Lucas "fu*king" Leiva

Mr Alan

this lad at any given time seems to be being discussed in a few threads, figured we may as well have the definative discussion.

imo this lad is a victim of one of the worst things about the modern game, he has been torn to pieces by pundits in the early stages of his career in a new country & subsequently they choose to make him the scape goat whenever anything goes wrong with Liverpool as they are too lazy or ****ing stupid to realise they were wrong.

he made some mistakes, some bad mistakes in his early career, but since then he has always improved & has been among the best players for Liverpool so far this season (not that that really says much).

When relied upon he has always delivered the goods, in his league debut for crying out loud-against Everton in Goodison & chasing the game-Rafa took off Steven Gerrard much to peoples astonishment...the young brazilian stepped forward & came on the replace him. Within a few minutes, he had a shot cleared off the line with Nevilles hand & the subsequent peno was converted & we won the game. What a way to make your entrance.

he then proceeded to drift in & out of the team & not do too well, rarely poor, but very very average....this was compounded by a couple of silly fouls etc, the anfield "faithful" even boo'd him on an occassion or two.....but he kept his head down & kept working. comes back into the side for a few league games, serves up great performances against Newcastle (his pass for Gerrards goal was one of the best i saw from anyone last season)& Bolton for example.

His team mates praised him for the work he does for the team & his ability. Season goes on & he starts playing a little more regularly, clearly gains confidence.

fans start to get off his back...

Started both games against Inter Milan in the CL when we went on to knock them out winning home & away.

Started against Chelsea in Stamford Bridge in the classic CL quarter final last year, put in an excellent performance & scored.

Started against Utd when they were demolished at Old Trafford last year. Started against Utd this season when once again they were totally dominated in Anfield.

Excellent games this season against Lyon,Stoke,Birmingham,Utd,Hull off the top of my head....yet still, because of some funny quotes from Eammon Dunphy people think he is an abomination, an awful footballer.

Absolute infuriating bollox. Dunphy is ****ing clueless, this is the same fella who claimed last year that as the RTE panels expert on Spanish football that Athletico were the dark horses for the comp, they proceeded to be knocked out by Liverpool & he did a 180 on that, going through their team line up stated that Maxi Rodriguez is nothing more than a half decent journey man......wtf?! honestly, the guy has no clue & people are all the dumber for thinking anything he says holds any weight.

imo Lucas is an extremely talented young player who is improving all the time, has a great attitude & loads of ability. for 5.5m or watever was paid, he has already proven to be a great buy & he is now firmly a fan favourite as demonstrated by the standing ovation he recd when coming off on monday night after yet another very good personal performance.

his only crime seems to be that he is not Xabi Alonso....well **** me, that ain't much of a crime.

sorry about the rant, just gets on my tits.

mayordenis

He's 2 days younger than me.

~Rebel~

I have images of a sleeping Fink suddenly springing wide awake in a cold sweat feeling an uncontrollable unexplainable urge to get to her computer.

DM_7

What exactly are you asking?

I'm not being cheeky just not sure what you are expecting in reply!

Paul Tergat

Mr Alan wrote: »

figured we may as well have the definative discussion.

lol, good luck with that.

He's a squad player who will come in and do a decent job when asked. Every big club needs them.

PCPhoto

not a big Lucas fan myself ..... he's been a decent performer but for me he doesnt have the physical presence to perform consistantly in the premierleague (all in good time I suppose)

his passing is pretty good but gets pushed off the ball a bit too much for me.

everdead.ie

Too much talking not enough performing for me on the pitch

Eire-Dearg

Here here.

Mr Alan

DM-ICE wrote: »

What exactly are you asking?

I'm not being cheeky just not sure what you are expecting in reply!

just trying to focus the discussion of him to one place.

PCPhoto wrote: »

not a big Lucas fan myself ..... he's been a decent performer but for me he doesnt have the physical presence to perform consistantly in the premierleague (all in good time I suppose)

his passing is pretty good but gets pushed off the ball a bit too much for me.

the physical aspect is one of the things that he has improved on most imo, numerous times this season i've seen him compete with much more physical midfielders than him both in tackles on the floor & in the air & come off as the winner.

Jesus Wept

I'd prefer a Voronin thread.

mink_man

is that not craig bellmay in the pic? :pac:

~Rebel~

Mr Alan wrote: »

just trying to focus the discussion of him to one place.



the physical aspect is one of the things that he has improved on most imo, numerous times this season i've seen him compete with much more physical midfielders than him both in tackles on the floor & in the air & come off as the winner.

aye, he's much stronger now then when he joined. If anything one of his weak points is that he can give away silly fouls by using too much strength when trying to unsettle players on the ball, a bit of restraint might see him give away less silly fouls for barging.

dannydiamond

everdead.ie wrote: »

Too much talking not enough performing for me on the pitch

Talking? He's performed plenty imo.

Tusky

I was never a big fan of Lucas and was unsure if he would come good. However, he has worked really hard and particularly in the last 10 games he has started to impress me. He actually has quite a good range of passing, something that was lacking from his game initially. He played some lovely direct forward passes against Birmingham for example.

Hes quite strong on the ball, good in the air and has great stamina. He also has a fantastic attitude.

Needs to improve on his shooting and could do without giving away so many free kicks in dangerous areas.

Overall, definitely worth the money paid, a v.good squad player and may develop into something more.

whatawaster

Alan i know you mean well, but why???

Mr Alan

everdead.ie wrote: »

Too much talking not enough performing for me on the pitch

too much talking not enough performing on the pitch...picking JUST massive games..

Inter Milan CL both legs.
Man Utd at Old Trafford
Man Utd at Anfield
Chelsea Stamford Bridge quarter final
Lyon away in the CL this year

not to mention that he has been our best midfielder this season quite comfortably outperforming Mascherano to the extent that a lot of Liverpool fans feel he is deserving of keeping his place on current form when Aquilani emerges.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

dannydiamond

whatawaster wrote: »

Alan i know you mean well, but why???

I'm guessing to keep it out of other threads so much and let people vent/praise here rather than every single thread related to Liverpool regurgitating the same old Lucas stuff?

Paleface

You could compile a similar profile for most players, singling out the good that they have done and ignoring the rest. At the end of the day its the complete picture that makes any footballer.

He's not as bad as most people think or he wouldn't be playing for Liverpool on a regular basis.

But at the same time I don't think an in form Lucas is the answer to their current dilemma.

dannydiamond

Paleface wrote: »

But at the same time I don't think an in form Lucas is the answer to their current dilemma.

The club has no other option atm.

monkey9

He's been playing well this season. At times, i feel the game can pass him by, but he has been steadily improving and gaining in confidence.
People just keep repeating themselves with their criticism and can't seem to evolve their opinions of him in tandem with his progress!!

Mr Alan

everdead.ie wrote: »

But at the same time I don't think an in form Lucas is the answer to their current dilemma.

this is the thing, no one is claiming he is. however, there is certain clowns who seem to think that he is virtually the cause of the dilemma. a couple of regulars in the Liverpool thread constantly abuse him & claim he is not fit to wear the jersey, even after how well he has done this season, its unbelievable quite frankly.

all anyone is saying is that he is a good player who is doing a very good job for us at the minute in difficult circumstances after being thrown in at the deep end.

DM_7

mink_man wrote: »

is that not craig bellmay in the pic? :pac:

At first I thaough it was Lucas Chadwick but Bellamy fits better.

For what its worth I think he is average for the type of player that plays at a top side.

He has the potential to be well above that level based on how much he has improved in his position and adapted to liverpools style.

I can understand Liverpool fasn supporting him. They see him play each week and want to see the good things he does.

In many cases fans of other teams forget the good things he does and will only see the few bad things, jump all over them and say he is ****e

CHD

So now there will be 4 threads of people disagreeing about him. Thanks!

everdead.ie

dannydiamond wrote: »

Talking? He's performed plenty imo.

IMO just an opinion but he's always giving out looking for cards for players on the pitch and i haven't seen anything myself to think he's good enough for liverpool

flahavaj

*Stabs eyeballs with compass*

You should be banned for life for this Al.

Decent squad player, harshly singled out, improving over time.

/thread.

dannydiamond

Lucas has been chucked in at the deep end so to speak because of the current situation at the club.
I'm pretty sure that Rafas plans weren't for him to be in this situation relatively early in his career.
He's 22 years old lads,in the middle of a huge crisis at one of the biggest clubs in world football! He's handling it all pretty damn well imo and getting better as the games go by.
It must be very tough on him and I think he's handling it all beautifully.

He has come in to fill the boots of Xavi Alonso which was never meant to happen,thats a bloody big ask, He came to Liverpool as a very talented youngster and has progressed very well as far as I can see,ideally he wouldn't be in this position but he is and has done all that has been asked of him. My guess is that Rafa is very happy with him and that should be a massive compliment for a young lad coming into that position.

I think he'll be at the club for a very long time,and I hope he is tbh.

Mr Alan

always giving out to ref looking for cards for players?!

wow.

just when i thought i couldn't hear a new false accusation to be thrown at him!

i think i may have seen him do that once or twice is his time at Liverpool, he is not even the Liverpool central midfielder who moans the most.

strange criticism.

dannydiamond

everdead.ie wrote: »

IMO just an opinion but he's always giving out looking for cards for players on the pitch and i haven't seen anything myself to think he's good enough for liverpool

Put a player from our current squad in that position for our next game for me?

mayordenis

everdead.ie wrote: »

IMO just an opinion but he's always giving out looking for cards for players on the pitch and i haven't seen anything myself to think he's good enough for liverpool

I can't say he doesn't but I've never seen it myself - I'll look out for that, it's something I hate.

Kess73

Lucas Lucas Lucas.

Hardly a week goes by without some massive overblown debate about him in the Liverpool superthread.

Now he has a thread of his own. Rarely have I seen a player divide the fans of one club so much. From what I can see in the superthread over the last few months is three groups.

Those who think Lucas is somewhere between very good and brilliant, and will fight to the death to defend his name.

Those who think that Lucas is muck and seem to pounce on every error the kid makes, and some that he does not make. This lot will fight to the bitter end to try and get everyone to agree that Lucas is the worst player in the world. EVER.

Then there is the third group, that I would fall into. Who see that Lucas is a decent squad player, a bit raw at times. Not a great player, but good enough for the job he is being asked to do at present, and nowhere near being a bad player. But he is a player that has improved, and one that I will give credit to for never hiding, regardless of how he is playing that day.

What has not helped Lucas is the fact that a lot of the big names at the club simply have not turned up when they have played this year. Of course the fact that Alonso is gone has only made the job Lucas got that bit more difficult as Lucas could not hope to play like Alonso, and could never hope to set a game's tempo like Alonso could. The flipside of that is if Alonso had never left, then the whole Lucas debate would most likely not have happened and neither would this thread, as Lucas would not have displaced Alonso in the team, not a chance as an Alonso at 70% would get into the Liverpool centre of midfield before Lucas and before Mascherano for that matter.


What I do hope though is that this thread can become the new battleground for Lucas debates, and that they can be moved from the superthread in the future should they pop up there.

I reckon fans of other clubs would not believe how often the Lucas issue gets discussed and how circular the arguments are over him.

Mr Alan

i hate it too.

Mascherano does it ALOT!

Lucas, no.

Mr Alan

Kess73 wrote: »

Those who think Lucas is somewhere between very good and brilliant, and will fight to the death to defend his name.

see, i dont think anyone thinks that.

you probably think that because of how often i defend him, but i dont, i think he is a young player between decent & very good.

Kess73

Mr Alan wrote: »

always giving out to ref looking for cards for players?!

wow.

just when i thought i couldn't hear a new false accusation to be thrown at him!

i think i may have seen him do that once or twice is his time at Liverpool, he is not even the Liverpool central midfielder who moans the most.

strange criticism.

He has done it a lot more than once or twice, and that is just for this seaon alone, but he is nowhere near as bad as Mascherano for doing it.

mayordenis

His middle name is Pezzini btw.

cson

Does every Liverpool issue/player/manager/etc deserve its own thread these days? :pac:

wandatowell

Was this guy the Brazil U-21 captain??

blackbetty69

cson wrote: »

Does every Liverpool issue/player/manager/etc deserve its own thread these days? :pac:

it sure does!:pac:

Kess73

cson wrote: »

Does every Liverpool issue/player/manager/etc deserve its own thread these days? :pac:

Yep, there will be a thread soon about Chris the steward, and whether he should start wearing fake tan on matchdays, as his orange stewards jacket makes his face look very pasty.

dannydiamond

Kess73 wrote: »

Yep, there will be a thread soon about Chris the steward, and whether he should start wearing fake tan on matchdays, as his orange stewards jacket makes his face look very pasty.

Better a dedicated thread to let people vent rather than every other fkin thread getting derailed don't you think?

everdead.ie

dannydiamond wrote: »

Put a player from our current squad in that position for our next game for me?

Id slip Gerrard back there till aquilani is match fit and start ngog who I think could be quite good. I think it would just add more balance to the side and Gerrard does frequently move around quite a lot because of his versatility

tdv

He's alrite but he's no Darren Fletcher or anything. :rolleyes:

m@cc@

I think the issue is not the how good Lucas is, that's apparent. It's that with Liverpool in one of their worst runs ever, that this guy is making it into their starting 11.

He may well turn into an excellent player but at the moment, no matter how hard he's trying, a player of that quality is not going to pull them out of this rut.

Melion

In my opinion, anybody who cant see the improvement in Lucas this year(since last December) doesnt even warrant being replied to in this conversation. As Alan said, he was very raw at the start of last season but certainly improved over the first few months of the season, then he gave away a few stupid penalties and free kicks last season and his confidence was shot to pieces, he was loudly booed last February and March(very loudly at the Sunderland game last March). How many 21 year olds would have been able to put up with that so well?

Since then he turned it around again, he was absolutely immense in the demolition of United at Old Trafford and was brilliant through til the end of the season. He was our best player in pre-season this summer and definitely carried it through into this season. He warrants his place in our starting 11 ahead of Mascherano(incidentally, my favourite LFC player), he has been our best player this season IMO. I would love to see the stats on how often he loses possesion because its not very much. Everyone gives out about him playing sideways balls and "stupid" 5-10 yard passes, he isnt Xabi fúcking Alonso, he isn't going to play 50 yard balls every time he gets the ball. He played plenty of dangerous balls last Monday night, including a 40 yard pass right on to Yossi's toe and a 30 yard pass perfectly to Johno. He won a lot of headers too which against a team like B'Ham is very impressive. I was at the game and was delighted to see and hear the reception he got when he went off the pitch. He has definitely gotten stronger and is no longer being easily pushed off the ball.

Everything about his game has improved this season, he is starting to believe in his own ability. Thats half the battle because there is no doubt he is a talented player, his confidence was knocked after the Everton game last season but he worked through it. As his confidence builds we will see him get even better, the rest of the team are starting to believe in him aswell which is good to see. I think all he needs is one goal and once he gets it, they will start to fly in for him. He picks up some great positions and its great to see a midfielder getting ahead of our forwards which he does a lot.

But lets not allow facts to get in the way of some mindless drivel. Dunphy says he's shít then he must be, the same clown who said Ronaldo was terrible at United and finally, after years of denying it, had to eat his words.

LuckyLloyd

Kess73 wrote: »

Then there is the third group, that I would fall into. Who see that Lucas is a decent squad player, a bit raw at times. Not a great player, but good enough for the job he is being asked to do at present, and nowhere near being a bad player. But he is a player that has improved, and one that I will give credit to for never hiding, regardless of how he is playing that day.

Perfect.

Fromvert

Decent young player who has more good then bad moments and is always improving, but the bad moments are the ones people remember.

Has been better the Masch this season but a lot of people don't wait for Masch to make a mistake so they can jump on it but they will Lucas.

But Alan, another Liverpool thread to dominate the from page.

This thread will be 20 pages long by 4 tomorrow, thats about the time I'll get to look at it again. And the sh't I'll have to shift through.

**** you Al:mad:

shatners basoon

Fromvert wrote: »

But Alan, another Liverpool thread to dominate the from page.

This thread will be 20 pages long by 4 tomorrow, thats about the time I'll get to look at it again. And the sh't I'll have to shift through.

**** you Al:mad:

Then don't read it! There's no need to attack someone just because they started a thread, it's not like it occupies an annoyingly large space in your living room. This is the internet for god's sake!

And for the record i think that Lucas has improved a lot. He's not going to set the world alight any time soon but, given time, could make for quite the complete midfielder provided he continues to work hard and improve on his weaknesses, which are still quite evident.

jank

Who really gives a $hit (apart from precious liverpool fans). Squad player, nothing more, nothing less but would not make the first XI for any other top four team...


Can we get on with non-liverpool threads now?

pierrot

He`s 22 . He`s quite a good player who has the potential to become a very good player. How many other players his age are playing in CM regularly at the top level? He has a lot of pressure on him, from certain fans and certain sections of the media, but has gone about his job like a model professional.

Bandit12

Quality player who has shut the boo boy's up. Another good Rafa signing.

kida

He does a decent job but IMO at home against most teams he and Mascherano should not both start, maybe that the plan but they are too similar and becuase of this Mascherano has tried long passes which more often than not have not worked.