Anything in the pipeline to prevent shoppers crossing the border?

1huge1

murphaph wrote: »

A VAT rate is for the entire financial year, not just for christmas.

I don't mean to sound naive but what is stopping them for introducing a lower VAT rate for just 2 months, I admit it might be a pain for the retailers to change the prices twice in as many months but other than that...

jimmmy

papachango wrote: »

Jimmy I clearly stated that energy costs and taxes were a big factor of unit cost in the south. Just in case you missed it

You mentioned them as a factor, fair enough, but did not mention them as a "big" factor or just a factor. You did write "Now couple this with irish retailers being greedy, greedy B*stards and you get the reasons why Irish people shop up North.". Not all irish retailers are "greedy, greedy B*stards", I can assure you. The vast majority of people who work in retail in Ireland earn less than the average Irish public sector wage, for example.

MysticalRain

jimmmy wrote: »

There are tens of thousands of retailers in the country and its all their fault ? The greedy retailers ? Even though some of them eg lidl + Dunnes have shops on both sides of the border ? You think its a conspiracy by tens of thousands of people to be greedy....even though many are going bust ?
There is more to it than that, my friend. Look at the costs businesses here have to pay, and the taxes it pay to support the govt.

If you think business is that lucrative, and retailers here are greedy, why do you not set up a shop here ? I do not see many people doing so and making their fortune.

Sure costs are higher (I sympathize with retailers who have to pay exorbitant rents). But you have to admit the "Ripoff Republic" mentality did play a big part in retailers overcharging down here, and some retailers are still living in cloud cuckoo land when it comes to the prices they're charging. They can't really complain about free market economics when things aren't going their way.

jimmmy

MysticalRain wrote: »

They can't really complain about free market economics when things aren't going their way.

But the vat they have to charge is over a third more than in the north ( 21.5% as opposed to 15% ). Not surprising when the govt pays its employees more than the uk govt pays theirs. Then electricity is expensive ....not surprising when you look at esb wage rates. Then insurance.....accountancy fees ....the cost of cars.....
Its not a free market in the costs businesses here pay.

MysticalRain

jimmmy wrote: »

But the vat they have to charge is over a third more than in the north ( 21.5% as opposed to 15% ). Not surprising when the govt pays its employees more than the uk govt pays theirs. Then electricity is expensive ....not surprising when you look at esb wage rates. Then insurance.....accountancy fees ....the cost of cars.....
Its not a free market in the costs businesses here pay.

Electricity is expensive in lots of places. I've lived in countries where electricity costs were skyhigh and retailers still didn't charge as much as they do over here.

The litigation problem has been reduced by government reforms (note how the costs were apparently never passed on).

Thousands of cheap Europeans kept labour costs down during the boom years.

Accountants fees don't cost that much in the greater scheme of things.

We're talking about retailers here, so cars are pretty much irrelevant.

You're basically making excuses for retailer's greed here. If retailers want my money, they're going to have to stop making excuses and earn it. Like the public sector, they seem to have this sense of entitlement where they can still earn as much money as they were making during the boom years. The problem is we're all broke now, and we have to do what we can to survive.

OMD

MysticalRain wrote: »

Thousands of cheap Europeans kept labour costs down during the boom years.

No they didn't. We have a minimum wage 40% higher than that in NI. I have never understood how people failed to realise that we lived in a very highly paid country so obviously prices were going to be more expensive.

MysticalRain

OMD wrote: »

No they didn't. We have a minimum wage 40% higher than that in NI. I have never understood how people failed to realise that we lived in a very highly paid country so obviously prices were going to be more expensive.

Sure, but our minimum wage isn't exactly "highly paid", and wages would still have been higher if there was less competition in the labour market.

OMD

MysticalRain wrote: »

Sure, but our minimum wage isn't exactly "highly paid", .

Certainly highly paid compared to UK. 20 year old working minimum wage in UK gets slightly over €5 an hour.

jimmmy

MysticalRain wrote: »

Electricity is expensive in lots of places.
.

We have the second most expensive electricity in the EC, I believe.

MysticalRain wrote: »

Thousands of cheap Europeans kept labour costs down during the boom years..

Still the minimum wage here is 50% more than in N. Ireland, and many of the young shop workers , cleaners etc in N. I. are on or close to the minimum wage there.o

MysticalRain wrote: »

Accountants fees don't cost that much in the greater scheme of things.
.

Still, it all adds up.

MysticalRain wrote: »

We're talking about retailers here, so cars are pretty much irrelevant.
.

If a shopworker want to buy a car, say a Ford Fiesta or Focus, he will pay a lot more for it than if he lived in the north.

One of the main things of course is that our vat rate is over a third higher than in the north - 21.5% versus 15%. Plus the private sector in the north does not have to gather taxes + send them to their govt to support public servants on an average wage of 973 per week.

MysticalRain

Still the minimum wage here is 50% more than in N. Ireland, and many of the young shop workers , cleaners etc in N. I. are on or close to the minimum wage there.o

Well if a business can't make a decent profit while paying their staff the minimum wage, then they don't deserve to be in business in the first place.

If a shopworker want to buy a car, say a Ford Fiesta or Focus, he will pay a lot more for it than if he lived in the north.

If they're on the minimum wage, they're probably not going to own a car in the first place.

One of the main things of course is that our vat rate is over a third higher than in the north - 21.5% versus 15%. Plus the private sector in the north does not have to gather taxes + send them to their govt to support public servants on an average wage of 973 per week.

The VAT rate still doesn't account for all of it. Even if it is cut, retailers will just pocket the difference, if their past behavior is anything to go by.

As Ben Dunne said the other day, retailers need to stop whining and get real. I can't afford to treat Irish businesses as a charity that I am expected to donate my money to just for the sake of misguided patriotism.

P. Breathnach

jimmmy wrote: »

... Plus the private sector in the north does not have to gather taxes + send them to their govt to support public servants on an average wage of 973 per week.

Every question seems to come down to the same thing for jimmmy: bash the public sector.

Kindly give a citation for your suggestion that the average pay for public servants is 973 a week.

Absurdum

papachango wrote: »

What can the government do to stop this? Force the ESB to lower its prices,

The Commission for Energy Regulation decide what the price is
http://www.cer.ie/
Prices have been increased over the last decade in order to attract competition to the market in order to end the ESB's monopoly. The net result has been higher prices, and a much lower dividend paid to the government.

irish_bob wrote: »

if only state costs would also come down , local authority rates have actually increased , to pay the civil sevants of course
energy costs are far higher in the south due to the redicolously high wages paid to ESB staff , incedently , the head of the esb union brendan ogle was on radio yesterday threatening to switch off the power if any attempt to either cut esb wages or cut staff numbers was made , charming men theese union heads

ESB staff costs represent about 15% of their operating costs which is in line with similar companies worldwide. Brendan Ogle is not the head of "the esb union" btw, he represents a small number of workers.

papachango

jimmmy wrote: »

You mentioned them as a factor, fair enough, but did not mention them as a "big" factor or just a factor. You did write "Now couple this with irish retailers being greedy, greedy B*stards and you get the reasons why Irish people shop up North.". Not all irish retailers are "greedy, greedy B*stards", I can assure you. The vast majority of people who work in retail in Ireland earn less than the average Irish public sector wage, for example.

I know a lot of Irish retailers are not greedy, but for the most part they are. When I refer to retailers I do not refer to those employed at the till or the store room who have to work for low wages, but rather the owners of such outlets. I don't include the small family retailer with one shop, but rather the larger ones. supervalu, spar, etc.
Look at tesco for example, 'every little helps'. they have a very aggresive policy of pushing smaller retailers out of the market. Also if they have a product that is selling well on their shelves, 5 weeks later they have their own brand product for sale there instead! It's nazi retailing, and the little bit of choice that the consumer has is forced upon them. They screw the supplier too, whilst generating insane profits.
Hope this clears it up.

irish_bob

murphaph wrote: »

I've heard Budapest has lovely christmas markets lol. Sorry, couldn't resist bob!

id rather starve than visit budapest one more time

OMD

MysticalRain wrote: »

Well if a business can't make a decent profit while paying their staff the minimum wage, then they don't deserve to be in business in the first place.

.

Say for example you have 2 identical businesses one in Ireland one in NI, both employing 5 workers aged 18-21 at minimum wage. The Irish business will have to earn an extra €50,000 a year simply to pay the extra cost of wages. That is a lot of extra money to pay out and eats into any chance of making a decent profit. Add to this the higher costs of VAT, rent, light, heat, telephone, insurance and I am sure even you MysticRain will see how hard it is for Irish businesses to compete with NI ones.

OMD

papachango wrote: »

I know a lot of Irish retailers are not greedy, but for the most part they are. When I refer to retailers I do not refer to those employed at the till or the store room who have to work for low wages, but rather the owners of such outlets. I don't include the small family retailer with one shop, but rather the larger ones. supervalu, spar, etc.
Look at tesco for example, 'every little helps'. they have a very aggresive policy of pushing smaller retailers out of the market. Also if they have a product that is selling well on their shelves, 5 weeks later they have their own brand product for sale there instead! It's nazi retailing, and the little bit of choice that the consumer has is forced upon them. They screw the supplier too, whilst generating insane profits.
Hope this clears it up.

But tesco isn't an Irish retailer. It is hard to blame Irish retailers for the actions of massive multinationals such as tesco.

Absurdum

papachango wrote: »

Also if they have a product that is selling well on their shelves, 5 weeks later they have their own brand product for sale there instead!

Their "Change for Good" thing didn't last too long either, many products have gone up again and in some cases, more expensive than ever.

Absurdum

OMD wrote: »

Say for example you have 2 identical businesses one in Ireland one in NI, both employing 5 workers aged 18-21 at minimum wage. The Irish business will have to earn an extra €50,000 a year simply to pay the extra cost of wages.

The difference is €33,000.

papachango

OMD wrote: »

But tesco isn't an Irish retailer. It is hard to blame Irish retailers for the actions of massive multinationals such as tesco.

You are right, but I feel you are splitting hairs here. Tesco may not be an Irish retailer as such, but tesco is a retailer in ireland. Hence it is an Irish retailer!

MysticalRain

OMD wrote: »

Say for example you have 2 identical businesses one in Ireland one in NI, both employing 5 workers aged 18-21 at minimum wage. The Irish business will have to earn an extra €50,000 a year simply to pay the extra cost of wages. That is a lot of extra money to pay out and eats into any chance of making a decent profit. Add to this the higher costs of VAT, rent, light, heat, telephone, insurance and I am sure even you MysticRain will see how hard it is for Irish businesses to compete with NI ones.

Assuming you're using the same minimum wage figures I'm using, the difference is about to €32,552 for five people, or the equivalent cost of a low-end BMW or house extension for the business owner.

If Irish retailers can't deal with the effects of globalization, and free markets, and then they have no business trying to compete in a 21st-century economy. When people in my industry (IT) complain about having to compete with people in other countries who can work for a fraction of what an Irish worker costs, we're just told to suck it up by the likes of IBEC. All we can do is reduce our costs and become more competitive. I do realize there are external factors at play here like you mentioned, but the fact is Irish retailers spend far too much time blaming everybody but themselves for the mess they're in.

Taxipete29

For those hammering on ESB it should be noted that they are not permitted to offer discounts or reduce their prices at the moment to allow the competition to get a foot hold in the market and not get squeezed out.

creeper1

irish_bob wrote: »

anyone who shops north has less entitlement to complain about the state of the country as far as im concerned , by all means , hammer the politicans but dont give your money to the queen of englands goverment , she wont build any roads or hospitals for us

I like your sentiment and agree entirely but in reality this is the place that our money is going.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZMQ8FfuSoc

At any rate the waste is shocking.

Now I wouldn't be so quick to condem anyone going North.

OMD

papachango wrote: »

You are right, but I feel you are splitting hairs here. Tesco may not be an Irish retailer as such, but tesco is a retailer in ireland. Hence it is an Irish retailer!

Not splitting hairs at all. Tesco is an international company and behaves the same everywhere. If you shop in tescos in the north you face exactly the same problems.

OMD

MysticalRain wrote: »

Assuming you're using the same minimum wage figures I'm using, the difference is about to €32,552 for five people, or the equivalent cost of a low-end BMW or house extension for the business owner.

If Irish retailers can't deal with the effects of globalization, and free markets, and then they have no business trying to compete in a 21st-century economy. When people in my industry (IT) complain about having to compete with people in other countries who can work for a fraction of what an Irish worker costs, we're just told to suck it up by the likes of IBEC. All we can do is reduce our costs and become more competitive. I do realize there are external factors at play here like you mentioned, but the fact is Irish retailers spend far too much time blaming everybody but themselves for the mess they're in.

Apologies for the figures I did them quickly in my head. The actual difference is €40k based on average working hours. To a small business employing 5 people, €40k is a huge amount. As I said then you have to add in all the extra expenses such as insurance, rent, light, heat etc you can see the extra burden they have to carry.

Absurdum

OMD wrote: »

Apologies for the figures I did them quickly in my head. The actual difference is €40k based on average working hours. To a small business employing 5 people, €40k is a huge amount. As I said then you have to add in all the extra expenses such as insurance, rent, light, heat etc you can see the extra burden they have to carry.

They have different minimum wage rates in the UK depending on age; something we should consider perhaps?
http://direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/Pay/DG_10027201

Either way, you're right of course, €30k or €40k is far too much of a difference.

seamus

Absurdum wrote: »

They have different minimum wage rates in the UK depending on age; something we should consider perhaps?

We have that too, younger workers or those undergoing training can be paid less than the national minimum for a certain period of time.

I imagine the bands weren't all that heavily used in the last ten years - most low-paying jobs were crying out for workers, so anyone paying less than the usual minimum wage would have a very difficult time finding workers.

irish_bob

Taxipete29 wrote: »

For those hammering on ESB it should be noted that they are not permitted to offer discounts or reduce their prices at the moment to allow the competition to get a foot hold in the market and not get squeezed out.

and im sure ESB just hate those terms :rolleyes:

Dannyboy83

LOL, its undeniable that retailers (Irish or otherwise) have been ripping people off, for years.
In fact, its was so bad that they launched the NCA http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/ which was subsequently deemed to be the "byword for public waste"

With a board of 14 managing a staff of about 25, the agency became a byword for public waste.

It spent €200,000 on a contract with a public relations firm to mainly issue press releases and the head of a public body with the remit to ensure that consumers were getting value for money, could also earn more than €200,000 annually excluding pension costs - - eclipsing the earnings of the chairman of the US Federal Reserve.

Is it any wonder, that the country is broke?

So at last the penny has dropped but as our recent examples of rip-off taxpayer scams show, public sector computer projects are a bonanza for insiders. So, it would be foolish to expect value for money in the NCA project as the agency has been a burden on the taxpayer so far but a boon for the insiders.

There is an entire boards.ie forum here dedicated to it
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=235

Other links:
http://www.finfacts.ie/bestbuys.htm
http://www.valueireland.com/category/shopping/
http://www.ripoff.ie/ (theres even a public sector option there)
http://www.leovaradkar.ie/?p=123

westtip

to Op I don't think so

Was in Enniskillen last night at 10.45 pm - the rush to get booze through the checkouts on a wet Friday night before 11.00 pm deadline for off licence sales was going on

six bottles of half decent wine, 20 quid, 15 cans of Carlsberg (440ml) 10 quid , 6 bottles of Old Speckled Hen 8 quid.

38 pounds = about 42 Euro.

Here: Cheapest bottle of plonk in most stores about 6 euro, 15 cans of Carlsberg about 15 Euro, Old Speckled Hen - lucky if you can find it but about 2.50 a bottle for most specialist bottled beers in a supermarket chain

Cost here = 36 + 15 + 15 = 76 Euro

Not quite but almost twice as expensive

And before anyone asks how much was the petrol - I was within 40 minutes drive of Enniskillen on other business so the extra petrols was about 10 euro - factor this in even on a small shopping trip like this - and it was still worth it - factor it in on a special trip to Enniskillen say for Christmas shopping and it becomes an insignificant part of the total saving.

VAT and excise duty is haemoraging across the border - further adding to the woes.

The savings on alcohol are about 80% on general packaged goods about 40% on kids clothers about 30%.......

What can he do??? Nothing.

BTW needed to get some booze in as a few poeple I drink with in the pub decided to watch the match tonight around someones houes - we all decided to watch it at this way as its too expensive to go to the pub....more revenue lost.

Sponge Bob

westtip wrote: »

What can he do??? Nothing.

But Mary Coughlan will appeal (again) to our patriotic duty in supporting the Supervalu owner class who pay her regular election expenses like the good FFers they are.

We shall all heed her call this time, not last like christmas when we ignored her.

jetfiremuck

Did anyone see the release if that committee report that Dept had requested looking into the north shopping exodus. This if I remember was started 6 months ago. Lenihan needs to do something anything FFS to show some cred that he is at least making an attempt

Taxipete29

irish_bob wrote: »

and im sure ESB just hate those terms :rolleyes:

Yes Im sure a company who is seeing its profits fall and is losing customers is delighted that they cant compete on a level playing pitch even if they are semi-state. :rolleyes:

Absurdum

westtip wrote: »

six bottles of half decent wine, 20 quid, 15 cans of Carlsberg (440ml) 10 quid , 6 bottles of Old Speckled Hen 8 quid.

38 pounds = about 42 Euro.

Here: Cheapest bottle of plonk in most stores about 6 euro, 15 cans of Carlsberg about 15 Euro, Old Speckled Hen - lucky if you can find it but about 2.50 a bottle for most specialist bottled beers in a supermarket chain

Cost here = 36 + 15 + 15 = 76 Euro

Just from a quick search for something similar here (granted they may be slightly old links)

18 bottles of Becks 275ml (total 4.95 litres Vs your 6.6l of Carlsberg) = €12.49 in Tesco
http://freeb.ie/2009/10/02/tesco-becks-18x275ml-pack-e12-49/

6 x Marques de Leon wine 75cl - €4 each (Tesco again) - €24
http://www.cheapeats.ie/2009/10/05/special-offers-at-tesco-11/

Couldn't find a price for Old Speckled Hen, but let's say we can find something similar on offer for €2 a bottle - €12

total €48.49 - not a whole lot of difference especially if there is significant fuel costs (and associated wear and tear etc.)

Becks is way nicer than Carlsberg (plus I think NI Carlsberg is 3.2%!) - plus 18 small bottles Vs 12 larger cans spread out over a night or two isn't a huge difference imo, and there are always beer offers on if you're after something else, but I accept the €4 wine is probably utter pi$$!

_Kooli_

Absurdum wrote: »

Just from a quick search for something similar here (granted they may be slightly old links)

18 bottles of Becks 275ml (total 4.95 litres Vs your 6.6l of Carlsberg) = €12.49 in Tesco
http://freeb.ie/2009/10/02/tesco-becks-18x275ml-pack-e12-49/

6 x Marques de Leon wine 75cl - €4 each (Tesco again) - €24
http://www.cheapeats.ie/2009/10/05/special-offers-at-tesco-11/

Couldn't find a price for Old Speckled Hen, but let's say we can find something similar on offer for €2 a bottle - €12

total €48.49 - not a whole lot of difference especially if there is significant fuel costs (and associated wear and tear etc.)

Becks is way nicer than Carlsberg (plus I think NI Carlsberg is 3.2%!) - plus 18 small bottles Vs 12 larger cans spread out over a night or two isn't a huge difference imo, and there are always beer offers on if you're after something else, but I accept the €4 wine is probably utter pi$$!

Get your years supply in one trip and you can multiply that saving big time.
Plus do a couple of months grocery shopping while you are at it.

Absurdum

or quit drinking :P

westtip

Absurdum wrote: »

Just from a quick search for something similar here (granted they may be slightly old links)

18 bottles of Becks 275ml (total 4.95 litres Vs your 6.6l of Carlsberg) = €12.49 in Tesco
http://freeb.ie/2009/10/02/tesco-becks-18x275ml-pack-e12-49/

6 x Marques de Leon wine 75cl - €4 each (Tesco again) - €24
http://www.cheapeats.ie/2009/10/05/special-offers-at-tesco-11/

Couldn't find a price for Old Speckled Hen, but let's say we can find something similar on offer for €2 a bottle - €12

total €48.49 - not a whole lot of difference especially if there is significant fuel costs (and associated wear and tear etc.)

Becks is way nicer than Carlsberg (plus I think NI Carlsberg is 3.2%!) - plus 18 small bottles Vs 12 larger cans spread out over a night or two isn't a huge difference imo, and there are always beer offers on if you're after something else, but I accept the €4 wine is probably utter pi$$!

I grabbed Carlsberg as it was about 10.57pm and I had to get to the checkout agreed - I prefer Becks myself but was in a rush;it is 3.8% BTW which is perfectly ok for drinking at home. I generally split a can with my wife when we have a bevvy at home, a leaflet i got in my paper this weekend from Tesco was promoting 2 x 8 packs for of Carlsberg 500ml cans for 24 Euro, as the leaflet said "Thats only 1.50 per can" for 500 ml cans thats easy to work out at 3.00 a litre, the 15 cans for ten sterling (11 Euro) for 15 x440 ml cans = 6.6 litrs for 11 Euro = 1.66 a litre. In my mind thats good value compared to every little helps down south with Tesco, its not far off half the price.

So the equivalent Tesco price here is 6.6 littres x 3 euro a litre = 19.80 euro = 17.82 sterling (compared with a Tenner in the north)

The wines were not the cheapest plonk - OK bottles on offer - comparable wine here would retail at about 7 euro so my price comparison was generous, although I note Tesco has 3 bottle for 15 euro offer of some half decent wines; but that is 3 bottles for 15 euro = about 13.50 sterling - so in the north you get an extra bottle for your 13.50 sterling. Still much better value - despite the great offer from Tesco, but lets use this offer for comparison with my purchases,

20 sterling up north using the Tesco offer in ROI, of 15 euro for 3 (30 euro for 6) = 27 sterling

London Pride in Tesco is E2.49 (£2.24 sterling) a bottle - this would compare with a bottle of OSH as a decent bitter. its a 500 ml bottle, the price of £2.24 compared with the price of £1.33 I paid in the north for OSH (5.2% BTW) at 3 500 ml bottles for 4 quid = £1.33 a bottle (40% cheaper), there is much more choice for bottled ales in the north as well - Tesco in the north also stock Marstons Pedigree.

Price I paid in north 8 sterling price equivalent here it woudl have cost me £13.44 -saving £5.44

so in actual fact my total cost of 38 sterlign compared with £67.44 sterling equivalent down her = £29.44 ( or an extra nine bottles of wine)

for my full Christmas shop I expect to spend about 200 on alcohol up north and save about 160. Most of it it will I hasten to add be for presents!



I usually shop at Lidl when i go north so I can compare directly with what I normally buy here - I generally find the savings on alcohol are ......huge...Lidl BTW in Enniskillen is I find cheaper than Asda or Tesco.

but I take on board some of your researched comments - but we all know its cheaper up there and for a large shop is well worth the savings.

Plus I take a kind of perverse pleasure in pis*ing the government off.

And why woudl I quite drinking like most of the adult population I am adicted to the stuff.

the_dark_side

Are'nt we supposed to be thinking in terms of a single European community now? What, with all the calls from our government to think European and vote Yes to the Lisbon treaty, because tying us closer to the EU will help our ecconomy as we will be part of the new, revised EU bloc where open trade will be enhanced and encouraged....

The Dutch have always gone over the border into Germany to shop, the French go into Spain, the Canadians go into the States, the Norweigans come to Scotland on the ferry to do their Christmas shopping because of the value... What is the goddam problem here?? Arent we supporting the ecconomy on the 'Island of Ireland'? We are keeping many people from the South who work in the North, in employment. Small country mentality

the_dark_side

the_dark_side wrote: »

Are'nt we supposed to be thinking in terms of a single European community now? What, with all the calls from our government to think European and vote Yes to the Lisbon treaty, because tying us closer to the EU will help our ecconomy as we will be part of the new, revised EU bloc where open trade will be enhanced and encouraged....

The Dutch have always gone over the border into Germany to shop, the French go into Spain, the Canadians go into the States, the Norweigans come to Scotland on the ferry to do their Christmas shopping because of the value... What is the goddam problem here?? Arent we supporting the ecconomy on the 'Island of Ireland'? We are keeping many people from the South who work in the North, in employment. Small country mentality

are you serious, considering the economy of the island of ireland is split in 2, all revenue in the 6 counties going to the queen not to stormount, all the money in the republic going to the exchequer. how many people are employed in the north compared with the money going north and plus you supporting people from the south working in the north gives even more money to the queen in income taxes

westtip

Deleted User wrote: »

are you serious, considering the economy of the island of ireland is split in 2, all revenue in the 6 counties going to the queen not to stormount, all the money in the republic going to the exchequer. how many people are employed in the north compared with the money going north and plus you supporting people from the south working in the north gives even more money to the queen in income taxes

I don't think she takes it all in personally _ I understand she is on the social as well....

dresden8

Yes to Lisbon. Yes to Europe.

Short memories.

the_dark_side

dresden8 wrote: »

Yes to Lisbon. Yes to Europe.

Short memories.

my very point... there was some tongue and cheek in my post above

fredzer

skearon wrote: »

So put your family first, put your country first, and spend your money in your state.

Every euro lost to the UK, is one Euro lost of the State to pay for the services and/or welfare for 'the thousands of Irish familes trying to make ends meet.', not the mention the lost retail jobs BANKS in the South.

Fixed that for you and as for this 'if you had an ounce of patriotism' spiel coming from Cowen and co, makes me want to puke!:mad:

Shopping up north all the way till they cop on.

I bought a TV in Curry's last year, in Curry's here in the south it was €1100 and up north the same TV was £800.

Before I went up north to get it I went into my local Curry's to ask if they would match the price or give a discount, I got told no to both, the sales guy wouldn't even throw in a HDMI cable for free :mad:, so up north I went of course.

Going into the northern store was like walking into a different business, staff were all very friendly, the sales guy I dealt with gave me a HDMI cable worth £40 for free, I bought a few other bits bringing the total to just over a £1000 and at the till he gave me a 10% discount. Is it any wonder people are going up north and businesses are losing out here.

Noffles

Will certainly be doing a single visit to to the North for xmas, it may cost at least 50 quid in fuel for me as I come form the ****ty south east but it'll STILL be worth it as we've a good few things to get

I would much rather give my cash up there than to some **** hole like Dunnes!

skearon

fredzer wrote: »

Fixed that for you and as for this 'if you had an ounce of patriotism' spiel coming from Cowen and co, makes me want to puke!:mad:

Shopping up north all the way till they cop on.

Fine, but don't complain when welfare is rolled back to last year's rates, there's no christmas bonus, child benefit gets cuts 20% etc

Shopping outside the state is not pain free

seclachi

Couldnt they have customs and excise at the borders checking goods coming in ?

I know for online shopping it seems they pay the tax to the irish government, I found this out after I sent a whinging email to amazon wondering why the price of my digital camera went up by 6%.

Sand

@Skearon

Fine, but don't complain when welfare is rolled back to last year's rates, there's no christmas bonus, child benefit gets cuts 20% etc

Shopping outside the state is not pain free

Skearon, as income declines, the demand for shopping at reasonable prices will only increase.

The only way out of the death spiral is for retailers to stop ripping people off, and for the government to reduce the underlying cost base. When people ask about the benefits of free trade, this, the choice to not get ripped off...thats the benefit of free trade.

Nobody is going to get out the cheque book and think of Ireland given the price differentials until the costs and hassle of heading north outweigh the savings.

MysticalRain

skearon wrote: »

Fine, but don't complain when welfare is rolled back to last year's rates, there's no christmas bonus, child benefit gets cuts 20% etc

SW is going to be cut anyway. That's only going to drive more people to shop over the border.

Shopping outside the state is not pain free

It's a free market. At least now we can justify our votes for Lisbon.

Absurdum

Well, at least we won't be spending hundreds of millions getting to South Africa next summer

westtip

Absurdum wrote: »

Well, at least we won't be spending hundreds of millions getting to South Africa next summer

Even less VAT and excise duty as the pubs won't be full of world cup revellers.