Anyone doing GEM in UL?

liberal

My 2 cents if I may,

The goal of GEM is to teach Medicine a diverse group of people that have made an adult decision to pursue a career as a doctor. Selection is based on previous academic performance in wide range of areas. Assesment of candidate is basede on their ability to reason in the social and life sciences, to deal with complex unseen information and to perform mentally under pressure. To me this seems fairer and wiser than basing selection on a condidates ability to study, memorise and level of discipline.

From what I can see, undergraduate medicine has a lot of intelligent, self-driving and will-succeed-at-anything people, but it also has alot of dopes with no social skills or any idea of life outside of med. Giving a new crop of people a swing off the bat can only be a good thing, if PBL turns out be be a crock of ****e I'll go off and live with the Himalyan Mountain People like I've always wanted to

Keane and Dunne will score

liberal

MicraBoy wrote: »

55 in S3 surely?

oh sorry

its 55 s2 and then 55 in s1 or s3 and then 50 in the remaining one

tallaght01

ORLY? wrote: »

Small paper? The entire graduating class of over 10 years are looked at, it's no smaller than the one you linked. The methodologies for both papers are very similar, but one makes conclusions on the effectiveness of PBL in a particular college the other tries to make conclusions about the entire educational system in the UK with no direct mention of PBL. They're both interesting and both open to criticism, I'd be scpetical about using either to draw conclusions about PBL as a whole, but you are convinced that the Nottingham one makes a case against PBL - that's just a leap beyond what's actually there.

Your stance and opinion are obvious, no harm there, but when it clouds your ability to look objectively at studies it isn't helpful and leads away from proper scientific appraisal of data and leads to more reliance on feelings.

.

Yea, but it's ONE medical school, in fairness, with all the problems that entails in taking anything from it.

The Trent study, for what it's worth, had no "sample size" of medical students. It surveyed doctors attitudes to graduates in a deanery.

They're not comparable.

But the point stands, that we have no decent evidence so far that this new system workers.

That really has to be the bottom line here, and it forces some of us to make our decisions based on experience and anecdote.

locum-motion

Pleo wrote: »

Just to get people to respond to this thread, because I am also interested in this topic very much. I have no experience whatsoever of any GEM programs in Ireland.

I was waiting with interest to see if you'd justify your post.
You're now admitting to posting a controversial post just to get a reaction.
IMO, that's trolling, and it gets you a warning from me. Do not do it in this forum again.

Lassiecomehome

tallaght01 wrote: »

They've made the intern year 2 years long

Just to clear this up, the Intern year has not been made 2 years long. The first 2 years out of medical school have been linked. FY1 (Foundation Year 1) is analagous to Intern year and FY2 to house officer. The two years are linked so you know where you will be working for 2 years from graduation forward e.g. in what speciality. You are fully registered after the FY1 year as is an Irish trained doctor following their Intern year.

tallaght01

Lassiecomehome wrote: »

Just to clear this up, the Intern year has not been made 2 years long. The first 2 years out of medical school have been linked. FY1 (Foundation Year 1) is analagous to Intern year and FY2 to house officer. The two years are linked so you know where you will be working for 2 years from graduation forward e.g. in what speciality. You are fully registered after the FY1 year as is an Irish trained doctor following their Intern year.

But you're not fully registered in the UK until you've completed both years, as far as I remember.

Certainly when we had FY2s we were treating them as interns. though that may not have been the same in general medicine and gen surgery. We had FY1s and FYs in paeds doing the same job.

But I don't know what the official line on that was supposed to be.

Lassiecomehome

tallaght01 wrote: »

But you're not fully registered in the UK until you've completed both years, as far as I remember.

You remember wrong. You have full registration with the GMC after completing FY1

tallagh01 wrote:

Certainly when we had FY2s we were treating them as interns. though that may not have been the same in general medicine and gen surgery. We had FY1s and FYs in paeds doing the same job.

FY1s don't work in specialities like paeds, obs & gynae, ICU, A&E, psychiatry to name but a few. Those specialities are restricted to FY2s as it is thought (rightly) that you should have some more experience as a doctor before you undertake responsibility in them. FY1 you study a minimum 4 months of general medicine and general surgery. The remaining 4 months are spent doing further general medicine or surgery depending on your rotation e.g. you might have 4 months in a geriatric unit or rheumatology hospital. My particular rotation involves 6 months of both general medicine and surgery. If you did work with FYs in paeds it is likely they were FY2s who hadn't done paediatrics in 3 years and probably were like interns in your eyes. I am doing 4 months in neurosurgery as an FY2, although I will be a fully registered qualified doctor it is likely I will be doing much the same tasks on such a rotation as an FY1 and not the actual neurosurgery

tallaght01

Lassiecomehome wrote: »

You remember wrong. You have full registration with the GMC after completing FY1



FY1s don't work in specialities like paeds, obs & gynae, ICU, A&E, psychiatry to name but a few. Those specialities are restricted to FY2s as it is thought (rightly) that you should have some more experience as a doctor before you undertake responsibility in them. FY1 you study a minimum 4 months of general medicine and general surgery. The remaining 4 months are spent doing further general medicine or surgery depending on your rotation e.g. you might have 4 months in a geriatric unit or rheumatology hospital. My particular rotation involves 6 months of both general medicine and surgery. If you did work with FYs in paeds it is likely they were FY2s who hadn't done paediatrics in 3 years and probably were like interns in your eyes. I am doing 4 months in neurosurgery as an FY2, although I will be a fully registered qualified doctor it is likely I will be doing much the same tasks on such a rotation as an FY1 and not the actual neurosurgery

We always had FY1s/PRHOs in paeds and paeds surgery. Anaesthetics and A+E had them too. So did psych, I think. I don't know if they kept them, as I left the UK after about one year of that system.

And like I said, we put them on the same roster with FY2. But that may be because we, along with about 90% of the docs in the UK, had no clue what an FY was, or an ST1 etc.

I still don't to be honest. I just can't get my head around MMC and the current system. And I don't know who it benefits.