Lucas "fu*king" Leiva

Chardee MacDennis

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

That cannot be the same player :eek:

i know it's shocking..

missingtime

I think Lucas has been changed from the player we were expecting into the player Rafa wants.

It'l be interesting to see if he gets his game for Brasil and what role he plays

K-9

bigron2109 wrote: »

This man plays his heart out for the team..Although he is not as techinically gifted as some of the other Brazilians what he does do,he does it very Well..Once again yestereday he played his heart out in the Derby against Everton.Last ditch tackles and putting himself about the place.

Lucas is never going to hit a 40 yard pass like Xabi Alsono, He is never going to score a screamer like Gerrard, but what he will do and has done very well all season is put the foot in and got stuck in and try his best.Against Manchester Utd he was a class act...He didnt give them any time on the ball and hounded them down.

This man takes too much stick from people..I dont think people actually see this mans work work.Its unreal.When your at games you see more than what you see on the tele, and constantly he is tracking back and also trying to get forward,Stoke away being a very good example of him getting forward.

My point is,Lucas is never going to set the world Alight with cracking goals,or amazing Passes, but what he will give you,is determination,passion and a willing to work his socks off.The mans attiude is great too..When he was getting slated by the media, and also been booed by a certain section of Liverpool fans,he still got on with his game and never complained..Top bloke in my opinion and a very useful player..

There has been a few games recently where he has tried more through balls. A few were very close to coming of to. I think that part of his game will improve as he ages.

He benefited from the rest last week as well, he's had a lot of game time this season.

noodler

I have this horrible worry that Rafa takes all the natural flair out of players...

Nah seriously, they are different leagues and all but we should be seeing a little bit more of the above - not like there hasn't been enough appearances.

Ferris_Bueller

Jeez, the difference between him in that video and watching him play now is astonishing. Agree with what missingtime said above about Rafa changing his style of play, perhaps that was why he wasn't great his first season or two, but now he looks like he is much more used to the role Liverpool use him in.

SlickRic

noodler wrote: »

I have this horrible worry that Rafa takes all the natural flair out of players...

he only wants a couple in his team to have licence to do the likes of what Lucas did for Gremio.

it's just the way he wants his team set out.

the fact Lucas has changed his game, developing into a very good discriplined midfield player, says a lot about the mentality of the player, and why Rafa likes him so much.

Melion

Is there anyway we can get all the idiots who call Lucas a defensive midfielder to watch that video? Its one thing that really really annoys me.

noodler

SlickRic wrote: »

he only wants a couple in his team to have licence to do the likes of what Lucas did for Gremio.

it's just the way he wants his team set out.

the fact Lucas has changed his game, developing into a very good discriplined midfield player, says a lot about the mentality of the player, and why Rafa likes him so much.

Now I am being kind of hypothetical here because I didn't watch Lucas in SA and only have youtube to go by.

However, its not like with Andy Reid, say where he has benefited from some better management and now has a better work ethic to go with his natural skill. That side of Lucas' game appears to have completely gone. He has had more than enough games to show us it a little more regularly.

noodler

Melion wrote: »

Is there anyway we can get all the idiots who call Lucas a defensive midfielder to watch that video? Its one thing that really really annoys me.

LMAO at your high horse.

Thats exactly what he is at liverpool, for a couple of years now. Why on earth do you want people to judge him based on years old performances in a different league?

kryogen

Melion wrote: »

Is there anyway we can get all the idiots who call Lucas a defensive midfielder to watch that video? Its one thing that really really annoys me.

so you reckon the job he gets asked to do is not DM then?

Melion

Mascherano is a defensive midfielder. Lucas is not.

noodler

Melion wrote: »

Mascherano is a defensive midfielder. Lucas is not.

Eventually you have to start making these decisions on how they play in recent games and not ones from 5 years ago. Sorry.

The majority of Lucas' game is holding, he hasn't shown a great range of passing at Anfield and he doesn't get forward to any great effect.

Thats not knocking the lad - its just judging him based on what we have seen at Liverpool rather than on youtube clips in South America.

SlickRic

noodler wrote: »

That side of Lucas' game appears to have completely gone. He has had more than enough games to show us it a little more regularly.

i'm almost positive he's not encouraged to show that sort of flair in the position he's in, as it is not what Rafa wants him to do.

the team is more important than the individual and all that. i don't really agree that Lucas should be restricted, and wish he was given a bit more licence, but that's the reality of Rafa's tactics.

noodler

SlickRic wrote: »

i'm almost positive he's not encouraged to show that sort of flair in the position he's in, as it is not what Rafa wants him to do.

the team is more important than the individual and all that. i don't really agree, and wish he was given a bit more licence, but that's the reality of Rafa's tactics.

I am allowing for Rafa's rule of thumb here but you should still have been able to show a little more despite all the imposed restraint. Especially over a couple of years.

I mean when we are chasing a game (which happens a fair bit this season) or need to get the breakthrough - you would think some of his more natural abilities would start to shine through.

kryogen

Melion wrote: »

Mascherano is a defensive midfielder. Lucas is not.

your pretty deluded mate

He is asked to be a holding midfielder alongside Mascherano

I think you will be lonely in the opinion that he is not

Im not saying that is what he would like to be, or that it is what he would be best at(no need to debate that cause its irrelevant to what Rafa asks him to do)

But it is what he is

kryogen

noodler wrote: »

I am allowing for Rafa's rule of thumb here but you should still have been able to show a little more despite all the imposed restraint. Especially over a couple of years.

I mean when we are chasing a game (which happens a fair bit this season) or need to get the breakthrough - you would think some of his more natural abilities would start to shine through.

this is also true

Mr Alan

yep. its all Rafa. not like the premier league would be a tad more physical or anything. Lucas had to change his game, bulk up and get used to getting stuck in, over the last few months he has been combining this with a more attacking style of play than we saw from him before. It's all about developing him as a player, and he is rising it beautifully.

kryogen

Mr Alan wrote: »

yep. its all Rafa. not like the premier league would be a tad more physical or anything. Lucas had to change his game, bulk up and get used to getting stuck in, over the last few months he has been combining this with a more attacking style of play than we saw from him before. It's all about developing him as a player, and he is rising it beautifully.

surely you agree he is asked to play a holding midfield role along with Masch though?

noodler

Mr Alan wrote: »

yep. its all Rafa. not like the premier league would be a tad more physical or anything. Lucas had to change his game, bulk up and get used to getting stuck in, over the last few months he has been combining this with a more attacking style of play than we saw from him before. It's all about developing him as a player, and he is rising it beautifully.

Mr Alan

kryogen wrote: »

surely you agree he is asked to play a holding midfield role along with Masch though?

Yep, in the main that's where he's played. I wouldn't call him as defensive a midfielder as mascherano though.

Jazzy

hes far more mobile the mascherano and has a better range of passing. he sits in the 2 of a 4-2-3-1 and could therefore be classed as a 'holding' midfielder, if that term is bad language or something. mascherano is about energy and breaking up the play. problem is.......... where the f**k does £20m aquilani go ?????

SlickRic

Jazzy wrote: »

problem is.......... where the f**k does £20m aquilani go ?????

if i had my way, behind Torres with Stevie wide right should be tried at least.

jesus_thats_gre

Jazzy wrote: »

problem is.......... where the f**k does £20m aquilani go ?????

Against top 10 opposition, the bench I imagine. Certainly for this season anyway.

Mr Alan

i agree Ric, don't think Stevie would be too happy about that though. personally i think its a nice enough problem to have.

Tusky

Jazzy wrote: »

hes far more mobile the mascherano

Dont know where youre getting that from. Mascherano is actually incredibly mobile and is surprising fast. Hes just very disciplined in his positioning.

jesus_thats_gre

kryogen wrote: »

so you reckon the job he gets asked to do is not DM then?

He isn't asked to play a DM role. He is expected to perform defensive duties but he is also expected to take part in attacking play too.

Just watch any game from the past few weeks and you will see countless examples of him being the furthest player forward in an attack.

SlickRic

Mr Alan wrote: »

i agree Ric, don't think Stevie would be too happy about that though. personally i think its a nice enough problem to have.

if Stevie cares as much as he says he does, and for the record i think he does care, then if it benefits the team, and Rafa wants to try it, he should STFU and play there.

we've seen glimpses of Aquilani potentially being quite handy in that position.

jesus_thats_gre

Tusky wrote: »

Dont know where youre getting that from. Mascherano is actually incredibly mobile and is surprising fast. Hes just very disciplined in his positioning.

Indeed.

noodler

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

He isn't asked to play a DM role. He is expected to perform defensive duties but he is also expected to take part in attacking play too.

Just watch any game from the past few weeks and you will see countless examples of him being the furthest player forward in an attack.

So you wouldn't put his 'loss of flair' down to Rafa at all? Simply down to thge rigors of the League?

K-9

noodler wrote: »

So you wouldn't put his 'loss of flair' down to Rafa at all? Simply down to thge rigors of the League?

Maybe the quality of the opposition?

jesus_thats_gre

noodler wrote: »

So you wouldn't put his 'loss of flair' down to Rafa at all? Simply down to thge rigors of the League?

I didn't realise I had wondered into that argument

It wouldn't surprise me if it was down to Rafa. Rafa would be the type that wants the basics done right first and would expect you to cut out the fancy stuff if you weren't getting them right.

Oddly enough, I believe that that is exactly what he has done with the Liverpool team in recent weeks. He has stripped back all the nonsense and focused on keeping clean sheets first and not sacrificing the defensive strength of the team while attacking.

I think he has done exactly that with Lucas. Lucas seems to have got used to what is expected for him and has also developed some confidence. I think that he will continue to develop as a player and I think he will be a better player for it in the long term.

So yes, I think Rafa has restricted Lucas somewhat, especially in the first few months. Play a simple ball to keep possession instead of risking loosing possession by playing an extravagant, 30 yard, defense splitting pass.

Then there is also the pace of the league, the physical strength of the opposition, the increased level of fitness required and the dramatic increase in the general quality of the league.

Mr Alan

I agree wit a lot of the above. in order for Lucas to succeed at Liverpool, he has had to learn those things. If he keeps improving as he is, it'll turn him into a better player all round.

Rekop dog

I wonder if there's another forum in the world that has dedicated so much attention to one run of the day premiership player. Pretty impressive this.

Mr Alan

actually he's one of the top young midfielders in England playing for one of the top clubs in Europe. Hardly run of the mill stuff.

noodler

Mr Alan wrote: »

actually he's one of the top young midfielders in England playing for one of the top clubs in Europe. Hardly run of the mill stuff.

I think you overexaggerate.

Honestly, you are just giving the haters ammunition with statements like that.

Mr Alan

name me 3 better younger midfielders in England.

Rekop dog

Mr Alan wrote: »

name me 3 better younger midfielders in England.

Fabragas Milner Ireland

noodler

Mr Alan wrote: »

name me 3 better younger midfielders in England.

You know what? I am struggling - I admit it.

Unfortunately, it seems to be by more of a default. Most teams seem to have older players in midfield.

Fabregas obviously.

Ramsey possibly.

Huddlestone.

Don't think they have to be younger to qualify though.


EDIT: Denilson and Alex Song?

Mr Alan

ramsey?! wtf?!

Kimbot

Rekop dog wrote: »

Fabragas Milner Ireland

Fabragas is the only one there younger than Lucas. :P

Jazzy

Tusky wrote: »

Dont know where youre getting that from. Mascherano is actually incredibly mobile and is surprising fast. Hes just very disciplined in his positioning.

yeah i think mobile was the wrong word to use. i was trying to say creative without using the word creative
better vision of what positions to get into moving forward and more flexible when there

Mr Alan

huddlestone is older than Lucas too.

Jazzy

Mr Alan wrote: »

huddlestone is older than Lucas too.

cracking player though

Mr Alan

yep, very good player.

noodler

Mr Alan wrote: »

huddlestone is older than Lucas too.

I fail to see why this matters. Young, promising midfielders should be all that is important.

Mr Alan wrote: »

ramsey?! wtf?!

Well done, exercise complete eh? Name me some other promising young midifelders you say, we give you a bunch and you pick one out with a "WTF".

Kudos.

Mr Alan

sorry man, didn't mean to be so flippant mate, just don't think Ramsey has done near enough to be judged higher than Lucas. my point remains the same as the initial one, Lucas is one of the top young midfielders in the pl, there is certainly one better who is younger, but that's all i can think of. Few who are a year or two older who are better, but no reason to think that he won't keep improving and be just as good as them or better when if reaches their age.

Tusky

Mr Alan wrote: »

didn't mean to be flippant mate, just don't think Ramsey has done near enough to be judged higher than Lucas.

I like Lucas but im not sure I agree here. Ramsey always impresses me when I see him play. I think hes going to be an outstanding player.

Rekop dog

Exactly ^^ it's ridiculous nit-picking when there's only a few months between them.

Forgot to mention Lennon and Fellaini too.

The reason Lucas is such a enigma is because most fans seem to want put players into 2 catagories- rubbish or amazing. He's neither, he'll never set the world alight but he'll become more consistant and reliable in his role. I see him being similar to Scotty Parker or Phil Neville and there's no shame in that.

Mr Alan

i like the look of ramsey too, just rate Lucas' performances better this season. Ramsey looks exceptional at times, but also looks very poor at times (which is only natural considering his age)

Mr Alan

redkop, its not nitpicking, people were trying to list midfielders who were younger than lucas. you proceeded to list players who were older.