/club/manager, what sort of forum would you end up with?


Besides, I backed up my opinion with a number of coherent points, so I honestly think that the ban was very harsh and unwarranted.

Why did you use that term though? you gave the mod reason to ban you, You could have made the points you did without calling him a clown and I doubt you would have been banned.

Clown is a pretty mild term but if it was let slide next time it could be something stronger and so on until we have real abuse being hurled around the place and nobody want's that. People should be able to express themselves in public without resorting to derogatory terms or abuse.

Villain

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

This goes back to my previous post on the topic of people not seeing something done so they think nothing is happening. As a mod team we are always sure at least one of us is available when something big is on the horizon, just because we do not go around with a ban hammer or delete threads or action your reported post does not mean we are not there and just because we do not post every couple of mins on a thread does not mean we are not about either. If TRO and LL are away then I will be around or Xavi or Dub, just because we do not make our lives revolve around the moderation of the forum does not mean that we do not look out for it. There are a few threads on the Soccer Mods forum letting each of us know when another will not be around and we between us always have cover, it may not be all of us but it is enough to ensure that things go smoothly.

So go on, man up, when was the last time a big game went modless?

Well tbh having mods around for big game threads that aren't visible is a bit like having a garda checkpoint without any Gardai.

I'm not saying it happens every week but I certainly have seen many big game threads spiral out of control without a mod been seen, I'm not talking over the past few weeks or months here I'm talking Years.

I appreciate what you have said though and think its great if thats what you are doing now its just a pity your co-mod couldn't have said that rather the "I have a life and I'll be around when I feel like it" kind of response

Thanx 4 The Fish

Villain wrote: »

Well tbh having mods around for big game threads that aren't visible is a bit like having a garda checkpoint without any Gardai.

I'm not saying it happens every week but I certainly have seen many big game threads spiral out of control without a mod been seen, I'm not talking over the past few weeks or months here I'm talking Years.

I appreciate what you have said though and think its great if thats what you are doing now its just a pity your co-mod couldn't have said that rather the "I have a life and I'll be around when I feel like it" kind of response

No it isn't, mods do not have to be seen, if there is nothing to punish or no need to do anything then a mod may never need to contribute to a thread on a match day or any day. Mods do not have to be seen, they just need to be available when called upon to arbitrate on a contentious issue.

In the past years we never had the level of communication between the soccer mods team that we do now. We have a forum to chat in and there are a lot more of us now than there has been in the past years. I cannot remember a time in recent memory when there has not been a mod or two about, regardless of whether there is a game on.

One of the problems that I and the rest of the mods are having with this thread, I think, is that there is a lot of things people are saying that are completely untrue or have no place in this thread. The title is how's our driving, not how was our driving or in the past 5 years have you seen any of these people involved in a crash. We are asking about how people think the forum is running NOW. We are looking for constructive feedback about things that we can work on now if necessary and people throwing it all off kilter by accusing us of things that this group have not been culpable of and no mods of soccer can have been accused of in years does not help. I have already been accused of banning a guy because I am a Pool fan and he slagged off Rafa, the fact that he was in breach of the charter seems to make very little difference to him as long as he can beat his drum here, he'll be fine, not really what we are here for though is it?

PHB

therecklessone wrote: »

Unless I'm not seeing something here, are you suggesting Liverpool fans were all in favour of a no vote for Lisbon?

Cos mad skillz if you are...:D

Darn forgot I changed it Back to normal now!

Villain

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

No it isn't, mods do not have to be seen, if there is nothing to punish or no need to do anything then a mod may never need to contribute to a thread on a match day or any day. Mods do not have to be seen, they just need to be available when called upon to arbitrate on a contentious issue.

Well thats a matter of opinion really its like choosing a security strategy for a pub, do you have the bouncers stand in the background not seen and then jump when something happens. Or do you have the bouncers out making their presence known hoping to deter any problems before they arrise. If you chosen the background type approach thats the wrong one imo, just my opinion though

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

In the past years we never had the level of communication between the soccer mods team that we do now. We have a forum to chat in and there are a lot more of us now than there has been in the past years. I cannot remember a time in recent memory when there has not been a mod or two about, regardless of whether there is a game on.

One of the problems that I and the rest of the mods are having with this thread, I think, is that there is a lot of things people are saying that are completely untrue or have no place in this thread. The title is how's our driving, not how was our driving or in the past 5 years have you seen any of these people involved in a crash. We are asking about how people think the forum is running NOW. We are looking for constructive feedback about things that we can work on now if necessary and people throwing it all off kilter by accusing us of things that this group have not been culpable of and no mods of soccer can have been accused of in years does not help. I have already been accused of banning a guy because I am a Pool fan and he slagged off Rafa, the fact that he was in breach of the charter seems to make very little difference to him as long as he can beat his drum here, he'll be fine, not really what we are here for though is it?

Fair enough perhaps I have concentrated on the past too much, hopefully your right and mods will be aorund when they are needed.

One thing I would suggest in relation to your reference to someone thinking a ban was handed out because of who a mod supports perhaps it might be better to let other mods who don't support the team in question hand out the bans where possible, and I know that will not always be possible but it might make life a little easier for you where possible

LuckyLloyd

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

Yeah I wasnt suggesting the mods were being biased though.

It seem that some Liverpool posters feel very aggrieved by the level of "trolling" and "winding up" and are coming in here whinging and complaining about it all the time failing to see that their own fans are guilty of the same offences.

I dont see a way to stop it though. People will just have to learn to ignore it and get on with it. There is an ignore list on for a reason so "getting frustrated" is no excuse for personal abuse and lashing out says more about your self control than anything else.

Remember what you were like before you spent hours and hours at a poker table playing for decent amounts of money? I'm frankly sick and tired of people in this thread calling for people to "control their emotions" or "grow up" or "stop being precious" etc, etc. If you have great emotional discipline good for you. That puts you in a minority group within the population at large. And when it is a minority group within the regular user base of the soccer forum at large that are out to test people's emotional control, I know where the finger should be pointed on this thing.

flahavaj

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Remember what you were like before you spent hours and hours at a poker table playing for decent amounts of money? I'm frankly sick and tired of people in this thread calling for people to "control their emotions" or "grow up" or "stop being precious" etc, etc. If you have great emotional discipline good for you. That puts you in a minority group within the population at large. And when it is a minority group within the regular user base of the soccer forum at large that are out to test people's emotional control, I know where the finger should be pointed on this thing.

Presumably the fact that this thread was started means you haven't come up with a good solution to this "minority group" that tests peoples' patience.

Asking people to grow up is the best that can be done, its a bit rich to say you're sick and tired of hearing this when its the one thing that can't be said too much around here.

LuckyLloyd

flahavaj wrote: »

Presumably the fact that this thread was started means you haven't come up with a good solution to this "minority group."

Asking people to grow up is the best that can be done, its a bit rich to say yopu're sick and tired of hearing this when its the one thing that can't be said too much around here.

Look, I'll type it in simpler terms:

- There is roughly a majority and minority group on the forum;
- The majority group don't troll;
- The minority group do troll;
- The majority group get pissed off when they are trolled, as would the vast majority of humans when riled up over a subject they are passionate about;
- The minority group get away with this trolling and then say "ah, you need to grow up and accept my definition of banter children";
- The majority group can't really do that, because achieving excellent control of ones emotions is something most adults spend their lives doing;
- The minority group could very easily stop trolling, but they've no interest in doing so;
- We still want to point the finger at the majority group, and shrug our shoulders that there is no other solution;
- I get confused at that point;


The solution is really simple. Remove the half dozen or so consistent trouble makers from this forum permanently. Cull the minority, and move forward with the majority.

therecklessone

Villain wrote: »

I appreciate what you have said though and think its great if thats what you are doing now its just a pity your co-mod couldn't have said that rather the "I have a life and I'll be around when I feel like it" kind of response

I apologise if I've given the wrong impression, it was not my intention to suggest that I mod when I feel like it. I mod when I can, largely curtailed by work and personal commitments that are more pressing than this site. I put 20+ hours a week into modding this forum, usually more, I have been online on/off since 8am this morning for example.

No matter how many full-time mods, or part-time mods there are there will be times when for one reason or another we are not able to respond immediately.

Deleting posts, banning or infracting takes time. I've often returned to a thread to find 40+ posts have been submitted in the time it's taken me to infract and filled out the PM, many of them angry responses to the post I've just dealt with. I can't close match threads every time I have to do something with a post, and often I have to read back over a number of posts to get the gist of what has gone on before I do take action.

Major match threads move at a tremendous pace on here, and there are a lot of tasks associated with modding that are invisible to posters that we have to perform.

One final thing, unless we sit hitting F5 on the match thread we won't get instant updates here, we also rely on reported posts which can take a while to filter through to our e-mail inbox.

Despite all that I don't think there have been too many occasions that things have spiralled too far without one of us being around.

Theresalwaysone

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Remember what you were like before you spent hours and hours at a poker table playing for decent amounts of money? I'm frankly sick and tired of people in this thread calling for people to "control their emotions" or "grow up" or "stop being precious" etc, etc. If you have great emotional discipline good for you. That puts you in a minority group within the population at large. And when it is a minority group within the regular user base of the soccer forum at large that are out to test people's emotional control, I know where the finger should be pointed on this thing.

I completely agree and you are right but I am suprised you are taking this line now after all your spiel about lol soccer fans being reactionary and unreasonable, they are products of extreme emotion. What I mean is, that otherwise reasonable people become blabbering messes when an emotive topic is being discussed.

But is there a better way to solve it other than to tell people to ignore it/stop getting offended so easily? If there is, its probably impractical.

Im not sure if you are implying if Im a troll or WUM? If you are Id find that quite harsh.

Boggles

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Remember what you were like before you spent hours and hours at a poker table playing for decent amounts of money? I'm frankly sick and tired of people in this thread calling for people to "control their emotions" or "grow up" or "stop being precious" etc, etc. If you have great emotional discipline good for you. That puts you in a minority group within the population at large. And when it is a minority group within the regular user base of the soccer forum at large that are out to test people's emotional control, I know where the finger should be pointed on this thing.

Bollix.

Freshest case directed towards me.

mormank wrote: »

ah ya but that is just because we have hindsight and knwo what a great player keano goes onto become. at 23 when he was just about to join utd you cannot say he was a better player than ronnie or messi at 23!! then again i dont even knwo why im bothering talking to a brick wall that just spends it time on here trying to wind people up constantly

If you don't think people being precious is a problem on the forum then like you said in one of your first posts here maybe you should jump ship.

The forum is excellent, for you to come on and say your thinking of resigning is an insult to the forum, the mods and the posters in it.

The Muppet

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Look, I'll type it in simpler terms:

- There is roughly a majority and minority group on the forum;
- The majority group don't troll;
- The minority group do troll;
- The majority group get pissed off when they are trolled, as would the vast majority of humans when riled up over a subject they are passionate about;
- The minority group get away with this trolling and then say "ah, you need to grow up and accept my definition of banter children";
- The majority group can't really do that, because achieving excellent control of ones emotions is something most adults spend their lives doing;
- The minority group could very easily stop trolling, but they've no interest in doing so;
- We still want to point the finger at the majority group, and shrug our shoulders that there is no other solution;
- I get confused at that point;


The solution is really simple. Remove the half dozen or so consistent trouble makers from this forum permanently. Cull the minority, and move forward with the majority.

With respect LLyod the poll shows that there is only a very small minority that have any issues with how the Forum is moderated 13 users of the 131 that have voted so far.

A system that removes people because they express an opinion that deviates from your own is censorship and an abuse of power. From what I know of the owners of this site I doubt they would want to be seen to be censoring users without good reason.

Should the forum be run to suit the minority that get upset over such trivialities?

LuckyLloyd

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

Im not sure if you are implying if Im a troll or WUM? If you are Id find that quite harsh.

Not at all! In my opinion, your posting over the last six months has been mostly balanced, erudite and wise (seriously!).

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

I completely agree and you are right but I am suprised you are taking this line now after all your spiel about lol soccer fans being reactionary and unreasonable, they are products of extreme emotion. What I mean is, that otherwise reasonable people become blabbering messes when an emotive topic is being discussed.

Yeah, I do think football fans are irrational. But I remember what I was like four years ago. I approach not just football, but everything in life differently these days and my temper resides at a level somewhere between comatose and non existent. This isn't the BBV thread, it's the soccer forum with regular people who love soccer. My responsibility is to represent them, not me or you or other poker players - and certainly not the small band of trolls.

People who love soccer will mostly be emotive and irrational. Trying to change that reality is an impossible pipe dream. We need to work with and accept the way people are.

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

But is there a better way to solve it other than to tell people to ignore it/stop getting offended so easily? If there is, its probably impractical.

I don't think it's impractical. It may be a little too ruthless for some people though.