Just when you think you have it cracked..

jpr1973

I know this is hard to quantify but can any consistent winning 100nl 6max player here tell me what was there biggest ever downswing they had at 100nl and not including where you may have tilted off a few buyins due to the bad run.

Or are downswings and tilt inseparable!

I have had an 18 buyin downswing but the last 6 were definitely avoidable…Back to 50nl again for a while

digiman

jpr1973 wrote: »

I know this is hard to quantify but can any consistent winning 100nl 6max player here tell me what was there biggest ever downswing they had at 100nl and not including where you may have tilted off a few buyins due to the bad run.

Or are downswings and tilt inseparable!

I have had an 18 buyin downswing but the last 6 were definitely avoidable…Back to 50nl again for a while

For me this part is very true, I've had a few 20bi to 30bi downswings at 100nl and 200nl, but I'm sure a lot of it was just bad play and tilt.

TommyGunne

I've had a few 20-30 downswings as well at 100NL. Never any more though thank god.

I just play bad when I'm downswinging. I wouldn't call it tilt, but I just don't play as well as I can. Getting through it is tough, but just be aware that 18 is definitely not unusual.

6r4mad

TommyGunne wrote: »

I've had a few 20-30 downswings as well at 100NL. Never any more though thank god.

I just play bad when I'm downswinging. I wouldn't call it tilt, but I just don't play as well as I can. Getting through it is tough, but just be aware that 18 is definitely not unusual.

sorry not used to all this slang you have for poker just wanna no what downswinging is and a few 20-30 sorry if it stupid question:o

TommyGunne

6r4mad wrote: »

sorry not used to all this slang you have for poker just wanna no what downswinging is and a few 20-30 sorry if it stupid question:o

Downswinging is losing money. When I said 20-30 I meant 20 to 30 buyins, which would be €2000-€3000 at 100NL.

jimbling

Biggest I've gone through is a 22 Buy-in. It was horrendous. Personally I think you have to take a bit of a break. A week off perhaps, then start fresh.

I do tilt. In fact, I just tilted there 10 minutes ago. After running a Full house into Quads and losing TPTK vs underpair in the space of 10 seconds I freaked out a bit. Ended up all in preflop with AQ, which I would normally never do unless against a maniac. Pushed a top two pair on the river when I should have just called. He had a straight.
I really piss myself off with this. Tilt can turn a bit of a downswing into a terrible one.
I have come up with all different ways to try and stop myself, but as of yet, nothing has had a lasting effect. It's a mental block.

TommyGunne wrote: »

I just play bad when I'm downswinging. I wouldn't call it tilt, but I just don't play as well as I can.

Tilt is when a player adopts a "less than optimally" strategy due to an emotional influence. Most times that is associated with being overly aggressive and going a bit crazy, but that's not always the case.

colquhom

ive had two 45+ ones and over my lifetime playing at the level im a pretty decent winner. I've also had 100k hands breakeven. It happens. I'm a massive tiltbox though so if i could sort that out it wouldnt happen as much.

Flipz4Rollz

I've had a few 18+ BI downswings, But that was HU.It can be though to keep faith in poker when this happens.
Just keep thinking to yourself that after this big downswing you're goin' to run like suilen;):D

BobSloane

For ages my biggest downswing was 15 bi's.
Then I went -40 at 1/2.
Then I lost my job.
Then the wife left me.
Then the bank were coming for my house.
Then I went on Frontline and gave Pat Kenny a good bollocking.
Now the papers say i'm a racist nut

lucky-colm

it can be a vicious circle downswing causing tilt, tilt causing bad play and bad play leading to a prolonged downswing

biggest downswing
3 weeks(not a single cash) of playing $75 buyin 45 man s&gs on full tilt figured i was playing about 40 of those babies a week luckily for me i only play in the evenings and weekends and not a full time player

phew!!!:D


oh yes and the other big downswing i had was in the jax one time when it fell out of my hand and "swung down" the way:o

Treehouse72

27 BIs. Very little monkey tilt, but plenty of Tommy Angelo "tilt" (playing my C game, not concentrating, playing tired, quitting bad, playing too many tables, playing hungry etc.)

I try to use downswings as an opportunity to practice Zen-like control. That is to say, in the midst of a DS when your brain is getting bombarded by the crap-storm non-stop, you must remind yourself that this precise moment - losing money - is one of the toughest challenges facing a poker player. At that moment, the game becomes as much about controlling emotions as playing your cards. So make sure you are mentally aware that that is the game you are playing at that precise moment.

So, I challenge myself to see if I can keep making calm, correct decisions in the face of the cosmic brutality being rained down on me. That's the game. Zen is reached when the BI's don't effect your play and you are right back into the next hand considering ranges and bet sizes. Harder said than done, but it's what I try to do. Turn it into a battle between the brave, valiant, emotionally-controlled Hero and the nasty, unfair, cowardly, yahoo Villains. Rise above that schniz.

hotspur

Treehouse72 wrote: »

Turn it into a battle between the brave, valiant, emotionally-controlled Hero and the nasty, unfair, cowardly, yahoo Villains. Rise above that schniz.

http://www.gamblib.org/catalogue/article/introducing-the-hero-complex-and-the-mythic-iconic/

Mullicker

Wow i thought i was bad! I'd say 10 buyins downswings are the worst i have had, and i tilt a lot. I usually do something drastic once i reach 10 like drop a level, play tournies or sumtin. I think at 100nl though if you having massive downswings like greater than 10 buyins you are not playing well or you haven't been table selecting at all. I just don't think there is that much variance at micro/small stakes unless you are mass multi-tabling.

TommyGunne

Mullicker wrote: »

Wow i thought i was bad! I'd say 10 buyins downswings are the worst i have had, and i tilt a lot. I usually do something drastic once i reach 10 like drop a level, play tournies or sumtin. I think at 100nl though if you having massive downswings like greater than 10 buyins you are not playing well or you haven't been table selecting at all. I just don't think there is that much variance at micro/small stakes unless you are mass multi-tabling.

Your last sentence doesn't make sense, and its likely that you just haven't played enough hands, or just play a very low variance style. I don't have a huge wr, and have lots of variance. Hence, swings.

mdwexford

Mass multi tabling should have no bearing on your variance if you are competent at it.

Mullicker

I've played about 100k 50nl. I've played 30k of 100nl and 200nl together so not that big a sample.

My point was that i could see how mass-multitablers may encounter these kind of downswings at these stakes because they will have lower winrates than a guy thats playing 4 tables. The lower your winrate the greater your variance from my understanding, not a matter of your style. And my other point was that if you are having massive downswings at these stakes it would be down to tilt and table selection and i wouldn't just put it down to variance.

digiman

A lot of it depends on your style as well, I would play a very very aggressive style and this can lead to losing a lot of buyins very quickly or winning them back very quickly too. I was going to post up my graph in BB won earlier and I think it was 8/9 20bi+ downswings in about 350k hands

lucky-colm

two tables is my max but generally its only 1 table
in tournament play the game goes through different stages and it is important to recognise at what stage the tournament is at and adjust your play accordingly.
therefore i find that any more than 2 tables and you loose track of what table is at what stage..

zuutroy

Mullicker wrote: »

The lower your winrate the greater your variance from my understanding, not a matter of your style.

This is a common misconception.

digiman wrote: »

A lot of it depends on your style as well, I would play a very very aggressive style and this can lead to losing a lot of buyins very quickly or winning them back very quickly too. I was going to post up my graph in BB won earlier and I think it was 8/9 20bi+ downswings in about 350k hands

Whats your standard deviation?

TommyGunne

Mullicker wrote: »

The lower your winrate the greater your variance from my understanding

This is obv wrong. This has been discussed loads of times. The greater your variance the greater your variance. There is little to no real correlation between winrates and variance. There is a very real correlation between playing styles and variance eg digiman is a variance machine. You are getting confused with P($ won over sample < 0). This is not variance.

Another way to understand it would be to imagine a guy (lets call him A) with a 50BB/100 winrate, and another with a 0BB/100 winrate (B). If A has a breakeven 100k hands, he's just run 1000 buyins below expectation, but has no downswing. What happens if B runs 1000 buyins below expectation? Has he had worse variance?

Don't confuse variance with P($ won over sample < 0). It can mess a bit with your mind.


My SD is 44.5BB/100, or 89bb/100. Would be interesting to see others, cos I think this is actually pretty small!

suilen

zuutroy wrote: »

Whats your standard deviation?

Is this just one of HM's stats, have never really looked at it?
I'll stick up a graph later but I have 5-7 20 buyin downswings and probably about the same ammount of upswings in my last 300k hands too, i presume this is standard enough.

zuutroy

Yeah its in HM.

TG yours is about standard, maybe a little over avg in fact.

Mullicker

Another way to understand it would be to imagine a guy (lets call him A) with a 50BB/100 winrate, and another with a 0BB/100 winrate (B). If A has a breakeven 100k hands, he's just run 1000 buyins below expectation, but has no downswing. What happens if B runs 1000 buyins below expectation? Has he had worse variance?

Don't confuse variance with P($ won over sample < 0). It can mess a bit with your mind.

Ok i think i follow now.

lucky-colm

Mullicker wrote: »

Ok i think i follow now.

:D:D:D:D