"Irish franchise for Premier League?" [Mod Note: See Post #1]

drkpower

DSB wrote: »

Well I presume you're talking about the McDonalds, Burger King type franchise right?

You used the term franchise, so can you please define it.

drkpower

DSB wrote: »

The point is that those 2 teams greatly distort a standard that is otherwise similar enough to the LOI Premier.

Sure without Torres and Gerrard, L'Pool are sh!te but they'l still end up 4th or 5th this year. Yawn.

DSB

drkpower wrote: »

You used the term franchise, so can you please define it.

Nope, I'm not a dictionary, if you want one, there are plenty online. If you're trying to imply I can't define it, thats quite silly, considering I could google a definition in about a second. I'm not really interested in indulging in debate with you any longer as its really irritating me, as I don't value your opinion on the matter. I've made my point, and thats enough.

drkpower

Kenteach wrote: »

drkpower, what were the last EPL and LoI games you attended to comapre the 'product' on show?

Do I have to attend to have a view in this regard?
Is watching them on TV ok?
Does anyone who has never been to an American Football game have a right to comment on its quality?
What point are you making?
Are you making any point at all?


LoI 3 years agoo, PL 2 years ago, btw

Iron Hide

drkpower wrote: »

You used the term franchise, so can you please define it.

Franchise being a chain store (Burger King, Penneys etc..)
An exclusive right to use a name or sell branded merchandise.
Media franchise is ownership of the setting of a film, book, play etc. and its included characters
A sports franchise eg: NY Giants, is the exclusive right of the owners' employees, shareholders and/or investors ONLY, to use and market the name and all associated brands, trademarks, copyrights etc. of New York Giants

drkpower

DSB wrote: »

Nope, I'm not a dictionary, if you want one, there are plenty online. If you're trying to imply I can't define it, thats quite silly, considering I could google a definition in about a second. I'm not really interested in indulging in debate with you any longer as its really irritating me, as I don't value your opinion on the matter. I've made my point, and thats enough.

Ah I see, you tell me you cant be an 'actual fan' of anything that began as a 'franchise' and now you dont know or wont tell me what you consider to be a 'franchise'......:D And now you are not interested in debating....:D.

I think that's the equivalent of taking your ball and going home when you are 3-0 down......:p

Seeya.

antomorro-sei

drkpower wrote: »

Haha.
You cant just take out teams to make your point.
Why not take out a few more!!:D

Try and stick to the facts.

Why can't you?

Celtic and Rangers clearly are the SPL. Without them, SPL is the same as LOI.

A Dub in Glasgo

antomorro-sei wrote: »

Why can't you?

. Without them, SPL is the same as LOI.

I know the standard is not that good but how show me the evidence that allowed you to come to that conclusion

antomorro-sei

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

I know the standard is not that good but how show me the evidence that allowed you to come to that conclusion

I don't have the evidence at all. But, Shels were 3 up against the Gers at one stage, albeit they lost 5-3 I think. Pats drew away in Celtic. Gretna got a royal hiding from Derry. I'm not gonna even attempt to say I'm an expert on SPL but anytime I watch a game that doesn't have Celtic or Rangers the football is truely awful. Worse, imo, than LOI.

major bill

drkpower wrote: »

Swansea and Cardiff arent in the Premier League....?:rolleyes:

But if the English PL admit Scottish teams and if Welsh teams are entitled to be promoted into it, it is no longer the English Pl. So, then we can join. Sorted.

They have rejected the idea of the old firm entering and tbf the welsh teams have long been playing in the english pyramid system as they had no league of their own for years so its irrelavant to compare!!! afaik there are currently 6 welsh sides in english football;)

drkpower

antomorro-sei wrote: »

Why can't you?

Celtic and Rangers clearly are the SPL. Without them, SPL is the same as LOI.

You have answered your own question.
You cant take out Rangers and Celtic because they, eh, are in the Scotish League. I also disagree with the second leg of your argument but its irrelevent anyway. The Scottish League includes C&R; that is simply a fact. You cant just remove them to make a point as it is no longer a fact if you do.

Can we reome Henry, Anelka and Ribery from Saturdays team because it will be easier for us if we do??!!:D

Kenteach

drkpower wrote: »

Do I have to attend to have a view in this regard?
Is watching them on TV ok?
Does anyone who has never been to an American Football game have a right to comment on its quality?
What point are you making?
Are you making any point at all?


LoI 3 years agoo, PL 2 years ago, btw

Well we all know that watching on TV and watching in person are completely different experiences, but each to their own I suppose.
My point, in a round about way, is that the actual quality of the match, or the team, or the league, is only really relevant to someone with no genuine connection to a team. For example, I'm a season ticket holder at Drogheda Utd, a former season ticket holder at Upton Park, former season ticket holder at Brisbane Road (Leyton Orient) and a former season ticket holder at Celtic Park (due to where I've lived mainly). Seen Celtic v AC Milan, Barcelona, Bayern, Liverpool, etc, at Parkhead, West Ham v Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, etc at Upton Park. I've seen some really great games, some really great players, some memorable moments. But even still, seeing some part time plumber scrape the ball over the line with his arse for a last minute winner against Monaghan or Bray beats the lot!

I'm not trying to say 'oh, look at me, I support an LoI team and I go to games, blah, blah, blah'. My point is that if people wanted to 'support' a soccer team based in Dublin, they already have a choice. If, however, they wish to support a team in the EPL just because its in the EPL, then they are not supporters at all, they are consumers. Nothing against them, as long as its acknowledged.
Jaysus, this was supposed to be a two line answer, sorry:p

antomorro-sei

drkpower wrote: »

You have answered your own question.
You cant take out Rangers and Celtic because they, eh, are in the Scotish League. I also disagree with the second leg of your argument but its irrelevent anyway. The Scottish League includes C&R; that is simply a fact. You cant just remove them to make a point as it is no longer a fact if you do.

Can we reome Henry, Anelka and Ribery from Saturdays team because it will be easier for us if we do??!!:D

Not even for comparison purposes?

drkpower

Kenteach wrote: »

My point is that if people wanted to 'support' a soccer team based in Dublin, they already have a choice. If, however, they wish to support a team in the EPL just because its in the EPL, then they are not supporters at all, they are consumers. Nothing against them, as long as its acknowledged.
Jaysus, this was supposed to be a two line answer, sorry:p

Are people circa 1995, who had the choice to support Marys or Old Belvedere in the AIL, but who chose to support Leinster in the Magners and Heineken, consumers or supporters?

antomorro-sei

You can't compare Rugby fans to Football fans.

A Dub in Glasgo

drkpower wrote: »

Try and stick to the facts.

antomorro-sei wrote: »

Why can't you?

antomorro-sei wrote: »

I don't have the evidence at all.

:D

drkpower

antomorro-sei wrote: »

You can't compare Rugby fans to Football fans.

Why not?

And Im not cpmparing them - Im asking whether a Leinster supporter is a consumer or a supporter? Because Kenteach appears to believe they are consumers.

antomorro-sei

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

:D

LOL, point being?

Nice that you ignored the rest of my post :rolleyes:

A Dub in Glasgo

antomorro-sei wrote: »

LOL, point being?

Nice that you ignored the rest of my post :rolleyes:

Point is obvious....

I ignored it because it was not the 'facts'

antomorro-sei

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Point is obvious....

I ignored it because it was not the 'facts'

Derry 5 - 1 Gretna is a fact lad.

Not once did I claim to have "facts" either.

A Dub in Glasgo

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62983476&postcount=201

antomorro-sei

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62983476&postcount=201

I didn't post that

Kenteach

drkpower wrote: »

Are people circa 1995, who had the choice to support Marys or Old Belvedere in the AIL, but who chose to support Leinster in the Magners and Heineken, consumers or supporters?

You make a good point. I believe some are supporters and some are consumers. You only have to look at where some of the Munster fans originate from to appreciate that. However the context is slightly different. Back in the 90's, following rugby was a minority interest. You followed your club, which was part of a province. If you lived near enough, you might toddle along to watch your province too. Then if you were near Dublin or willing to travel, you'd support your country too. But without some kind of 'roots', I don't think a soccer team planted in on top of existing teams (regardless of what league they are to play in) would work. Thats not the way the Irish sports fan/watcher operates.

Anyway, as it turns out this proposal was never on the cards.

ziggy

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drkpower

Kenteach wrote: »

You make a good point. I believe some are supporters and some are consumers.

Just like some Man U/Chelsea fans are consumers. there is nothing qualitative that you can poin to that makes football fans more 'real', more 'actual', more of a 'fan' than a rugby fan. And Im sure some Shels fans would be consumers if they were selling a product that wasnt relatively poor.

Kenteach wrote: »

But without some kind of 'roots', I don't think a soccer team planted in on top of existing teams (regardless of what league they are to play in) would work. Thats not the way the Irish sports fan/watcher operates.

'Leinster' had no roots to speak of, so that sugestion is incorrect. It rarely played games of any significance. Yet, in just a decade, the fanbase has grown hugely. And it has predominantly grown from (a) the people who had no affinity to Marys/Old Belvedere, but liked rugby, international rugby specificaly and (b) kids. There is absolutely no reason why the same would not happen with Dublin FC and the fanbase would grow from (a) the people who had no affinity to Shels/St Pats or ManU/Chelsea and (b) kids..

Bland generalisations like 'Thats not the way the Irish sports fan/watcher operates' dont cut it Im afraid, particularly in light of evidence to the contrary.

applehunter

Ivan Yates had a piece in the Examiner yesterday calling for Irish franchise.

Pie in the sky stuff.

antomorro-sei

ziggy wrote: »

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Aberdeen got beaten by Bohs too recently, I think. Hibs lost to Elfsborg in the same year that St Pats knocked them out of the Uefa Cup.





This has gone too far off-topic lol

ziggy

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major bill

ziggy wrote: »

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Hibs are one club among many scottish teams that serioulsy overate themselves and are living on former glory years.i would say that pats team would have comfortbly beat hibs that year.

any football fan knows the spl is overated and i wouldnt even compare it to the loi cos its irrelevant!!!.


anyway way off topic and once again has been turned into a loi v the world debate.:rolleyes:

ziggy

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TheBigLebowski

Seriously lads. "My league's better than yours. No my league is better than your's. No it's not. Yes it is." You're embarrasing yourselves.

Anyway, this franchise talk is absolute horse manure and will never happen for many, many reasons.

Pisco Sour

DSB wrote: »

I don't have much respect for the support of English teams by Irish people to be honest. Very little altogether, but I do consider it a much more preferable scenario than the one you are proposing. And I deem it impossible to be an actual fan of a franchise as opposed to a football club.

If you would like the difference between a franchise and a football club. Football clubs were set up for sporting reasons, and still may be in areas where football isn't really there. Franchises are set up to be products, for people like yourself, who have no real interest in being an actual supporter, but like all the glitz that gos along with it.

Disgusting comment. Try telling that to the people of Buffalo for example who would die for their 2 professional franchise teams (Bills and Sabres). I've never seen such a city as passionate about their local teams.

curry-muff

To be honest if it happened the team would be based in dublin and only dublin would care about it, for it to hold any interest at all it would have to go by provinces or something, pity Donegal is stuck in Ulster though :rolleyes:

Exit

Firstly, this is a horrible idea, and I hope it never happens. I'm also glad that the Glasgow teams were knocked back in their efforts.

But, playing devil's advocate for a second... I read through this entire mind numbing thread and didn't see this mentioned. Everyone seems to be assuming that this Irish franchise would be a completely new club. Why wouldn't it necessarily be a Bohs or Pat's who are accepted into the English league (and have to work their way up to PL)? It's not likely, but seeing as this whole thread is theoretical, why not throw it out there?

And if that did happen, how would LOI fans here react? If it was your club that was accepted into the English league, how would you feel about it?

ziggy

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GLaDOS

Exit wrote: »

Why wouldn't it necessarily be a Bohs or Pat's who are accepted into the English league (and have to work their way up to PL)? It's not likely, but seeing as this whole thread is theoretical, why not throw it out there?

And if that did happen, how would LOI fans here react? If it was your club that was accepted into the English league, how would you feel about it?

As a Bohs fan I'd be disgusted, it would an insult to us fans, the Irish league and the English league

LeixlipRed

The Irish League? How big of a Bohs fan did you say you were??

GLaDOS

LeixlipRed wrote: »

The Irish League? How big of a Bohs fan did you say you were??

LOI then :rolleyes:

LeixlipRed

Thanks. Anyway, this idea is hilarious. Irish "football fans" are barstoolers. They don't go to games. Attendances would be made up of Irish fans of the away club if any of them could be arsed. So when Wigan come to town there'd be no one at the games.

Gavin "shels"

LeixlipRed wrote: »

Thanks. Anyway, this idea is hilarious. Irish "football fans" are barstoolers. They don't go to games. Attendances would be made up of Irish fans of the away club if any of them could be arsed. So when Wigan come to town there'd be no one at the games.

+1 Would make UCD or Fingals away support look like Dinamo Zagrebs.:D


Not sure if anyone mentioned it, but by any chance OP are you Martin Cullen? :rolleyes:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0mEv4tPekI
"We have the fanbase here in Dublin to do it", and when was the last team he was at a LoI match in Dublin. Kinda sums up our government..

drkpower

LeixlipRed wrote: »

Thanks. Anyway, this idea is hilarious. Irish "football fans" are barstoolers. They don't go to games.

Correction; Irish football fans do not go to LoI games; they consistently go to games of a superior quality. You even had circa 50000 going to a meaningless international game v Montenegro, and we always get healthy attendances at friendlies versus fairly unglamorous nations.

Provide a quality product and people will come, no doubt about that.

Gavin "shels"

drkpower wrote: »

Correction; Irish football fans do not go to LoI games; they consistently go to games of a superior quality. You even had circa 50000 going to a meaningless international game v Montenegro, and we always get healthy attendances at friendlies versus fairly unglamorous nations.

Provide a quality product and people will come, no doubt about that.

English international team is far superior than the Irish international team so what stops thousands of Oirish going to Wembley for matches instead of Croke? Basing that on your logic mind you.

BTW football isn't 100% about the product and for people who think it is, well they're mostly barstoolers..

LeixlipRed

drkpower wrote: »

Correction; Irish football fans do not go to LoI games; they consistently go to games of a superior quality. You even had circa 50000 going to a meaningless international game v Montenegro, and we always get healthy attendances at friendlies versus fairly unglamorous nations.

Provide a quality product and people will come, no doubt about that.

If Ireland go back to the dark old days of finishing near the bottom of qualifying groups you'll soon see "fans" deserting the team. Event junkies my friend not fans

drkpower

Gavin shels wrote: »

English international team is far superior than the Irish international team so what stops thousands of Oirish going to Wembley for matches instead of Croke? Basing that on your logic mind you.

BTW football isn't 100% about the product and for people who think it is, well they're mostly barstoolers..

I see what you are saying in your 1st para but is has nothing to do with this 'franchise' proposal; this will allow Irish people who are so inclined to support a local club playing at the top level rather than supporting English clubs. More importantly, Irish kids growing up will have an Irish option to support rather than choosing for a variety of reasons to suppprt Chelsea, ManU or whoever. Its all good.

Of course it isnt 100% about quality of the product; I never said it was. But quality of the product is a significant factor.

drkpower

LeixlipRed wrote: »

If Ireland go back to the dark old days of finishing near the bottom of qualifying groups you'll soon see "fans" deserting the team. Event junkies my friend not fans

Support always fluctuates with success levels; its a fact of life. Hopefully the longer a Dublin FC is established the more grassroots support will develop and solidify.

pablomakaveli

drkpower wrote: »

Support always fluctuates with success levels; its a fact of life. Hopefully the longer a Dublin FC is established the more grassroots support will develop and solidify.

And how is a "Dublin FC" going to appeal to football fans from other parts of Ireland. A dublin based team would only appeal to people in dublin and the area around dublin. The people in those areas would be further split along people who want to continue supporting their EPL/SPL/LOI club and those who will support the new team. Taking into the account that after a couple of seasons especially if they don't win anything the novelty will wear off, people will lose interest and they will struggle.

I don't think it is really viable tbh.

drkpower

pablomakaveli wrote: »

And how is a "Dublin FC" going to appeal to football fans from other parts of Ireland. A dublin based team would only appeal to people in dublin and the area around dublin. The people in those areas would be further split along people who want to continue supporting their EPL/SPL/LOI club and those who will support the new team. Taking into the account that after a couple of seasons especially if they don't win anything the novelty will wear off, people will lose interest and they will struggle.

I don't think it is really viable tbh.

1-1.5 million population should be enough of a population base to ensure its viability, even with those who currently support LoI/Premiership. The plan wouldnt be without its difficulties, but the potential is there for sure.

Cork probably doesnt have the numbers to support its own team but if they did, Id support it.

The Volt

drkpower wrote: »

Cork probably doesnt have the numbers to support its own team but if they did, Id support it.

:rolleyes:

LeixlipRed

drkpower wrote: »

Support always fluctuates with success levels; its a fact of life. Hopefully the longer a Dublin FC is established the more grassroots support will develop and solidify.

There will be no grassroots support. The grassroot support in Dublin is already there. It's tiny and they all attend games either at junior or senior level.

Bubs101

TBH, considering how much new Sunderland fans cropped up when it effectively became an Irish franchise I would imagine it would do very well