Denmark paying immigrants to go home

opo · 22-11-2009 5:03pm

oscarBravo wrote: »

opo, if you have nothing to contribute to the discussion, don't post.

Please see post #240.

I am more than happy to contribute and engage with those who reciprocate.

oscarBravo · 22-11-2009 6:07pm

opo wrote: »

Please see post #240.

I am more than happy to contribute and engage with those who reciprocate.

The sum total of your contributions to this thread tell me otherwise. Post #240 is little more than a thinly-disguised attack on another poster. Discuss the topic, or don't post - and don't discuss a moderator instruction on-thread again.

walrusgumble · 23-11-2009 12:17am

O'Morris wrote: »

That might say a lot about what a government is prepared to do to stay in power but you still have to ask the question of what it says about multiculturalism itself when a government is prepared a spend a large amount of money to see less of it.

Danish governments have being fairly consistent (ie the stance of sending them home / or not wanting them in the country) to their attitudes towards non eu citizens and implementation of EU directives such as Directive 2004/38EC, the famous Chen case, and like Ireland & UK opting out of a number of EU based laws in relation to removement, particularily in relation to third country nationals. So this is no surprise at all. What Danish society thinks, of course is a completely different situation, therefore, please do not interpret this as a post saying Danish people themselves are against multiculturalism etc....

oscarBravo · 23-11-2009 1:25am

walrusgumble wrote: »

What Danish society thinks, of course is a completely different situation...

I know of at least one Dane who deeply decries what she openly describes as the racists (Dansk Folkeparti) who support the government.

djpbarry · 23-11-2009 9:56am

oscarBravo wrote: »

I know of at least one Dane who deeply decries what she openly describes as the racists (Dansk Folkeparti) who support the government.

She’s probably just being politically correct; in securing 13.8% of the vote in the last parliamentary election, The Danish People’s Party obviously represents the Danish ‘silent majority’.

AlekSmart · 23-11-2009 9:08pm

in securing 13.8% of the vote in the last parliamentary election, The Danish People’s Party obviously represents the Danish ‘silent majority’.

As a matter of only the remotest interest...does Denmark use the PR system of voting

?

oscarBravo · 23-11-2009 9:25pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

As a matter of only the remotest interest...does Denmark use the PR system of voting ?

They use a PR system, but they don't use our PR system:

Proportional representation system according to a modified version of the St. Laguë method and Hare quota and using the method of greatest remainders. Each elector can cast either a "personal vote" for one of the candidates or a vote for one of the party lists. They can vote for any of the candidates or parties of their constituency, not being limited to those of their nomination district.

http://www.ipu.org/parline/reports/2087_B.htm

PaulieD · 24-11-2009 2:05am

djpbarry wrote: »

She’s probably just being politically correct; in securing 13.8% of the vote in the last parliamentary election, The Danish People’s Party obviously represents the Danish ‘silent majority’.

Speaking of silent majorities.......

THE VAST majority (72 per cent) of people want to see a reduction in the number of non-Irish immigrants living here, according to an Irish Times /Behaviour Attitudes opinion poll.
Overall, a total of 43 per cent say they would like to see some, but not all, immigrants leave the State, while 29 per cent would like to see most immigrants leave. In contrast, just over a quarter (26 per cent) would like to see the number of immigrants remain as it is.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/1124/1224259339934.html

One in ten of those interviewed, were immigrants themselves. Thus, the figure is probably higher.

K-9 · 24-11-2009 2:13am

PaulieD wrote: »

Speaking of silent majorities.......

THE VAST majority (72 per cent) of people want to see a reduction in the number of non-Irish immigrants living here, according to an Irish Times /Behaviour Attitudes opinion poll.
Overall, a total of 43 per cent say they would like to see some, but not all, immigrants leave the State, while 29 per cent would like to see most immigrants leave. In contrast, just over a quarter (26 per cent) would like to see the number of immigrants remain as it is.

http://www.politics.ie/elections/119084-poll-72-want-reduction-immigrant-numbers.html

One in ten of those interviewed, were immigrants themselves. Thus, the figure is probably higher.

Yep, 72% would like to see some or most immigrants leave. I'm not surprised.

Some are leaving. Is that good enough?

PS. Good to see FT posting again.

PaulieD · 24-11-2009 2:15am

K-9 wrote: »

Some are leaving. Is that good enough?

Evidently not.

K-9 · 24-11-2009 2:28am

PaulieD wrote: »

Evidently not.

Because of an opinion poll?

Sure 40% of SW is immigrants as you have linked yourself. What chance have immigrants if gullible people believe anything they read or link to?. Hell, letters to the Business Post are being quoted as evidence.

What chance have they?

PaulieD · 24-11-2009 3:01am

K-9 wrote: »

Yep, 72% would like to see some or most immigrants leave. I'm not surprised.

K-9 wrote: »

What chance have immigrants if gullible people believe anything they read or link to?. Hell, letters to the Business Post are being quoted as evidence.

I am confused here, K-9, what exactly are you saying?

K-9 wrote: »

What chance have they?

And again.

K-9 · 24-11-2009 8:34am

PaulieD wrote: »

I am confused here, K-9, what exactly are you saying?

And again.

Because some people swallow any garbage they read about immigrants.

djpbarry · 24-11-2009 9:24am

...81 per cent of those aged 18 to 24 would like to see the number of immigrants fall...

...40 per cent of those in the 18-24 age group say they are likely to emigrate...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/1124/1224259339934.html

At least 21% of 18-24 year-olds are hypocrites.

O'Morris · 24-11-2009 10:10am

K-9 wrote:

Yep, 72% would like to see some or most immigrants leave. I'm not surprised.

I think it's far more surprising that a least a quarter of the population don't want to see some or most immigrants leave. What possible reason could those people have for believing that a fall in the number of foreign jobseekers and welfare recipients in the country wouldn't make things easier for us?

K-9 wrote:

Some are leaving. Is that good enough?

It might be good enough if it wasn't matched by an influx of tens of thousands of new arrivals.

djpbarry · 24-11-2009 11:07am

O'Morris wrote: »

I think it's far more surprising that a least a quarter of the population don't want to see some or most immigrants leave. What possible reason could those people have for believing that a fall in the number of foreign jobseekers and welfare recipients in the country wouldn't make things easier for us?

Do false dichotomies much?

O'Morris wrote: »

It might be good enough if it wasn't matched by an influx of tens of thousands of new arrivals.

It isn't being matched.

O'Morris · 24-11-2009 11:46am

djpbarry wrote:

Do false dichotomies much?

It's a simple question. As someone who would probably be included in that 26% figure, what reason do you have for not wanting to see fewer foreign job-seekers and welfare recipients here?

djpbarry wrote:

It isn't being matched.

I think it's fair to say that if we have large numbers of people leaving the country that we also have large numbers entering the country. Do you have the latest figures for the numbers of foreign nationals leaving the country compared with the number of people entering it?

marco_polo · 24-11-2009 12:18pm

O'Morris wrote: »

It's a simple question. As someone who would probably be included in that 26% figure, what reason do you have for not wanting to see fewer foreign job-seekers and welfare recipients here?

I think it's fair to say that if we have large numbers of people leaving the country that we also have large numbers entering the country. Do you have the latest figures for the numbers of foreign nationals leaving the country compared with the number of people entering it?

That latest CSO figures showing a net emigration of 7800 for the year ending April 2009.

Taking immigration from newer accession states(EU12) as an example it is down from down from peaks of 50,000 per year in 2006 and 2007 to 13,500 last year. And emmigration in this group increased to 30,100 to April 2009.

Interestingly the number of Irish returning and leaving exactly balances out (18,400 each).

http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/population/current/popmig.pdf

djpbarry · 24-11-2009 3:22pm

O'Morris wrote: »

As someone who would probably be included in that 26% figure, what reason do you have for not wanting to see fewer foreign job-seekers and welfare recipients here?

You’re implying that a person must hold one of two positions:

They want to see a reduction in the number of immigrants in the country (I’m curious to know what ‘reduction’ translates into)
They don’t want to see a reduction in the number of foreign job-seekers or welfare recipients

It’s a logical fallacy.

O'Morris wrote: »

I think it's fair to say that if we have large numbers of people leaving the country that we also have large numbers entering the country.

The point is the number leaving exceeds the number arriving.

PaulieD · 24-11-2009 3:24pm

djpbarry wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/1124/1224259339934.html

At least 21% of 18-24 year-olds are hypocrites.

Or they are being forced out of their native land by our insane immigration policies.

Lets take a hypothetical situation. Jimmy has been displaced from his job by foreign workers. Jimmy cannot find work, in his field, due to mass immigration. Jimmy resents that. Jimmy has a choice, rot away on the dole in Ireland, or leave. Is Jimmy a hypocrite if he leaves. I dont think so.

PaulieD · 24-11-2009 3:25pm

djpbarry wrote: »

The point is the number leaving exceeds the number arriving.

Not enough are leaving. We need 200,000 to leave. Yesterday.

herya · 24-11-2009 3:38pm

PaulieD wrote: »

Lets take a hypothetical situation. Jimmy has been displaced from his job by foreign workers. Jimmy cannot find work, in his field, due to mass immigration. Jimmy resents that. Jimmy has a choice, rot away on the dole in Ireland, or leave. Is Jimmy a hypocrite if he leaves. I dont think so.

He is, because he's still going to do exactly what he opposes where others are concerned. Forced or not forced.

PaulieD wrote: »

Not enough are leaving. We need 200,000 to leave. Yesterday.

Fired from their jobs, you mean? I'm sure it would work miracles for retail and renting markets overnight too.

PaulieD · 24-11-2009 3:40pm

herya wrote: »

Fired from their jobs, you mean? I'm sure it would work miracles for retail and renting markets overnight too.

The 60,000 foreign nationals on JSA, the illegals and the failed asylum seekers.

djpbarry · 24-11-2009 3:59pm

PaulieD wrote: »

Lets take a hypothetical situation. Jimmy has been displaced from his job by foreign workers. Jimmy cannot find work, in his field, due to mass immigration. Jimmy resents that. Jimmy has a choice, rot away on the dole in Ireland, or leave. Is Jimmy a hypocrite if he leaves.

If he continues to moan about the immigrants working in Ireland while he works as an immigrant elsewhere, then he most certainly is a hypocrite, yes.

PaulieD wrote: »

Not enough are leaving. We need 200,000 to leave. Yesterday.

That's a nice round number - how did you arrive at that figure?

PaulieD wrote: »

The 60,000 foreign nationals on JSA, the illegals and the failed asylum seekers.

Actually, the number of unemployed non-Irish nationals is just under 51,000, but anyway...

There are 140,000 illegal immigrants and failed asylum seekers in this country? Really?

johnathan woss · 24-11-2009 4:00pm

herya wrote: »

Originally Posted by PaulieD
Lets take a hypothetical situation. Jimmy has been displaced from his job by foreign workers. Jimmy cannot find work, in his field, due to mass immigration. Jimmy resents that. Jimmy has a choice, rot away on the dole in Ireland, or leave. Is Jimmy a hypocrite if he leaves. I dont think so.

He is, because he's still going to do exactly what he opposes where others are concerned. Forced or not forced.

No he is certainly not a hypocrite! How can you even suggest he is a hypocrite if he simply HAS to emigrate to find work?
What else do you suggest he do? The mind boggles.

herya · 24-11-2009 4:01pm

johnathan woss wrote: »

No he is certainly not a hypocrite! How can you even suggest he is a hypocrite if he simply HAS to emigrate to find work?
What else do you suggest he do? The mind boggles.

And all the immigrants came here for the weather? I guess loads HAD to too.

johnathan woss · 24-11-2009 4:05pm

herya wrote: »

And all the immigrants came here for the weather? I guess loads HAD to too.

Ha! I knew you (or djpbarry) would come back with that.
Caught hook, line and sinker.

The immigrants aren't here because immigrants from another country entered THEIR country. And they aren't here willing to accept LOWER wages than people are earning in their own country.

TOTALLY different scenario.

herya · 24-11-2009 4:09pm

johnathan woss wrote: »

Ha! I knew you (or djpbarry) would come back with that.
Caught hook, line and sinker.

The immigrants aren't here because immigrants from another country entered THEIR country. And they aren't here willing to accept LOWER wages than people are earning in their own country.

TOTALLY different scenario.

Ever heard about Ukrainian and even Chinese builders in Poland?

_Nuno_ · 24-11-2009 4:13pm

johnathan woss wrote: »

Ha! I knew you (or djpbarry) would come back with that.
Caught hook, line and sinker.

The immigrants aren't here because immigrants from another country entered THEIR country. And they aren't here willing to accept LOWER wages than people are earning in their own country.

TOTALLY different scenario.

And the Irish leaving the country are not leaving because of immigrants either, although I guess immigrants are a very nice/clean and easy scapegoat. They are leaving because they don't have good enough skills and/or qualifications to put them in a advantageous position in the job market.

I have no trouble finding a job here or in my homeland, and I am here because the people that brought me here could not find people with my skills available in Ireland when they needed. It may not be convenient to some to keep me here in the current economic climate, but unfortunately to you I am not cattle that you can dispose of when not needed.

Tough, isn't it?

PaulieD · 24-11-2009 4:17pm

herya wrote: »

Ever heard about Ukrainian and even Chinese builders in Poland?

Would that be a cause or effect of mass emigration from Poland?:rolleyes:

Denmark paying immigrants to go home

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