Lucas "fu*king" Leiva

Headshot

whatawaster wrote: »

Lucas played well against United, was our best player against Fulham, one of our best against Lyon.
His only poor performances this season have been Spurs (where the whole team was dreadful) and Fiorentina (when he had a left back playing alongside him)

I cant comment on the Fulham game because I didnt see it but to say he was one of your best against Lyon is a bit over the top tbh, Ill tell ya the truth mate I barely knew he was playing, he went missing in that game imo

K-9

Headshot wrote: »

lucas just showed up against utd

That's all he had to do against this much vaunted United Midfield.

Headshot

K-9 wrote: »

That's all he had to do against this much vaunted United Midfield.

ya because Fletch was missing

whatawaster

Headshot wrote: »

I cant comment on the Fulham game because I didnt see it but to say he was one of your best against Lyon is a bit over the top tbh, Ill tell ya the truth mate I barely knew he was playing, he went missing in that game imo

Well you’re wrong, he was on the ball loads in that game, got into the box loads of times and but for great goalkeeping he would have scored the opener.

Headshot

whatawaster wrote: »

Well you’re wrong, he was on the ball loads in that game, got into the box loads of times and but for great goalkeeping he would have scored the opener.

loads of time passing it back to the defence without driving forward ?
isnt that what he always does ?

Fink Goddie

SlickRic wrote: »

i'll be proud to have you at LFC for years to come.

Oh jesus dont say that!!! scary prospect!

whatawaster

Headshot wrote: »

loads of time passing it back to the defence without driving forward ?
isnt that what he always does ?

A critic of him posted in the match thread afterwards, complaining that most of his passes were either sideways or 10-15 yards forward.
Neglecting of course to mention that his accuracy on those passes is nearly 100% and that sideways passes are perfectly acceptable, and that 10-15 yard forward passes even more so.

What exactly is he in the team for other than to work hard and win the ball when we don’t have it – which he does, and receive the ball, pass it to a teammate and move – which he does.
Watch him closely next time we play. He often plays passes and makes darting runs forward beyond even Torres

Handsome Bob

Only hollywood balls are acceptable whatawasher.

Fink Goddie

whatawaster wrote: »

A critic of him posted in the match thread afterwards, complaining that most of his passes were either sideways or 10-15 yards forward.
Neglecting of course to mention that his accuracy on those passes is nearly 100%

You really are too easily pleased, thats why you think he's so good, surely we should expect more than that from a premiership player playing for Liverpool.

K-9

Trying to remember, did he not have the assist for NGog?

K-9

Headshot wrote: »

ya because Fletch was missing

Think you missed the point there!

SlickRic

Fink Goddie wrote: »

You really are too easily pleased, thats why you think he's so good, surely we should expect more than that from a premiership player playing for Liverpool.

so you expect a perfect midfield player, who can do all things brilliantly?

name me one playing at the moment.

roy keane and paddy vieira are as close as i've ever seen to doing nearly everything needed for a midfield player in the premiership, and doing it to a very high standard.

you've one fault with him from what i can see, that he doesn't do what Alonso does.

he tackles adequately (though fouls a bit too much), brilliant work rate, good discipline, barely gives the ball away, puts in the odd one or two long passes a game, and can't finish. very good for a 22 year old midfield player.

alonso's gone, get over it. we're not going to get 50 yard balls every 5mins anymore. barely anybody can do that to the standard he could.

Quandary

Kess73 wrote: »

Those who think Lucas is somewhere between very good and brilliant, and will fight to the death to defend his name.

Those who think that Lucas is muck and seem to pounce on every error the kid makes, and some that he does not make. This lot will fight to the bitter end to try and get everyone to agree that Lucas is the worst player in the world. EVER.

Then there is the third group, that I would fall into. Who see that Lucas is a decent squad player, a bit raw at times. Not a great player, but good enough for the job he is being asked to do at present, and nowhere near being a bad player. But he is a player that has improved, and one that I will give credit to for never hiding, regardless of how he is playing that day.

Pretty much bang on imo. He's not as good as some of his die hard fans are saying & not as bad as the haters are saying.

Mr Alan

its funny, but much the same criticisms were thrown at Alonso as are being thrown at Lucas.

he is not direct enough.
doesnt score enough.
too much side ways passing.

then he leaves, and all of a sudden he's ****ing a combo of Zidane & Maradonna. Ridiculous.

whatawaster

Fink Goddie wrote: »

You really are too easily pleased, thats why you think he's so good, surely we should expect more than that from a premiership player playing for Liverpool.

So accurate passing, hard work, and good movement are not good enough for a Liverpool squad player? Rubbish.

Everyone knows his weaknesses. But he’s improved on them all.
He was too lightweight last season, this year he won some 50-50 battles with Essien, and against Birmingham the other night there was one occasion where he did brilliantly in winning the ball back showing tremendous strength he definitely didn’t have last season.
He still gives away too many silly fouls. But not as many as last year, so he’s improving.
He looks lost in front of goal. To be honest I think he just needs one to go in. I think in a few years he could be someone who gets 8/9/10 goals a season.

I think when Lucas is 26 he’ll either be a regular for us or a regular for a top European club, and a regular for Brazil.
In his first season with us I’d have given him a 5.5/10, but wrote the season off due to settling in etc.
The first half of last season I’d have given him a 6. The Second half I’d have given him a 7/10.
This season has been 7.5/10 for me.
He’s made tremendous improvements.
For a 22 year old midfielder asked to do a job imo he wasn’t ready for he’s done brilliantly.

whatawaster

K-9 wrote: »

Trying to remember, did he not have the assist for NGog?

Riera i think

Fink Goddie

SlickRic wrote: »

so you expect a perfect midfield player, who can do all things brilliantly?

name me one playing at the moment.

roy keane and paddy vieira are as close as i've ever seen to doing nearly everything needed for a midfield player in the premiership, and doing it to a very high standard.

you've one fault with him from what i can see, that he doesn't do what Alonso does.

he tackles adequately (though fouls a bit too much), brilliant work rate, good discipline, barely gives the ball away, puts in the odd one or two long passes a game, and can't finish. very good for a 22 year old midfield player.

alonso's gone, get over it. we're not going to get 50 yard balls every 5mins anymore. barely anybody can do that to the standard he could.

I expect him to be good enough to play for LFC, he's not.

Everyones excuse is OH HE'S A SQUAD player, he's our 4th choice blah blah blah, point is he's playing for us every game!!!!

Thats like us playing a ten year old and you lot saying ah but he's only ten years old, but he's playing for the 1st team every week, thats the point!!!

He shouldnt be!!!

Fink Goddie

whatawaster wrote: »

So accurate passing, hard work, and good movement are not good enough for a Liverpool squad player? Rubbish.

Everyone knows his weaknesses. But he’s improved on them all.
, so he’s improving.

For a 22 year old midfielder .

Making excuses for him again, i dont care how old he is!!!

mayordenis

Fink Goddie wrote: »

Making excuses for him again, i dont care how old he is!!!

I love how when someone makes a big post you big out the few words that somewhat suit your argument.

PHB

Thing about Lucas, and I've been defending him for a long time, is that he's still just a young player with potential. He is nowhere near the finished product yet and if you want to get world class players without paying 20-30 million for them, you need to give him a chance.

I would say however, that using his big game performances as an example of his talent is kinda flawed. For most players, they do it in small games and in big games is the real test. For Liverpool players, it's almost hte other way around. Kuyt is world class in big games a lot of the time, and part of the overall effort by Liverpool to massively up their game in those games. However in smaller games, where you have more time, more chance to show off your skill, he lacks. I would say the same is true of Lucas atm.

However, still plenty of time to advance. Personally, he's far from the worst part of the team imo.

Fink Goddie

mayordenis wrote: »

I love how when someone makes a big post you big out the few words that somewhat suit your argument.

Thanks, i love it too

eZe^

How much did Rafa pay for him actually?

whatawaster

eZe^ wrote: »

How much did Rafa pay for him actually?

5m

NukaCola

I was going to write a long post about Lucas but i'll keep it short.

Not as bad as some say, not as good as what others say. Average squad player, however he is a young player whos Improving but a long way to go and a lot more to do.

event

Fink Goddie wrote: »

I expect him to be good enough to play for LFC, he's not.

Everyones excuse is OH HE'S A SQUAD player, he's our 4th choice blah blah blah, point is he's playing for us every game!!!!

Thats like us playing a ten year old and you lot saying ah but he's only ten years old, but he's playing for the 1st team every week, thats the point!!!

He shouldnt be!!!

there is genuinely no talking to you.

i dont know how the lads on the main thread do it, if they had sense they'd all put you on ignore.

Someone makes a very good post about the things he can do well, and you answer with he's not good enough.
end of story, game over. no discussion of the point that were made, just a flat out statement, he'd not good enough.

Your point about a ten year old, i have no idea what you are on about and id say no one else does.

slickric made comment below:

he tackles adequately (though fouls a bit too much), brilliant work rate, good discipline, barely gives the ball away, puts in the odd one or two long passes a game, and can't finish

do you even want to address them, try to counter them with arguements?

have a look at this if you want

Lucas against birmingham:
Passes Successful - 42. Passes Unsuccessful - 6
tackles successful - 12. tackles unsucccessful - 4

Vs Fulham:
Passes Successful - 65. Passes Unsuccessful - 9
tackles successful - 2. tackles unsucccessful - 1

Vs united
Passes Successful - 37. Passes Unsuccessful - 2 Assists - 1
tackles successful - 3. tackles unsucccessful - 3

you can check all this out yourself on http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/chalkboards/create if you can be bothered

he IS a good passer, and like slick said, he is an ok tackler, but fouls a bit too much

So can you tell us what is wrong with the chap in your opinion, and back it up, not just words now?

TheDoc

I was a bit dumbfounded with all the Lucas love and hate.

I'd be more of the opinion he is an average midfielder.

I do not think he would make the first team at United,Chelsea or Arsenal, and I think he is being singled out this season because before he was putting in some poor performances, this year he is playing some big name games and doing ok, not great, ok.

His distribution is average, and he doesnt not seem to posses alot of creativity.

The Lucas focus for me rounds up my point on the liverpool midfield as a whole. A very average,mediocre, if not poor midfield. One decent or good performance from a liverpool player usually grabs the spotlight.

A very lackluster and un-imaginitive midfield centre, that a random through ball or cross field pass, has people shouting praises, when most other teams are used to that coming from their midfielders week in week out.

I think its also figuritive of the fact liverpool play two defensive midfielders. Jobs being shielding the back four and breaking up the play. This however requires a good vision and reading ability on the game, which I find both Mascherano and Lucas lack

eZe^

whatawaster wrote: »

5m

Value for money tbh, 5 million is pocket change really. Wasn't Anderson like 20 million?

TheDoc

eZe^ wrote: »

Value for money tbh, 5 million is pocket change really. Wasn't Anderson like 20 million?

You'll pay for creativity though. Anderson has a phenomonal engine. His performances are hard to rate, he hasnt been a goalscorer for an attacking midfielder, but his distribution is pretty solid, and he is a tough lad who gets his tackles in.

I see alot more possible potential for improvement coming from Anderson then Lucas.

K-9

event wrote: »

Vs united
Passes Successful - 37. Passes Unsuccessful - 2 Assists - 1

Thought he got the assist alright. Not attacking enough for some, I suppose.

eZe^

TheDoc wrote: »

You'll pay for creativity though. Anderson has a phenomonal engine. His performances are hard to rate, he hasnt been a goalscorer for an attacking midfielder, but his distribution is pretty solid, and he is a tough lad who gets his tackles in.

I see alot more possible potential for improvement coming from Anderson then Lucas.

Different players all together. Anderson is a better dribbler and has a better engine. He'll harass players more, but Lucas is better as sitting deep and spraying the ball about to his team mates. He defensive duties lie in his positioning. It's like comparing Pirlo to Deco (albeit both much much shi**er versions).

No way in hell so far that Anderson is worth 4 times more than Lucas though. I can see similar amounts of potential in both players.

Headshot

eZe^ wrote: »

Value for money tbh, 5 million is pocket change really. Wasn't Anderson like 20 million?

link please

eZe^

Headshot wrote: »

link please

Where did I say he was, it was a question....



Wait;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2007/may/31/newsstory.sport10

35 million for both Nani and Anderson. So Anderson must have been at least 15.

Headshot

eZe^ wrote: »

Where did I say he was, it was a question....

eZe^ wrote: »

No way in hell so far that Anderson is worth 4 times more than Lucas though. I can see similar amounts of potential in both players.

...

kyp_durron

Headshot wrote: »

...

Is this Morse code for poo?

whatawaster

17/18 million according to most sources.

I think Anderson definitely has more talent than Lucas and more pace etc.
But he's not worth 3/3.5 times what Lucas is.

eZe^

Headshot wrote: »

...

Fine,

Anderson 'may' have cost up to 4 times more than Lucas. I think we can all safely say he cost at least 10 million ya? Imo, he isn't worth more than twice Lucas either.

SlickRic

Fink Goddie wrote: »

I expect him to be good enough to play for LFC, he's not.

Everyones excuse is OH HE'S A SQUAD player, he's our 4th choice blah blah blah, point is he's playing for us every game!!!!

thats not my excuse for him.

my excuse is he's performed very well for the majority of the end of last season and this season, by ours or pretty much anyone's standards.

name me games or instances he's been sh*t in this year. the villa game he gave away the free kick, got to the header from it, but it unluckily went in. i honestly, well and truly, cannot remember the last time he had a really bad game for us. i really can't. i can name you masch's last bad game. carra's. kuyt's. stevie's. hell, nando's.

anfield gave him a standing ovation appreciating, not only his efforts on Monday, but i believe his efforts this season. they know they were wrong to boo him, and he has won them back. they know he's not perfect, they also know he's worthy of the shirt though, that he's improved immeasurabely since his downturn at the start of last season, and that he has the potential to turn into a top player for us.

as do i.

Headshot

kyp_durron wrote: »

Is this Morse code for poo?

great contribution there, fair play.

whatawaster wrote: »

17/18 million according to most sources.

I think Anderson definitely has more talent than Lucas and more pace etc.
But he's not worth 3/3.5 times what Lucas is.

most source I take you mean tabloid newspapers

good thing about being off the stock exchange is utd dont disclose figures

but getting back to the topic

Lucas is a ok squad player, I understand why liverpool play him, who else is there until aquaman is fit but that has been a mistake on rafa's half but that is a discussion for another thread

UnitedIrishman

Really don't get the point of starting an individual thread, maybe we should start one about Emile Heskey or Robbie Keane - seeing as they divide opinion just as much as Lucas.

My personal view on Lucas is that he's an average player. Wouldn't get into any other of the top four's teams, or City, or a fully fit Everton midfield for that matter. He's improved on last year but it's taken a large amount of games to do so.

I can see him taking over from Mascherano in the holding role because having Lucas and Mascherano in midfield without Aquilani/Gerrard leaves the midfield very flat and bereft of creativity. I know they beat United with those two in midfield but constantly pressurising their opposition won't beat every team, every week. I said last year that he isn't good enough but he looks like he could be a very fit replacement into the holding role if Mascherano goes.

An aside - it's quite funny watching the Anderson bashers on here slate him when the likelihood is that they've watched him 5-6 times and made up their mind on them. The kid will be top class eventually and he has three to four years before he reaches anywhere near the top of his game. I'll call a spade a spade more often than not with regards to our own players. I don't tend to defend them to near death if they're not good enough unlike some on here.

whatawaster

Headshot wrote: »

great contribution there, fair play.


most source I take you mean tabloid newspapers

good thing about being off the stock exchange is utd dont disclose figures

but getting back to the topic

Lucas is a ok squad player, I understand why liverpool play him, who else is there until aquaman is fit but that has been a mistake on rafa's half but that is a discussion for another thread

hardly any clubs reveal transfer fees, it's not just a United thing. But the media are generally in the right ballpark, and the ballpark here seems certain to be at least 15+ million.

eZe^

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

An aside - it's quite funny watching the Anderson bashers on here slate him when the likelihood is that they've watched him 5-6 times and made up their mind on them. The kid will be top class eventually and he has three to four years before he reaches anywhere near the top of his game.

Jesus H Christ, talk about being hypocritical. Have you been watching Lucas since the dawn of his playing time with Gremio then, making your opinion on him much more valid than any of ours on Anderson? Similar enough players, similar enough age, similar enough transfer time, similar enough potential. I don't get where this massive gap in class between the two has been clearly evident. Anderson has been absolute muck on more than a few occasions too you know.

Mr Alan

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

The kid will be top class eventually and he has three to four years before he reaches anywhere near the top of his game.

whereas Lucas should be judged and ridiculed now?

& people, please stfu moaning about the thread, if you don't like it, don't post in it. the fact it has 140 odd replies would suggest it merits discussion.

Fink Goddie

event wrote: »

there is genuinely no talking to you.

i dont know how the lads on the main thread do it, if they had sense they'd all put you on ignore.

Why dont you put me on ignore then honey, big hugs and kisses xx

Headshot

whatawaster wrote: »

hardly any clubs reveal transfer fees, it's not just a United thing. But the media are generally in the right ballpark, and the ballpark here seems certain to be at least 15+ million.

the media said valenica cost 18m but saf said he only cost 12m

so you can say there's a bit of difference there

that's my final post on ando, I dont want to be going of off topic

event

Fink Goddie wrote: »

Why dont you put me on ignore then honey, big hugs and kisses xx

you dont really bother me

but again, nice to see you prove your footballing knowledge by answering my post with well thought out counter points

Fink Goddie

TheDoc wrote: »

I do not think he would make the first team at United,Chelsea or Arsenal, and I think he is being singled out this season because before he was putting in some poor performances, this year he is playing some big name games and doing ok, not great, ok.

His distribution is average, and he doesnt not seem to posses alot of creativity.

The Lucas focus for me rounds up my point on the liverpool midfield as a whole. A very average,mediocre, if not poor midfield. One decent or good performance from a liverpool player usually grabs the spotlight.

A very lackluster and un-imaginitive midfield centre, that a random through ball or cross field pass, has people shouting praises, when most other teams are used to that coming from their midfielders week in week out.

I think its also figuritive of the fact liverpool play two defensive midfielders. Jobs being shielding the back four and breaking up the play. This however requires a good vision and reading ability on the game, which I find both Mascherano and Lucas lack

Good post dude

MementoMori

Headshot wrote: »

link please

Jose agent's £4m jackpot on AndersonBy IAN LADYMAN
Last updated at 08:39 01 June 2007

Jorge Mendes, Chelsea manager Jose Mourinho's agent, has made around £4million from the sensational deal that has taken Brazilian wonderkid Anderson from Porto to Manchester United.
Mendes flew to England last night with his 19-year-old client, who has a medical at Old Trafford today following a deal now known to be worth £20.4m.

Sources in Portugal have revealed to Sportsmail that Mendes has been paid 20 per cent of the fee after originally helping Porto buy the "new Ronaldinho" from Brazilian club Gremio in 2006.
It is understood that Mendes contributed 20 per cent of the £3.75m Porto paid Gremio and until recently still effectively "owned" a fifth of the player.
But Anderson's switch to United is still to be ratified by the Home Office and subject to the medical. has seen that arrangement come to an end with Mendes now being paid by Porto in full.

The payment is not irregular or suspicious but Mendes' role in Anderson's transfer and the £14m arrival of Portugal winger Nani from Sporting Lisbon serves to indicate the growing influence the Oporto-based agent now has in the Premiership.

Already responsible for Cristiano Ronaldo's presence at United and Mourinho's tenure at Chelsea, Mendes' roster also boasts the likes of Stamford Bridge defender Ricardo Carvalho and Portsmouth midfielder Pedro Mendes.
United are aware that their new signing will fail in his bid to receive a work permit if he is not an established international player but are confident this decision will be overturned on appeal.

Assistant manager Carlos Queiroz played a large part in negotiations for Anderson and Nani, 20, as he and chief executive David Gill spent a frantic day in Portugal on Wednesday.
Manager Sir Alex Ferguson's No 2 believes the two new forwards will prove as successful at Old Trafford as Ronaldo.
Queiroz said: "Obviously we believe we are talking about two huge talents who will contribute greatly to the renovation we are undertaking in Manchester.
"Remember that the team only has four players in their thirties - Edwin van der Sar, Gary Neville, Paul Scholes and Ryan Giggs.
"These signings are the fruit of a long and detailed tracking of both players, as well as others who were considered. The key was that they both fit the profile we want - young, talented and with enormous potential.
"It is really worth just stopping and imagining what an attack formed by Wayne Rooney, Cristiano Ronaldo, Nani and Anderson could do. They are players who blend creativity and magic into football.
"We are in a continuous process of renovation and these purchases are part of this process, with the aim of building a team for the next decade.
"We're going to do with Nani and Anderson what we did with Cristiano Ronaldo."

United still want to add a striker to their squad this summer. It is understood they have made discreet enquiries to Bolton about Nicolas Anelka but also have Barcelona's Samuel Eto'o and Tottenham's Dimitar Berbatov on their list of targets.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-459068/Jose-agents-4m-jackpot-Anderson.html

UnitedIrishman

eZe^ wrote: »

Jesus H Christ, talk about being hypocritical. Have you been watching Lucas since the dawn of his playing time with Gremio then, making your opinion on him much more valid than any of ours on Anderson? Similar enough players, similar enough age, similar enough transfer time, similar enough potential. I don't get where this massive gap in class between the two has been clearly evident. Anderson has been absolute muck on more than a few occasions too you know.

Hold on a second. Where did I slate Lucas there? Where did I say my opinion was that of God himself? Stop assuming. I said last year I felt he was poor, this year he has improved. I'm admitting he has improved for christs sake.

Yeah Anderson has been poor too at times, but he has a lot more drive and cutting edge.

whereas Lucas should be judged and ridiculed now?

& people, please stfu moaning about the thread, if you don't like it, don't post in it. the fact it has 140 odd replies would suggest it merits discussion.

We could start 90 different threads on different footballers. Just can't see why it had to leave the Liverpool thread.

Fink Goddie

event wrote: »

you dont really bother me

but again, nice to see you prove your footballing knowledge by answering my post with well thought out counter points

So Bite me

Headshot

theres always one that walks into it

MementoMori come on the dailymail