UK driver caught speeding in my car...

farva

My uncle(UK resident and driving licience) was over from the UK last weekend and was out driving in my car on Saturday night, he ended up getting flashed by a gatso van and the fixed penalty notice arrived today (shockingly fast!). Does anyone know how I deal with this situation? Do I send back the form on his behalf with the fine paid and his licience details? I cant sign his signature though. Do I waiit for it to go to court? Has anyone been in this situation before? I assume that the main thing the Gaurds want is the €80.

Cheers.

PCPhoto

farva wrote: »

My uncle(UK resident and driving licience) was over from the UK last weekend and was out driving in my car on Saturday night, he ended up getting flashed by a gatso van and the fixed penalty notice arrived today (shockingly fast!). Does anyone know how I deal with this situation? Do I send back the form on his behalf with the fine paid and his licience details? I cant sign his signature though. Do I waiit for it to go to court? Has anyone been in this situation before? I assume that the main thing the Gaurds want is the €80.

Cheers.

why not tell your uncle he owes you €80 for speeding - he pays you and you pay the fine.

for the best advice on the matter - bring the information you have to your local garda station and ask for advice there on what to do.

TestTransmission

farva wrote: »

My uncle(UK resident and driving licience) was over from the UK last weekend and was out driving in my car on Saturday night, he ended up getting flashed by a gatso van and the fixed penalty notice arrived today (shockingly fast!). Does anyone know how I deal with this situation? Do I send back the form on his behalf with the fine paid and his licience details? I cant sign his signature though. Do I waiit for it to go to court? Has anyone been in this situation before? I assume that the main thing the Gaurds want is the €80.

Cheers.

Good way to avoid the points

Hooch

Section 107 requires the registered owner to nominate the driver. If you had read the notice you would have seen this on the back page.

Fill out the 107 requirement and the notice will be re printed and sent to the UK.

farva

Thanks for the replies guys. The €80 isnt the problem, he'll pay me that - I just dont want the unearned points!

nice guy always wrote: »

Section 107 requires the registered owner to nominate the driver. If you had read the notice you would have seen this on the back page.

Fill out the 107 requirement and the notice will be re printed and sent to the UK.

That seems a bit easy though? Whats to stop anyone doing that or giving a fake address? And if he chooses not to pay it in the UK are the Guards going to pursue him in the UK?

Hooch

farva wrote: »

That seems a bit easy though? Whats to stop anyone doing that or giving a fake address? And if he chooses not to pay it in the UK are the Guards going to pursue him in the UK?

Thats the law......just remember that it is a photo and while you only see your reg plate the full photo shows the whole car annd is of good enough quality to pick out the driver.

There is several cases going through the court at present for making a false decleration.....a very serious offence.

Seth Brundle

maybe it was the OPs identical twin uncle!

CiniO

nice guy always wrote: »

Thats the law......just remember that it is a photo and while you only see your reg plate the full photo shows the whole car annd is of good enough quality to pick out the driver.

There is several cases going through the court at present for making a false decleration.....a very serious offence.

So you're getting just the letter with reg numer, but they have a full picture in the office showing driver... Thats what you said?


In this case, thats a bit unfair.
If I got a letter saying, that someone was speeding in my car 2 weeks ago, I might not remember who was driving at this time.
This makes it incredably easy to make false statement then.
Why don't they show you a full picture, so you can recognise the face?

CiniO

PCPhoto wrote: »

why not tell your uncle he owes you €80 for speeding - he pays you and you pay the fine.

Because he'll get penalty points then.
Why shoud he get points, that he doesn't deserve.

halpin17

See if the guards are bothered to go track down ur uncle in the uk for €80 they won't so just sit back relax and do nothing

Hooch

CiniO wrote: »

So you're getting just the letter with reg numer, but they have a full picture in the office showing driver... Thats what you said?


In this case, thats a bit unfair.
If I got a letter saying, that someone was speeding in my car 2 weeks ago, I might not remember who was driving at this time.
This makes it incredably easy to make false statement then.
Why don't they show you a full picture, so you can recognise the face?

To save on paper. It is a picture of the reg plate only added to the FCPS notice on the top right hand corner. If you want to see the full picture you can request it through the local Supts office but your obligation to pay within the 56 total days still stands.

halpin17 wrote: »

See if the guards are bothered to go track down ur uncle in the uk for €80 they won't so just sit back relax and do nothing

Great advice there.......just sit back and do nothing....sure all that can happen is AGS will prosecuted YOU for speeding and failing to nominate a driver!!

eth0_

If your uncle is insured in the UK on his own car, fully comp....does that cover him to drive cars outside the UK?

I don't think it does...

Just fill out the form that declares he was driving the car. He will only have to pay the fine anyway as he cannot get Irish points on his UK licence.

CiniO

eth0_ wrote: »

If your uncle is insured in the UK on his own car, fully comp....does that cover him to drive cars outside the UK?

I don't think it does...

Very good question.
I was wondering if this works other way.
Let say I have full comp insurance in Ireland, which lets me drive other cars.
It states that car cannot be registered on my name or on the name of my employer. It also has to be car (not van).
But it doesn't say, it has to be registered in Ireland.

Does it mean, I can drive cars registered abroad?

halpin17

Just say clearly this isn't me driving the car it's my uncle here are his contact details and then ur uncle can do what he pleases don't pay is my suggestion

CiniO

Leon Colossal Tombstone wrote: »

You cannot get points on a UK licence in Ireland. I got myself a UK licence for that very reason !!!

Seems you didn't read throughly.
His uncle has UK licence. He himself, has Irish licence.

BTW thats the backdoor for anyone in EU to avoid penalty points.
Just get licence from different country that you are actualy living in, and you can't get any points on it.

Probably not for too long, because european commission is already working on it.

ballsymchugh

eth0_ wrote: »

If your uncle is insured in the UK on his own car, fully comp....does that cover him to drive cars outside the UK?

I don't think it does...

it does, well... my one does. fully comp has a 60 day european green card usually. it depends on the insurer.
if you nominate your uncle, they're very unlikely to chase it up. there are stories every few months about cooperation to make points transfer to another countries licenses but it hasn't come off yet. the last time i heard it was due to start on april 1st 2009.
it works the opposite too, getting a letter in the uk will not be chased up if an irish address is nominated.

Clare_Guy

nice guy always wrote: »

Thats the law......just remember that it is a photo and while you only see your reg plate the full photo shows the whole car annd is of good enough quality to pick out the driver.

There is several cases going through the court at present for making a false decleration.....a very serious offence.

I call lies... Do you have anything to support or confirm your ridiculous claims that the full photo shows the driver or that there are cases pending against people for having given ''false declarations''? I'm guessing no because I've seen these photo's and you cannot see the driver, therefore there cannot any cases you describe. Typical ''afaik''and ''iirc'' drivel that gets posted here all the time...

CiniO

CiniO wrote: »

Seems you didn't read throughly.
His uncle has UK licence. He himself, has Irish licence.

BTW thats the backdoor for anyone in EU to avoid penalty points.
Just get licence from different country that you are actualy living in, and you can't get any points on it.

Probably not for too long, because european commission is already working on it.

Sorry I just scanned through the thread I have edited my original post(before I say your post pointing out my mistake:o)

eth0_ wrote: »

If your uncle is insured in the UK on his own car, fully comp....does that cover him to drive cars outside the UK?

I don't think it does...

It varies with insurer but I was covered to drive cars in the UK when I was insured 3rd party with Quinn here.

Which brings me on to my next question, why do people think you need fully comp insurance for the driving other cars extension. Any company I have been with covered driving other cars when I had a 3rd party policy.

CiniO

ballsymchugh wrote: »

it does, well... my one does. fully comp has a 60 day european green card usually. it depends on the insurer.

You are sayin about different thing.
Your insurer allows you to take your car to europe for 60 days.
But it doesn't mean you can drive cars registered in foreign country.

Just to clarify.
There is no need for greencard if you are travelling within EU.
Greencard used to be a confirmation of your insurance while abroad. But they changed european law, and now you don't need it.

Also your insurer gives you 60 days cover for the EU, but I suppose, it's because you've got comprehensive cover.

Obligatory third party cover is valid all over EU for the whole duration of your insurance policy. And it's not up to insurer, but european and irish insurance law, makes them to provide such a cover.
With additional cover (fire, theft, comprehensive) it is up to the insurer if you'll get EU cover, and for how long. But you still get unlimited third party cover within EU anyway.

CiniO

Leon Colossal Tombstone wrote: »

It varies with insurer but I was covered to drive cars in the UK when I was insured 3rd party with Quinn here.

Was it just UK or any EU country?

Which brings me on to my next question, why do people think you need fully comp insurance for the driving other cars extension. Any company I have been with covered driving other cars when I had a 3rd party policy.

In UK usually you get grant for driving other cars just with comprehensive policies. Thats probably where the story came from.

Anyway in Ireland it rather depends of your driving history and no claims bonus. With my last insurance thay asked me to pay additional fee for this option. Anyway I went for it, because the fee was something like 3 quid.

Our man in Havana

Leon Colossal Tombstone wrote: »

Just fill out the form that declares he was driving the car. He will only have to pay the fine anyway as he cannot get Irish points on his UK licence.

halpin17 wrote: »

Just say clearly this isn't me driving the car it's my uncle here are his contact details and then ur uncle can do what he pleases don't pay is my suggestion

Indeed and if the Gardaí do send a notice to the UK the uncle is free to bin it and nothing will happen to him.

tossy

Clare_Guy wrote: »

I call lies... Do you have anything to support or confirm your ridiculous claims that the full photo shows the driver or that there are cases pending against people for having given ''false declarations''? I'm guessing no because I've seen these photo's and you cannot see the driver, therefore there cannot any cases you describe. Typical ''afaik''and ''iirc'' drivel that gets posted here all the time...

I think his avatar might be a pointer towards him having something to support his 'ridiculous' claims :rolleyes:

stealthyspeeder

Could one of the guards answer this question

If that UK driver pays the fine, obviously he cant have the points put on his license. Is there a "ghost" R.O.I. license created for him and the points are put on that? (so that if he was caught and fessed up to 6 speeding offenses he would be effectively banned from driving?)

Is this a rummour or is it true? (linkys if you can, and its true please!)

cormie

nice guy always wrote: »

Thats the law......just remember that it is a photo and while you only see your reg plate the full photo shows the whole car annd is of good enough quality to pick out the driver.

There is several cases going through the court at present for making a false decleration.....a very serious offence.

I guess this isn't the case with fixed cameras which generally snap you from behind? What's to say the UK driver doesn't look extremely like the owner anyway? They wouldn't go to the trouble of paying the mentioned driver on the form a visit to have a look at him I'm guessing

Drummerboy08

Clare_Guy wrote: »

I call lies... Do you have anything to support or confirm your ridiculous claims that the full photo shows the driver or that there are cases pending against people for having given ''false declarations''? I'm guessing no because I've seen these photo's and you cannot see the driver, therefore there cannot any cases you describe. Typical ''afaik''and ''iirc'' drivel that gets posted here all the time...

He's a Garda. HE should know.

Farls

I had the exact same problem about 2 years ago, got letter in the post about speeding over near sligo when it was my uncle driving he was over for a funeral from the UK. I went to the garda station where the fine was issued from and spoke to the sergeant there and told him the story, he wrote my uncles name down on the back of the form and I couldn't remember the address so he just wrote 'UK' on it and sent me on my merry way. The uncle nor myself ever heard a thing since about it.

As for insurance if a vehicle is open driver then anyone with a full licence over the age of 25 can drive using your insurance.

I find that notion of the picture showing the driver and cases pending hard to believe also.

godskitchen

Slightly off topic here, can anyone tell me what happens to a UK driver who is banned here?

Sizzler

The old "my uncle was over from the UK" trick, works every time

R.O.R

Sizzler wrote: »

The old "my uncle was over from the UK" trick, works every time

I once had a van driver who's sister was over from Mexico City for the week ,took his branded company focus van out and got caught speeding. Poor fella, took him a couple of days to rememeber who was driving and get her home address in Mexico :rolleyes:

craichoe

Sizzler wrote: »

The old "my uncle was over from the UK" trick, works every time

Most of the time it does, but the one time your caught giving a false declaration you will get proper f*cked

kida

craichoe wrote: »

Most of the time it does, but the one time your caught giving a false declaration you will get proper f*cked

what is the punishment for it?

dudara

You've lied on an official document and you can be prosecuted in court for false declaration.

It's a system based on good faith.

Clare_Guy

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

He's a Garda. HE should know.

You'd think so , but he also said...

nice guy always wrote: »

If you want to see the full picture you can request it through the local Supts office

when the actual procedure is...

Photograph Requests

This facility is only available for camera speeding detections (i.e. Fixed Charge Notice where reference number begins S00….). The applicable notices are identified by a cropped photograph of the registration number of the vehicle on the top right of the FCN, just below the reference number of the notice. If you want to get an enlarged copy of the photograph, the request must be made in writing, by fax to 353 504 59844, by post to the Fixed Charge Processing Office, Thurles, Co. Tipperary or by e-mail to npo@garda.ie. The photograph will then be issued by post. Such requests can only be processed for the registered owner or the nominated driver.

The primary purpose of photographs is to identify the offending vehicle, and not the driver. The identification of the driver is the responsibility and legal requirement placed on the registered owner of the vehicle. These photographs are not used to identify drivers, but in some cases, this may be possible. Care must be taken to nominate the correct driver in each instance.

Henry Ford III

This is getting a little tedious.

We seem to be becoming a nation of scammers. Must be harder times I suppose?

What next? My cousin trusted a fart and ruined my new strides?

Clare_Guy

Henry Ford III wrote: »

This is getting a little tedious.

We seem to be becoming a nation of scammers. Must be harder times I suppose?

What next? My cousin trusted a fart and ruined my news strides?

It's just another example from Ireland of poorly thought out, rushed law being brought onto the statute books. It's entirely right that laws should be tested.

craichoe

Clare_Guy wrote: »

It's just another example from Ireland of poorly thought out, rushed law being brought onto the statute books. It's entirely right that laws should be tested.

No really poorly thought out, its pretty common, same system is in place in the Netherlands.

galwaytt

Clare_Guy wrote: »

I call lies... Do you have anything to support or confirm your ridiculous claims that the full photo shows the driver or that there are cases pending against people for having given ''false declarations''? I'm guessing no because I've seen these photo's and you cannot see the driver, therefore there cannot any cases you describe. Typical ''afaik''and ''iirc'' drivel that gets posted here all the time...

Clare-Guy - take a frickin' pill. I am now speaking for a position of FACT. My car got photo'd, the notice came, c/w no plate pic - and I was nowhere near the place, so got on to them, and they posted out the full pic.

Yep, sure as rain is rain, there I...........WASN'T

However, Mrs GalwayTT most assuredly WAS, and now wears two points for the pleasure

Heh, women drivers, eh ?

cormie

Why don't they just include the full photo? Or even have it online and include a pin in the letter if it's too much costs with ink? Would probably actually STOP people trying to scam if they saw themselves driving it in the photo so would therefore decrease the non paid fines from non residents of the country who know they can get away with it.

GigaByte

craichoe wrote: »

Most of the time it does, but the one time your caught giving a false declaration you will get proper f*cked

It almost happened to my sister but she stuck by her guns and the Gards just gave up in the end.

GigaByte

cormie wrote: »

Why don't they just include the full photo? Or even have it online and include a pin in the letter if it's too much costs with ink? Would probably actually STOP people trying to scam if they saw themselves driving it in the photo so would therefore decrease the non paid fines from non residents of the country who know they can get away with it.

It would cost billions to re-train them to do this!

Gran Hermano

cormie wrote: »

Why don't they just include the full photo? Or even have it online and include a pin in the letter if it's too much costs with ink? Would probably actually STOP people trying to scam if they saw themselves driving it in the photo so would therefore decrease the non paid fines from non residents of the country who know they can get away with it.

Fancy trying to explain to your wife/gf who the female passenger in the photo is?

cormie

Gran Hermano wrote: »

Fancy trying to explain to your wife/gf who the female passenger in the photo is?

Well combined with my honesty and the fact I'd often have customers in the van with me, that's no problem I can see why others would object though :mad:

lynchie

Clare_Guy wrote: »

I call lies... Do you have anything to support or confirm your ridiculous claims that the full photo shows the driver or that there are cases pending against people for having given ''false declarations''? I'm guessing no because I've seen these photo's and you cannot see the driver, therefore there cannot any cases you describe. Typical ''afaik''and ''iirc'' drivel that gets posted here all the time...

I was in court before waiting on my case to be called up. There was a woman in front of me who had filled in on her form that her dad was driving the car. She must have sent it off hoping he would get the points. Anyway.. It ends up in court and the Garda had put evidence forward to the judge that he believed the woman was driving. The garda showed the picture to the judge who then showed it to the two of them to confirm it was the father in the car. Obv the woman hadnt seen the picture before that day. Didnt see the picture but the judge was suggesting that the image was of her and not her father and to come clean. She was asked to discuss it with her solicitor. In the end she admitted that she was driving and was fined heavily and given 4 points. The judge gave the father a good going over too for making a false declaration but allowed him off with a warning.

CiniO

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

Could one of the guards answer this question

If that UK driver pays the fine, obviously he cant have the points put on his license. Is there a "ghost" R.O.I. license created for him and the points are put on that? (so that if he was caught and fessed up to 6 speeding offenses he would be effectively banned from driving?)

Is this a rummour or is it true? (linkys if you can, and its true please!)

Thing with ghost licence on which you get points is true.
But this point doesn't mean anything, until that person will swap his licence to Irish licence.

Example.
Someone with French license drives in Ireland. During 1 year he gets 6 points. They cannot be written to French licence, so they are written to ghost Irish Licence. Then if the person will swap his French licence to Irish licence, he will get fresh Irish licence with 6 points on it.

Example 2.
Someone with German licence drives in Ireland. He collects 25 points during 1 year. He never intende to change his licence to Irish one. In this case he can still drive, and collect even more points on his ghost Irish licence.

cormie

Do the points on the ghost license expire after 2 years as they do with active licenses?

CiniO

cormie wrote: »

Do the points on the ghost license expire after 2 years as they do with active licenses?

No.
Points expire after 3 years. Both on ghost licence and normal licence.

cormie

Ah, I thought it was 2 Not that I'd need to know or anything though :P

L1011

CiniO wrote: »

Was it just UK or any EU country?

Quinn treat Ireland, the UK, Channel Islands and IOM as your "home" market so I'm guessing it was just the UK. If on fully comp it applies for 365/6 days a year in the UK (+CI/IOM) rather than 90 days then dropping to TP only in Europe.

MagicMarker

Farls wrote: »

As for insurance if a vehicle is open driver then anyone with a full licence over the age of 25 can drive using your insurance.

Can you, or anyone else back this up?

Thoie

eth0_ wrote: »

If your uncle is insured in the UK on his own car, fully comp....does that cover him to drive cars outside the UK?

I don't think it does...

No idea about going in that direction, but a few years ago I was insured first with Quinn and then with Allianz. At the time I was visiting a friend in the UK relatively regularly. With both insurance companies I phoned and ask if my comp insurance would cover me for driving a UK reg car, owned by someone else, in the UK.

Both companies checked my policy and said that was fine, and I got them to send me a letter saying "Thoie's covered by our insurance to drive a UK reg car in the UK" (roughly). I used keep that tucked in with my driving license, just in case! One of them charged me €20 to write the letter, the other sent it for free.