Is darren Flecther becoming the best midfielder in the esl

blackbetty69

redzerdrog wrote: »

he is easily man utds best CM but is below world class but is still a very good player.

agreed. he has improved immensely over the last couple of years, but united are still missing that big prescence in midfield like keane brought... jus like what lampard and gerrard bring to chelsea and pool, sum1 that drives the team on

Wreck

I think Fletcher has developed into an excellent player over the last two years and he is massively important to United. I'd love to have him at Arsenal. He's not even in the top five midfielders in the premiership though.

Boggles

blackbetty69 wrote: »

agreed. he has improved immensely over the last couple of years, but united are still missing that big prescence in midfield like keane brought... jus like what lampard and gerrard bring to chelsea and pool, sum1 that drives the team on

Gerrard doesn't play in midfield anymore.

Lampard is excellent at what he does, but in order to do it he needs protection.

The difference is Fletcher could play in midfield with anyone, Lampard couldn't.

jesus_thats_gre

He is improving all the time and is a good player.. Leave it at that..

gosplan

Boggles wrote: »

Gerrard doesn't play in midfield anymore..

OK, I'll bite - Yes he does.

Boggles wrote: »

Lampard is excellent at what he does, but in order to do it he needs protection.

The difference is Fletcher could play in midfield with anyone, Lampard couldn't.

Erm, in the same way, couldn't we say Fletcher needs someone to do the attacking for him.

jesus_thats_gre

Boggles wrote: »

Gerrard doesn't play in midfield anymore.

Lampard is excellent at what he does, but in order to do it he needs protection.

The difference is Fletcher could play in midfield with anyone, Lampard couldn't.

He is the same type as player as Lucas. I expect Lucas to reach the same level as Fletcher. If he does, I will be delighted.

Can we stop this silly conversation now?

Boggles

gosplan wrote: »

OK, I'll bite - Yes he does.

There is nothing to bite about.

He plays on the left wing for country and up front for the Scouse.

gosplan wrote: »

Erm, in the same way, couldn't we say Fletcher needs someone to do the attacking for him.

Fletcher is an all round midfielder and is well able to attack and score.

Morzadec

How anyone can say anyone other than Fabregas is the best centre mid at the moment is beyond me.

If we're talking about an 'all-round' centre mid then it's Essien.

But Fletcher is becoming a vital part of United's team especially in the big games. I would agree with the general consensus on here though, that he is a very good player but will never quite be the best (I don't think he will ever quite be considered 'World Class').

antod

he is a good prem player but not good enough to get into a top team like barca,cause he is limited with skill what he is does in midfield is to foul and break up play.

Boggles

antod wrote: »

he is a good prem player but not good enough to get into a top team like barca,cause he is limited with skill what he is does in midfield is to foul and break up play.

Barcas system does not function without the type player you are describing. :eek:

blackbetty69

Boggles wrote: »

There is nothing to bite about.

He plays on the left wing for country and up front for the Scouse.

he doesnt play left wing for country now that young and cole are there

Boggles

blackbetty69 wrote: »

he doesnt play left wing for country now that young and cole are there

What?

Young can't get near the team, Cole, which Cole?

Pro. F

Vampireskiss wrote: »

Despite Uniteds loss yesterday, I thought flecther was immense and stood out compared to essien,lampard and ballack and amoung his own teammates?

Is he the best central midfielder? No. He's nowhere near the likes of Essien and Cesc. In terms of the type of player he is, he's best compared to Essien imo. Essien has a much better shot, slightly better passing and better close control. But Essien didn't get as much chance to show all that yesterday (like so often) because of his position in Chelsea's formation.

Fletcher is very good but nowhere near the best. Having said that, his ability to constantly improve and make the most out of his abilities is amazing so who knows what's yet to come with him.

Morzadec

Pro. F wrote: »

Is he the best central midfielder? No. He's nowhere near the likes of Essien and Cesc. In terms of the type of player he is, he's best compared to Essien imo. Essien has a much better shot, slightly better passing and better close control. But Essien didn't get as much chance to show all that yesterday (like so often) because of his position in Chelsea's formation.

Fletcher is very good but nowhere near the best. Having said that, his ability to constantly improve and make the most out of his abilities is amazing so who knows what's yet to come with him.

Essien is physically superior as well. Not to say that Fletcher is weak physically but there are very few who can match Essien's athleticism, strength and fitness.

mink_man

Boggles wrote: »

What?

Young can't get near the team, Cole, which Cole?

sorry boggles, but you're wrong...again...

theres young, joe cole and lennon so why would they play gerrard on the elft wing...id take young or cole on the left wing over gerrard any day,

Boggles

mink_man wrote: »

sorry boggles, but you're wrong...again...

theres young, joe cole and lennon so why would they play gerrard on the elft wing...id take young or cole on the left wing over gerrard any day,

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Mitch Connor

mink_man wrote: »

sorry boggles, but you're wrong...again...

theres young, joe cole and lennon so why would they play gerrard on the elft wing...id take young or cole on the left wing over gerrard any day,

You might - but Cappello has hardly capped Young, and Joe Cole has been injured for ages. Lennon has rarely played LW for England.

It doesn't matter what you think, what has happened is the issue.

Considering Capello has been playing 2 up front, Barry in CM, SWP/Lennon on the right and then Lampard and Gerrard - where are you saying Lampard and Gerrard have been playing in the england team?

mink_man

Boggles wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

what does gerrard offer on the left wing??

Boggles

mink_man wrote: »

what does gerrard offer on the left wing??

Mink before I continue, you do now realise Gerrard does play on the left for England and has done for the majority of the World Cup Campaign?

Kess73

blackbetty69 wrote: »

he doesnt play left wing for country now that young and cole are there

Boggles wrote: »

What?

Young can't get near the team, Cole, which Cole?

mink_man wrote: »

sorry boggles, but you're wrong...again...

theres young, joe cole and lennon so why would they play gerrard on the elft wing...id take young or cole on the left wing over gerrard any day,

Gerrard has played on the left for England for the last nine caps he won. He is pretty much settled in that role for them at this stage.

mink_man

Mitch Connor wrote: »

You might - but Cappello has hardly capped Young, and Joe Cole has been injured for ages. Lennon has rarely played LW for England.

It doesn't matter what you think, what has happened is the issue.

Considering Capello has been playing 2 up front, Barry in CM, SWP/Lennon on the right and then Lampard and Gerrard - where are you saying Lampard and Gerrard have been playing in the england team?

does gerrard play LW for england? describe to me what LW is! Does he be running up and down the left wing all game? no he doesnt, he spends the majority of time in CM!

Boggles

mink_man wrote: »

does gerrard play LW for england? describe to me what LW is! Does he be running up and down the left wing all game? no he doesnt, he spends the majority of time in CM!

Oh right, I'm glad I asked the question so.

I'm gona leave this one to someone else buddy.

But I think in the World Campaign to answer your question 3 goals, 3 assists from the left.

Personally If I were Capello, I would play Young on the left, Gerrard on the right.

But then again that lad seems to know what he is doing.

Kess73

mink_man wrote: »

does gerrard play LW for england? describe to me what LW is! Does he be running up and down the left wing all game? no he doesnt, he spends the majority of time in CM!

Actually he has being going up and down the left wing for England, and working in tandem with the left back.

He does cut inside and swap roles with Rooney at times, but he has spent very little time playing in the centre since Capello took over.


Anyway we are getting off the original Fletcher topic here, plus it means I am agreeing with Boggles, so no good can come of this.

Fromvert

Gerrard does not play in midfield, he's a striker simple as. He plays on the left for England.

People who say differently obviously don't watch Liverpool or England games.


Fletcher isn't the best in the league or world class but he is a very good midfielder, is always improving and is vital to United.

whatawaster

mink_man wrote: »

sorry boggles, but you're wrong...again...

theres young, joe cole and lennon so why would they play gerrard on the elft wing...id take young or cole on the left wing over gerrard any day,

well you shouldn’t, because Gerrard is the best Right Mid, Left Mid, Centre Mid or Attacking Mid England have.

And he does play there for England. On the left, though he doesn’t play as a winger.

tdv

He's a decent player but people in this thread saying he's better than Essien,Fabregas & Gerrard or on the same level as them players are having a laugh.

I wasnt overly impressed with him yesterday either. Broke up alot of play which is a plus but didnt see him do anything creative what so ever with the ball & gave away lots of silly fouls including the one that lead to the goal for Chelsea.

There must be alot of average performances going on the EPL this season if Fletchers performance yesterday stood out for people.

event

antod wrote: »

he is a good prem player but not good enough to get into a top team like barca,cause he is limited with skill what he is does in midfield is to foul and break up play.

he wouldnt get into barca's team, but then not many would

he would get into any other team in the PL though and he would get into madrids team IMO

LuckyLloyd

Johner wrote: »

Fletcher went from being underated to now being overrated.

This happens all the time.

whatawaster

event wrote: »

he wouldnt get into barca's team, but then not many would

he would get into any other team in the PL though and he would get into madrids team IMO

I’m not sure about Madrid, they have Diarra and Alonso.

tdv

event wrote: »

he wouldnt get into barca's team, but then not many would

he would get into any other team in the PL though and he would get into madrids team IMO

Cant see him over taking Alonso or L.Diarra's place in the team, cant see him taking any of the creative spots either. Maybe 1st choice sub would be his best hope.

mink_man

whatawaster wrote: »

well you shouldn’t, because Gerrard is the best Right Mid, Left Mid, Centre Mid or Attacking Mid England have.

And he does play there for England. On the left, though he doesn’t play as a winger.

Lampard????? and finally, boggles and co said gerrard played LW and i said he doesnt, whcih he doesnt, he may play on the left but he doesnt play LW

Boggles

mink_man wrote: »

Lampard????? and finally, boggles and co said gerrard played LW and i said he doesnt, whcih he doesnt, he may play on the left but he doesnt play LW

Where does he play so Mink Man?

event

tdv wrote: »

Cant see him over taking Alonso or L.Diarra's place in the team, cant see him taking any of the creative spots either. Maybe 1st choice sub would be his best hope.

whatawaster wrote: »

I’m not sure about Madrid, they have Diarra and Alonso.

i would prefer him to diarra tbh

Mitch Connor

Boggles wrote: »

Where does he play so Mink Man?

He plays on the left side of a vortex. Not left side of midfield.

flahavaj

Sounds like something from Star Trek, left side of a vortex.

Mitch Connor

flahavaj wrote: »

Sounds like something from Star Trek, left side of a vortex.

Well, you show me a team that knows how to realign their defelctor array frequency harmonics of the England vortex, and I'll admit it is a poor tactic to employ! [/nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnneeeeeeeeeeeerd]

~Rebel~

He plays the Zidane role for england. left side starting position, but free to roam inside or up to support the striker

Pro. F

Morzadec wrote: »

Essien is physically superior as well. Not to say that Fletcher is weak physically but there are very few who can match Essien's athleticism, strength and fitness.

I would say in terms of cardio Fletch matches Essien. But i agree, strength and athleticism (jumping ) Essien is better. But strength and athleticism can be made up for in football imho. Keane was a great illustration of that.

gosplan

Boggles wrote: »

There is nothing to bite about.

He plays on the left wing for country and up front for the Scouse.

So you're not one of these crazies that likes to divide teams into defenders, midfielders and strikers then. No 4-4-2's or 4-3-3's for you then.

BTW, the common perception is that Liverpool play with a lone striker and Gerrard behind him.

Funny the way no-one brought him up in the strikers thread recently though.

Also, funny the way everyone spoke about Benitez's tactics changing to a 4-4-2 for the United game when according to you, they always play 4-4-2.

Boggles wrote: »

Fletcher is an all round midfielder and is well able to attack and score

Yeah, remarkable record really.


Seriously Boggles. You have to be taking the p1ss with all of this at this stage. I appreciate you have different opinions to many people, especially Liverpool fans, but you're really beginning to disregard logic in your search for arguments now.

Boggles

gosplan wrote: »

So you're not one of these crazies that likes to divide teams into defenders, midfielders and strikers then. No 4-4-2's or 4-3-3's for you then.

WTF?

gosplan wrote: »

BTW, the common perception is that Liverpool play with a lone striker and Gerrard behind him.

Yes as a support striker?

What exactly are you arguing?

gosplan wrote: »

Yeah, remarkable record really.

Seriously Boggles. You have to be taking the p1ss at this stage.

Nothing to do with his record, you said he would need someone to do his attacking for him, I stated he is well able to attack and get on the score sheet.

Xavi6

I would love to stick this thread in a Delorian and send it back to 2005.

Macca07

If u are really looking at records then take a look at this.

Essien - 114 games - 12 goals - Chelsea - 45 games - 8 goals - Ghana

Fletcher - 140 games - 12 goals - ManU - 45 games - 4 goals - Scotland

Not bad for Fletch when people are considering Essien to be the best midfielder in England

Xavi6

Macca07 wrote: »

If u are really looking at records then take a look at this.

Essien - 114 games - 12 goals - Chelsea - 45 games - 8 goals - Ghana

Fletcher - 140 games - 12 goals - ManU - 45 games - 4 goals - Scotland

Not bad for Fletch when people are considering Essien to be the best midfielder in England

Makelele - 144 games - 2 goals - Chelsea - 71 games - 0 goals - France

He must've been shit so

Warper

This must be a piss-take but Darren Flecther the best midfielder in the esl??

In fairness the same players have been the best over the last few years namely Fabregas, Gerrard, Lampard and Essien (obv Ronaldo but hes gone). Fletcher will never be in the same category as any of these. This year Fabregas is head and shoulders over the rest and is clearly the best midfielder in the PL based on form.

The likes of Barry or Mascherano are ahead of Fletcher.

flahavaj

I hate when people trot out those kind of stats as evidence of a particular players prowess. Yes they have a certain role in defining a players scoring record or assists, but they're far from the be all and end all. The legacy of the Champ Manager generation of football fan I'm afraid. Especially players like Essien and Fletcher, whos attributes can't really be defined in such simplistic terms.

Xavi6

Warper wrote: »

The likes of Barry or Mascherano are ahead of Fletcher.

Not this season. He's been piss poor.

Macca07

Xavi6 wrote: »

Makelele - 144 games - 2 goals - Chelsea - 71 games - 0 goals - France

He must've been shit so

Thats my point exactly. It was gosplan that went on about records.
I'd say Keane's record wouldn't have been much better than any of these players. U can't go on about records with defensive midfield players

Boggles

Warper wrote: »

This year Fabregas is head and shoulders over the rest and is clearly the best midfielder in the PL based on form.

I agree, on form this year Fab is clearly the best CM in the league.

But then you say this.

Warper wrote: »

The likes of Barry or Mascherano are ahead of Fletcher.

On form which is how you gauged Fab above, Fletcher has been streets ahead of Barry and Masch.

Pro. F

tdv wrote: »

I wasnt overly impressed with him yesterday either. Broke up alot of play which is a plus but didnt see him do anything creative what so ever with the ball & gave away lots of silly fouls including the one that lead to the goal for Chelsea.

I don't rate his creativity as his strong point but you have to give him some credit for some of his passes yesterday. Remember the lovely floated through pass to Giggs - the one Giggs chipped well over. There were a few other good incisive passes but more importantly, on the creative side of things, was the fact that he got on the ball a lot and helped us keep possession and get moving forward. If you think all he brought was defensive play then you weren't watching very closely.

And he didn't give away lots of silly fouls. He harried their midfield all day, which inevitably led to some free kicks (not lots of silly ones). He got stuck in brilliantly and was a large part of the reason that Chelsea couldn't dominate like people were expecting.

gosplan wrote: »

Yeah, remarkable record really.

Seriously Boggles. You have to be taking the p1ss with all of this at this stage. I appreciate you have different opinions to many people, especially Liverpool fans, but you're really beginning to disregard logic in your search for arguments now.

Fletcher is a decent attacking threat who gets some important goals. Saying that is not off the wall like you're making out.

tdv

Macca07 wrote: »

If u are really looking at records then take a look at this.

Essien - 114 games - 12 goals - Chelsea - 45 games - 8 goals - Ghana

Fletcher - 140 games - 12 goals - ManU - 45 games - 4 goals - Scotland

Not bad for Fletch when people are considering Essien to be the best midfielder in England

Well thats just based on goals neither of them are in there teams for there goalscoring abilities. And still Essien has 4 more goals than him in less games aswell so I dont see the point in these stats if your arguing for Fletcher