Lucas "fu*king" Leiva

Handsome Bob

I never really abused him, I never had the chap up on a pedestal expecting him to replace Xabi Alonso, he's always done the best he can.

What I have criticised however is that at the start of this season I said we'd suffer for signing a replacement for Xabi who'd be out for 2 months (pushing 3 months now if you include without starting a game). I said we'd be all but out of the title race by the time Aquilani was fully fit. I got abused in the superthread for being short-sighted. I also knew what kind of knock on effect that would have on Rafa. Well **** me, how does it feel lads?

Boggles

When the new manager comes in, he will be one of the first on the "TO SELL" list.

The Muppet

Average squad player but with time on his side to improve.




BTW, I neve knew his full name until now, Thanks for the info AL.;)

Theresalwaysone

Kess73 summed it up perfectly.

Chap should be credited for his mental fortitude imo.

astrofool

He's not good enough for a team that has title aspirations. He might be young, but he really hasn't stepped up given the amount of game time he's been given.

Mr Alan

astrofool wrote: »

He's not good enough for a team that has title aspirations. He might be young, but he really hasn't stepped up given the amount of game time he's been given.

considering he was a very important player in the same team that came with a gee hair of winning the title last year, and other teams with "title aspirations" have similar players in their squad, he quite clearly is good enough.

and he quite clearly has "stepped it up".

Theresalwaysone

Mr Alan wrote: »

considering he was a very important player in the same team that came with a gee hair of winning the title last year, and other teams with "title aspirations" have similar players in their squad, he quite clearly is good enough.

and he quite clearly has "stepped it up".

I think the fact that he is so important to Liverpool shows the inherant weakness of the squad.

A player of his ilk shouldnt be so important, especially in such a pivotal position.

super_furry

Lucas and Benayoun have been Liverpool's two best players this season.

astrofool

Mr Alan wrote: »

considering he was a very important player in the same team that came with a gee hair of winning the title last year, and other teams with "title aspirations" have similar players in their squad, he quite clearly is good enough.

and he quite clearly has "stepped it up".

He certainly was very important at giving away penalties, and helping Liverpool drop points, yes, he was.

The title race last year wasn't that close either.

I don't think the other top 4 teams have similarly bad players that they have to rely on as much either.

Handsome Bob

astrofool wrote: »

He certainly was very important at giving away penalties, and helping Liverpool drop points, yes, he was.

The title race last year wasn't that close either.

I don't think the other top 4 teams have similarly bad players that they have to rely on as much either.

4 points in it, with Man U nearly buckling against Spurs, Wigan and Villa. How the hell was that not close?

Boggles

LZ5by5 wrote: »

4 points in it, with Man U nearly buckling against Spurs, Wigan and Villa. How the hell was that not close?

Because not many outside Liverpool thought they had a realistic chance of actually winning it.

Blazer

super_furry wrote: »

Lucas and Benayoun have been Liverpool's two best players this season.

in all fairness if I played for liverpool this season you'd probably be including me with the above.
Fact is Liverpool have no squad depth...take Gerrard and Torres out of the team and you've a middle table team. Over the last 9 games Rafa has proved that LFC are a 2 man team.
The players Rafa are bringing in (with exception of Torres only) might be premiership material but they're not Champion material.
Apart from Gerrard+Torres what other Liverpool player would walk into a team like Chelsea/Man Utd/Arsenal?
I'd have included Xavi in that but since he was sold there's a huge hole in midfield for ye.

~Rebel~

Boggles wrote: »

Because not many outside Liverpool thought they had a realistic chance of actually winning it.

perceptions dont really come into it. 4 points is 4 points. 2 of the 11 draws turned into wins. (before anyone says "if my aunty had balls.." etc etc etc - i know, i know, i'm just pointing out that whatever peoples perceptions of who was likely to win it, the fact remains - Liverpool WERE close.)

K-9

Oh lookey here, another Liverpool bashing thread.

Boggles

~Rebel~ wrote: »

perceptions dont really come into it. 4 points is 4 points. 2 of the 11 draws turned into wins. (before anyone says "if my aunty had balls.." etc etc etc - i know, i know, i'm just pointing out that whatever peoples perceptions of who was likely to win it, the fact remains - Liverpool WERE close.)

You could say the same the other way though, 2 draws turned into wins for United and it's 8 points, add a win against Liverpool 14 points.

The point is Liverpool couldn't have done any better in the last quarter of the league, played beyond themselves, still came up short.

You could also say if Chelsea had won against United it there would have been one point in it.

But as you said that is aload of Aunty Testicles.

Brass Tacks, Liverpool were not anywhere near good enough to win the title, add into that they were out of all cup competitions by the quarter final stage. Purely focused on the league they did there best, their best was nowhere near good enough.

Mr Alan

Berkut wrote: »

The players Rafa are bringing in (with exception of Torres only) might be premiership material but they're not Champion material.

Reina?Johnson?Agger?Mascherano?Kuyt?Benayoun?

Berkut wrote: »

Apart from Gerrard+Torres what other Liverpool player would walk into a team like Chelsea/Man Utd/Arsenal?

the above?

~Rebel~

Boggles wrote: »

Brass Tacks, Liverpool were not anywhere near good enough to win the title, add into that they were out of all cup competitions by the quarter final stage. Purely focused on the league they did there best, their best was nowhere near good enough.

Their best when they were down to just the league was good enough, but the period around and after christmas when they were competing in various competitions wasn't, thats the period where pool really fell down unfortunately. Such a strong finish to the league when all concentration is focused on one goal unfortunately matters little when pool weren't able to avoid weeks of blips around and after christmas.

whatawaster

Boggles wrote: »

You could say the same the other way though, 2 draws turned into wins for United and it's 8 points, add a win against Liverpool 14 points.

The point is Liverpool couldn't have done any better in the last quarter of the league, played beyond themselves, still came up short.

You could also say if Chelsea had won against United it there would have been one point in it.

But as you said that is aload of Aunty Testicles.

Brass Tacks, Liverpool were not anywhere near good enough to win the title, add into that they were out of all cup competitions by the quarter final stage. Purely focused on the league they did there best, their best was nowhere near good enough.

That’s just nonsense.
United were under a lot of pressure, and they played like they were for the last few months of the season.
They got out of jail at Wigan, Villa, Sunderland, lucky penalty against Spurs which completely changed the game.
That’s why United won the league because they had that ability to win games when frankly, they played s*it. Most of this was down to Ronaldo and Tevez imo (who really stepped up to the plate on big occasions last season, despite what United fans might say about him now).
To say Liverpool were nowhere near is complete bo**ocks. Liverpool were four points behind I think for the last 8 or 9 games. And they kept winning games comfortably. And United kept playing like the weight of the world was on their shoulders. They lost the ability to defend. Luckily they had superb individuals to see them through.

Fink Goddie

astrofool wrote: »

He's not good enough for a team that has title aspirations. He might be young, but he really hasn't stepped up given the amount of game time he's been given.

Yep i agree totally!

astrofool wrote: »

He certainly was very important at giving away penalties, and helping Liverpool drop points, yes, he was.

I don't think the other top 4 teams have similarly bad players that they have to rely on as much either.

Lucas wouldnt get near the Manchester United or Chelsea bench or Man City for that matter, why is that???
Because he's not good enough for teams with title aspirations.

whatawaster

Fink Goddie wrote: »

Yep i agree totally!



Lucas wouldnt get near the Manchester United or Chelsea bench or Man City for that matter, why is that???
Because he's not good enough for teams with title aspirations.

Lucas has not been a weakness for us this season. He's done his job very well.
Tell me, do you think we'd have more points if Alonso/Aquilani was in the team instead of him? Where would we have gotten these extra points?

Boggles

whatawaster wrote: »

That’s just nonsense.
United were under a lot of pressure, and they played like they were for the last few months of the season.
They got out of jail at Wigan, Villa, Sunderland, lucky penalty against Spurs which completely changed the game.
That’s why United won the league because they had that ability to win games when frankly, they played s*it. Most of this was down to Ronaldo and Tevez imo (who really stepped up to the plate on big occasions last season, despite what United fans might say about him now).
To say Liverpool were nowhere near is complete bo**ocks. Liverpool were four points behind I think for the last 8 or 9 games. And they kept winning games comfortably. And United kept playing like the weight of the world was on their shoulders. They lost the ability to defend. Luckily they had superb individuals to see them through.

Fooking Hilarious.

So what your saying is United fell apart and were just lucky to win games and were under immense pressure?

Of course they were, the pressure of winning their 3rd league title in a row. But if someone had said to me, listen ye will be 6 points clear with 2 play at the start of the season. Well that was easier than year previous, I'll take that.

Liverpool played excellent for the last 10 or so games, exactly how I'd expect a team that has nothing to play for to perform.

Bandit12

K-9 wrote: »

Oh lookey here, another Liverpool bashing thread.

Sad is'nt it. A thread starts about Lucas leiva and it turns into another Liverpool v Man U thread. Really had it with this forum.

Fink Goddie

whatawaster wrote: »

Lucas has not been a weakness for us this season. He's done his job very well.
Tell me, do you think we'd have more points if Alonso/Aquilani was in the team instead of him? Where would we have gotten these extra points?

Where Lucas scored an own goal after giving away a free kick is one match i could mention.
Numerous shots on goal that he blundered!!!

Dont try and play down what Alonso did for the team!!! We'd be better off this season if we had him, who knows what Aqualani will be like, hopefully he'd be better in attack than Lucas.

So do you think he'd get on the United or Chelsea bench??

Blazer

Mr Alan wrote: »

Reina?Johnson?Agger?Mascherano?Kuyt?Benayoun?




the above?

I think Arsenal/Chelsea/Man U fans would say otherwise...

And Alan..apart from means players other than the two I mentioned

Berti Vogts

Fink Goddie wrote: »

Yep i agree totally!



Lucas wouldnt get near the Manchester United or Chelsea bench or Man City for that matter, why is that???
Because he's not good enough for teams with title aspirations.

Given the way he dealt with Paul Scholes the other week, I don't think that anybody could possibly agree with that statement.

I watched the Birmingham match in a quiet pub the other night and the Liverpool "fans" there had a whale of a time giving out about everything Lucas did, even though he was actually playing very well. Short of Lucas getting the winner in the next 10 games, these people are still going to be bashing him. Well, they need to cop on pretty quickly and stop listening to the likes of Eamon Dunphy.

Fink Goddie

Possibilities wrote: »

Given the way he dealt with Paul Scholes the other week, I don't think that anybody could possibly agree with that statement.

I watched the Birmingham match in a quiet pub the other night and the Liverpool "fans" there had a whale of a time giving out about everything Lucas did, even though he was actually playing very well. Short of Lucas getting the winner in the next 10 games, these people are still going to be bashing him. Well, they need to cop on pretty quickly and stop listening to the likes of Eamon Dunphy.

So you think Alex Ferguson would have Lucas on the team then yeh??

Berti Vogts

Yes, well he does have Carrick and Fletcher in the team regularly, so why not?

Leixlip_Red

Fink Goddie wrote: »

Where Lucas scored an own goal after giving away a free kick is one match i could mention.
Numerous shots on goal that he blundered!!!

Dont try and play down what Alonso did for the team!!! We'd be better off this season if we had him, who knows what Aqualani will be like, hopefully he'd be better in attack than Lucas.

So do you think he'd get on the United or Chelsea bench??

In all fairness he was in the wall and got his head to Young's free-kick, just very unfortunate that it deflected on target and wrong footed Reina.... these things happen in football.

Fink Goddie

Leixlip_Red wrote: »

In all fairness he was in the wall and got his head to Young's free-kick, just very unfortunate that it deflected on target and wrong footed Reina.... these things happen in football.

He also gave away the free kick stupidly that ended up with him scoring. I wouldnt call it unfortunate when he keeps giving away needless free kicks.

Pity he cant score into the right net once in a while, his shooting is dreadful!

RasTa

I feel sorry for the lad since he is effectively Alonso's replacement so obviously nowhere near good enough.

Fink Goddie

Fink Goddie wrote: »

So you think Alex Ferguson would have Lucas on the team then yeh??

I'd say he would as good as chance as Anderson on getting into that team.

I know Anderson isn't a regular but Lucas isn't far off Fletcher either.

K-9

Boggles wrote: »

Liverpool played excellent for the last 10 or so games, exactly how I'd expect a team that has nothing to play for to perform.

And if they'd won just 1 in 10 you'd still be giving them flack. Nice back handed compliment btw.

They did what they had to do to benefit from any United slip ups, which sadly didn't happen.

Anyway Lucas is doing ok, he has to develop parts of his game and he is doing that. The lads needs 2/3 years to see how good he is. Talking about Alonso or Acquilani is kind of pointless.

Headshot

rarnes1 wrote: »

I'd say he would as good as chance as Anderson on getting into that team.

I know Anderson isn't a regular but Lucas isn't far off Fletcher either.

lol

no chance

and "off a Fletcher" too


lol that was a great post rarnes keep up the good jokes

Fink Goddie

rarnes1 wrote: »

I'd say he would as good as chance as Anderson on getting into that team.

I know Anderson isn't a regular but Lucas isn't far off Fletcher either.

I'd have Fletcher over Lucas any day!

Boggles

rarnes1 wrote: »

I know Anderson isn't a regular but Lucas isn't far off Fletcher either.

RasTa

rarnes1 wrote: »

I'd say he would as good as chance as Anderson on getting into that team.

I know Anderson isn't a regular but Lucas isn't far off Fletcher either.

lol wtf are you talking about, let's not bring united players into this thread but that is pure and utter bollocks.

Headshot

Headshot wrote: »

lol

no chance

and "off a Fletcher" too


lol that was a great post rarnes keep up the good jokes

I'm deadly serious. He gets hounded by the press like Rafa while expensive players with other clubs get let off the hook for p*ss poor performances considering their transfer fee.

Boggles wrote: »

I can't open that, I'd imagine it's amusing.

RasTa wrote: »

lol wtf are you talking about, let's not bring united players into this thread but that is pure and utter bollocks. Can Lucas even tackle? I thought masch did all the gruntwork for yis.

I was only making a comparison.

Lucas can tackle ffs. The main gripe I'd have with him is needless frees but he has improved on that from last season.

K-9

Fink Goddie wrote: »

I'd have Fletcher over Lucas any day!

Don't really want to know about who you fancy.

Headshot

rarnes1 wrote: »

I'm deadly serious. He gets hounded by the press like Rafa while expensive players with other clubs get let off the hook for p*ss poor performances considering their transfer fee.



I can't open that, I'd imagine it's amusing.



I was only making a comparison.

Lucas can tackle ffs. The main gripe I'd have with him is needless frees but he has improved on that from last season.

what the **** are you talking about piss poor performances, ando has really come along leaps and bounds this season, he is starting to look like the player when he came to utd first

I honestly dont know where your coming from.

but all that matters is I had a great laugh

but to say lucas is even near fletch is pure and simple BS, fletch is on a different planet to lucas

Blazer

Headshot wrote: »

but to say lucas is even near fletch is pure and simple BS, fletch is on a different planet to lucas

maybe it's that same planet as Liverpool fans as in Lucas..not Fletch

Fink Goddie

K-9 wrote: »

Don't really want to know about who you fancy.

Oh sorry i didnt realise you were talking about who ya fancy, but whatever you're into.
I was talking about who's a better player, sorry princess xxx

Handsome Bob

Gotta laugh at the Man U fans getting all hot and bothered about criticisms of their players, while we're expected to just nod, smile and concede criticisms of Lucas.

Fink Goddie

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Gotta laugh at the Man U fans getting all hot and bothered about criticisms of their players, while we're expected to just nod, smile and concede criticisms of Lucas.

Thats because the Lucas ones are valid

whatawaster

Lucas is better than Fletcher was at his age, he's not as good as him now though.

This season he's been better than Anderson has

Headshot

Headshot wrote: »

what the **** are you talking about piss poor performances, ando has really come along leaps and bounds this season, he is starting to look like the player when he came to utd first

I honestly dont know where your coming from.

but all that matters is I had a great laugh

but to say lucas is even near fletch is pure and simple BS, fletch is on a different planet to lucas

I've have Lucas over Ando every day of the week.End of.

Lucas on another planet?? :eek: This has given me a good laugh too.

The lad gets unjust criticism every game from the anti-pool brigade and from some of the "faithfull". It's bóllix.

Headshot

whatawaster wrote: »

This season he's been better than Anderson has

I disagree with that

ando has been better in more games, lucas just showed up against utd, other wise he has been poor

Headshot

rarnes1 wrote: »

I've have Lucas over Ando every day of the week.End of.

Lucas on another planet?? :eek: This has given me a good laugh too.

The lad gets unjust criticism every game from the anti-pool brigade and from some of the "faithfull". It's bóllix.

I agree with the critcism tbf, far from good enough for a top 4 team

SlickRic

good idea Al, genuinely.

it's just a pity utd fans feel the need to get all hot and bothered when we dare mention Lucas in the same breath as Fletcher.

you'd swear Fletcher was the best in the world.

lucas is where he was a year or two ago.

this thread is an example of what's going wrong with this forum.

liverpool fans are apparently expected to just accept criticisms, smart ass jokes, and ridiculous claims about our players...but when we dare to mention someone is ever close to the calibre of one of utd's (not even an outlandish one), to try and make a comparison, the thread goes to Liverpool v Utd hell.

'4 points is close', 'no it's not', 'yes it is', 'Auntie's Boll*x'.

for the record, Lucas is doing a damn fine job. he's been our best midfielder, not saying an awful lot in itself, but he has. he's been thrown in at the deep end, and came up swimming. it's the like of Masch and Kuyt who should be looking at themselves a hell of a lot harder than Lucas.

well played young man, as mentally strong as i've seen, and i've no doubt you'll get better, and i'll be proud to have you at LFC for years to come.

whatawaster

Headshot wrote: »

I disagree with that

ando has been better in more games, lucas just showed up against utd, other wise he has been poor

Lucas played well against United, was our best player against Fulham, one of our best against Lyon.
His only poor performances this season have been Spurs (where the whole team was dreadful) and Fiorentina (when he had a left back playing alongside him)

Draupnir

I'm not going to read the thread because I'm sure it's just United fans fighting with Liverpool fans so I will comment having just read Alan's opening post.

I've seen Liverpool 6 or 7 times this year and Lucas has played in most of the games. I have to say, he looks by far their best central midfielder, his positioning is excellent and his work rate is second to none (Mascherano standing around like he doesn't care a lot of the time means he has to work harder!). He is always available for a pass and doesn't seem to give it away as much as he used to either.

He doesn't deserve the reputation he has, it's hard to settle when you move countries even harder going to England where it's faster and more physical than basically anywhere else on Earth. Unfortunately, he might never shake that rep in England now, nothing would help more than Liverpool improving as a team with him in it though.

I would say however that he needs to improve his tackling and also that he tends to get muscled off the ball sometimes, but he is young and will work on that. He did well against United at Anfield this season in particular, performing his role excellently and I assume doing the job Benitez asked him to do. How he didn't get booked in that game I'll never know though!