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Denmark paying immigrants to go home

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24567…12

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    #32
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    O'Morris wrote: »
    While it's correct to say that this only applies to people who want to return, the Danish are going further by paying city councils to motivate foreigners to return home.



    It would be misleading to pretend that the Danish are doing this purely out of a concern for immigrants who feel stranded in Denmark. They're doing this because they want to see fewer non-European immigrants in their country. They've experienced the joys of multiculturalism and they seem to have come to the conclusion that it's worth paying money to experience less of it.

    That is actually a good point. I missed the funding for motivation part in the first post. Still, general concept don't have a problem.


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    #33
    Sizzler
    Registered Users Posts: 5,430 ✭✭✭Sizzler


    The mayor of Limerick is of the same mind (without the pay off!)

    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/limerick-mayor-calls-for-deportations-of-unemployed-immigrants-433866.html
    wrote:
    The Mayor of Limerick has provoked outrage by calling for unemployed EU nationals to be deported.

    Councillor Kevin Kiely says anyone living here who "can't afford to pay for themselves" should be sent home after three months.

    Mayor Kiely is denying accusations that his comments amount to racism, but they have sparked calls for his resignation with local Labour MEP Alan Kelly slamming them as "outrageous".


    Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/limerick-mayor-calls-for-deportations-of-unemployed-immigrants-433866.html#ixzz0WYmaAgP5


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    #34
    SLUSK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭SLUSK


    Sizzler wrote: »
    The mayor of Limerick is of the same mind (without the pay off!)

    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/limerick-mayor-calls-for-deportations-of-unemployed-immigrants-433866.html
    If people pay their taxes they are entitled to social welfare even if they happen to be from Africa.

    If immigrants should not be entitled to social welfare then they should not have to pay taxes either.


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    #35
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Stupid idea. If someone is legally entitled to be in your country, you should not pay them to leave. Where's the warm welcome in that? This is something the likes of the BNP would use, and Fine Gael actually suggested bringing this in.

    My tax will not be used to pay people to leave this country. If someone is legally entitled to be here, they can stay. If someone is illegally here, then it won't apply to them and they will be removed eitherway in due course.

    There are a lot of recently unemployed immigrents who would like to go home, but are embarressed to return as 'failures' with nothing to show for their time here. A cash payment might ease that a bit.

    More of a 'thanks for your help when we needed you' rather than a 'take this now and fcuk off'.


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    #36
    herya
    Registered Users Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭herya


    dvpower wrote: »
    There are a lot of recently unemployed immigrents who would like to go home, but are embarressed to return as 'failures' with nothing to show for their time here. A cash payment might ease that a bit.

    More of a 'thanks for your help when we needed you' rather than a 'take this now and fcuk off'.

    Makes sense actually, with regard to people who have worked in Ireland and contributed through taxes.


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    #37
    dattley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20 ✭dattley


    Memnoch wrote: »
    It's wrong to discriminate against someone because of the colour of their skin. Discriminating against someone because they are "brown," or "yellow," is wrong and racist. But Discriminating against someone because they are "indian," or "chinese," is just sensible immigration policy and necessitated by practicality.

    You cannot come here because you're "brown," is discrimination.
    You cannot come here because you're "indian/pakistani," is not discrimination.

    Yes, it absolutely is discrimination. While you are not discriminating on grounds of colour, you are openly discriminating on grounds of nationality. Whether this is a justifiable form of discrimination is a different matter entirely (I don't believe it justifiable myself), but the question of whether or not it is a form of discrimination is answered very cleary by the "because you're indian/pakistani" portion of your statement.


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    #38
    bill_ashmount
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭bill_ashmount


    dattley wrote: »
    Yes, it absolutely is discrimination. While you are not discriminating on grounds of colour, you are openly discriminating on grounds of nationality. Whether this is a justifiable form of discrimination is a different matter entirely (I don't believe it justifiable myself), but the question of whether or not it is a form of discrimination is answered very cleary by the "because you're indian/pakistani" portion of your statement.

    Every single country in the world does this, every single country.
    You don't want Ireland to do it? :eek:


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    #39
    dattley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20 ✭dattley


    bill_ashmount wrote: »
    Every single country in the world does this, every single country.
    You don't want Ireland to do it? :eek:

    Whether or not I want Ireland to do "it" would not change the fact that it is discriminatory.

    In any case, I am not familiar with a single example of a country which says "You cannot come here because you're indian/pakistani", which is the statement I referred to as discriminatory. You may be talking about a different subject entirely. That's not really my concern.


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    #40
    bill_ashmount
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭bill_ashmount


    dattley wrote: »
    Whether or not I want Ireland to do "it" would not change the fact that it is discriminatory.

    In any case, I am not familiar with a single example of a country which says "You cannot come here because you're indian/pakistani", which is the statement I referred to as discriminatory. You may be talking about a different subject entirely. That's not really my concern.

    It's called border control, India and Pakistan use it as well..


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    #41
    dattley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20 ✭dattley


    bill_ashmount wrote: »
    It's called border control, India and Pakistan use it as well..

    Since we're evidently not in a reading mood, I'll briefly stoop:

    I seriously doubt that Pakistan has a "no Pakistanis" border policy.


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    #42
    bill_ashmount
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭bill_ashmount


    dattley wrote: »
    Since we're evidently not in a reading mood, I'll briefly stoop:

    I seriously doubt that Pakistan has a "no Pakistanis" border policy.

    Meh, you can't even understand your own sentences, I give up.


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    #43
    OldJay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 943 ✭✭✭OldJay


    bill_ashmount wrote: »
    Every single country in the world does this, every single country
    No they most certainly do not.
    Setting criteria for migrants based on skills, wealth and qualifications is NOT the same as setting criteria based on race or colour of their skin.
    What you claim is absolute bunkum.


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    #44
    dattley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20 ✭dattley


    bill_ashmount wrote: »
    Meh, you can't even understand your own sentences, I give up.

    You're not reading what I posted.

    Somebody above said that saying "You cannot come here because you're Indian/Pakistani" is not discrimination.

    I said that it is.

    Which sentence do you believe i'm struggling with?


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    #45
    allimac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 314 ✭✭allimac


    Fair play to Kevin Keily the Mayor of Limerickfor having the balls to say what most of us are thinking.Hopefully his words will encourage more politicians to speak out and maybe take action.


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    #46
    Memnoch
    Registered Users Posts: 4,276 ✭✭✭Memnoch


    dattley wrote: »
    Yes, it absolutely is discrimination. While you are not discriminating on grounds of colour, you are openly discriminating on grounds of nationality. Whether this is a justifiable form of discrimination is a different matter entirely (I don't believe it justifiable myself), but the question of whether or not it is a form of discrimination is answered very cleary by the "because you're indian/pakistani" portion of your statement.

    I was being sarcastic....


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    #47
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    SLUSK wrote: »
    If people pay their taxes they are entitled to social welfare even if they happen to be from Africa.

    If immigrants should not be entitled to social welfare then they should not have to pay taxes either.

    LOL

    If an immigrant is working in Ireland for two years, they are entitled to full dole payments. Lets say they earned 25,000 euro per annum, that around 1,500 paid in PRSI over two years. Ergo, after seven or eight weeks of dole payments they become a burden on the state. When a non Irish national becomes unemployed they should be refunded their PRSI contributions and no more.


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    #48
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    djpbarry wrote: »
    The average immigrant came here with more qualifications than the average Irish person, especially non-EU immigrants. ‘Motivating’ them to leave doesn’t seem like a terribly well-thought-out solution to our current problems.

    I never said deport skilled non EU immigrants.

    I said.....
    PaulieD wrote: »
    -Deport failed asylum seekers.
    -Deport those on dodgy language school visas.
    -Deport unskilled non EU nationals.
    -Put a case to Brussels so we can introduce a work permit scheme for accession states nationals.


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    #49
    w123
    Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭w123


    Is this the Taxi drivers forum?


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    #50
    The Saint
    Registered Users Posts: 1,932 ✭✭✭The Saint


    PaulieD wrote: »
    When a non Irish national becomes unemployed they should be refunded their PRSI contributions and no more.
    Best of luck defending that in front of the European Court of Justice. All EU citizens are legally entitled to the same benifits as Irish people are.


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    #51
    Kev_ps3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,604 ✭✭✭Kev_ps3


    What a waste of tax-players money.. Should kick em out with nothing:pac:


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    #52
    c montgomery
    Registered Users Posts: 2,122 ✭✭✭c montgomery


    Ireland would do well to offer a deal like this to any immigrants in ireland currently on the dole.
    Easch person on the dole costs the taxpayer 10,000 a year. Some more as they have kids at home who recieve childrens allowance.
    If the government gave these immigrants 10,000 euro to return home but in doing so relinquish their entitlement to any future dole payments in ireland we would save money every year from next year. The people returning home would have a nice sum on money on their return home, there would be less people looking for the few jobs that are left here and the government would save money in the long run.

    Its not a racist idea, its an idea that might benefit both sides. I bet alot of eastern europeans would jump at the chance of 10,000 cash in return for going home.

    Anyone agree??


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    #53
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    The Saint wrote: »
    Best of luck defending that in front of the European Court of Justice. All EU citizens are legally entitled to the same benifits as Irish people are.

    Tell that to the Danes. If you become a burden on the state, you go home. And quite rightfully so.


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    #54
    Dannyboy83
    Registered Users Posts: 4,236 ✭✭✭Dannyboy83


    I thought all this silly talk would have died down when we started exporting our people again. We had a decade long hiatus from a centuries old tradition.

    The latest estimates I heard was that we'll lose 60,000 people to emigration between now and 2011, mostly Irish. And that's optimistic.

    I wonder how other nations see us.


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    #55
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    Dannyboy83 wrote: »
    The latest estimates I heard was that we'll lose 60,000 people to emigration between now and 2011, mostly Irish. And that's optimistic.

    Over 60,000 foreigners were issued with PPS numbers from Jan 09-August 09. Why the hell are we importing people just to export our own? It makes no sense.


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    #56
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    AcePuppetMaster wrote: »
    Hate modding the mods but dude, that statement could almost be considered racist by some.

    He's not a moderator of Politics, only the Boxing forum. If he says anything overtly racist he'll be dealt with in the same way anyone else is.


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    #57
    Dannyboy83
    Registered Users Posts: 4,236 ✭✭✭Dannyboy83


    PaulieD wrote: »
    Over 60,000 foreigners were issued with PPS numbers from Jan 09-August 09. Why the hell are we importing people just to export our own? It makes no sense.

    Who else would they have got to rent all the new properties?
    Somebody had to pay the mortgages for the greedy landlords.

    Why do you think Ireland and the UK were so loving and caring?
    Because we were the two countries with the property bubbles.
    Later Spain got in on the act too.

    My GF is Lithuanian, if they decided she had to leave, I'd leave with her. And shes not getting a penny from this farcical government anyway. She worked solidly for 3 years until she lost her job. Once her Jobseekers benefit was gone, that was it.





    BTW, I don't necessarily disagree with your points below.
    -Deport failed asylum seekers.
    -Deport those on dodgy language school visas.
    -Deport unskilled non EU nationals.
    -Put a case to Brussels so we can introduce a work permit scheme for accession states nationals.


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    #58
    irish_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭irish_bob


    SLUSK wrote: »
    If people pay their taxes they are entitled to social welfare even if they happen to be from Africa.

    If immigrants should not be entitled to social welfare then they should not have to pay taxes either.

    most but not all immigrants would not have been earning enough to be in the tax net so they would have given nothing to the state , add to the fact that the majority of eastern europeans sent most of thier wages home and lived ten to a 2 bed flat , they contributed little to the exchequer , the country owes them very little , this is not the case for all immigrants but a sizeable number


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    #59
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    PaulieD wrote: »
    I never said deport skilled non EU immigrants.
    No you didn’t, you said we should just deport the unskilled variety. So if a hardworking ‘unskilled’ non-EU citizen happens to lose their job, they get kicked out, but a layabout with a degree can stay as long as they like? Flawless logic.
    PaulieD wrote: »
    Tell that to the Danes.
    The Danes discriminate against EU citizens? Interesting.
    PaulieD wrote: »
    Over 60,000 foreigners were issued with PPS numbers from Jan 09-August 09. Why the hell are we importing people just to export our own? It makes no sense.
    I’m emigrating next year. It may surprise you to learn that I’m acting of my own free will, rather than being ‘exported’ by the state.


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    #60
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    c montgomery wrote: »
    If the government gave these immigrants 10,000 euro to return home but in doing so relinquish their entitlement to any future dole payments in ireland we would save money every year from next year.
    Surely that depends on who takes up the offer (and of course, how many)?


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    #61
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    irish_bob wrote: »
    most but not all immigrants would not have been earning enough to be in the tax net so they would have given nothing to the state , add to the fact that the majority of eastern europeans sent most of thier wages home and lived ten to a 2 bed flat , they contributed little to the exchequer , the country owes them very little...
    Don't forget about the free prams, free phones and discount cars. I think this thread has crossed my Daily Mail threshold.


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