"Irish franchise for Premier League?" [Mod Note: See Post #1]

drkpower

invincibleirish wrote: »

You've drenched your posts with market research and marketing language but i think you ignore the very obvious deficiency in your viewpoint.
.

There are two issues here:
1. Will it happen
2. Should it happen

Your arguments are predominantly about 1. You may be right. PErsonally I feel that eventually commercial concerns will win out and there will be a Dublin FC in either a UK/Irl or a European League. But its all speculation really.

Walsh

drkpower wrote: »

Football at the top level doesnt exist; I dont want to see poor quality fare. Just like I dont want to watch the lower leagues if English footballl or the AIL in rugby. Like most things I enjoy, I want to watch the best, not something that is far below the best.

You can call me a consumer, if that makes you feel better.
Just like i can wonder why you want to support something that is objectively far poorer than the alternatives. But I wont; Ill lave you to the LoI while I watch Dublin FC v Arsenal at the soon to be built 50000 Nike Arena.....:rolleyes:

The league of Ireland will never progress if people dont pay in to grounds to watch the football, there is no money and there never will be if people dont get off their arses and support their local team. Oh and the last be, you can do that, i'll be the one laughing at you paying 60 euro every week to watch your team get slaughtered.

Iron Hide

drkpower wrote: »

Give me a break!:D

"rugby teams just aren't as passionately supported as football teams"; What are you talking about...?!! Do you have a table of 'most paasionately supported sports'? And what relevance is it to this debate?

Try and actually address the issue rather than making generic points about the extraordinary pasion you supposedly have for football. And try not to be clouded by your obvious emotion on this issue, you will come to a more sober conclusion....;)

And forgive me if I dont take lectures in 'support' from those who 'follow' teams from various areas in the UK merely by virtue of who was poplular in 1985 or who their big brother supported....! I'll take the passion of a Leinster or Munster supporter over that any day.

See Heineken Cup Semi-Final '06 and '09, and Finals '06, '08 and '09 for further details...

drkpower

DSB wrote: »

Quality is irrelevant, football exists here, just not to consumers like you who view it as a product, and no I've already stated its impossible to be an actual fan of a franchise.

Quality is irrelevent......!! Fair enough; I wholeheartedly disagree.

Its impossible to be an actual fan of a franchise; Ok; so my kids grow up only knowing that Dublin FC are a club down the road; they go to their games every Saturday; they have pictures of the players on the wall, they have Dublin FC duvets; they cry when Dublin FC lose; they celebrate when they win; they lose girlfriends because they insist on going to the match with the lads every Saturday; when Dublin FC get relegayed, they feel physically ill and are depressed for a year; they get theri own kids involved with Dublin FC; they go as a family; they watch Dublin FC win the Eurpoean Cup in 2055; when my kid dies, his kids drape hios coffin with the Dublin FC colours and tell stories of how their Da loved Dublin FC, was loyal to them through thick and thin......

Ah, but neither my kid or his kids are "actual fans" because Dublin FC started as a franchise .

What utter rubbish. Pathetic.

DSB

drkpower wrote: »

Quality is irrelevent......!! Fair enough; I wholeheartedly disagree.

Its impossible to be an actual fan of a franchise; Ok; so my kids grow up only knowing that Dublin FC are a club down the road; they go to their games every Saturday; they have pictures of the players on the wall, they have Dublin FC duvets; they cry when Dublin FC lose; they celebrate when they win; they lose girlfriends because they insist on going to the match with the lads every Saturday; when Dublin FC get relegayed, they feel physically ill and are depressed for a year; they get theri own kids involved with Dublin FC; they go as a family; they watch Dublin FC win the Eurpoean Cup in 2055; when my kid dies, his kids drape hios coffin with the Dublin FC colours and tell stories of how their Da loved Dublin FC, was loyal to them through thick and thin......

Ah, but neither my kid or his kids are "actual fans" because Dublin FC started as a franchise .

What utter rubbish. Pathetic.

What do you mean 'started as a franchise'? Once a franchise, always a franchise.

DSB

Red Storm wrote: »

See Heineken Cup Semi-Final '06 and '09, and Finals '06, '08 and '09 for further details...

It is really easy to be a passionate supporter for big games though.

drkpower

Walsh wrote: »

The league of Ireland will never progress if people dont pay in to grounds to watch the football, there is no money and there never will be if people dont get off their arses and support their local team. Oh and the last be, you can do that, i'll be the one laughing at you paying 60 euro every week to watch your team get slaughtered.

Let me make this clear; if LoI was genuinely viable and could become similar in quality to, for instance, Scotland (similar enough in population to the island), I would support it and would go against this plan (for Dublin FC) to provide the room within which the LoI could breathe.

But, the LoI hasnt been able to show any signs of this revival. It is simply fanciful to believe it will happen.. So, the choice is to go against Dublin FC to prop up a dead duck or accept reality and move on..

drkpower

DSB wrote: »

What do you mean 'started as a franchise'? Once a franchise, always a franchise.

Do you know what a franchise is?

Walsh

drkpower wrote: »

Let me make this clear; if LoI was genuinely viable and could become similar in quality to, for instance, Scotland

More ignorance, the irish league would probably at that standard already but setanta spice 2 well supported teams up and its all gravy, take out celtic and rangers, what do you have?

Derry City 5 - 1 Gretna.

DSB

drkpower wrote: »

Do you know what a franchise is?

Yes. Do you know what supporting a football club is?

drkpower

DSB wrote: »

Yes. Do you know what supporting a football club is?

Humour me; Im interested to know what you consider a franchise to be considering that this is your criteria for determinuing what a 'actual fan' is?

Kenteach

Capello has the English playing a more attractive and better quality game than the Irish team. Do we desert our inferior 'product' and start following the English team (after all they are made up of players from clubs that Irish people cream themselves over every week?)
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, my own is that if you trawl around different sports and different leagues looking for the best quality, your not a supporter, your a consumer. The quality argument is lazy. As many people followed English teams in the 80's and early 90's, when the English product was far from the best quality.

drkpower

Walsh wrote: »

More ignorance, the irish league would probably at that standard already but setanta spice 2 well supported teams up and its all gravy, take out celtic and rangers, what do you have?

Derry City 5 - 1 Gretna.

Haha.
You cant just take out teams to make your point.
Why not take out a few more!!:D

Try and stick to the facts.

DSB

drkpower wrote: »

Humour me; Im interested to know what you consider a franchise to be considering that this is your criteria for determinuing what a 'actual fan' is?

Well I presume you're talking about the McDonalds, Burger King type franchise right?

DSB

drkpower wrote: »

Haha.
You cant just take out teams to make your point.
Why not take out a few more!!:D

Try and stick to the facts.

The point is that those 2 teams greatly distort a standard that is otherwise similar enough to the LOI Premier.

Iron Hide

DSB wrote: »

Well I presume you're talking about the McDonalds, Burger King type franchise right?

Or the way things are run in the US, where franchises are awarded to cities deemed suitable enough.. (NFL, NBA etc..)

Kenteach

drkpower, what were the last EPL and LoI games you attended to comapre the 'product' on show?

DSB

Red Storm wrote: »

Or the way things are run in the US, where franchises are awarded to cities deemed suitable enough.. (NFL, NBA etc..)

Yup I'm aware. Last thing we wanna be doing is following an Americanised model of things, given how much they've bastardised the rest of our society.

drkpower

Kenteach wrote: »

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, my own is that if you trawl around different sports and different leagues looking for the best quality, your not a supporter, your a consumer..

Precisely; I want people to support their own. That is why I want Dublin FC rather than Irish kids supporting Chelsea.

Thanks for the support.

Kenteach wrote: »

The quality argument is lazy. As many people followed English teams in the 80's and early 90's, when the English product was far from the best quality.

Yes, the English game was in an awful state between 1980-1985....!
Teeheehee. Nice one!

A Dub in Glasgo

Walsh wrote: »

More ignorance, the irish league would probably at that standard already but setanta spice 2 well supported teams up and its all gravy, take out celtic and rangers, what do you have?

Derry City 5 - 1 Gretna.

Come on now, one game not a summer makes. I could point to Celtic beating the giants of Europe, does that mean they are better than them? Of course not!

drkpower

DSB wrote: »

Well I presume you're talking about the McDonalds, Burger King type franchise right?

You used the term franchise, so can you please define it.

drkpower

DSB wrote: »

The point is that those 2 teams greatly distort a standard that is otherwise similar enough to the LOI Premier.

Sure without Torres and Gerrard, L'Pool are sh!te but they'l still end up 4th or 5th this year. Yawn.

DSB

drkpower wrote: »

You used the term franchise, so can you please define it.

Nope, I'm not a dictionary, if you want one, there are plenty online. If you're trying to imply I can't define it, thats quite silly, considering I could google a definition in about a second. I'm not really interested in indulging in debate with you any longer as its really irritating me, as I don't value your opinion on the matter. I've made my point, and thats enough.

drkpower

Kenteach wrote: »

drkpower, what were the last EPL and LoI games you attended to comapre the 'product' on show?

Do I have to attend to have a view in this regard?
Is watching them on TV ok?
Does anyone who has never been to an American Football game have a right to comment on its quality?
What point are you making?
Are you making any point at all?


LoI 3 years agoo, PL 2 years ago, btw

Iron Hide

drkpower wrote: »

You used the term franchise, so can you please define it.

Franchise being a chain store (Burger King, Penneys etc..)
An exclusive right to use a name or sell branded merchandise.
Media franchise is ownership of the setting of a film, book, play etc. and its included characters
A sports franchise eg: NY Giants, is the exclusive right of the owners' employees, shareholders and/or investors ONLY, to use and market the name and all associated brands, trademarks, copyrights etc. of New York Giants

drkpower

DSB wrote: »

Nope, I'm not a dictionary, if you want one, there are plenty online. If you're trying to imply I can't define it, thats quite silly, considering I could google a definition in about a second. I'm not really interested in indulging in debate with you any longer as its really irritating me, as I don't value your opinion on the matter. I've made my point, and thats enough.

Ah I see, you tell me you cant be an 'actual fan' of anything that began as a 'franchise' and now you dont know or wont tell me what you consider to be a 'franchise'......:D And now you are not interested in debating....:D.

I think that's the equivalent of taking your ball and going home when you are 3-0 down......:p

Seeya.

antomorro-sei

drkpower wrote: »

Haha.
You cant just take out teams to make your point.
Why not take out a few more!!:D

Try and stick to the facts.

Why can't you?

Celtic and Rangers clearly are the SPL. Without them, SPL is the same as LOI.

A Dub in Glasgo

antomorro-sei wrote: »

Why can't you?

. Without them, SPL is the same as LOI.

I know the standard is not that good but how show me the evidence that allowed you to come to that conclusion

antomorro-sei

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

I know the standard is not that good but how show me the evidence that allowed you to come to that conclusion

I don't have the evidence at all. But, Shels were 3 up against the Gers at one stage, albeit they lost 5-3 I think. Pats drew away in Celtic. Gretna got a royal hiding from Derry. I'm not gonna even attempt to say I'm an expert on SPL but anytime I watch a game that doesn't have Celtic or Rangers the football is truely awful. Worse, imo, than LOI.

major bill

drkpower wrote: »

Swansea and Cardiff arent in the Premier League....?:rolleyes:

But if the English PL admit Scottish teams and if Welsh teams are entitled to be promoted into it, it is no longer the English Pl. So, then we can join. Sorted.

They have rejected the idea of the old firm entering and tbf the welsh teams have long been playing in the english pyramid system as they had no league of their own for years so its irrelavant to compare!!! afaik there are currently 6 welsh sides in english football;)