My job as: A secondary school teacher

Toto Wolfcastle

Occupation: Secondary school teacher (English and Irish)

Qualifications held: BA (English and Irish) and Post Graduate Diploma in Education

Previous Jobs: Retail/Waitressing

Daily/Weekly/Yearly Routine: Class preparation, teaching, corrections. Class teacher duties: Checking journals, dealing with disruptive students. Organisation of Irish budget, ordering of materials, distribution of Irish magazines. Preparation of house exams for each class at Christmas/summer. Collection of money for mocks from each class. Meetings with parents/staff. In-service days. Awards night. Open night. Christmas concert. 6th year mass.

Age bracket: Early 20s. (Just about )

Day In The Life:

Most days I have 7 or 8 classes. The following is for an 8 day class. Arrive at 8.30. I do some photocopying if it is necessary or if there is paper there. If there is no paper I panic and hope that the office will open soon. Otherwise I have a chat with my colleagues.

Class start at 8.50. Because I'm relatively new to the school I don't have my own room so I grab whichever key I need and the roll book. I let the students into the room and set up my laptop or projector if I need it. I take the roll and send a student to the office with the list of people who are out. I check homework or start the class. (You all know this anyway!) Oh, and if my students are acting the muppet I give a first and only warning and after that I give a note and work my way up the discipline system. Classes in my school last for 40 minutes and we have 3 before break, 3 after break and 3 after lunch. On an 8 class day I get 1 class off. I use this class to photocopy or to prepare for classes later in the week. The odd time I spend it writing incident sheets if something has happened, or talking to year heads/deputy principal. On 7 class days I might use one just to relax but on 8 class days I don't have the time. I get 10 minutes for break and on one of my 8 class days I supervise the students during this time. I get an hour for lunch. Some teachers supervise for half an hour at lunch but I do 2 breaks and before school one day. I am also available for 2 extra classes a week to sub. Once 4 o clock hits I try to remember where I parked and vow to take a nap when I get home. That never happens though. I spend anything from half and hour to 4 hours at night preparing/correcting depending on the day and time of year. A couple of hours would be the norm.

Most school days are fairly run of the mill. Sometimes something mad and exciting happens and the day gets interesting.

General comments: I never really wanted to be a teacher. Even when I started the PGDE I had no opinion either way. The second I stepped into the classroom I knew it was for me. I love it. I have an awful lot of ordinary level classes and I have a good few messers so every day is a challenge. I love it when it becomes clear that a student gets something I have taught him/her. I do find the job stressful at times but I genuinely do love it. Class sizes are too big and jobs are hard to come by. Getting a permanent job straight out of college is pretty unlikely, although I did and so did a colleague. (Right place, right time.) If you need constant praise it is not the job for you. There are people who are not able for it but for those who are it is a genuinely fulfilling job and I wouldn't give it up for the world.

eVeNtInE

This post has been deleted.

DancingQueen:)

I'm thinking of being a secondary school teacher aswel Not sure though, did you find it hard to get a permenant job?

Toto Wolfcastle

eVeNtInE wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

The problem is that many students don't see teachers as people, and thus even some of the good students don't see anything wrong with treating the teachers with utter disrespect. It can be utterly draining having to deal with a student or a group of students who wont stop talking or messing or making irrelevant comments. The discipline system works with 95% of the students when used properly. I have had groups of students who have been impossible to deal with. This is when a good support network is important. At times I have asked myself if it is worth the stress, but because I have support from management and from my colleagues I realise that everything work out.

As for having a certain attitude, I think the key is confidence. Students know when you are not confident. You need to remember that you are the teacher, that you are in charge. You need to remember that you have what they need, and you need to get them to realise this. I also think that you need to have a sense of humour. There are things that will happen in class that will cause disruption and having a sense of humour will help you distinguish between the incidents that need to be dealt with and the ones that can be laughed off.

DancingQueen:) wrote: »

I'm thinking of being a secondary school teacher aswel Not sure though, did you find it hard to get a permenant job?

When I finished college I applied for whatever jobs were in the paper. I didn't really take into account whether they were permanent or temporary or maternity leave or whatever. I suppose that because permanent jobs are hard to come by it didn't dawn on me that any of them would be permanent positions. In fact, I didn't find out that the job I got was permanent until the day I was offered it. I did interviews in two schools and the second job was not permanent. I got my job from my first interview. I was lucky that someone with my subjects had retired and that a permanent position was available. One of my colleagues was also in this position.

My situation is very unusual though. I would be lying to you if I said that it is easy to get a permanent position. They are simply not available at the moment. There are people that I work with who have been in the school for longer than me but who are not yet permanent.

I think that there are a good few retirements coming up so hopefully more permanent positions will be available.

My advice would be to do teaching if you are interested in it. Forget about the jobs situation. Jobs are hard to come by everywhere at the moment so it is the ideal time to do something that you will love and then think about jobs once you have qualified. Hopefully things will improve in the next few years anyway.

jumpguy

janeybabe wrote: »

As for having a certain attitude, I think the key is confidence. Students know when you are not confident. You need to remember that you are the teacher, that you are in charge. You need to remember that you have what they need, and you need to get them to realise this. I also think that you need to have a sense of humour. There are things that will happen in class that will cause disruption and having a sense of humour will help you distinguish between the incidents that need to be dealt with and the ones that can be laughed off.

That's excellent stuff. As a student, I find that I enjoy classes (and indeed subjects) more with teachers who have a good sense of humour, but knows the line. Teachers who try to resist this and have a completely silent class, or who are completely sobering and hate a laugh, generally fail in their attempt for this and create alot of tension in the class and stress for themselves. No to mention the class can become an absolute bore. What subject do you teach, English and Irish? And how did you fall into teaching, even though you were indifferent towards it?

Toto Wolfcastle

jumpguy wrote: »

What subject do you teach, English and Irish? And how did you fall into teaching, even though you were indifferent towards it?

Yeah, I teach English and Irish.

I did arts and when I was thinking about what I wanted to do I really didn't know. I applied for the PGDE when I was in 2nd year because I figured it was a way of gaining a qualification I could use and I though that teaching was something that I wouldn't mind doing. It was a silly reason to choose a job and I was lucky that it worked out.

GO'S

thinking of teaching business what route would i have to take? what is the pay like?

Toto Wolfcastle

GO'S wrote: »

thinking of teaching business what route would i have to take? what is the pay like?

To qualify as a business teacher you can do a business related degree that is recognised by the Teaching Council. (List of recognised degrees here)

You then apply for the PGDE (formerly the HDip) through PAC (as linked to above) or else directly through Trinity if you want to do it there.

There is also a postgrad in UL.

If you are applying through PAC to do the PGDE in NUIG, NUIM, UCC or UCD a quota applies to Business graduates. This means that Business graduates have to get higher points to get into the course than others because there are only a certain amount of places. The points are worked out based on your last available results. I did a 3 year degree and my 2nd year results were used initially. They used to give points for subbing but that is stopping this year. Generally a high 2:1 is needed but for business graduates a higher grade is needed. I think there is a link to last year's points on www.pac.ie.

For Trinity and UL you have to do an interview.

Information on the pay can be found here and here.

In general it's your basic pay depending on your position on the scale plus allowances for your qualifications. There are an awful lot of deductions at the moment too and it will only get worse but tbh I didn't get a chance to get used to what I was being paid before it was taken away so I don't really notice it....yet!

Kershaw.D

Hey,
I want to become a Geography and Business teacher,
I know that I will be able for it but what I want to know is how hard is the training to become a teacher, and how do you deal with the students that just won't listen and even scream at you

Thanks

Toto Wolfcastle

Kershaw.D wrote: »

Hey,
I want to become a Geography and Business teacher,
I know that I will be able for it but what I want to know is how hard is the training to become a teacher, and how do you deal with the students that just won't listen and even scream at you

Thanks

The PGDE is a tough year. Depending on where you do the course you could be teaching in the morning and going to college in the evening, or you could have teaching and college on separate days or even weeks. Whichever way it is done it is tough. By the end of the year you will never want to hear the words 'lesson' and 'plan' again. I found an awful lot of it pointless tbh and a lot of it didn't help me in real-life situations. You get back what you put in though. It's bloody stressful at times and I wouldn't do it again for all the money in the world. However, it's very much worth it in the end.

As for students who wont listen, that's what the discipline system is for. I generally give one warning, the 'first and last warning'. Then I start moving up the discipline system. (Journal, extra work, incident sheet, etc, depending on the system in the school.) I have found that this works for the majority of the students. It's harder when the group as a whole are being disruptive and not listening. Support from colleagues is important here. Class teachers, year heads, deputy principal, principal. It is important to be able to admit that you have a problem because there are people who can help and there are ways of dealing with everything. Going it alone can sometimes be the biggest mistake.

Sometimes the only answer is to remove the student from the situation. It's sometimes the only thing that can be done for the good of the class.

Kershaw.D

janeybabe wrote: »

The PGDE is a tough year. Depending on where you do the course you could be teaching in the morning and going to college in the evening, or you could have teaching and college on separate days or even weeks. Whichever way it is done it is tough. By the end of the year you will never want to hear the words 'lesson' and 'plan' again. I found an awful lot of it pointless tbh and a lot of it didn't help me in real-life situations. You get back what you put in though. It's bloody stressful at times and I wouldn't do it again for all the money in the world. However, it's very much worth it in the end.

As for students who wont listen, that's what the discipline system is for. I generally give one warning, the 'first and last warning'. Then I start moving up the discipline system. (Journal, extra work, incident sheet, etc, depending on the system in the school.) I have found that this works for the majority of the students. It's harder when the group as a whole are being disruptive and not listening. Support from colleagues is important here. Class teachers, year heads, deputy principal, principal. It is important to be able to admit that you have a problem because there are people who can help and there are ways of dealing with everything. Going it alone can sometimes be the biggest mistake.

Sometimes the only answer is to remove the student from the situation. It's sometimes the only thing that can be done for the good of the class.

Thanks v much

GO'S

janeybabe wrote: »

To qualify as a business teacher you can do a business related degree that is recognised by the Teaching Council. (List of recognised degrees here)

You then apply for the PGDE (formerly the HDip) through PAC (as linked to above) or else directly through Trinity if you want to do it there.

There is also a postgrad in UL.

If you are applying through PAC to do the PGDE in NUIG, NUIM, UCC or UCD a quota applies to Business graduates. This means that Business graduates have to get higher points to get into the course than others because there are only a certain amount of places. The points are worked out based on your last available results. I did a 3 year degree and my 2nd year results were used initially. They used to give points for subbing but that is stopping this year. Generally a high 2:1 is needed but for business graduates a higher grade is needed. I think there is a link to last year's points on www.pac.ie.

For Trinity and UL you have to do an interview.

Information on the pay can be found here and here.

In general it's your basic pay depending on your position on the scale plus allowances for your qualifications. There are an awful lot of deductions at the moment too and it will only get worse but tbh I didn't get a chance to get used to what I was being paid before it was taken away so I don't really notice it....yet!

thanks but what if i was to mix business with maths or something?

Toto Wolfcastle

GO'S wrote: »

thanks but what if i was to mix business with maths or something?

Your degree is what decides what subjects your can teach, not your PGDE. Have a look at the list of degrees on www.pac.ie and pick the ones that qualify you to teach business and maths.

DancingQueen:)

Just wondering if you study arts in college could you go on then, do an extra year and be qualified to teach it in secondary schools?, my careers techer has me a bit confused.

Toto Wolfcastle

DancingQueen:) wrote: »

Just wondering if you study arts in college could you go on then, do an extra year and be qualified to teach it in secondary schools?, my careers techer has me a bit confused.

Yes, I did arts and then went on to do the PGDE (formerly the HDip) to qualify as a teacher. The subjects you are qualified to teach will depend on the subjects you did up to degree level.

randylonghorn

DancingQueen:) wrote: »

Just wondering if you study arts in college could you go on then, do an extra year and be qualified to teach it in secondary schools?, my careers techer has me a bit confused.

DancingQueen, do you mean art or arts?

A Bachelor of Arts degree can be in (normally either one or two of) a wide range of subjects, broadly within the arts or humanities ... e.g. history, geography, languages, economics, etc. etc. ... even maths which bridges between most faculties.

So you're not really qualified to teach arts as such, just the subject(s) which you have taken your degree in ...



On a totally different point, can I remind people that these threads are to allow for discussion of certain careers, and the path to them ... not for discussions about the teachers you had in school, and how wonderful / terrible / somewhere in between they were.

DancingQueen:)

Sorry i meant Arts where you study different subjects not actually art.
Thanks for all of the advice

thumbtackjack

Hi Janeybabe, I'm doing arts and currently on my placement in a school. I'm planning on applying for the grad dip in education next year. so far my experience has been mixed. I enjoy teaching but find student teachers on their work experience are thrown into the deep end as regards disciplinery procedures and how the school works, I only found out from my students that I had a half day a few weeks ago. it has taken a while to get used to it but I find that I'm not told anything and iI feel a bit left out from the other teachers. Did you feel the same when you were out on teaching practice?

Toto Wolfcastle

I think that it very much depends on the school you are in. I thought that overall the staff in my Teaching Practice school were very unfriendly towards me and the other student teachers and there was a very definite 'them and us' vibe. This was despite trying hard to integrate into the school. It was fine once I made an increased effort to get the information. I think you get what you put in tbh.

The school I'm working in is fabulous. Everyone is great. We had a student teacher last year who came on all our nights out with us. This year they seem much more shy and don't make as much of an effort although we do include them. As I said, it depends on the school and the people involved.

rebel girl 15

its a bit harder coming from an arts + PGDE, and going into a school to teach as compared to coming from a B.Ed or specific teaching programme, where you are taught for four years about teaching etc. The placements (well with us anyway), you always have a mentor in the school, plus a final year student, so that you have a firm link if you need to ask q's etc. It gives you an "in" a bit as well with staff - some schools though can be very bad for student teachers - I heard of one that has a specific room for student teachers for breaks etc, isolated from the rest of staff!

StrawDub

Hi janeybabe,

My degree enables me to teach business studies according to the departments list. My degree had large elements of IT and Accounting also and was wondering has anyone any experience in paying to get your degree assessed by the department? Its extremely expenses at 1000 per subject.

Also Is teaching just business enough ? are business teachers 10 a penny?

However I have a masters in IT does having a masters count towards the subjects you can teach? or can I get this assessed?

Toto Wolfcastle

StrawDub wrote: »

Hi janeybabe,

My degree enables me to teach business studies according to the departments list. My degree had large elements of IT and Accounting also and was wondering has anyone any experience in paying to get your degree assessed by the department? Its extremely expenses at 1000 per subject.

Also Is teaching just business enough ? are business teachers 10 a penny?

However I have a masters in IT does having a masters count towards the subjects you can teach? or can I get this assessed?

I don't have experience of getting a degree assessed but I know of people who have. It's not the department the assesses degress. It's the Teaching Council. Is it really 1000? I thought it was 250. That's mad. From what I have been told the TC is extremely slow at assessing degrees. When I did my PGDE 2 years ago a TC rep came to talk to us. A girl asked why she had not heard back from them a year after applying and the rep said that her application was probably in the pile outside his office door. If you are going to get a degree assessed then you need to do it as soon as you can. However, if your degree is listed on the TC website as qualifying you to teach only Business Studies it might be a waste of time as it would have been assessed already to get on the list.

For the PGDE in NUIG, UCC, UCD (I think) and NUIM there is a quota on the amount of business graduates they take in. I think this was introduced because of the amount of business teachers that were qualifying. In truth, most subjects have a low demand these days. There are few jobs out there besides maternity leave, etc. While you are only qualified to teach business, in order to increase your chances of employment you would have to be willing to teach other subjects. (Maths, accounting, CSPE, SPHE.) You wouldn't be qualified to teach these subjects but you might be asked to by a principal if you were needed. I don't think that teaching business is enough tbh.

Your masters does not count towards qualifying you to teach anything. It's your undergrad degree that counts. It would be a waste of time to try to get the masters assessed.

Hope this helps. Do a search of the Teaching and Lecturing forum or start a thread there if you want more information.

IslandFella

I want to be a second level teacher of ICT. I have a degree and masters in software design and development. I'm also doing the NCII degree in counselling at the minute.
Does anyone know if there is a lot of demand out there for ITC teachers. Are men in demand more than women for teaching (I heard the discipline required more males to balance out the ratio). Would my computer degrees also qualify me to teach maths/physics?
I know there is a huge necessity for school counsellors, but there is no cash to fund etc.,At least the counselling degree might help me in other ways to get my foot in the door.

Toto Wolfcastle

IslandFella wrote: »

I want to be a second level teacher of ICT. I have a degree and masters in software design and development. I'm also doing the NCII degree in counselling at the minute.
Does anyone know if there is a lot of demand out there for ITC teachers. Are men in demand more than women for teaching (I heard the discipline required more males to balance out the ratio). Would my computer degrees also qualify me to teach maths/physics?
I know there is a huge necessity for school counsellors, but there is no cash to fund etc.,At least the counselling degree might help me in other ways to get my foot in the door.

The vast majority of schools will not hire an ICT teacher. ICT is given to business/maths teachers or any teacher who has a few spare periods to fill and is in anyway handy with a computer. I wouldn't even consider applying for the PGDE if you could only teach ICT. To find out what your degree qualifies you for check the list here.

As for school counsellors, time and time again I hate heard that a job comes along once in a blue moon. Then again, you are doing the degree so perhaps you know better than me.

lawl

Hi guys
Im finishing my pgde this year and im looking tohead off for the summer teaching.
I teach science and maths. Does anyone know of any good recommendations or places i can try??

thanks
c

Piste

Hey, you might get more a response in Teaching and Lecturing, there are a lot of T5eachers on there who might be able to give you better advice than you'd find here.

fend

Hi !

I'm currently studying a business degree in the business school in Galway.
I have one year left and which to go on to teach business studies and economics for secondary school.
I was on the Secondary School Teachers website where I had a look at the list of recognized degrees and after not seeing GBS, I decided t e-mail to see if perhaps it was a mistake or if it was an old list [ Considering Dublin Business School was on it but not Galway! ] Anyways, I got a jibbery jabber email back saying basically no.

I am now at a loose end as I really had my heart set on secondary school teaching and now don't know where to look!

What's my next step? I can't exactly leave the college I'm in as i'm in my 20's and really can't afford to be dropping out of college [again!]

Des anyone have any advice or suggestions on ways for me to get into teaching? Or do I basically have to start all over again once I finish this course?

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!

Toto Wolfcastle

In order to qualify as a teacher, your degree needs to be recognised by the Teaching Council. If is is not on the list, and if the Teaching Council has told you that it is not recognised then you have a couple of options. You can apply to the Teaching Council to try to get your degree recognised. There is a fee for this and it can take quite awhile. If your degree is not recognised by them after that you could ask them if it is possible to make up credits in order to get the degree recognised. If they agree it would mean more college but you would not have to do a full degree.

However, if they do not recognise your degree, then you will have to do another degree that is recognised before you can qualify as a teacher.

If you really have your heart set on teaching, then you should apply to get the degree recognised and go from there.

Iancar29

Hey, Im doing a Climate Science in college at the moment.

Ill end up gettin a BCs ...as the course is mainly maths /physics/ geo would it be possible for me to become a in teacher in would of those areas wit just doing an extra year or something,or does it have to be an arts degree?

Jay P

I know you already spoke about discipline in the class, but I've a few questions about it.

How exactly do you keep a class of 30 teenagers quiet and actually interested in what you're talking about? Some teachers just have a natural ability at doing it, and I just never understood what it was. Generally it was the better teachers who managed this, though I've had very good teachers who couldn't keep the class quiet. Young teachers tended to think that they'd command respect by coming in and being a total hard-ass. This tended to make the class more giddy, and they'd nearly try to annoy him/her. Then there's the other end of the scale, where the teacher is too nice, and the class walks over him/her.

How do you find the right balance? I can hardly imagine that being confident alone will help.

Also, I presume I'd be right in saying that you treat different years differently?

Toto Wolfcastle

Iancar29 wrote: »

Hey, Im doing a Climate Science in college at the moment.

Ill end up gettin a BCs ...as the course is mainly maths /physics/ geo would it be possible for me to become a in teacher in would of those areas wit just doing an extra year or something,or does it have to be an arts degree?

Check the list of recognised degrees here or here. You don't need an Arts degree but you do need to have a recognised degree. If your degree is not recognised then you can apply to the Teaching Council to have it recognised. There is a fee for this and there is no guarantee that they will recognise the degree. You can then do the PGDE to qualify as a teacher.

Jay P wrote: »

I know you already spoke about discipline in the class, but I've a few questions about it.

How exactly do you keep a class of 30 teenagers quiet and actually interested in what you're talking about? Some teachers just have a natural ability at doing it, and I just never understood what it was. Generally it was the better teachers who managed this, though I've had very good teachers who couldn't keep the class quiet. Young teachers tended to think that they'd command respect by coming in and being a total hard-ass. This tended to make the class more giddy, and they'd nearly try to annoy him/her. Then there's the other end of the scale, where the teacher is too nice, and the class walks over him/her.

How do you find the right balance? I can hardly imagine that being confident alone will help.

Also, I presume I'd be right in saying that you treat different years differently?

It isn't easy to keep a large number of students quiet. When you turn one way, another student will start talking. But a good discipline system can help. It is hugely important to know the different steps of the discipline system and to know how many chances a student gets before you start using the discipline system. If someone is talk, I give them their first and last warning, then the next step is a note. If it persists, extra work, and so on. It's so important to be consistent. Consistent use of the discipline system is very effective in controlling any class.

A lot of students love it when the the teacher goes mad, so a lot of the time it's best to remain calm, explain the behaviour that has caused the trouble, give the warning/note and move on.

I wouldn't say that different years are treated differently, but different classes are. For instance, if I had a good 5th year group I would not have to come down as hard on them as I would with a group of 5th years who will not listen or stop talking. I suppose with first years you might try a more gently approach at first but in general it's best to look at behaviour rather than year group. Some people like to treat 6th years differently because they are older but it can cause the 6th years to believe that they can do what they like. A disruptive 6th year class gets the same treatment as a disruptive 3rd year class when I am in the classroom.