"Irish franchise for Premier League?" [Mod Note: See Post #1]

apoch632

Mod Note:
If anyone turns this into an LOI v Barstoolers debate along with abuse to match there will be bans handed out fairly sharpish.



Was reading through the annual Celtic and Rangers to the Premiership stories

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/eng_prem/8353937.stm

Noticed this in there.

"The Bolton chairman is also believed to be open to inviting an Irish franchise into the league in the future. "

What would people make of this hypothetical Irish team?

BraziliaNZ

well people have no interest in going to LOI games, so I think it would be a great idea. We'd probably have an academy, great facilities for training, could keep our best players in Ireland etc.
It will never happen though. Plus where would they play? A whole new stadium would need to be built for Dublin FC.

Mitch Connor

Not going to happen, best chance of it happening was when Wimbledon/MK Dons looked into relocating to Ireland. It was shot down then, and it would be shot down now.

Mitch Connor

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

well people have no interest in going to LOI games, so I think it would be a great idea. We'd probably have an academy, great facilities for training, could keep our best players in Ireland etc.
It will never happen though. Plus where would they play? A whole new stadium would need to be built for Dublin FC.

Not that I think it would happen, but could they not play at Aviva Stadium? Would that go against PP? I suppose it would. Would be an excellent way of the FAI/RFU getting their cash back relatively quickly though.

the extra 20+ (maybe 30 or more) games being played there a year wold have the locals going mad, and would be tough to organise with rugby games too.

CHD

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

well people have no interest in going to LOI games, so I think it would be a great idea. We'd probably have an academy, great facilities for training, could keep our best players in Ireland etc.
It will never happen though. Plus where would they play? A whole new stadium would need to be built for Dublin FC.

Lansdowne could be the stadium easily. They all would make $$$ and thats what its all about.

JPA

That guy is cuckoo.

godtabh

Its all so American. New franchise my bolloix.

In saying that I do like the idea of being able to walk down to Landsowne Road and catch a mid week carling cup game against Exeter to watch the youth team get their arse handed to them

invincibleirish

I'd support a PL Irish franchise being established if only for the pained reactions we will see from the LoIers on here.

I'd say its inevitable the PL will restructure itself at some stage, not sustainable to have the likes of Hull, Derby, Boro & Burnley mortgage their futures in order to keep up in the PL rat race. The Game 39 & PL 2 proposals all hint at a future where franchises are established to replace bankrupt small town PL clubs, though i suspect if this were to be the case it would be Arab and Far east franchises that would be established rather then Irish ones.

Perhaps Man Citys run out in Abu Dhabi is a taster for things to come, Abu Dhabi Bluemoon FC anyone?.

Mitch Connor

Wonder if it would even be financially viable.

They would get full houses at the games vs Liverpool, United, Arsenal and Chelsea, probably City, Villa, Spurs and Everton too. Would games against Wigan and Hull get the crowds coming too?

They would also need actual fans (to buy merchandise etc) but for the big games I reckon it would just be a crap load of fans from other sides coming to either see the side they support, or in the hope the side they hate gets beaten. Either way, I don't think a Dublin FC would have enough of its own fans. Over time that would probably build - younger kids may support them over the other English sides cause they are on the doorstep, but I'm not even sure that would be enough.

Also, Franchise football.... get stuffed.

redout

So what happens in the likely scenario they get relegated in their first season ?

iregk

invincibleirish wrote: »

I'd support a PL Irish franchise being established if only for the pained reactions we will see from the LoIers on here.

Yeah your a real treasure to football aren't you, a real hardcore fan. So you'd support a nothing franchise team with no history or culture simply because it would get a reaction out of a few LOI fans.

I feel embarrassed for you seriously.

super_furry

This crap again?

gimmick

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Would games against Wigan and Hull get the crowds coming too?

redout wrote: »

So what happens in the likely scenario they get relegated in their first season ?

As most irish football fans do not know what it is like to get their hands dirty and actually make the effort to go to a game every week both the above scenarios wouild mean playing to an empty stadium as the "standard" would not be waht they can get from their armchair/barstool.

But they would have the "facilities" they so dearly crave.

I say bring it on.

CHD

Seriously, why the LOI debate? Not worth it, been done to death. This won't happen Chill!!

Mitch Connor

gimmick wrote: »

As most irish football fans do not know what it is like to get their hands dirty and actually make the effort to go to a game every week both the above scenarios wouild mean playing to an empty stadium as the "standard" would not be waht they can get from their armchair/barstool.

But they would have the "facilities" they so dearly crave.

I say bring it on.

While playing to empty stadiums, they could be playing to sold out ones at the same time. Or technically half/two-thirds full.

I reckon they would sell a lot of season tickets on the back of games vs United, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal etc. If they got relegated they'd be f'd alright, but then I think the Bolton chairman said there'd be no relegation in his vision of footballs future so play on boys!

invincibleirish

iregk wrote: »

Yeah your a real treasure to football aren't you, a real hardcore fan. So you'd support a nothing franchise team with no history or culture simply because it would get a reaction out of a few LOI fans.

I feel embarrassed for you seriously.

Misconstrue much?

Iago

If anyone turns this into an LOI v Barstoolers debate along with abuse to match there will be bans handed out fairly sharpish.

flahavaj

Weren't there only 15,000 or something at Wigan/Fulham at the weekend? You'd do well to get that for Bolton Leprechauns FC against most clubs oitside the top 6 or seven teams in the Prem that have strong Irish support.

I'd actually like to see it happen just so I could laugh at how badly it'd fall on its arse.

gimmick

Well Gartside is not exactly the full bob in his visions anyway. He also wants the two tier premier division. Even his own fans are embarrassed of him.

super_furry

How embarrassing would it be for a Dublin United team to play in a stadium every second week where the majority of Irish supporters come to cheer on whichever English team they’re playing?

You’d have a handful of people switching their allegiances to the new franchise and the rest coming along to support Arsenal/Liverpool/Manchester/Chelsea/whoever.

_blank_

Here's what would happen.

Great fanfare and all and sundry would go to the games, initially.

But then the true irishism would happen. The majority of Irish People have no interest in supporting an Irish Club side, none.

So, there would be five or six games a season where you'd see decent crowds, depending on which "division" the Irish Franchise would be in. When Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal and Celtic visit and the Rangers game too.

Now, those teams would be, more than likely, be in the top division.

An Irish set-up would not, and could not, operate at a profit, or sustain a club.

Who would support them?

The EPL fans would remain loyal to their teams, judging by the comments in the various LoI threads (I couldn't just start supporting another team).

The LoI fans are already cringing at this suggestion, and would most certainly not abandon their current clubs in favour of a soul-less fake frachise club.

I have no doubt that "the big day out" brigade would jump on the bandwagon for a season or two, but once the glitz and glamour games are out of the way, and the likes of Hull, Stoke and Middlesborough are in town, crowds would be very, very low. "I'm not going to see that shíte".

Where would the games be played?

Landsdowne? In November and the Spring? Doubtful.

Croker? lol.

There's nowhere else, unless the new fans of Ireland FC take to one of the LoI stadia, in which case they are hypocrites.

Dublin has already seen one failed franchise club (Dublin City), and the other one attracts about an average of 300 per game (Sporting Fingal).

It wouldn't work here, so there's no chance of it even getting off the ground.

Irish people, in the main, don't do week-in week-out supporting of club football, going to games and getting involved with the club.

On the other hand, with the backing and brainwashing of Sky TV this could work. If it did work, I'd have nothing but contempt for the people who choose to "support" this Dublin United or whatever they'd be called.

Ffs people, there are twenty decent Irish Clubs playing football in this country already, we don't need or want any part of this.

An abomination of an idea, and one I hope gets the derision it deserves.

Anyway, wouldn't Celtic be the Irish Franchise?

Iago

I'm genuinely surprised whenever I see premier league stadiums empty. I wonder how much of it is down to choice of sports.

On any given saturday you might have Rugby League, Rugby Union as well as a premier league match and maybe it's down to that.

At one point I was close to moving to Reading for work, and the first thing on my list was a season ticket for the ground. You just can't beat live football to be honest.


edit: Didn't even include my main point!!

I really don't think this is a good idea and I don't think it would get enough support to make it sustainable. While it "could" be good from an economic point of view I think there are far too many issues to be overcome, not least of which is how you get a team at that level in the first place.

You'd almost need to start in the bottom division and work your way up, and I can't see enough money being generated at that level in order to provide the growth needed to keep the club moving forward. If there was enough interest to make something like that economically viable then Shels, Rovers, Bohs et al would be in the European Competitions group stages every year.

super_furry

Des wrote: »

Irish people, in the main, don't do week-in week-out supporting of club football, going to games and getting involved with the club.

I think this is the crucial point. Irish people, for the most part, don't know how to be football supporters - there's no mainstream fan culture here at all. It's fine watching games from the comfort of your armchair or enjoying one or maybe two nice weekend breaks a year to go see 'your' team play, but really that's as far as it goes.

I remain to be convinced that there is an appetite among the majority of the Irish public to support a professional football team, and all that would entail, week-in, week-out.

gimmick

Iago wrote: »

I'm genuinely surprised whenever I see premier league stadiums empty. I wonder how much of it is down to choice of sports.

The prices of games and the football on show for the most part would explain it.

Xavi6

It's just basically Sam Hammam/Wimbledon all over again and won't happen.

_blank_

super_furry wrote: »

I think this is the crucial point. Irish people, for the most part, don't know how to be football supporters - there's no mainstream fan culture here at all. It's fine watching games from the comfort of your armchair or enjoying one or maybe two nice weekend breaks a year to go see 'your' team play, but really that's as far as it goes.

I remain to be convinced that there is an appetite among the majority of the Irish public to support a professional football team, and all that would entail, week-in, week-out.

I really hope the small minority of posters who DO travel to England regularly aren't offended by this.

It's one hundred per cent true.

gimmick wrote: »

The prices of games and the football on show for the most part would explain it.

This.

Mitch Connor

flahavaj wrote: »

Weren't there only 15,000 or something at Wigan/Fulham at the weekend? You'd do well to get that for Bolton Leprechauns FC against most clubs oitside the top 6 or seven teams in the Prem that have strong Irish support.

I'd actually like to see it happen just so I could laugh at how badly it'd fall on its arse.

I would be interested to see what the season ticket situation would be though.

First off - the season tickets would be amongst the most expensive in the PL (Its Rip Off Ireland after all), so I reckon you could be looking at 600 per Adult ticket quite easily (in line with what United charge, who are not the most expensive) .

For the first couple of seasons, assuming they would be playing the likes of United/Liverpool etc in those seasons, I reckon you would sell those season tickets quite easily. So, I think it would be quite reasonable to assume that you'd sell more tickets, and at a higher price, than the likes of Wigan and Hull. That would put them on a better financial footing, possibly, than some of the competitors.

gosplan

Des wrote: »

But then the true irishism would happen. The majority of Irish People have no interest in supporting an Irish Club side, none.

Leinster and Munster do pretty well for the Magner's league. Why do you think a top level football team would be different?

_blank_

Also, ryanair would rape the any away supporters.

_blank_

gosplan wrote: »

Leinster and Munster do pretty well for the Magner's league.

That's a completely different sport

gosplan wrote: »

Why do you think a top level football team would be different?

because the vast majority of Irish people who like football already support a different team in this proposed league.

Why would they change allegiance?

Would you?

Walsh

Let them start at the very bottom of the English tiers, i'd give them 3 years before they folded. Torpedo Sporting Star bucks Supermacs Baile Atha Cliath Badgers FC.

gosplan

Des wrote: »

That's a completely different sport

Yes, but you speak of 'true Irishism' which surely is consistent regardless of what sport it's applied to.

Des wrote: »

because the vast majority of Irish people who like football already support a different team in this proposed league.

Why would they change allegiance?

Would you?

No but I'd defo go to a fair few games. Absolutely 100%. I'd imagine that you'd have to wait for kids to grow up to get the lifelong fans but that doesn't mean the stadiums would be empty.

Plus there's a lot of people with fleeting allegiances who would probably jump at this chance.

Mitch Connor

Des wrote: »

That's a completely different sport



because the vast majority of Irish people who like football already support a different team in this proposed league.

Why would they change allegiance?

Would you?

I reckon they'd sell enough season tickets, at a high enough price to get the finances steady enough, better than some current prem teams.

Over time, do you not think people new to the sport might support Dublin PLfC instead of the Big 4, or do you think people will always support the Big 4, in the main.

I do think they would have a lot of trouble creating their own fan base, and no simply be a home game away for the opposition in a lot of cases. If they marketed it right though, from the start, kids in free etc they could get something going. And while a United fan might buy a season ticket in order to get to those United games, he probably go to the Liverpool/Arsenal and City games - and would support Dublin PLfC in those games. I know that is not real support, and I am not trying to suggest otherwise, but over time that type of secondary support could form the foundation of proper support in the kids of these people.

Again, I don't think it will happen, not for a minute, just throwing the arguments up there.

Iago

gimmick wrote: »

The prices of games and the football on show for the most part would explain it.

Price is obviously a factor although most clubs seem to have decent range of prices that would be affordable I would have thought. Obviously it's all relative and certainly employment in some of the areas that aren't main cities is probably lower and lower paid than elsewhere so could be a key factor.

As for the football on show, even the worst teams in the premier league serve up interesting games. Alright it's not quite Barca v Madrid in terms of star quality or ability but they're far from Carlos Kickaballs at the same time.

I know Hull v Stoke isn't going to get you frothing at the mouth, but if a ticket was £20 and you got a Saturday afternoon with your mates/children/partner out of it then what harm?

Mitch Connor

gosplan wrote: »

Yes, but you speak of 'true Irishism' which surely is consistent regardless of what sport it's applied to.




No but I'd defo go to a fair few games. Absolutely 100%. I'd imagine that you'd have to wait for kids to grow up to get the lifelong fans but that doesn't mean the stadiums would be empty.

Plus there's a lot of people with fleeting allegiances who would probably jump at this chance.

I think you would get a good number of people buying season tickets and going to the big games - very easily. The next step would be getting those same people to go to the smaller games. I'd probably end up going to all home games if it ever happened. I'd get the season ticket to be sure of going to the big games, and I do very little else on a Saturday afternoon - may as well go to a game I have already paid for.

If they sold the majority of tickets as season tickets, I reckon they'd sell out, and get decent crowds at all games, no worse than the smaller prem clubs get week in week out.

shamblertine

I think they should scrap the league cup and create a new cup open to Irish, Scottish, Welsh and English teams.

GLaDOS

If it happened I'd be embarrassed to be an Irish football fan.

But it won't so it's not an issue.

invincibleirish

Unless this proposed Irish franchise was called something like Ireland FC then i think its clear it would only be a franchise for the greater Dublin area. I think the parochial nature of our gombeen nation would preclude the great and good from outside jackeen land wishing to follow a Dublin FC, Celtic or Liverpool need not worry just yet i'd say.

bullvine

It would never happen, the powers at be wouldnt allow it, I do think though if it did happen a lot of the Bar Stools fans would support it and this is where a lot of the fan base might come from. A lot of these fans are supporters of the Premier League and not just one team that plays in it, they'll watch any match thats playing.

Also, a lot of the kids out there who support LOI of Ireland teams like Bohs, also support United or Liverpool. So would it be unrealistic to think they might have 2 clubs, we are all fickle supporters after all.

5starpool

Des wrote: »

Also, ryanair would rape the any away supporters.

They already do this for the many thousands of fans that travel each weekend from Ireland, so they'd love the prospect of increasing the joy.

GLaDOS

bullvine wrote: »

Also, a lot of the kids out there who support LOI of Ireland teams like Bohs, also support United or Liverpool. So would it be unrealistic to think they might have 2 clubs, we are all fickle supporters after all.

I can guarantee 90% LOI fans would oppose this vehemently. The others would only be casual fans. Our league is in tatters and an Irish club taking money away from it to play in a different league? Not a chance.

shamblertine

ScienceNerd wrote: »

I can guarantee 90% LOI fans would oppose this vehemently. The others would only be casual fans. Our league is in tatters and an Irish club taking money away from it to play in a different league? Not a chance.

but since there are so few LOI fans I don't think their views are particularly relevant

shamblertine

5starpool wrote: »

They already do this for the many thousands of fans that travel each weekend from Ireland, so they'd love the prospect of increasing the joy.

What do they put a gun to peoples head and force them to fly ryanair? The truth is that even by increasing air fares during times of high demand their fares are still about half the price of aer lingus fares.

GLaDOS

shamblertine wrote: »

but since there are so few LOI fans I don't think their views are particularly relevant

Edit: Sorry, misunderstood

iregk

genuine question but does anyone actually know the average figures when it comes to irish people heading over to the epl at weekends? I'm talking in total not just for 1 club.

redout

iregk wrote: »

genuine question but does anyone actually know the average figures when it comes to irish people heading over to the epl at weekends? I'm talking in total not just for 1 club.

Must be thousands.

everdead.ie

In rugby aren't all the players contracted to there clubs ie brian o'driscoll to blackrock an ameteaur side and then the leinster pay him.

I could see in Ireland a future where we can't support so many professional teams so the fai turn the league amateaur and set up a Ireland fc where the players come from the amateaur clubs backed up by some foreign talent.


Although i don't see why on earth the premier or championship clubs would ever let Ireland fc into the top division straight away like celtic and rangers they'd all have to start off in the lowest division and work there way up.

PHB

Can't see it happening, but I believe it would be a good thing if it did. It would be a good thing for football in this country overall. But not in this sort of silly tier system, but in a general merging of the football leagues in Britain, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, and Ireland.

Put them all in one big thing, maybe the Irish league like a North-West regional league or something, then get people promoted the way up. Maybe somehow work out a way to ensure that the lower divisions don't have large additional travel costs which they can't afford.

I think we might get one or two teams in at the League One level, and allow them to work their way up. Eventually Dublin would have the population basis for one major Premiership Team, which would result hopefully ina proper youth setup, which would massively improve the chances of the irish national team, and also give lots more Irish kids a chance at going Pro.

All in all, it'd be great. Then again, can't see it happening.

stevoslice

To those who doubt irish peoples commitment to supporting club sides, i ask ya how many people do you think play junior soccer of a sunday plus go to training 2 times a week. Pretty much every town/village in the country has a junior soccer team/s with dedicated supporters travelling to most games. Add to this the underage teams and the people who organise the clubs.

if you think that irish people not capable of supporting club soccer, get real.

iregk

everdead.ie wrote: »

In rugby aren't all the players contracted to there clubs ie brian o'driscoll to blackrock an ameteaur side and then the leinster pay him.

No and the comparison with rugby here is a bit apples and oranges to be fair. Firstly we have 20 LOI teams playing at the moment. We have 4 rugby teams and one of those represents the north where we only have/had 1 football team.

So if all fans of LOI stopped supporting their clubs in the south (lets leave the north out of this for the moment) and started to support just 3 football clubs you'd see seriously higher attendances yet if rugby split again and went to 20 teams would each of those get the 20k that munster and leinster enjoy at present? No.

As far as the contracts are concerned everdead the irfu were very smart in this respect and they hold all player contracts so drico is contracted to the IRFU and not Leinster Rugby.

GLaDOS

thebhoy wrote: »

if you think that irish people not capable of supporting club soccer, get real.

Then why are LOI attendances so low? Nobody doubts that the Irish are mad about football, but for numerous reasons, people do not go to the highest level available matches in the country.