Problem with getting our deposit back

MAB83

Will try to make this as short as possible. We moved in to an apartment in April. Paid a deposit of 1,100 to the Estate Agents which they gave to the Landlord (who lives in England and we haven't met). Last month we decided we had to move out as it was just too expensive for us and the Landlord refused to drop the price (we ended up getting a nice apartment nearby for much cheaper). When we rang the estate agents they said provided we gave 30 days notice that we would get our deposit back. We gave the 30 days notice and had the place spotless when we left, even the estate agent commented on it and asked if we got cleaners in. That was 2 weeks ago and still no sign of the deposit, finally the estate agents got back to us today and said that the Landlord won't give us back our deposit until someone else moves in because we broke the lease (we signed a years lease). Now if we knew this to start with we wouldn't have moved out but the estage agents said provided we give 30 days notice it would be fine? He still isn't dropping the price of the apartment and there's plenty of other apartments locally that are much cheaper so I can't see it being rented out anytime soon. Which means we could be without our deposit for months.

Can he do this? I phoned the PRTB who asked me to call back at 2pm as they were very busy and would talk to me then. Do we even have a leg to stand on here or will we have to wait for however long to get our deposit back? There are apartments where we live that are cheaper than his one that have been up on Daft for months, it doesn't look likely that that apartment will be rented out anytime soon. 1,100 euro is a lot of money to us and even just the principle alone we should get it back. Especially after the Estate Agents said it would be no problem when we gave our 30 days notice.

My girlfriend is very upset by this, is there anything that can be done? It's 2 hours before I can ring back the PRTB so any help would be appreciated, thank you.

eth0_

Unfortunately the majority of estate/letting agents cannot be trusted and you should have received that promise in writing.

It's just your word against theirs, and if it says in your lease that if you break the lease you forfeit your deposit, then you may well have lost the money.

MAB83

They just emailed us now saying that if it's not rented within a week we won't get it back at all. That's just ridiculous, there's no way it will be rented within a week. Can he really do this? If we knew any of this we wouldn't have moved out at all. None of this was ever explained to us And the lease says we only have to give 30 days notice.

RentDayBlues

Lesson learned - if losing your deposit is the most you have to pay for this you are doing well. Legally the LL is entitled to pursue you for the remaining rent on the lease

Kipperhell

They can technically charge you rent until next April too. They don't actually have to explain the entire law to you. Unfortunately somebody may have mislead you verbally but you have no proof of it.

There is nothing from stopping somebody else from saying a letting agent agreed when they didn't so you can see what way the law will see it.

You can blame them but it was in your interest to be fully aware. Unlikely you will get it back but you know better now.

MAB83

Fair enough if that's the case but we were told it wasn't. We asked twice if we would definitely get our deposit back, we have it in an email too that we would. We've been with this estate agents before so trusted their word and now they won't even try to help us. There is nothing in our Lease that says if we break it we don't get our deposit back, it just said we have to give a month's notice. If that's the case it should have been clearly stated on the lease and also the Estate agents should not have lied to us, they had nothing to gain in doing so.

The PRTB has asked us to fax in our Lease so we will see what happens but I think it is very unfair. We honestly didn't think we were doing anything wrong and that's what is getting to us.

Why didn't the Landlord just say any of this when we said we wanted to move out instead of waiting 6 weeks and 2 weeks after we've moved out to tell us?

RentDayBlues

Its not the LL's job to explain to you how the law works! you signed a 12 month lease, what did you think this meant? It means that both you and the LL agree to the T&C's of the lease for 12 months - not just until it suits you

My lease says 30 days notice but I also know its a 12 month lease so I have to honor it for 12 months, that's why I was happy to sign it.

Unless there is a break clause in your lease you are the one in the wrong, regardless of what the estate agent said. Unfortunately, your lease is with your LL not the estate agent so no matter what they said to you its the LL that you needed to agree this with before you decided to leave

MAB83

Ok. Well our fault then. I've just never had a problem like this before, I've obviously had more obliging Landlords in the past. I understand it's a 12 month lease but I thought if you had to break it that 30 days notice would be enough. Maybe because this is what happened in the past we thought it was the norm and went on the estate agent's word. The PRTB guy on the phone seemed hopeful enough though so I'll report back here with the outcome if anyone is interested. Thanks.

daveyboy_1ie

Hopefully the money you are saving for the rest of the year in the cheaper apartment covers the deposit and then next year you will be saving even more. Lesson learnt as they say. As the mod says, Trust none of the estate agents/ landlords as they have most of legislation on their side.

eth0_

Sorry to hear that. See what the PRTB or Threshold can do. Often a phone call from them can work wonders.

You cannot trust the majority of letting agents. Get everything in writing, record phone calls if you can (easily done on the majority of mobile phones).

Sleipnir

If you've already moved out, make sure they place you've left hasn't already been rented out again!

MAB83

eth0_ wrote: »

Sorry to hear that. See what the PRTB or Threshold can do. Often a phone call from them can work wonders.

You cannot trust the majority of letting agents. Get everything in writing, record phone calls if you can (easily done on the majority of mobile phones).

Thanks eth0. The guy from PRTB was very helpful anyway so hopefully there's something that can be done. He said if there's nothing in the Lease that states if we break the lease we don't get our deposit back that we have a case. And there isn't, I've gone over it a couple of times. So hopefully...ah it's just awful to see the girlfriend so upset over it you know, we only moved out because we needed to find somewhere cheaper so this is a downer if we don't get it back. We thought we were doing everything right or we wouldn't have done it otherwise. But like others have said we should have researched it more and shouldn't have trusted the Estage Agents, they were useless when it came to anything to do with the place (we even had to clean it ourselves when we moved in and discard of the previous tenants' rubbish, a whole wheelie bin full) so maybe we were stupid to believe them. Hopefully the PRTB will help us out. Like you said, a phonecall might help with the Landlord's decision. If he doesn't want to give the deposit back to us until someone else moves in then fair enough we'll have to wait. We'd be happier with that than to not get it back at all.

Sleipnir wrote: »

If you've already moved out, make sure they place you've left hasn't already been rented out again!

Definitely no one living in it yet but we'll keep an eye on it for sure.

EKRIUQ

If you had a lease for 12 months, and you broke the terms of the lease then you owe the remainder of the lease to the landlord, when that is paid I'm sure then you will get your security deposit.

Example:
If the cost of a lease for 12 months is €12,000 that's what's due, the terms of your lease was that the payments were over 12 equal payments monthly.
The Security deposit is a different thing but the landlord is within his rights to hold on to it in lew of your with outstanding balance.

And I'm pretty sure in a lot of instances if you tell tenants their going to loose their security deposit, then they just won't pay the last months rent. I've seen that happen before.

MAB83

EKRIUQ wrote: »

If you had a lease for 12 months, and you broke the terms of the lease then you owe the remainder of the lease to the landlord, when that is paid I'm sure then you will get your security deposit.

Example:
If the cost of a lease for 12 months is €12,000 that's what's due, the terms of your lease was that the payments were over 12 equal payments monthly.
The Security deposit is a different thing but the landlord is within his rights to hold on to it in lew of your with outstanding balance.

And I'm pretty sure in a lot of instances if you tell tenants their going to loose their security deposit, then they just won't pay the last months rent. I've seen that happen before.

I asked the PRTB guy that today and he said if it doesn't state it in the Lease then no, that's not a fact. Surely he knows his stuff. He wasn't sweet talking me either, he said there was a good chance that we won't get it back but he said that we should.

It apparently very much depends on the details of the Lease.

wyndham

EKRIUQ wrote: »

The Security deposit is a different thing but the landlord is within his rights to hold on to it in lew of your with outstanding balance.

I disagree. A new contract was formed when the letting agent, from whom they had rented, agreed that the deposit would be returned. (Mutual consent) Athough a verbal agreement, this supercedes the terms of the lease and they are entitled fully to the return of their deposit. I am sure the agent was eyeing up another juicy letting fee but whether or not they were entitled to consent to this on behalf of the landlord is another matter.

Who are the signatories to the lease? The agency or the landlord?

MAB83

wyndham wrote: »

I disagree. A new contract was formed when the letting agent, from whom they had rented, agreed that the deposit would be returned. (Mutual consent) Athough a verbal agreement, this supercedes the terms of the lease and they are entitled fully to the return of their deposit. I am sure the agent was eyeing up another juicy letting fee but whether or not they were entitled to consent to this on behalf of the landlord is another matter.

Who are the signatories to the lease? The agency or the landlord?

We have the letting agent's word that we'll get it back on email too which the PRTB want us to send them too. I presume that would be better than just their word?

Both the letting agent and the Landlord signed the lease.

Frezzin

I'm still trying to get my head around Irish law, but in the States there are legally binding verbal contracts. It keeps companies from making empty claims to customers. There are certain loopholes and the like, but general if this were in the States and an authorized agent of the EA said you'd get the deposit back, then they would be legally bound to honor that, irregardless of whether the landlord agreed or not. Would be their loss. That's the States though. Maybe someone with a good head around Irish law would have a better idea.

And if it wasn't on the contract, you can't hold someone accountable for it. Unless the contract had it specifically stated that breaking the lease would lose you the deposit, then you are entitled to it as long as you adhered to the terms of the lease (i.e. giving 30 days notice). That's basic contractual principles. You can't run law based on implied terms...what would be the point of signing anything?

lostinsuperfunk

You said the landlord lives in England.
Isn't there something about you being able to make a deduction in lieu of tax from rent payable in this case, because the landlord doesn't pay income tax in this country? If so it might offset your lost deposit. Maybe one of the regulars on this board or the PTRB could advise.
Best of luck.

brendanuk

Might make a difference, Thresholds Deposit Protection Scheme

http://www.threshold.ie/page.asp?menu=102&page=301

there is a draft letter to your TD, maybe you could mention your in the letter your particular situation and then fingers crossed.

Been 3 weeks since i left at the end of my lease, everything spotless nothing missing broke. Still waiting on my deposit.

brendanuk

Here is the the actual draft letter

http://www.threshold.ie/page.asp?menu=102&page=302

Extract
With Threshold’s help, I have lodged a dispute to the Private Residential Tenancies Board (PRTB) to get my deposit back. It is likely that it will take 12 months to process my case and that the PRTB will have to pay an adjudicator €650 to hear my dispute

Guess i am in for the long wait for my cash back

the_syco

MAB83 wrote: »

And the lease says we only have to give 30 days notice.

If the lease says this, I can't see how they can keep your deposit?

MAB83 wrote: »

we have it in an email too that we would.

Ah, I class this as written proof.

=-=

Not sure about this, but...
since you paid the deposit to the EA
it says in the lease that you only have to give 30 days notice
you got a confirmation email from the EA that you'd get the deposit back

...I don't see how the EA can withold the deposit?