Lucas "fu*king" Leiva

herbieflowers

What is Lucas' best position? Has he always been employed in the deep-lying role alongside Maascherano / whoever?

~Rebel~

herbieflowers wrote: »

What is Lucas' best position? Has he always been employed in the deep-lying role alongside Maascherano / whoever?

Thats largely what he's done for Pool, though dont forget his great game against Chelsea last season, he started behind Nando in Gerrards normal position, and scored.

For Gremio, he played like the young Gerrard position, box to box, plenty of activity, and if anything more attacking then defending. Whats strange actually, is that he was somewhat known for his shots and goals from around the edge of the box. Seemed to have a decent record of scoring them for both Gremio and Brazil underage when he was captain and led by example. He seems to have lost his shooting boots in more recent times, but he does regularly have a crack so hopefully he can get his mojo back.

Actually, this would be interesting for people to see, Lucas from his Gremio days, mostly his attacking attributes showcased.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYqKzNlxclw

Mr Alan

tis strange alright, remember him scoring a cracker in the FA cup as well when he first arrived.

MementoMori

Headshot wrote: »

theres always one that walks into it

MementoMori come on the dailymail

Normally I wouldn't trust them an inch but the reason I posted it was that it's a very detailed account of the transfer and seems to be well clued in on the various components. Wouldnt be surprised if it was the agent himself that was the source on this. It has the stench of verisimilitude to me.

A bit of a case of even a stopped clock being right twice a day.

MementoMori

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Thats largely what he's done for Pool, though dont forget his great game against Chelsea last season, he started behind Nando in Gerrards normal position, and scored.

For Gremio, he played like the young Gerrard position, box to box, plenty of activity, and if anything more attacking then defending. Whats strange actually, is that he was somewhat known for his shots and goals from around the edge of the box. Seemed to have a decent record of scoring them for both Gremio and Brazil underage when he was captain and led by example. He seems to have lost his shooting boots in more recent times, but he does regularly have a crack so hopefully he can get his mojo back.

Actually, this would be interesting for people to see, Lucas from his Gremio days, mostly his attacking attributes showcased.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYqKzNlxclw

On the goal scoring thing he scored something like 11 in 75 for Geronimo (according to Wikipedia) while he has scored 4 in 84 for Liverpool.

Whether that is as a result of tougher league/playing a different position, it is a bit of a disappointment. I do think this is one aspect of his game where we will see improvment in the future as he does seem slightly better in front of goal than the 4 in 84 suggests.

Chucky the tree

Fink, who would you have instead of lucas as are 3rd choice midfielder?

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

My personal view on Lucas is that he's an average player. Wouldn't get into any other of the top four's teams, or City, or a fully fit Everton midfield for that matter. He's improved on last year but it's taken a large amount of games to do so.

Yea and he doesn't get into Liverpools either, this seems to be a point every lucas hater seems to be missing.

Fink Goddie

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Fink, who would you have instead of lucas as are 3rd choice midfielder?

3rd choice, a minute ago he was 4th choice, at the moment he's 1st choice, what we needed was a replacement for Alonso straight away, not in mid November. I'd have Lee Cattermole or lorik Cana maybe.

Chucky the tree

Fink Goddie wrote: »

3rd choice, a minute ago he was 4th choice, at the moment he's 1st choice, what we needed was a replacement for Alonso straight away, not in mid November. I'd have Lee Cattermole or lorik Cana maybe.

3rd or 4th it doesn't matter. Also, is Lucas to blame for Rafa buying an injured player? Lee cattermole for £6m or Lucas for £5m and you'd pick Cattermole and think he's a better player then Lucas? Wow.

Fink Goddie

Chucky the tree wrote: »

3rd or 4th it doesn't matter. Also, is Lucas to blame for Rafa buying an injured player? Lee cattermole for £6m or Lucas for £5m and you'd pick Cattermole and think he's a better player then Lucas? Wow.

We could have had Cana!
Didnt say i blamed Lucas did i, its Benitez fault that we were out of the title race before we had a replacement for Alonso.

SlickRic

Fink Goddie wrote: »

3rd choice, a minute ago he was 4th choice, at the moment he's 1st choice, what we needed was a replacement for Alonso straight away, not in mid November. I'd have Lee Cattermole or lorik Cana maybe.

Cattermole would be an awesome understudy for Masch, or replacement whenever he goes. not for alonso.

Cana has proved very little yet, but also looks a very good prospect, with a bit of leadership exuding from him too. you can argue about the leadership part with this next statement, but he is very similar to lucas in every respect. good engine, keeps it simple, let's his creative players (Reid, Malbranque et al) do what they do. never overdoes anything, and can't really shoot, though he gets into less of those situations that lucas does.

for me, it shows how little you're actually watching lucas if you think Cana is a guaranteed improvement. he's really not.

whatawaster

Fink Goddie wrote: »

We could have had Cana!
Didnt say i blamed Lucas did i, its Benitez fault that we were out of the title race before we had a replacement for Alonso.

I ask you again, and again, and again:

How many more points would we be on if Alonso had played every game instead of Lucas?

- vs Spurs – he’d have made no difference.
- Vs Villa – Lucas was to blame for one goal. We still conceded three
- Vs Chelsea - ???
- Vs Sunderland - ???
- Vs Birmingham - ???

Lucas is not the reason we’ve been losing games.

Chucky the tree

Fink Goddie wrote: »

We could have had Cana!
Didnt say i blamed Lucas did i, its Benitez fault that we were out of the title race before we had a replacement for Alonso.

Cana is hardly brilliant either and wouldn't be an improvement on Lucas, certainly as no where near the potential Lucas has. when you watch Lucas play what do you expect him to do? You hardly expect a teams 3rd choice centre midfield to be able to play as well as there 1st choice do you? I really don't see the need for your hyperbole BS of "he not fit to weat the jersey", like Lee ****ing Cattermole is. :rolleyes:

The Muppet

whatawaster wrote: »

I ask you again, and again, and again:

How many more points would we be on if Alonso had played every game instead of Lucas?

- vs Spurs – he’d have made no difference.
- Vs Villa – Lucas was to blame for one goal. We still conceded three
- Vs Chelsea - ???
- Vs Sunderland - ???
- Vs Birmingham - ???

Lucas is not the reason we’ve been losing games.

Ask a question someone can actually answer and they might just do that.

Are you saying the current liverpool would not be a better team with Alonso in it?

SlickRic

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I really don't see the need for your hyperbole BS of "he not fit to weat the jersey", like Lee ****ing Cattermole is. :rolleyes:

less of the cattermole bashing.

he's going to be awesome.

he'd have been an ideal masch understudy as i've already said, just not Alonso.

*laughs at the thought of Cattermole spraying 50 yard passes all over the place*

Fink Goddie

whatawaster wrote: »

I ask you again, and again, and again:

How many more points would we be on if Alonso had played every game instead of Lucas?

- vs Spurs – he’d have made no difference.
- Vs Villa – Lucas was to blame for one goal. We still conceded three
- Vs Chelsea - ???
- Vs Sunderland - ???
- Vs Birmingham - ???

Lucas is not the reason we’ve been losing games.

How the f*ck am i meant to know what would have happened in every game if Alonso would have been there, come on now get real. All i know is Alonso was brilliant last season, stop trying to deny that him leaving hasnt had any bad impact, even Gerrard says he misses him. He was brilliant!!!
Lucas is one of the reasons, i didnt say the only one!!!!

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Cana is hardly brilliant either and wouldn't be an improvement on Lucas, certainly as no where near the potential Lucas has. when you watch Lucas play what do you expect him to do? You hardly expect a teams 3rd choice centre midfield to be able to play as well as there 1st choice do you? I really don't see the need for your hyperbole BS of "he not fit to weat the jersey", like Lee ****ing Cattermole is. :rolleyes:

Oh holy jebus, how many times do i have to say it, its NOT GOOD ENOUGH HAVING A 3RD OR 4TH CHOICE PLAYER PLAYING ON THE FIRST TEAM WEEK IN WEEK OUT!!!!

Chucky the tree

SlickRic wrote: »

less of the cattermole bashing.

he's going to be awesome.

he'd have been an ideal masch understudy as i've already said, just not Alonso.

*laughs at the thought of Cattermole spraying 50 yard passes all over the place*

We'd be in no better position then now if Cattermole was playing for us instead of lucas, arguable we'd be even worse off so if Lucas isn't fit to the wear jersey like Fink thinks then Lee Cattermole certainly isn't. Not a knock on the player, more a knock on Finks point of view.

SlickRic

The Muppet wrote: »

Are you saying the current liverpool would not be a better team with Alonso in it?

i'm sure he's not.

the point is more that lucas hasn't been to blame for our run of defeats.

the truth is we don't know how many points' difference Alonso would be.

our big players weren't so under-par last year for instance.

the rest of the team's form is of more concern to me than Lucas', that's for damn sure.

The Muppet

I see reference to Lucas spraying the ball around from midfiled, are we still talking about Liverpools lucas?

Chucky the tree

Fink Goddie wrote: »

How the f*ck am i meant to know what would have happened in every game if Alonso would have been there, come on now get real. All i know is Alonso was brilliant last season, stop trying to deny that him leaving hasnt had any bad impact, even Gerrard says he misses him. He was brilliant!!!
Lucas is one of the reasons, i didnt say the only one!!!!



Oh holy jebus, how many times do i have to say it, its NOT GOOD ENOUGH HAVING A 3RD OR 4TH CHOICE PLAYER PLAYING ON THE FIRST TEAM WEEK IN WEEK OUT!!!!

You said Lucas isn't fit to wear the jersey but Cattermole is better then him, do you think we'd be challenging for the title if Cattermole was here instead? Football is a squad game, if United lose Carrick, who replaces him? A 3rd of 4th choice midfielder. Do you think they'd come in and be able to play just as well as Carrick? Same with Chelsea and Essien, I suppose they can just drop in somehow and they be just as good as Essien and chelsea wouldn't feel the lose of essien at all. Again you said Lucas isn't fit to wear the jersey, fidning 3rd or 4th choice midfielder who are is very difficult. That the reason there 3rd or 4th choice in the first play, your criteria for wearing the jersey seems to be 1st choice or as good or else gtfo of liverpool fc.

The Muppet

SlickRic wrote: »

i'm sure he's not.

the point is more that lucas hasn't been to blame for our run of defeats.

the truth is we don't know how many points' difference Alonso would be.

our big players weren't so under-par last year for instance.

the rest of the team's form is of more concern to me than Lucas', that's for damn sure.

Slick, he is being pedantic with his line of questioning with Fink. Finks point is that Liverpool miss Alonso, I think it's pretty obvious that Fink is correct with this assumption, there is no need for the agressiveness over that point.

SlickRic

Fink Goddie wrote: »

Oh holy jebus, how many times do i have to say it, its NOT GOOD ENOUGH HAVING A 3RD OR 4TH CHOICE PLAYER PLAYING ON THE FIRST TEAM WEEK IN WEEK OUT!!!!

and how many times do we have to say that when one or both of your two first choice midfielders are injured, then you have little choice than to play that player week in week out.

buying aquilani was a risk benitez took, knowing he'd be missing for the first part of the season.

lucas has filled in very well...it is others who have been poor, not lucas.

and please don't capital your letters to make a point. no need to shout. that point's been addressed a hundred times. i know your stance, i just don't agree with it.

remember what i tell you, all the lucas-haters are going to be shocked when Masch is dropped for more games than lucas this season for Aquilani, such has been his better form between the two.

Chucky the tree

The Muppet wrote: »

I see reference to Lucas spraying the ball around from midfiled, are we still talking about Liverpools lucas?

Where did I make that reference?

mayordenis

Fink Goddie wrote: »

Oh holy jebus, how many times do i have to say it, its NOT GOOD ENOUGH HAVING A 3RD OR 4TH CHOICE PLAYER PLAYING ON THE FIRST TEAM WEEK IN WEEK OUT!!!!

Ok so if Alonso was still at liverpool and had got injured would it still not be ok?? please stop.

Fink Goddie

Chucky the tree wrote: »

You said Lucas isn't fit to wear the jersey but Cattermole is better then him, do you think we'd be challenging for the title if Cattermole was here instead? Football is a squad game, if United lose Carrick, who replaces him? A 3rd of 4th choice midfielder. Do you think they'd come in and be able to play just as well as Carrick? Same with Chelsea and Essien, I suppose they can just drop in somehow and they be just as good as Essien and chelsea wouldn't feel the lose of essien at all. Again you said Lucas isn't fit to wear the jersey, fidning 3rd or 4th choice midfielder who are is very difficult. That the reason there 3rd or 4th choice in the first play, your criteria for wearing the jersey seems to be 1st choice or as good or else gtfo of liverpool fc.

Yeh but you dont lose your number one choice, and replace him with your 4th choice if you want to be in the title challenge. One player can make a huge difference to a team, just like Torres, Gerrard and Alonso did. Take one out and replace them with a 4th choice and the squad is weakened.

The Muppet

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Where did I make that reference?

You didn't, don't know how that quote got there, I have removed it now.

Fink Goddie

SlickRic wrote: »

and how many times do we have to say that when one or both of your two first choice midfielders are injured, then you have little choice than to play that player week in week out.

buying aquilani was a risk benitez took, knowing he'd be missing for the first part of the season.

lucas has filled in very well...it is others who have been poor, not lucas.

and please don't capital your letters to make a point. no need to shout. that point's been addressed a hundred times. i know your stance, i just don't agree with it.

remember what i tell you, all the lucas-haters are going to be shocked when Masch is dropped for more games than lucas this season for Aquilani, such has been his better form between the two.

I'm not shouting, i'd be in trouble with my boss if i did, and he'd probably think shouting about Lucas during the day while in work was a little strange!
Lucas has filled in as well as Lucas can which is not good enough for a team with title aspirations, its Benitez fault, he should never have taken such a risk.

The Muppet

Fink Goddie wrote: »

I'm not shouting, i'd be in trouble with my boss if i did, and he'd probably think shouting about Lucas during the day while in work was a little strange!
Lucas has filled in as well as Lucas can which is not good enough for a team with title aspirations, its Benitez fault, he should never have taken such a risk.

Fink, typing in capitals is seen as shouting on the net, not just this site.


Can someone tell me who the players ahead of Lucas are if he is 4th choice?

Fink Goddie

The Muppet wrote: »

Fink, typing in capitals is seen as shouting on the net, not just this site.

No sh1t!!! i wasnt being serious!

Boggles

Honestly I don't know whether to laugh or cry when a player of Lucas's calibre is both celebrated and justified in here en mass by the majority of the scouse faithful.

I ownly realised how delusionally optimistic some fans on here are when I asked a scouse regular on here to sum up Lucas's performance against Lyon last week.

A glowing report followed by an 8/10. :eek:

Now 8/10's for me for central midfielders are reserved for the likes of Essien - Fabergas when they have an excellent game, 9's outstanding, 10's Unbelievable.

Screams of "Oh he has been or best player!!"

Well simply he hasn't, I barely realise he is playing at times, unless he pops up with the odd sideways pass or a fluff at goal.

And to be honest even if you think he has been your best player, what does that actually mean, ye have won 1 game in 9 matches.

Personally I think Lucas is not the problem, he certainly is a symptom but to blame the lad for Liverpools precarious predicement is unjust.

The real problem as predicted by me before the season is Masch and how he was going to sulk his way to Barcalona for the duration of the season. At this stage now, I'd bench the Argentian and let one of the young fellas have a crack, at least they are young and still care.

If by some divine intervention Rafa survives until next summer he will have a midfield partnership of Lucas & Aquilini with no even half tested backup. He will prob get thrown half the transfer fee for Masch, maybe 10-14 million.

Come to think of it, if I were a Liverpool supporter I'd be dillusional too, because lets face it the reality is too depressing.

So all together:

Chucky the tree

Fink Goddie wrote: »

Yeh but you dont lose your number one choice, and replace him with your 4th choice if you want to be in the title challenge. One player can make a huge difference to a team, just like Torres, Gerrard and Alonso did. Take one out and replace them with a 4th choice and the squad is weakened.

Again blame rafa. I don't see how this relates to Lucas. Lucas has come in, done a excellent job for what's been asked of him and has hugely improved on his form last season. I find it strange after all this the lads still deserves to be told he's "dross", "****", boo'd or told he's "not fit to wear the jersey". I really think that type of attitude from a supporters is very poor form. Everyone can say he isn't ready to be in the team of a title challenging team, I agree but I think if Liverpool had Gerrard and Torres fit for all of the season then Lucas would be a fine stand in for Alson/Aqualani for 15 or so games. But because we're missing Gerrard and torres goals/creativity is hugely missed and because Alonso/Aqua isn't around some fans seem to just think that since Lucas is picked as his direct replacement then it must be his fault Liverpool are in this mess which is BS.

Fink Goddie

Boggles wrote: »

Honestly I don't know whether to laugh or cry when a player of Lucas's calibre is both celebrated and justified in here en mass by the majority of the scouse faithful.

I ownly realised how delusionally optimistic some fans on here are when I asked a scouse regular on here to sum up Lucas's performance against Lyon last week.

A glowing report followed by an 8/10. :eek:

Now 8/10's for me for central midfielders are reserved for the likes of Essien - Fabergas when they have an excellent game, 9's outstanding, 10's Unbelievable.

Screams of "Oh he has been or best player!!"

Well simply he hasn't, I barely realise he is playing at times, unless he pops up with the odd sideways pass or a fluff at goal.

And to be honest even if you think he has been your best player, what does that actually mean, ye have won 1 game in 9 matches.

I agree with you to this point. Your point about Fabregas is spot on, how could Lucas ever get 8/10 for his performances, as i said these people are easily pleased

SlickRic

The Muppet wrote: »

Slick he is being pedantic with his line of questioning with Fink. Finks point is taht Liverpool miss Alonso, I think it's pretty obvious that Fink is correct with this assumption, there no need for the agressiveness.

that i agree with.

of course we miss Alonso, but this is all in the context of critiquing lucas.

others haven't stepped up in the team to compensate. i feel lucas has stepped up very well considering where he was a year ago especially.

Chucky the tree

lol, you never fail Boggles. 10/10 or "unbelievable" as you would say!

SlickRic

The Muppet wrote: »

Can someone tell me who the players ahead of Lucas are if he is 4th choice?

Gerrard's being included by some people.

mayordenis

Aye I can't really understand the 4 choice surely if you include gerrard then it's 3 positions the 2 DM spots and the one AM spot, and as such Lucas is 2nd choice for them all?

The Muppet

SlickRic wrote: »

Gerrard's being included by some people.

and the other two?

whatawaster

The Muppet wrote: »

Ask a question someone can actually answer and they might just do that.

Are you saying the current liverpool would not be a better team with Alonso in it?

how could you possibly deduce that from my post?

Fink Goddie

I think Mr Alan started the whole Lucas is 4th choice thing. If he was 4th choice he'd hardly ever be played which would be great.

Fromvert

Who says he's 4th choice? Whoever does hasn't a clue.

He is first choice at the moment and at the worst this season I can see him being 3rd choice.

Fink Goddie

whatawaster wrote: »

how could you possibly deduce that from my post?

Because you dont think we'd have any more points than we do have if Alonso was still in the team.

The Muppet

Fink Goddie wrote: »

I think Mr Alan started the whole Lucas is 4th choice thing.

AHH right, I should have guessed.

SlickRic

The Muppet wrote: »

and the other two?

you serious?

i'll say the obvious anyway...masch and aquilani.

The Muppet

whatawaster wrote: »

how could you possibly deduce that from my post?

I asked you a question if you wish to answer it work ahead.

SlickRic wrote: »

you serious?

i'll say the obvious anyway...masch and aquilani.

Nothing's ever obvious here, I'm just tring to understand the reasoning behind claiming he's fouth choice. I'm still struggeling with that, it appears to be quite illogical to me. Mayordenis appears to have a good grasp of the reality.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62977347&postcount=186

mayordenis

I think we all know his position in the squad anyway, putting a number in front of it is arguing semantics really.

whatawaster

Fink Goddie wrote: »

Because you dont think we'd have any more points than we do have if Alonso was still in the team.

Alonso was a marvellous player.

But Alonso wasn't a marvellous defender of set-pieces.
Like Lucas he was prone to giving away silly fouls (remember the 07 CL final?).

But if, by his mere presence at the club, Alonso would have cured Carragher, Skrtel, Mascherano, Kuyt, Gerrard etc of their poor form this season, then yes, maybe we would have a couple of points more.

SlickRic

The Muppet wrote: »

Nothing's ever obvious here, I.m just tring to understand the reasoning behind claiming he's fouth choice. I;m still struggeling with that, it appears to be quite illogical to me.

well masch and aquilani are 1 & 2.

lucas at 3.

some would put gerrard at 3, knocking lucas down a spot.

that's as complicated as it gets.

no need to be pedantic. you know full well what the vast majority of people are saying.

Fromvert

The Muppet wrote: »

I asked you a question if you wish to answer it work ahead.



Nothing's ever obvious here, I.m just tring to understand the reasoning behind claiming he's fouth choice. I;m still struggeling with that, it appears to be quite illogical to me. Mayordenis appears to have a good grasp of the reality.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62977347&postcount=186

Who has said that he's fourth choice?

The Muppet

SlickRic wrote: »

well masch and aquilani are 1 & 2.

lucas at 3.

some would put gerrard at 3, knocking lucas down a spot.

that's as complicated as it gets.

no need to be pedantic. you know full well what the vast majority of people are saying.

Don't Livepool play two center mid's so Mach and Aquilani would both be first choice .. No???

Lucas would be second choice.

Fink Goddie

SlickRic wrote: »

well masch and aquilani are 1 & 2.

lucas at 3.

some would put gerrard at 3, knocking lucas down a spot.

that's as complicated as it gets.

no need to be pedantic. you know full well what the vast majority of people are saying.

It is silly though, really he's second choice!

Kess73

Now fans of ther clubs can see what a total waste of time the Lucas debate actually is.

The exact same arguement every week without fail. Taking up page after page in the LFC superthread.

An extraordinary level of argument over an ordinary player. I dread to think what it would be like if he was actually a terrible player or really good player.


The internet really has a lot to answer for.