"Irish franchise for Premier League?" [Mod Note: See Post #1]

Bounty Hunter

Irish Franchise for the Premierleague .... Roy Keane's next job?

redout

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Then why are LOI attendances so low? Nobody doubts that the Irish are mad about football, but for numerous reasons, people do not go to the highest level available matches in the country.

Why would they go see amateurs when there are world class stars 30mins across the water ?

Serious question. Not looking for a rise.

noodler

Its as wrong as Celtic and Rangers switching countires for more money.

GLaDOS

redout wrote: »

Why would they go see amateurs when there are world class stars 30mins across the water ?

Serious question. Not looking for a rise.

Why would they support a Irish franchise when there are much better teams across the water?

loyatemu

I don't agree it would be an automatic failure. I think the Leinster example is relevant - 15 years ago "Leinster Rugby" didn't exist in its current form, relatively small crowds went to watch club rugby but large numbers of people still showed up for international games - pretty much the same situation you have today with domestic soccer.

Leinster have built a following and a brand and have become very successful. The main difference with soccer is that you already have a lot of supporters following English teams and a general antagonism between fans of the local scene and the big match\barstool brigade.

Smaller domestic leagues are dying financially (look at whats happening in the LOI and SPL this year), I think some form of consolidation is needed. Its probably more likely to be amalgamation of smaller leagues though, rather than the likes of the EPL taking on extra members. UEFA will eventually have to allow some loosening of national boundaries or else in a few years the big 5 leagues will be only ones still viable.

Iago

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Why would they support a Irish franchise when there are much better teams across the water?

because it's €25 for a ticket rather than €100+ per person to get over to a game..

because it takes a couple of hours rather than a full day or even a weekend..

because it's easier to get 5-10 mates to go to the game and have a pint with afterwards if it's in Ireland rather than the Uk...


lots of reasons really, regardless of how bad an idea it might be.

drkpower

This idea makes perfect sense.
Sport is about entertainment. People want top tier football in this country and they would support it if it arrived. Initially it would be for the novelty factor but slowly and surely the fanbase would become more loyal.

The issues are the stadium as there may be problems playing 20+ additional games at Lansdowwne, the security issues and the financial viability in the relatively early years, particularly if we start out in a PL2 against the likes of Preston and Coventry.

But in principle its a great idea.

GLaDOS

Iago wrote: »

because it's €25 for a ticket rather than €100+ per person to get over to a game..

because it takes a couple of hours rather than a full day or even a weekend..

because it's easier to get 5-10 mates to go to the game and have a pint with afterwards if it's in Ireland rather than the Uk...


lots of reasons really, regardless of how bad an idea it might be.

Which brings me back to my point about people not going to LOI games

Also, all of those things would till be a problem for away games

Raskolnikov

I don't know why people are so hostile to the idea. The LOI has become a farce, where several teams implode due to financial problems every year.

Anyway, it won't happen.

GLaDOS

Raskolnikov wrote: »

I don't know why people are so hostile to the idea. The LOI has become a farce, where several teams implode due to financial problems every year.

Because money that could be helping the LOI would be instead going to the Franchise

drkpower

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Because money that could be helping the LOI would be instead going to the Franchise

Sometimes, you just have to realise that certain concepts are not viable and move on. The emergence of provincial rugby within a Celtic and European Cup framework spelled the effective end of the AIL as a significant product.

Unfortunately, the same is true of the LOI. The puntyer wants a quality proeduct. For decades now, he has been going abroad to get it (whether that be physically, through TV or through merchandise). The LOI doesnt compete with the PL. So we can pretend that the LOI has some chance of redemption or we can move on; and bring the quality product to Ireland.

The LOI will survive; just at an amateur/semi-pro level - nothing to be ashamed about - but there is no point in pretending that the league is going to flourish if we avoid a Dublin PL team.

antomorro-sei

That better not happen.

GLaDOS

drkpower wrote: »

The LOI will survive; just at an amateur/semi-pro level - nothing to be ashamed about - but there is no point in pretending that the league is going to flourish if we avoid a Dublin PL team.

Nobody is under that illusion, however neglecting it further in favour of a team that plays in England would be intolerable

drkpower

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Nobody is under that illusion, however neglecting it further in favour of a team that plays in England would be intolerable

On that basis, should we have not established a provincial structure in rugby and instead tried to hold onto the AIL as the top level of the game?

I wouldnt mind if the LoI had shown glimpses of a bright future but, lets be honest, it hasnt. We know what the public want. We can let that continue - with no benefit to Ireland. Or we can try and get in on the action and provide a high quality product that the punter will want to support and which will allow Irish youngsters with ambition to consider staying in this country.

Who knows, down the line you could have 4 Irish PL teams in Dub, Bel, Cork and Gal.

chopperbyrne

drkpower wrote: »

People want top tier football in this country and they would support it if it arrived.

There already is top tier football in this country and not enough people support it.

gustavo

chopperbyrne wrote: »

There already is top tier football in this country and not enough people support it.

Exactly , at least the Old Firm are British

Leejo

Can't for the life of me figure out how or why this would be a good idea. Surely people who support LoI clubs would be fully against the idea, People who support PL clubs will continue to support those clubs and not stop supporting them because now there's a PL team in Ireland/Dublin/West Carlow.

If it was to ever go ahead I could see franchise Dublin Playing Liverpool in Lansdowne and the place being packed to the rafters with Irish scousers. Cringeworthy to say the least.

drkpower

chopperbyrne wrote: »

There already is top tier football in this country and not enough people support it.

It is the top of the Irish tier.
But people want top of the world tier.
So they go to England to get it.
Im suggesting bringing it to Ireland.
LoI have had decades to make the product work; it hasnt.

major bill

id never support a franchise club!!!! its all media talk and i would doubt that the majority of the english premier league would run with the idea. man united,liverpool,chelsea all have big irish support so i would not say they would be too keen to lose that to some ''mickey mouse team''. would the fai allow it considering our own league would die as a result,remember no league no national team.

also security wise id think it would be a disaster. rangers,chelsea and the likes of west ham coming over to dublin once a year the garda can barely control 6000 at a dublin derby let alone 10000 english on the beer.


wont happen, FACT

drkpower

Leejo wrote: »

Can't for the life of me figure out how or why this would be a good idea. Surely people who support LoI clubs would be fully against the idea, People who support PL clubs will continue to support those clubs and not stop supporting them because now there's a PL team in Ireland/Dublin/West Carlow.

If it was to ever go ahead I could see franchise Dublin Playing Liverpool in Lansdowne and the place being packed to the rafters with Irish scousers. Cringeworthy to say the least.

there are plenty of people with no great affinity to a PL club but who follow PL football. I am one.
But the real basis for future success is new fans; kids growing up at the age where they connect with a club are quite likely to connect with a Dublin team.

So, sure, the first few years may be tough, but there is no reason why a Dublin team would not gather support relatively quickly.

FatherTed

What if there was a francise club in Dublin and were shyte and got relegated? Who would support it then?

villains77

gustavo wrote: »

Exactly , at least the Old Firm are British

there scottish actually

major bill

villains77 wrote: »

there scottish actually

scotland not part of britain these days

Mitch Connor

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Which brings me back to my point about people not going to LOI games

Would do you reckon most Irish people would rather see their local side play at the weekend:

Bray or Man United?

Drogs or Chelsea

Sporting Fingal or Arsenal

Cork or Liverpool?

super_furry

All of which brings us back to the fact that the great Irish sporting public is made up of event junkies rather than supporters.

GLaDOS

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Would do you reckon most Irish people would rather see their local side play at the weekend:

Bray or Man United?

Drogs or Chelsea

Sporting Fingal or Arsenal

Cork or Liverpool?

As super furry said, they're going for the opposition, as opposed to actually supporting the club. Will these people show up for Hull, Stoke and Burnley?

major bill

ScienceNerd wrote: »

As super furry said, they're going for the opposition, as opposed to actually supporting the club. Will these people show up for Hull, Stoke and Burnley?

infairness we would have a great ''mob'' at those games:D

DSB

Only in Ireland...

Mitch Connor

ScienceNerd wrote: »

As super furry said, they're going for the opposition, as opposed to actually supporting the club. Will these people show up for Hull, Stoke and Burnley?

Not all of them, but the same can be said of Hull themselves and similar teams. Their attendences are higher for the bigger games, with people coming to see the bigger teams.

If you were to say that a large number of Liverpool, United and Chelsea fans (amongst others) were to buy season tickets (to be sure of getting to the game against their team, as well as agains the bigger rivals) then you would certainly have them going to support the opposition when the opposition is the team they support. However, you would also get them supporting Dublin PLfC against the rivals of their own team.

As for the Hull, Stoke etc games, attendences would be down, but then I still reckon they would have sold a massive percentage of season tickets so while the stadium may not be full it would have sold a high percentage.

Also, I still reckon that a decent percentage of those who have already bought season tickets would go these games against Hull and Stoke, as there is not much else to do in Ireland and they would have already paid for the ticket.

drkpower

ScienceNerd wrote: »

As super furry said, they're going for the opposition, as opposed to actually supporting the club. Will these people show up for Hull, Stoke and Burnley?

At the outset, there is no doubt that many supporters willl turn up just to see the opposition. Others will go because of the novelty. But that will change over time. And the team will develop its own support base. Parents will bring kids - those kids will develop an affinity for Dublin as opposed to L'Pool - that, to my mind, is a good thing.

As I said previously, a difficult period will be after the initial novelty has settled and before an indigenous support base has built up, but with the right strategy and approach, there is no reason why it cant be succesful. The important thing is the product is quality and once that is there, the rest will fall into place.

Mitch Connor

super_furry wrote: »

All of which brings us back to the fact that the great Irish sporting public is made up of event junkies rather than supporters.

and i am not saying you are incorrect, but event junkies pay the same for the tickets and the bean counters won't care too much. I think a fan base could be created over time, with the right marketing and management.

gosplan

super_furry wrote: »

All of which brings us back to the fact that the great Irish sporting public is made up of event junkies rather than supporters.

As was said before: Munster and Leinster - playing top level rugby and pretty much sold out for every league match.

I don't agree with the idea by the way, the PL should stay in England. However, it's totally wrong to say that it wouldn't work if a team was established here. It'd totally take off.

SligoBrewer

drkpower wrote: »

This idea makes perfect sense.
Sport is about entertainment.

This is where you fail. Sport is not about entertainment, not even remotely.

Sport is about participation and belonging. Think of the common words that are contained in every teams name the world over. "Club"

Think of the word club for a second.
Think of it.

Here is the formal definition of the word club.

a formal association of people with similar interests; "he joined a golf club"; "they formed a small lunch society"; "men from the fraternal order will staff the soup kitchen today"

Now, is sport about entertainment?

I support my club because of the participation, the belonging and the "association with people with similar interests". And if you expect to be entertained rather than belong, you are a consumer and not a supporter, and this is where Irish people as a generality fail.

iregk

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Would do you reckon most Irish people would rather see their local side play at the weekend:

Bray or Man United?

Drogs or Chelsea

Sporting Fingal or Arsenal

Cork or Liverpool?

Personally I'd rather see Rovers play Bohs than any of those!!!

drkpower

SligoBrewer wrote: »

This is where you fail. Sport is not about entertainment, not even remotely.

Think of the word club for a second.
Think of it.

Now, is sport about entertainment?

And if you expect to be entertained rather than belong, you are a consumer and not a supporter, and this is where Irish people as a generality fail.

Im thinking.....thinking.....really hard......
Yep; sport is about entertainment.
Thanks for the brief period of meditation though:D

To be serious though, sport is also about participation, about community, about feeling, about lots of things; but it is also entertainment. And every club starts somewhere. All of the other issues you mentin will develop over time. But the suggestion that "Sport is not about entertainment, not even remotely" is somewhat bizaarre.

Mr.Nice Guy

SligoBrewer wrote: »

This is where you fail. Sport is not about entertainment, not even remotely.

Sport is about participation and belonging. Think of the common words that are contained in every teams name the world over. "Club"

Think of the word club for a second.
Think of it.

Here is the formal definition of the word club.


Now, is sport about entertainment?

I support my club because of the participation, the belonging and the "association with people with similar interests". And if you expect to be entertained rather than belong, you are a consumer and not a supporter, and this is where Irish people as a generality fail.

Oh so it's nothing to do with your enjoyment of the sport then? I take it you're a big supporter of your local cricket and bowls clubs too yeah? Active in your local GAA branch as well I take it? Or do those sports not tickle your fancy, i.e. entertain you?

Bottom line is you follow a sport because you enjoy it, ergo you are entertained by it. There's no shame in seeking entertainment from sport.

Mitch Connor

iregk wrote: »

Personally I'd rather see Rovers play Bohs than any of those!!!

So you are in a tiny minority.

OPENROAD

Would be against it but it is not going to happen anyway imo.

The Volt

Mitch Connor wrote: »

So you are in a tiny minority.

Tiny? not for long. Rovers would have a fairly impressive fanbase by the time this materialized.

Walsh

shamblertine wrote: »

but since there are so few LOI fans I don't think their views are particularly relevant

People like you shouldn't be allowed to discuss football. Your a sheep. Follow the rest of your mates looking at the English premiership.

Leejo

drkpower wrote: »

there are plenty of people with no great affinity to a PL club but who follow PL football. I am one.
But the real basis for future success is new fans; kids growing up at the age where they connect with a club are quite likely to connect with a Dublin team.

So, sure, the first few years may be tough, but there is no reason why a Dublin team would not gather support relatively quickly.

There's 6 Dublin teams out there already kids.

You don't follow a team but you follow a league? The mind boggles. Do you follow any other countries football leagues? Genuine question because all your posts on here seem to be very much against your own domestic league.

The day this successfully bears fruit is the day I emigrate

bmcgov86

football is about entertainment-for the fans
BUT...football is about money for the clubs whether we like it or not. money comes from TV, hence TV companies such as Sky/Espn almost rule what will happen. for this reason i believe something of this nature will happen in the future. it makes good business sense for the bigger clubs. it could be the end of the smaller clubs though, ie: LOI teams.

Walsh

redout wrote: »

Must be thousands.

Thousands of people go over every week? What planes are these people getting, theres usually two flights in and two flights out on the day of the match within the time it takes to get to the ground and all that business, i think most people like the warmth of the couch or the pub to watch it.

Mitch Connor

Walsh wrote: »

People like you shouldn't be allowed to discuss football. Your a sheep. Follow the rest of your mates looking at the English premiership.

You have a Man United crest in your sig. If you don't watch them, or indeed the Premiership, why is it there?

DSB

Jaysus, football really does turn the typical armchair fan into a budding business man/economist.

major bill

i would rather see our top few clubs compete in an atlantic league(league been discussed by the dutch) than one franchise club with no history or tradition competing in the epl.

Walsh

Mitch Connor wrote: »

You have a Man United crest in your sig. If you don't watch them, or indeed the Premiership, why is it there?

I can multi task mate, Shels every friday, United on a saturday and sunday. There are so many EPL fans in Ireland that their views are not relevant. What a ridiculous statement that would be for me to make.

Mitch Connor

DSB wrote: »

Jaysus, football really does turn the typical armchair fan into a budding business man/economist.

Or people just like a good debate, and feel discussing various aspects of such a move isn't the worst thing in the world...

I don't want it to happen, I don't think it will happen, but I don't see a problem with discussing what the reasoning behind such a project could be.

chopperbyrne

Walsh wrote: »

Thousands of people go over every week? What planes are these people getting, theres usually two flights in and two flights out on the day of the match within the time it takes to get to the ground and all that business, i think most people like the warmth of the couch or the pub to watch it.

78 or so pack on to a coach and get on a ferry. This happens numerous times over.

Many travel over on the Friday evening or night and many stay until the Sunday.

Xavi6

Any remote chance the LOI has of prospering would be extinguished if this took place. I'd rather people continued to ignore the league than be lured into this farce which would kill it off altogether.