Lucas "fu*king" Leiva

Mr Alan

bUILDERtHEbOB wrote: »

Gerrard played centre mid against Burnley this season.

and Stoke afaik.

MementoMori

Daily Mirror have the£14m story as well - Would imagine that the Mirror are probably F365's original source.

Liverpool want an amazing £14million for Lucas
Published 23:00 12/11/09 By Alan Nixon

Liverpool boss Rafa Benitez wants an amazing £14 million for Brazilian midfielder Lucas Leiva - and plans to keep him despite needing to sell players.

The Kop chief has been approached by a couple of top European sides who hoped to exploit the Anfield cash problems by landing Lucas in a bargain deal.

However, hard-line Benitez wants the stunning sum for the 22-year-old who splits opinions among Liverpool fans but is always solidly backed by his manager.

Benitez knows he must move out players in January to bring in cash to strengthen his squad - but his sky-high valuation suggests Lucas is not one of those he will sacrifice.

Lucas has been a regular in the Liverpool side this season and even the arrival of Alberto Aquilani will not mean he is surplus to requirements.

The Brazilian will be watched by some of his admirers against England, but Benitez is steadfastly holding on to him.

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Liverpool-want-an-amazing-14million-for-Lucas-article220151.html

curry-muff

rarnes1 wrote: »

14m is cheaper than anderson cost united.

Thats because anderson is better

Sir Gallagher

curry-muff wrote: »

Thats because anderson is better

It's up to debate, i don't think there's much in it really, definately not 12m(which i'm pretty sure is the actual difference) quids worth of difference anyway.

I think you'll find Liverpool got the better deal there.

Racing Flat

Headshot wrote: »

I do love liverpool fans changing Gerrard's position to argue thier point, he is a striker end of

Some people on here like to make the point that Gerard is a striker. Just because he's played up front doesn't make him a striker. Football isn't as simple, or black and white as that.

curry-muff

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

It's up to debate, i don't think there's much in it really, definately not 12m(which i'm pretty sure is the actual difference) quids worth of difference anyway.

I think you'll find Liverpool got the better deal there.

I say if you put anderson in liverpools midfield in place of lucas, then they would be much better

Sir Gallagher

curry-muff wrote: »

I say if you put anderson in liverpools midfield in place of lucas, then they would be much better

I seriously doubt it, Anderson is hardly a world beater is he? Listen all i'm saying is there's not much between both players and Liverpool certainly got the better deal.

Quint

Headshot wrote: »

hold on here

lucas as iv said turned up against utd but in other games he has played bad, that doesnt mean he is better than the utd cm

I do love liverpool fans changing Gerrard's position to argue thier point, he is a striker end of so doesnt count

the same masch that has ****ed up a couple of times this season? yes great player but fletch is closer that you like to say
scholes is finished ya good one

he still miles a head of lucas

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
6 eeks! Gerrard is a striker? I've heard the lot!

dreamers75

i would like Sevilla to sign Lucas, the idiot fans are right lucas is ****e sell him tbh.


To Sevilla please


Him and Romaric would be sweet

Headshot

Quint wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
6 eeks! Gerrard is a striker? I've heard the lot!

so you honestly think he is a midfielder ?

Gerrard has developed over the last few years into a second striker, playing behind a main striker and with the freedom to roam, he has no responsibility to track back.

Racing Flat

Headshot wrote: »

so you honestly think he is a midfielder ?

Gerrard has developed over the last few years into a second striker, playing behind a main striker and with the freedom to roam, he has no responsibility to track back.

second striker / behind a main striker ... kind of like an attacking midfielder?

Do you ever see him up next to Rio or Vidic?

No responsibility to track back? But you'll often see him pick the ball up from the centre-halves, in his own half...


Where does he play for England?


How anyone can call him a striker, I just don't know. Even if you think he's a striker now if asked at the end of his career to describe him, you'd have to say 'he was a great midfielder' no?

Headshot

Racing Flat wrote: »

second striker / behind a main striker ... kind of like an attacking midfielder?

Do you ever see him up next to Rio or Vidic?

No responsibility to track back? But you'll often see him pick the ball up from the centre-halves, in his own half...


Where does he play for England?


How anyone can call him a striker, I just don't know. Even if you think he's a striker now if asked at the end of his career to describe him, you'd have to say 'he was a great midfielder' no?

he is a deep lying centre forward mate, come on I just dont know how you cant see it

the original question was comparing man utd and liverpools CM and I thought it was unfair to add stevie because I believe he has barely been in CM position for some seasons now

that's my last post on the matter because I dont want to be going off topic

___________________________________________________

the newspapers mentioned a figure of 14m for lucas, what planet are they living on, he is worth 50m at least

Tusky

I consider Gerrard to be an attacking midfielder - Liverpool play with a lone striker. I have heard Torres, Gerrard and Rafa mention it many times so they are obviously of the same thinking.

Lets not forget that Gerrard has about 400 odd appearances for Liverpool as a central midfielder. It was while playing in that position that he became known as one of the best around. Some people talk about it like he cant play there or something.

rossie1977

Headshot wrote: »

he has no responsibility to track back.

right, go watch the villa game at anfield it wasn't gerrard tracking back that night

Racing Flat

Tusky wrote: »

Some people talk about it like he cant play there or something.

I imagine some people talk about it to either demonstrate that they know a lot about football or to wind other people up.


Like Ruud Gullit - he finished his last few seasons IIRC playing centre half / sweeper. Would anyone call him a defender? ditto for Glenn Hoddle at Swindon, maybe even Trevor Francis at Sheff Wed?

If Carragher plays a few more games at right back, will people call him a full back?

Emperors new clothes.

anonymous_joe

Tusky wrote: »

I consider Gerrard to be an attacking midfielder - Liverpool play with a lone striker. I have heard Torres, Gerrard and Rafa mention it many times so they are obviously of the same thinking.

Lets not forget that Gerrard has about 400 odd appearances for Liverpool as a central midfielder. It was while playing in that position that he became known as one of the best around. Some people talk about it like he cant play there or something.

I think the problem with Gerrard as a central midfielder was that he always wanted to rampage forward and often enough ended up leaving gaps behind him, or simply doing too much and being too tired.

SlickRic

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I think the problem with Gerrard as a central midfielder was that he always wanted to rampage forward and often enough ended up leaving gaps behind him, or simply doing too much and being too tired.

true, and Benitez didn't like this part of his game, and felt it'd be more suited to a position further forward.

that doesn't change the fact that he was, and still is, a very good CM.

lucas is a safer option. Rafa likes safe.

anonymous_joe

SlickRic wrote: »

true, and Benitez didn't like this part of his game, and felt it'd be more suited to a position further forward.

that doesn't change the fact that he was, and still is, a very good CM.

lucas is a safer option. Rafa likes safe.

I actually disagree that he'd be a very good CM.

He can pass, tackle, shoot, run, etc. He has all the abilities, but he never uses them right. He's always too busy bursting forward or whatever. Hence the benefits of someone like Xabi Alonso who stays behind him.

I also think there's a kind of Raúl vibe with Gerrard, he's given way too much leeway sometimes. He's never been forced to fit a system, so he's been too indulged. Benitez built a formation around him, and it works sometimes (and he looks phenomenal) but he's not disciplined enough to play as a strictly conventional midfielder. He'd be too busy going forward.

Boggles

Gerrard doesn't have the disipline to play in the centre of midfield.

Houlier, Rafa and Capello were/are all reluctant to play him there for a finish.

population

I think Lucas would look very good in a team like Blackburn or Bolton. I think that is about his level tbh. Remember Oyvind Leonnardsen? Looked very good at Wimbledon, signed for Pool and was clearly a case of a player who looked better in an average team but when he took the step up he was not good enough.

Lucas is mid table quality, pretty much the same as Anderson imo. When I think of top midfielders in the Premiership my default setting is always Essien and neither of those players come anywhere close to him.

Nalz

population wrote: »

I think Lucas would look very good in a team like Blackburn or Bolton. I think that is about his level tbh. Remember Oyvind Leonnardsen? Looked very good at Wimbledon, signed for Pool and was clearly a case of a player who looked better in an average team but when he took the step up he was not good enough.

Lucas is mid table quality, pretty much the same as Anderson imo. When I think of top midfielders in the Premiership my default setting is always Essien and neither of those players come anywhere close to him.

naaa, disagree. Lucas just isnt great, not yet anyways. Thats it really

anonymous_joe

Trilla wrote: »

naaa, disagree. Lucas just isnt great, not yet anyways. Thats it really

He was a superstar at the same club as Anderson and once upon a time Ronaldinho.

He's definitely ok. Whether he'll be great, I don't know. I have a feeling he'll be Liverpool's Diego Forlan. Every United fan knew Forlan was decent, but it just wasn't happening for various reasons. Goes to Spain and becomes the world's best striker near enough.

Tusky

Boggles wrote: »

Gerrard doesn't have the disipline to play in the centre of midfield.

Bit of a myth. As I said, he played as a central midfielder for 80% of his career. I repeat, it was in this position that he gained world recognition and began to be referred to as one of the best players in Europe.

I think one of the reasons he often left space behind him is because it was usually down to him to score, even when he played in CM. He was expected to get forward and win games. If Liverpool had more top quality attacking players, I definitely think Gerrard would have the discipline to play further back, dictating the game.

Whether thats his best position is open to debate, whether he can play there effectively is not. Again - Its an absolute myth that Gerrard cant play central midfield.

Spiritoftheseventies

End of the day Lucas needs to increase his goalscoring ratio. We have two defensive midfielders in Mascherano and Lucas and therein really lies the problem. Go back to the teams of the seventies and there were plenty of goals coming from midfield.

Melion

Lucas is not a defensive midfielder, where the fúck has that myth come from? He was asked last season to sit back, he has had a lot more freedom this year because he has Masch beside him instead of Alonso. He gets in front of Torres 10+ times a game.

PHB

Gerrard can play central midfield. So can Rio Ferdinand. Both have, but I wouldn't want either of them in there if possible.

Rafa has struggled with Gerrard's best position for quite some time. He tried him on the right wing which worked wellish. He tried him in the middle which just wasn't working. He now perfected him up front with Torres in an amazing combo.

Tusky

Melion wrote: »

Lucas is not a defensive midfielder, where the fúck has that myth come from? He was asked last season to sit back, he has had a lot more freedom this year because he has Masch beside him instead of Alonso. He gets in front of Torres 10+ times a game.

Indeed, he does get into good positions and often makes runs into the box. Just needs to notch up some goals.

PHB wrote: »

Gerrard can play central midfield. So can Rio Ferdinand. Both have, but I wouldn't want either of them in there if possible.

Ridiculous comparison.

Rafa has struggled with Gerrard's best position for quite some time. He tried him on the right wing which worked wellish.

Because we had no good right wingers, but a great midfield combo of Sissoko and Alonso.

He tried him in the middle which just wasn't working.

Disagree.

Spiritoftheseventies

Also there's his big white toothy grin he flashes in every game. We could be losing ten nil and he would still be flashing it. Wipe that grin of your face lucas

whatawaster

PHB wrote: »

Gerrard can play central midfield. So can Rio Ferdinand. Both have, but I wouldn't want either of them in there if possible.

Rafa has struggled with Gerrard's best position for quite some time. He tried him on the right wing which worked wellish. He tried him in the middle which just wasn't working. He now perfected him up front with Torres in an amazing combo.

what a ridiculous comparison - Gerrard and Ferdinand.

Gerrard made a name for himself as a young player as one of the best cm's in Europe, and as an England regular.
Most of the top clubs in Europe were willing to pay 30m+ in 2004 to sign Steven Gerrard the central midfielder.

Boggles

whatawaster wrote: »

what a ridiculous comparison - Gerrard and Ferdinand.

Gerrard made a name for himself as a young player as one of the best cm's in Europe, and as an England regular.
Most of the top clubs in Europe were willing to pay 30m+ in 2004 to sign Steven Gerrard the central midfielder.

That was 6 years ago, he was 23. And to be honest I never thought he was much above the level of Murphy, infact I remember alot of fans at the time saying Murphy was better centrally.

I always thought Murphy and Hamman centrally with Gerrard on the right was an excellent midfield.

Anyways this has nothing to do with Lucas.

Sir Gallagher

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I actually disagree that he'd be a very good CM.

He can pass, tackle, shoot, run, etc. He has all the abilities, but he never uses them right. He's always too busy bursting forward or whatever. Hence the benefits of someone like Xabi Alonso who stays behind him.

I also think there's a kind of Raúl vibe with Gerrard, he's given way too much leeway sometimes. He's never been forced to fit a system, so he's been too indulged. Benitez built a formation around him, and it works sometimes (and he looks phenomenal) but he's not disciplined enough to play as a strictly conventional midfielder. He'd be too busy going forward.

How can a formation be built around a player who's position has been changed twice or three times?

This arguement is gas, gerrard cant play central midfield?? Pull the other one will yas, notice it's mostly utd. fans saying this, they'd have Gerrard in their midfield in a heartbeat!

whatawaster

Boggles wrote: »

That was 6 years ago, he was 23. And to be honest I never thought he was much above the level of Murphy, infact I remember alot of fans at the time saying Murphy was better centrally.

I always thought Murphy and Hamman centrally with Gerrard on the right was an excellent midfield.

Anyways this has nothing to do with Lucas.

Those people were idiots. Murphy was average for the most part for Liverpool.

Kess73

whatawaster wrote: »

Those people were idiots. Murphy was average for the most part for Liverpool.

Liverpool fans must be those idiots then, as Murphy was voted fan's player of the season two years running as ran by the official club site.

Now that does not say Murphy was a better player, but it does say that many Liverpool fans thought he did better over two seasons than any other player at the club.

As for Gerrard playing in a centre midfield role full time? That boat has sailed long ago. Given That Rafa has generally played him away from that role for three of the five full seasons he has been manager, plus for most of the games that Gerrard played this season, I think it is safe to say that Rafa does not see him as being the man for one of the CM roles.

Plus the fact that Gerrard's goal and assist returns have only been world class under Rafa shows that a lot of the talk of Gerrard being this world class free scoring midfielder before the Rafa years is to be taken with a large dose of salt.

People should look at his goals per season and his assists per season for the years before Rafa when Gerrard was mainly in the centre of midfield, then look at his returns for the season he was on the right, and for the two full seasons that he played behind Torres.

His best goal return when playing a season in the centre of midfield. Under Rafa it was 13 goals, before Rafa his best ever total for all comps in a season was 11 goals.


His best goal return when played mainly away from the centre midfield role? 24 goals last season, closely followed by 23 goals for the season he played mostly on the right, and then followed by 21 goals for his first season behind Torres.







1998–99 13 games 0 goals
1999–00 31 games 1 goal
2000–01 50 games 10 goals
2001–02 45 games 4 goals
2002–03 54 games 7 goals
2003–04 47 games 6 goals

Under Rafa
2004–05 43 games 13 goals
2005–06 53 games 23 goals On the right is main position
2006–07 51 games 11 goals
2007–08 52 games 21 goals Behind Torres is main position

2008–09 41 games 24 goals Behind Torres is main position

2009–10 13 games 4 goals Behind Torres is main position



Seems to me that if you want goals from Gerrard, then it is far better to have him away from the central midfield role rather than in it.

NukaCola

whatawaster wrote: »

what a ridiculous comparison - Gerrard and Ferdinand.

Gerrard made a name for himself as a young player as one of the best cm's in Europe, and as an England regular.
Most of the top clubs in Europe were willing to pay 30m+ in 2004 to sign Steven Gerrard the central midfielder.

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

How can a formation be built around a player who's position has been changed twice or three times?

This arguement is gas, gerrard cant play central midfield?? Pull the other one will yas, notice it's mostly utd. fans saying this, they'd have Gerrard in their midfield in a heartbeat!

whatawaster wrote: »

Those people were idiots. Murphy was average for the most part for Liverpool.

Kess73 wrote: »

Liverpool fans must be those idiots then, as Murphy was voted fan's player of the season two years running as ran by the official club site.

Now that does not say Murphy was a better player, but it does say that many Liverpool fans thought he did better over two seasons than any other player at the club.

As for Gerrard playing in a centre midfield role full time? That boat has sailed long ago. Given That Rafa has generally played him away from that role for three of the five full seasons he has been manager, plus for most of the games that Gerrard played this season, I think it is safe to say that Rafa does not see him as being the man for one of the CM roles.

Plus the fact that Gerrard's goal and assist returns have only been world class under Rafa shows that a lot of the talk of Gerrard being this world class free scoring midfielder before the Rafa years is to be taken with a large dose of salt.

People should look at his goals per season and his assists per season for the years before Rafa when Gerrard was mainly in the centre of midfield, then look at his returns for the season he was on the right, and for the two full seasons that he played behind Torres.

His best goal return when playing a season in the centre of midfield. Under Rafa it was 13 goals, before Rafa his best ever total for all comps in a season was 11 goals.


His best goal return when played mainly away from the centre midfield role? 24 goals last season, closely followed by 23 goals for the season he played mostly on the right, and then followed by 21 goals for his first season behind Torres.







1998–99 13 games 0 goals
1999–00 31 games 1 goal
2000–01 50 games 10 goals
2001–02 45 games 4 goals
2002–03 54 games 7 goals
2003–04 47 games 6 goals

Under Rafa
2004–05 43 games 13 goals
2005–06 53 games 23 goals On the right is main position
2006–07 51 games 11 goals
2007–08 52 games 21 goals Behind Torres is main position

2008–09 41 games 24 goals Behind Torres is main position

2009–10 13 games 4 goals Behind Torres is main position



Seems to me that if you want goals from Gerrard, then it is far better to have him away from the central midfield role rather than in it.

Thought this was a thread about Lucas?

Kent Brockman

Someone set up a pole please (with lots of options like pool fan or not pool fan etc) Would be interesting

mmafan81

With regards to lucas,i dont think he is a terrible player.imo his concentration lets him down a fair bit in most games.Saying that,i dont think he'll ever cut the mustard at liverpool.

As someone else said earlier i think if he moved to spain he might have a better time of it,i dont think hes suited to english football really,just takes a bit too much time with the ball

anonymous_joe

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

How can a formation be built around a player who's position has been changed twice or three times?

This arguement is gas, gerrard cant play central midfield?? Pull the other one will yas, notice it's mostly utd. fans saying this, they'd have Gerrard in their midfield in a heartbeat!

Not a fcuking hope I'd have Gerrard in our midfield. Where I would have him is ahead of our midfield behind a striker. However, we already have Rooney to do that.

As I said in one of my posts, Gerrard has everything you need to be a world-class central midfielder, but he doesn't want to be.

Kent Brockman

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Not a fcuking hope I'd have Gerrard in our midfield. Where I would have him is ahead of our midfield behind a striker. However, we already have Rooney to do that.
.

:rolleyes:I'm sure you could find a place for him:rolleyes:

leninbenjamin

Kent Brockman wrote: »

:rolleyes:I'm sure you could find a place for him:rolleyes:

tbh if you did that you'd end up impotent like the current England team, where you've Gerrard, Lamps and Rooney all looking for the ball in the same area and then getting in each other's way.

anyway, this is a Leiva thread. One of the reason's I always thought Leiva looked so average was that he was played in a more advanced role back in Brazil (dunno if that's correct or not, but all the clips i saw of him before Pool had him in this area). He seems a decent hardworking player, but just not cut out for the physicality of the role Benitez asks him to play imo.

jesus_thats_gre

curry-muff wrote: »

I say if you put anderson in liverpools midfield in place of lucas, then they would be much better

What are you basing this on? Are you saying that Anderson replacing Lucas would solve the problem of Lucas and Mascherano not being creative enough?

Now, this isn't me playing up Lucas, this is me questioning your assertion that Anderson would be much of an improvement - personally think that there is little or no difference between both.

Their stats:

Anderson - Played: Started 50 and Sub 24 - Scored: 1 - Assists: 10

Lucas - Played: Started 53 and Sub 30 - Scored: 4 - Assists: 10

In the same way that I don't get the fuss being made about Lucas apparently being ****e, I don't get how Anderson is meant to be some sort of world beater.

monkey9

Bump!!!!!!!

You're great, Lucas. Keep it up!!!

mayordenis

Lucas. Champ.

Mental Mickey

mayordenis wrote: »

Lucas. Chump.

Fixxed.

~Rebel~

Headshot

mickey what do you think of lucas?

monkey9

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Fixxed.

You spelt 'fixed' wrong, chump!!

~Rebel~

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_rq6TrnkDdZI/SWTPcCAkygI/AAAAAAAAQls/3ankLNZnUEo/s400/Daniel_Chloe_010809.JPG


Awesome.

Mental Mickey

Headshot wrote: »

mickey what do you think of lucas?

barely average.

monkey9

~Rebel~ wrote: »

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_rq6TrnkDdZI/SWTPcCAkygI/AAAAAAAAQls/3ankLNZnUEo/s400/Daniel_Chloe_010809.JPG


Awesome.

Hee Hee!!!! :pac:

mayordenis

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Fixxed.

I knew someone would do that,
Which means you are the guy who goes for the most obvious joke, which makes your post a failure, grats.