Lucas "fu*king" Leiva

Peyton Manning

SlickRic wrote: »

to be fair though, it isn't one.

it was created to, i think;

1) put all the Lucas related sh*te that compiled in the Liverpool thread somewhere.

2) give everyone a chance, again without derailing the main superthread, a chance to have their say on a player who seemed to divide players on a ludicrous level.

the main crux of the thread is that he doesn't deserve the controversy he gets, merely because he's, as you say, average enough right now, with the potential to become a very good player. nothing more, nothing less. the mere fact the thread had this much interest, near enough 600 posts now, is ludicrous for such a player.

I thought this was an appreciation thread, if its purpose is to merely re-educate misinformed people, then ill gladly eat some humble pie and apologise. But I still stand by my opinion of him as a player.

Ush1

Archimedes wrote: »

He's equally as over rated as is he is under-rated imo. He's nothing special. I have no problem complimenting Liverpool players - there are some terrific footballers at the club. So far, despite his progression, Lucas is still a long way from being terrific. If Liverpool fans insist on labelling him one of the best players at the club this season, thats just further proof of the awful year they've had and how many other players arent performing.

Not so sure, I think he's generally looked at on the shoddy side and been used as a scape goat by many. Terrific footballers such as Gerrard? Thread becomes even more relevant that he has escaped criticism while Lucas is the whipping boy.

Ush1

Archimedes wrote: »

I thought this was an appreciation thread, if its purpose is to merely re-educate misinformed people, then ill gladly eat some humble pie and apologise. But I still stand by my opinion of him as a player.

Read the op. He constantly refers to Lucas being slated.

SlickRic

Archimedes wrote: »

I thought this was an appreciation thread, if its purpose is to merely re-educate misinformed people, then ill gladly eat some humble pie and apologise. But I still stand by my opinion of him as a player.

i agree with your opinion of him as a player.

you'll have to ask Alan what the original purpose was, but i've always taken it as what i called it as - putting a lot of the sh*te about Lucas somewhere, and trying to work out how good/****e/ordinary he actually is; because it's stupid that a player whose merely been good without being special, could divide people so bloody much.

Peyton Manning

Ush1 wrote: »

Not so sure, I think he's generally looked at on the shoddy side and been used as a scape goat by many. Terrific footballers such as Gerrard? Thread becomes even more relevant that he has escaped criticism while Lucas is the whipping boy.

Even discounting Gerrard, the likes of Mascherano, Reina, Torres and (controversial opinion here) Glen Johnson have been more impressive for Liverpool this season than Lucas IMO.

Ush1

Archimedes wrote: »

Even discounting Gerrard, the likes of Mascherano, Reina, Torres and (controversial opinion here) Glen Johnson have been more impressive for Liverpool this season than Lucas IMO.

Yes but who's been writing any of those players off or singling them out as the weak link?

Again, it's not so much about how great Lucas is, just that alot of criticism is unjustified.

Peyton Manning

Ush1 wrote: »

Yes but who's been writing any of those players off or singling them out as the weak link?

Again, it's not so much about how great Lucas is, just that alot of criticism is unjustified.

Fair enough, I apologise for the rashness of my initial post, should have read the thread through (although Im sure you'll understand my reasons for not wanting to read a 600 post long thread about a Liverpool or Man Utd related subject - you know how they end up!)

Ush1

Archimedes wrote: »

Fair enough, I apologise for the rashness of my initial post, should have read the thread through (although Im sure you'll understand my reasons for not wanting to read a 600 post long thread about a Liverpool or Man Utd related subject - you know how they end up!)

No bother, and I certainly don't blame ya!

Mr Alan

Mr Alan wrote: »

this lad at any given time seems to be being discussed in a few threads, figured we may as well have the definative discussion.

imo this lad is a victim of one of the worst things about the modern game, he has been torn to pieces by pundits in the early stages of his career in a new country & subsequently they choose to make him the scape goat whenever anything goes wrong with Liverpool as they are too lazy or ****ing stupid to realise they were wrong.

he made some mistakes, some bad mistakes in his early career, but since then he has always improved & has been among the best players for Liverpool so far this season (not that that really says much).

When relied upon he has always delivered the goods, in his league debut for crying out loud-against Everton in Goodison & chasing the game-Rafa took off Steven Gerrard much to peoples astonishment...the young brazilian stepped forward & came on the replace him. Within a few minutes, he had a shot cleared off the line with Nevilles hand & the subsequent peno was converted & we won the game. What a way to make your entrance.

he then proceeded to drift in & out of the team & not do too well, rarely poor, but very very average....this was compounded by a couple of silly fouls etc, the anfield "faithful" even boo'd him on an occassion or two.....but he kept his head down & kept working. comes back into the side for a few league games, serves up great performances against Newcastle (his pass for Gerrards goal was one of the best i saw from anyone last season)& Bolton for example.

His team mates praised him for the work he does for the team & his ability. Season goes on & he starts playing a little more regularly, clearly gains confidence.

fans start to get off his back...

Started both games against Inter Milan in the CL when we went on to knock them out winning home & away.

Started against Chelsea in Stamford Bridge in the classic CL quarter final last year, put in an excellent performance & scored.

Started against Utd when they were demolished at Old Trafford last year. Started against Utd this season when once again they were totally dominated in Anfield.

Excellent games this season against Lyon,Stoke,Birmingham,Utd,Hull off the top of my head....yet still, because of some funny quotes from Eammon Dunphy people think he is an abomination, an awful footballer.

Absolute infuriating bollox. Dunphy is ****ing clueless, this is the same fella who claimed last year that as the RTE panels expert on Spanish football that Athletico were the dark horses for the comp, they proceeded to be knocked out by Liverpool & he did a 180 on that, going through their team line up stated that Maxi Rodriguez is nothing more than a half decent journey man......wtf?! honestly, the guy has no clue & people are all the dumber for thinking anything he says holds any weight.

imo Lucas is an extremely talented young player who is improving all the time, has a great attitude & loads of ability. for 5.5m or watever was paid, he has already proven to be a great buy & he is now firmly a fan favourite as demonstrated by the standing ovation he recd when coming off on monday night after yet another very good personal performance.

his only crime seems to be that he is not Xabi Alonso....well **** me, that ain't much of a crime.

sorry about the rant, just gets on my tits.

Here's the op Archi.

Sir Gallagher

Archimedes wrote: »

Even discounting Gerrard, the likes of Mascherano, Reina, Torres and (controversial opinion here) Glen Johnson have been more impressive for Liverpool this season than Lucas IMO.

This is spot on imo Lucas has done well this season, i'm really impressed with his progress and application but he's definately not our best player this season.

mike65

Most improved player this season? (okay its a short list)

d22ontour

Thought this thread came from Mr Alans belief that all pool players are infallible and was making a manjam thead about Lucas to prove his undying love of all things Pool as usual tbh?
I only see what tv shows me and i have to say he has improved a lot this season and infact will win either fans or players player of the year, either that or 2nd to Reina but...
Playing in a system with 2 defensive midfielders with Masch won't ever tell us how good or bad he actually is until we see him with an attacking midfielder beside him in a 442 but i guess Rafas buying and using players out of position won't tell us that anytime soon....
For us on the outside looking at the front 6 it is quite humorous considering the positional sense Rafa has there.He gets lambasted in a central midfield that is so anti-creative all blame is proportioned to him which at times seems unfair.Maybe he isn't good enough to play in a 442 with an AM but we won't know that anytime soon, i suppose, unless Masch leaves/is playing for a move.

Mr Alan

Outstanding game from him today.

MOTM without a doubt for me.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Lucas or Bale??

Handsome Bob

Mr Alan wrote: »

Outstanding game from him today.

MOTM without a doubt for me.

Yeah he was a real warrior in midfield, he broke up a good few plays, fair play to him.

Morzadec

Mr Alan wrote: »

Outstanding game from him today.

MOTM without a doubt for me.

He was great but clearly Torres has to be MOTM

Pighead

Morzadec wrote: »

He was great but clearly Torres has to be MOTM

Would agree with Al here. Thought Lucas was superb today, bar a ten minute spell in the second half. I'd have given him man of the match as well.

Mr Alan

I see what you mean about Torres getting in, and it always happens when someone bags a brace, especially in a big game like today, but Lucas had the better game overall IMO.

kilburn

Did someone teach him how to play over the summer?

monkey9

For me, it was Lucas MOTM!! Torres getting it is pure laziness on behalf of Sky!!

ShamoBuc

Lucas 'Legend' Levia was the MOTM - sky.... well they were just being sky!

MR NINE

I know its a bit of a flawed argument because they play completely different roles but if you swapped their performances Lucas would get motm without a doubt.

People think Lucas should get it because he exceeded expectations moreso than Torres but I think Torres has to be motm, he put in a bigger better performance as a whole.

Credit to them both though, they were both excellent.

mike65

Its all about the haircut, thats when things changed. In the summer of '09 he looked in the mirror and said 'this must change'. He wasn't taking about his hair but he cut it as a signal to himself that he was turning over a new leaf. Then he hit the gym and he hasn't looked back, he did well when he was given licence last season and is now comfortable with himself and within the team, others believe in him.

homolumo

mike65 wrote: »

Its all about the haircut, thats when things changed. In the summer of '09 he looked in the mirror and said 'this must change'. He wasn't taking about his hair but he cut it as a signal to himself that he was turning over a new leaf. Then he hit the gym and he hasn't looked back, he did well when he was given licence last season and is now comfortable with himself and within the team, others believe in him.

You also have to factor in the signing of Poulsen. He makes Lucas look like a world beater and I think the pressure is off him. So Lucas is at Melwood in training watching Poulsen going 'thank ****, someone to take the focus off me'.

Dublin_Gunner

Have to agree, he looked very good today.

Coupled with his performance on Thursday - this could be a sign of a new Lucas.

He's now grown into his role, bags of energy, putting in some good tackles, and generally just causing all sorts of problems for the opposition, not giving them time on the ball.

Lets just hope he keeps it up, and we can safely say our new midfield partnership is Lucas & Meireles.

Mister men

He was fantastic today and has been for the last three games. If he brings this level of performance to the table on a consistent basis we have found a gem. Let's not forget he is still young also.

niallo27

I think a lot of us have being saying good things about him for a good while now, anyone that watches every min of liverpool games knows what he gives to the team, he was an easy scapegoat for peolpe out there

homolumo

niallo27 wrote: »

I think a lot of us have being saying good things about him for a good while now, anyone that watches every min of liverpool games knows what he gives to the team, he was an easy scapegoat for peolpe out there

yeah as I said above Poulsen has now taken that role leaving Lucas to flourish.

Mister men

homolumo wrote: »

yeah as I said above Poulsen has now taken that role leaving Lucas to flourish.

Poulson never was or never will be a Liverpool quality player. Lucas has alway's showed he had the kwality.

niallo27

homolumo wrote: »

yeah as I said above Poulsen has now taken that role leaving Lucas to flourish.

It was insua last year, and it was back to Lucas at the start of the year

The Muppet

Is Lucas World Class again?



Suppose I'll have to wait a few weeks for him to be **** again.;)

niallo27

The Muppet wrote: »

Is Lucas World Class again?



Suppose I'll have to wait a few weeks for him to be **** again.;)

Sometime you have to go to war without your accordian

The Muppet

niallo27 wrote: »

Sometime you have to go to war without your accordian

U been drinking?

niallo27

The Muppet wrote: »

U been drinking?

Yes, yes I have, is it not post random ****e night

Mister Gooey

Future Brazil Captain. Just wait!

The Muppet

niallo27 wrote: »

Yes, yes I have, is it not post random ****e night

Is It, Why are you the only one participating?

NabyLadistheman

Lets not forget he is only 23. God he's taken some abuse over the last 2 years but he was immense today, as well as against Blackburn & Bolten

JohnnyRyan99

I have expressed my opinion on how i don't rate Lucas as a footballer before, but I have no problem in saying he's played well in the last few games. The only thing is when he was playing absolutely terrible early in his career not many Pool fans would admit it, and now that he is playing decent im not accepting those people telling me to "look at him now look how well he's playing" well if he's playing well now?? Why were you always tellin me he was a great player in the past.

As far as definitive discussion? I cant see it happening. Someone will say he's Shít, a Pool fan will back up for him! Thread in a nutshell. Im not saying its just Pool fans that are like that, its the same with most players who the majority of apposing fans will dislike and its to be expected that his own fans will back him up!

Played a few good games, doesnt look the disaster he once was.. Never a really great player but finally starting to look like someone who can do a job!

mike65

JohnnyRyan99 wrote: »

I have expressed my opinion on how i don't rate Lucas as a footballer before, but I have no problem in saying he's played well in the last few games. The only thing is when he was playing absolutely terrible early in his career not many Pool fans would admit it, and now that he is playing decent im not accepting those people telling me to "look at him now look how well he's playing" well if he's playing well now?? Why were you always tellin me he was a great player in the past.

As far as definitive discussion? I cant see it happening. Someone will say he's Shít, a Pool fan will back up for him! Thread in a nutshell. Im not saying its just Pool fans that are like that, its the same with most players who the majority of apposing fans will dislike and its to be expected that his own fans will back him up!

Played a few good games, doesnt look the disaster he once was.. Never a really great player but finally starting to look like someone who can do a job!

You are joking right?

JohnnyRyan99

mike65 wrote: »

You are joking right?

Im talkin bout Pool fans in my area i wasnt on Boards for the whole Lucas hate thing!

Unless ur tryin to say he never played terrible cos if so.... GTFO!

SlickRic

every Liverpool fan, bar the most mind-numbingly blinkered, said he was fairly shíte in his early years.

what fans did though, was back him because he was a young player, coming from Brazil, who had just won the South American Footballer of the Year.

Liverpool fans were just patient.

apart from those who booed him of course.

mike65

JohnnyRyan99, well thats question to put to your local reds then, on boards Lucas was the source of all evil for his first 12 months. It was probably the Newcastle 5-1 game when the first glimspes of what was possible were first spotted but of course as he was a 3rd/4th choice player he didn't get much chance to build anything, gave away stupid free kicks when he did play and Rafa played him too deep anyway. But we won't dig all that up again!

SlickRic

slightly off topic, ish, but not really, but any time i think of Lucas, and any time i think of the unfair treatment he got from so many, i think of this piece of Soccer Saturday magic that outed the shocking prejudice towards him, for whatever reason...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8O5NFnPV0w

argosy2006

Lucas was a liability early in his career at liverpool, was always him at fault for a peno or free kick that led to us conceding goal,
Has learned alot in last 2 years,,No longer a liabilty, Good honest player,
Even has won Roy over, Lucas was not getting a game early in season,not one game!
Which didnt help our results,as he was one of our best players last season,
Now Roy picks him, one of first names on team sheet,
This thread has no meaning anymore
Start a Christian fuc*king Poulsen thread JK !!!!!!!

Mr Alan

Johnny, you're talking crazy talk lad.

I made this thread over a year ago, because at that stage his performances had improved immeasurably since his poor start and he had been playing well since pretty much Christmas in the 08/09 season. He continued on for the rest of last season playing very well. Yet many (including yourself) still thought him rubbish quite inexplicably.

Poor start this season, but back playing to last seasons level the last 3/4 games. A massive performance against Chelsea simply highlights what many people have been saying for well over 18 months.

Its not our fault if some people are slow to catch on!

Mr Alan

argosy2006 wrote: »

Lucas was a liability early in his career at liverpool, was always him at fault for a peno or free kick that led to us conceding goal

This sort of drivel makes me mad.

The Muppet

Mr Alan wrote: »

argosy2006 wrote: »

Lucas was a liability early in his career at liverpool, was always him at fault for a peno or free kick that led to us conceding goal,

This sort of drivel makes me mad.

SlickRic wrote: »

every Liverpool fan, bar the most mind-numbingly blinkered, said he was fairly shíte in his early years.

what fans did though, was back him because he was a young player, coming from Brazil, who had just won the South American Footballer of the Year.

Liverpool fans were just patient.

apart from those who booed him of course.

How very true.:D

JohnnyRyan99

Sigh... My fault for posting in a Pool thread anyway... You can't have an opinion in here.

SlickRic

The Muppet wrote: »

How very true.:D

i don't think that's what Al meant.

it's the thought that Lucas was at fault for everything that went wrong for a while that is the issue.

i.e. - 'was always at fault for a peno or free kick that led to us conceding a goal'.

Handsome Bob

Mr Alan wrote: »

This sort of drivel makes me mad.

In fairness Al he did have an infuriating knack for giving away careless fouls in suicidal areas of the pitch, and he was still doing that as recently as last season. Hopefully he's improved that aspect of his game and we'll see less of it.