Anything in the pipeline to prevent shoppers crossing the border?

old boy

the goverment will try to use nationalistic bull schite, coughlan and lenihan will try to appeal to our sense of irishness, do not cross the BORDER, spend your money, where it can keep us finna failures in pensions and our buddys the bankers and developers, in muna,
yeah right ted.

gurramok

skearon wrote: »

And if people continue to spend their Euros outside the state, more people will lose their jobs

Likewise, the more money spent within the State, the more likely you and others will still be in employment.

Cause and effect...

Give me the money to afford the prices down here as I certainly don't have it!:D

skearon

old boy wrote: »

the goverment will try to use nationalistic bull schite, coughlan and lenihan will try to appeal to our sense of irishness, do not cross the BORDER, spend your money, where it can keep us finna failures in pensions and our buddys the bankers and developers, in muna,
yeah right ted.

It's not bull, its plain simple economics.

We are borrowing €500m a week to just balance the books, that's another fact.

hellboy99

skearon wrote: »

So put your family first, put your country first, and spend your money in your state.

I am putting my family first and that's why I go up north, otherwise it would be bread and jam on the table every week, and bills not getting paid.

skearon wrote: »

Open you eyes and see the big picture, prices are higher here because of excessive profits and highers costs. If you see something cheaper in the UK, they use that to bargin with a local retailer.

I "opened my eyes this time last year" and now shop up north, have you tried to bargin with any of your local retailers, it sure as hell doesn't work where I live :rolleyes:

It's our government that need to be patriotic to the Irish people first and foremost, they drove even more up north by highering VAT at a time when it should of been lowered and then the minister said it was a mistake but what did he do, nothing. The only thing this current government are good at is screwing this country up, and you can bank on them making things even worse with the coming budget.

skearon

hellboy99 wrote: »

I "opened my eyes this time last year" and now shop up north, have you tried to bargin with any of your local retailers, it sure as hell doesn't work where I live :rolleyes:

Don't know what planet you're living in then, as retailers are most certainly prepared to bargain.

hellboy99 wrote: »

It's our government that need to be patriotic to the Irish people first and foremost, they drove even more up north by highering VAT at a time when it should of been lowered and then the minister said it was a mistake but what did he do, nothing. The only thing this current government are good at is screwing this country up, and you can bank on them making things even worse with the coming budget.

Are you seriously suggesting a mere 0.5% change in VAT (21 to 21.5%) 'drove' people up North?

When VAT was reduced here previously from 21 to 20% the evidence showed prices did not decrease, likewise the UK have admitted their reduction of VAT to 15% has been a failure and it is reverting to 17.5% on January 1st.

In the budget the Government will do precisely what needs to be done to ensure the economy recovers from the worldwide recession. Short term pain, for long term gain.

The only people 'screwing' their country are those who are too short sighted to see the damage they are doing by not spending their hard earned euros in their own state.

miftha

Simple answer, NO.

It is not going to change until we get real down here at all levels. I hear the government crap that it is due to the exchange rate being so good, absolute rubbish!!!! Even when it was .69 to € I always made huge savings up north (cover petrol + toll and still make a huge saving - full car, even back seat). The reality is the taxes/excise on alcohol down south are way too high, highest in Europe, the base price of many products is far cheaper in the north (toiletries just one example), they give far better deals (2 for 1), so as I said currency difference is a false argument, it only makes it even better

Prices are higher down south due to profiteering, rates and government taxes/duties/VAT. Thus it is up to the government to reduce the second two, and it is up to us to stop the first one. How do we stop the first one, shop elsewhere - no business will make them reduce prices and pressurise the government to reduce rates/taxes! Shop up north or online for example, as are Mary Horney said.... 'shop around'. Government also fails to realise the PRF is also having an effect on where people by electronics, why will I buy a TV here when it is more expensive and if I buy it outside the state I do not pay an extra €8 for the privilege.

My position as a tax payer, as they government have failed miserable to do, it get value for my money. It is not to be PATRIOTIC!!! I am not going to cut off my nose despite my face for this BS, at the end of the day where I spend my money is my business and that will never change. My family obligation is to balance the books, spend less than I earn - unlike the government who spend more than they earn (and don't get me started on the unions who are so up their own self interested behinds).

Dannyboy83

mikemac wrote: »

Eh, if you're in Kerry or Cork or tbh most of Munster, the benefits are not clear to see.
Not if you're spending €50 to €60 on fuel and you have interest in cheap booze or baby products.
You can't buy a few hours of your life back

Yes, the alternative for those of us in Cork, Kerry, Munster is just to not spend.;)

I'll be buying a small present for my partner, parents, and my brother as its his birthday.
I already told most of the rest of my family and friends not to buy me anything cause I won't be buying for them, given the circumstances.
Far from embarrassed, everybody I said that to was relieved tbh:).

I don't plan on having any headaches or worries to start off 2010, and clearly plenty of other people feel the same.

irish_bob

mikemac wrote: »

Da Da dam, not my problem!
If local authorities have no money maybe they should they should stop sending councillors and their husbands/wifes to Boston/New York or wherever else for "fact-finding" missions over St Patrick's weekend
In fact, why are councillors taking their spouses on foreign trips at rate payers expense??? Surely they should pay themselves!

I'm nowhere near the border, the cost in fuel to get from North Tipp to Enniskillen woud nullify any savings really.

But I do pay 41% tax plus levies plus BIK plus PRSI so don't fecking me tell guilty for shopping in the EU!
Ever hear of diminishing returns? Charge excessive taxation and people won't bother working overtime. I have and my teammates, what's the point in paying 55% tax for your overtime, no point at all!

i wasnt for a second defending local authorites , i was trying to explain the predicament facing businees in ireland when it comes to increased rates , vat , minimum wage being far higher than in the north , energy costs etc , untill state costs come down , it is impossible for retailers in the south to compete with those in the north unless they actually decide to loose money on sales

anyone who shops north has less entitlement to complain about the state of the country as far as im concerned , by all means , hammer the politicans but dont give your money to the queen of englands goverment , she wont build any roads or hospitals for us

hellboy99

skearon wrote: »

Don't know what planet you're living in then, as retailers are most certainly perfared to bargain.

Well not here.

Mate of mine went looking for a TV a few weeks back, Curry's was the cheapest out of all the shops in the town with not one other retailer willing to match the price. As we're only 15 minutes from Newry and a price difference of just over €100 between Curry's price here in the south to Curry's in Newry he asked would they lower or match the price, he got told no to both, so he went up north :rolleyes:

mikemac

Understood Irish_Bob I went off on a bit of a rant about my local councillors who seems to have no issue heading off to Boston every March 17th. Oh but it's a working trip but yet, the rate payers pay for their wife/husband 0oto go to.

Maybe your councillors do the same.

I don't blast TD's on boards as I reckon the majority of corruption is done by councillors

But apologies if I've gone offtopic.
And having lived in Belfast on £56 Job seekers and £42 rent allowance and I still lived very comfortably.
Everything was so much cheaper

PCPhoto

irish_bob wrote: »

i wasnt for a second defending local authorites , i was trying to explain the predicament facing businees in ireland when it comes to increased rates , vat , minimum wage being far higher than in the north , energy costs etc , untill state costs come down , it is impossible for retailers in the south to compete with those in the north unless they actually decide to loose money on sales

anyone who shops north has less entitlement to complain about the state of the country as far as im concerned , by all means , hammer the politicans but dont give your money to the queen of englands goverment , she wont build any roads or hospitals for us

Horsesh1t !!! .... I havent shopped up north (YET) but have bought plenty of things online as I find it a lot cheaper.....several thousand cheaper !!

example: a Canon camera due to be released in December (Canon 1D mkIV)......up north price is £3699-£4000 (+VAT) .... in a Dublin shop SAME CAMERA €4999 (+VAT) ...online price is between €4000-€4500.

Wasnt Mary Harney whinging a few years ago telling people to "Shop around"....and when they did (and discovered cheaper prices outside of the state).... herself and the Government called for patriotism !!!

eddiehobbs

Im amazed how uninformed many people seem to be on this forum. There seems to be a misguided perception that retailers are still creaming it. Speaking as someone who works in retail (grocery) ive seen prices, margins take a hammering, seen paycuts and colleagues lose their jobs. I do most of my shopping where i work because at the end of the day they pay my wages. I would never dream of going up north to do my shopping.

In response to the OP i reckon the goverment should look at reducing the vat rate to the english level, look at the level of excise duty, lowering the minimum wage and also rates. Weakness of sterling is a huge factor also but unfortunatly that is beyond our control. Unfortunatly ireland has priced itself out of competitiveness and it is only with a big and painfull adjustment downwards that we can start to get back on track.

mikemac

eddiehobbs wrote: »

In response to the OP i reckon the goverment should look at reducing the vat rate to the english level,

When Charlie McCreevy was around, Vat was reduced to 21% to 20%.
And yet, consumers saw no savings.

So the government who have access to all the figures after all had to reintroduce the 21% rate.

You're calling for a 15% rate, well realy imo the retailers would keep that extra margin for themselves.
I'm only going on past records here

Taxipete29

eddiehobbs wrote: »

Im amazed how uninformed many people seem to be on this forum. There seems to be a misguided perception that retailers are still creaming it. Speaking as someone who works in retail (grocery) ive seen prices, margins take a hammering, seen paycuts and colleagues lose their jobs. I do most of my shopping where i work because at the end of the day they pay my wages. I would never dream of going up north to do my shopping.

In response to the OP i reckon the goverment should look at reducing the vat rate to the english level, look at the level of excise duty, lowering the minimum wage and also rates. Weakness of sterling is a huge factor also but unfortunatly that is beyond our control. Unfortunatly ireland has priced itself out of competitiveness and it is only with a big and painfull adjustment downwards that we can start to get back on track.

The exchange rate is a red herring. Its been cheaper to go up North for years. I have gone up when it was .70 and it was still far cheaper.

The fact is irish retailers have been creaming it for years and are now looking for patriotism. Where was the patriotism when they were charging astronomical prices during the boom times. Get real. Times are tough and people need to do the best for their family and if that means spending money up north then so be it.

Lest it not be forgotten that most of the Election posters for the council and European elections were printed up North. "Do as I say dont do as I do" imo

PCPhoto

eddiehobbs wrote: »

Im amazed how uninformed many people seem to be on this forum. There seems to be a misguided perception that retailers are still creaming it. Speaking as someone who works in retail (grocery) ive seen prices, margins take a hammering, seen paycuts and colleagues lose their jobs. I do most of my shopping where i work because at the end of the day they pay my wages. I would never dream of going up north to do my shopping.

In response to the OP i reckon the goverment should look at reducing the vat rate to the english level, look at the level of excise duty, lowering the minimum wage and also rates. Weakness of sterling is a huge factor also but unfortunatly that is beyond our control. Unfortunatly ireland has priced itself out of competitiveness and it is only with a big and painfull adjustment downwards that we can start to get back on track.

its not ill informed people - we all understand and know that many retailers are feeling the pinch and I think I speak for EVERYONE (except the few that keep telling us to be patriotic and protect jobs for our kids etc etc)...its the Government that are forcing prices to be high, but we have a system in this country which needs reform.

IN GENERAL - manufacturers sell only to wholesellers, wholesellers sell to retailers and retailers sell to the public.....each time the seller adds their margin... and the public are at the bottom of the list - getting shafted !!

in the republic SOMEHOW the costs involved in adding a margin are significantly higher than in the North so every time something is added to cover costs .... the price is significantly increased.

if the Government lowered VAT - theres no guarantee the retailers will pass it on - actually you can almost be guaranteed that they would and could rightfully argue they couldnt pass on the savings directly as they would have purchased at the higher rate and would need to recoup that....same way petrol stations up the prices on budget day (to maximise profits)

eddiehobbs

mikemac wrote: »

When Charlie McCreevy was around, Vat was reduced to 21% to 20%.
And yet, consumers saw no savings.

So the government who have access to all the figures after all had to reintroduce the 21% rate.

You're calling for a 15% rate, well realy imo the retailers would keep that extra margin for themselves.
I'm only going on past records here

True, but we're living in a different ireland now, in the current economic climate i dont think any retailer could afford not to pass on those savings to the consumer.

Taxipete29

eddiehobbs wrote: »

True, but we're living in a different ireland now, in the current economic climate i dont think any retailer could afford not to pass on those savings to the consumer.

Well considering many publicans didnt pass on the reduction in the price of the Bulmers pint bottle when it was introduced I dont think Ireland has changed all that much. Still a rip off republic

Test For Echo

I don’t live too far from the border with NI. Sure ‘tis great, we’ve just recently had two major road work projects carried out (one project was on the road leading north) and, no surprises here, both projects were carried out by companies from Northern Ireland!

Patriotism my arse…

eddiehobbs

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Well considering many publicans didnt pass on the reduction in the price of the Bulmers pint bottle when it was introduced I dont think Ireland has changed all that much. Still a rip off republic

Fair comment

Dannyboy83

mikemac wrote: »

When Charlie McCreevy was around, Vat was reduced to 21% to 20%.
And yet, consumers saw no savings.

So the government who have access to all the figures after all had to reintroduce the 21% rate.

You're calling for a 15% rate, well realy imo the retailers would keep that extra margin for themselves.
I'm only going on past records here

In the past, it was lowered during a boom.
Therefore, retailers were able to disguise it.

I don't think retailers would keep it (or most of it at least) for themselves now, not in the current economic climate. There would be a few short term gains at the expense of longer term extinction.
Besides, most people are not willing to calculate a 1% difference, whereas a 6.5% difference is massively noticeable.

If the UK are raising their rates to 17.5 in January, then we should be lowering it to 15%, not only to stop business fleeing the state, but to attract business.

givyjoe81

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Ok I have a feeling you guys knew what I meant but just to clarify -
Yes, by "prevent" I meant incentivising shoppers to buy stuff in the 26 counties.

Good suggestions from Gurramok about alcohol. However I think there's other areas like electronics which could be motive alone. I saved the equivelent of approx €60 on a sony mp3 player last year - €220 in dublin, £140 in the UK.

So even if we got the booze down to the same level people would go up for offers like the above and while there get cheaper clothes etc as well.

Yes i had a feeling thats what you meant, however the government would be more likely to try and 'prevent' us from going, rather incentivise us not to. Not a big drinker but Im pretty sure the Nintendo Wii is cheaper down here than the north (My girlfriends present if i manage to get a job before xmas ... )

Incidentally, on the lowering of VAT, (going out on a limb here and not sure if this is the case, i.e. VAT) but how about the American system of the tax being added at the register, or at least retailers having to show the rates inclusive and exclusive of VAT. Mechanics and the like already do it so why not retailers. especially if the rate was reduced.

hellboy99

TV3 News just now saying to support local businesses coming up to Xmas and that if possible to pay for purchases with cash and not credit cards because the businesses don't want to pay the fees :rolleyes:

Guess we'll be hearing a lot more of this "buy local" crap in the coming weeks, well that's ok if you can afford too. What next, a big wall built around the border to stop us going up north.

_Kooli_

hellboy99 wrote: »

TV3 News just now saying to support local businesses coming up to Xmas and that if possible to pay for purchases with cash and not credit cards because the businesses don't want to pay the fees :rolleyes:

Guess we'll be hearing a lot more of this "buy local" crap in the coming weeks, well that's ok if you can afford too. What next, a big wall built around the border to stop us going up north.

Im waiting for my local businesses to support me. When the cop on and do so, then im more than happy to shop down here.
Why dont we just go to the local shopkeeper, hand him a few hundred euro for nothing and tell him "there you go, thats what people seem to want us to do", and then go up North and save that hundred or more.
Thats what it boils down to

francish

Some incredible posts here. Why should someone pay a retailer in the south more for a product that they can buy online/up north for less? If we all shop locally, things will never change. While it’s painful for the southern retailer, in the long run its better for the Irish economy, retailers are forced to demand lower rents from landlords and except that they are not entitled to supernormal profits. As a country can we stop being so short sighted.

irish_bob

francish wrote: »

Some incredible posts here. Why should someone pay a retailer in the south more for a product that they can buy online/up north for less? If we all shop locally, things will never change. While it’s painful for the southern retailer, in the long run its better for the Irish economy, retailers are forced to demand lower rents from landlords and except that they are not entitled to supernormal profits. As a country can we stop being so short sighted.

you do realise that its not a level playing pitch . retailers up north have lower energy costs , lower vat , lower minimum wage and they pay thier local authorities lower rates , the retailers down here dont stand a chance

dvpower

francish wrote: »

Some incredible posts here. Why should someone pay a retailer in the south more for a product that they can buy online/up north for less?

I can think of a couple of good reasons.

• VAT / duties paid in the republic goes into our exchequer.
• Money spent in our economy supports jobs here.

I'd pay some premium to buy goods here. (But the is a point beyond which, I will go elsewhere).

_Kooli_

dvpower wrote: »

• VAT / duties paid in the republic goes into our exchequer.

VAT difference between here and the North goes into my pocket.

I dont really care about the exchequer here. Take it out of the public servants wages.

The_Thing

We've been ripped off in the south for years and I have absolutely no pity for the retailers here at all. People living too far from the border to make it worthwhile travelling by themselves should organise minibuses among their friends and spread the cost of the journey between them.

Business people love to embrace globalisation when it suits them, but hate to see ordinary people do the same.

dvpower

_Kooli_ wrote: »

I dont really care about the exchequer here.

I look forward to your future gems of economic wisdom:pac:

donkey balls

i used to work for a logistics company who did all the distribution for a well known irish retailer grocery/drapery who has stores in the north the uk&spain.

all the clothing would arrive into Dublin port via container ship were it would go to the whse and then picked for certain stores.
the prices on the clothing up north(taking the sterling rate into account)was still cheaper than the south even though it cost more with the transport of the goods via road.