Lucas "fu*king" Leiva

noodler

Mr Alan wrote: »

redkop, its not nitpicking, people were trying to list midfielders who were younger than lucas. you proceeded to list players who were older.

Actually you made one post saying Lucas was on of the best young midfielders in the country.

I questioned it.

Then suddenly you asked for a list of better players who were younger. I am not sure why - comparable age should be fine.

Jazzy

Rekop dog wrote: »

I see him being similar to Scotty Parker or Phil Neville and there's no shame in that.

yes there is.

Mr Alan

noodler-i said he's one of the best young midfielders in England. he undoubtely is, be it top 3, top 5 or watever. redkop replied to the post about younger players by listing older players. You may not feel age is relevant as long as they are still 'young', but that doesn't change the fact, when redkop entered the conversation, it was in response to a question looking for better younger players.

Rekop dog

Jazzy wrote: »

yes there is.

You better accept it.

Mr Alan

i just realised your user name is rekop and not redkop, oops!

Jazzy

Rekop dog wrote: »

You better accept it.

hes a neville. he was born with original shame

noodler

I take your overall point Al.

I still think buying him for 6m at the age he was at and waiting years for him to mature (in the first team no less - not like he was dripfed games) was less preferable then maybe buying somebody more established for 6m + whatever financial value you place on the time acclimatising the lad.

Anyway, we are all in agreement he is improving - I just wish he was showing alot more going forward.

Mr Alan

i've been very happy wit his contribution going forward this season to be honest, he starts adding goals to his game and we'll have a hell of a player on our hands.

Pepe LeFrits

Hadn't looked in this thread in a while - expected it to be a whole lot more positive than it is. I don't understand the criticism he gets.

missingtime

noodler wrote: »

Anyway, we are all in agreement he is improving - I just wish he was showing alot more going forward.

I think this is a confidence issue myself. Could stem from the belief that if he ****s up it will be highlighted because of the stick he gets.

Hopefully he'll get more assists before the year is out.

Karmafaerie

So he's not in the top few young midfielders in the prem?

Well that's funny, what with him being in the top few midfielders of any age in some regards.

Tacklers______Team _______Tackles______Success rate
Thomas________Wigan__________117__________78%
Mascherano____Liverpool________108__________82%
Palacios_______Tottenham_______95__________74%
Lucas_________Liverpool________95___________65%
Cuéllar________Aston Villa_______85___________80%



Passers_______Team________Passes______Accuracy
Mascherano_____Liverpool_______1341_________83%
Fabregas_______Arsenal_________1312_________80%
Lucas__________Liverpool_______1276_________84%
Terry__________Chelsea________1246_________89%
Huddlestone____Tottenham______1236_________79%

Now we all know that stats don't prove everything, but when you're in the top five of passing and tackling in the league, as a central midfielder, you're doing something right.

noodler

Karmafaerie wrote: »

So he's not in the top few young midfielders in the prem?

Well that's funny, what with him being in the top few midfielders of any age in some regards.

The point has been made already.

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Now we all know that stats don't prove everything, but when you're in the top five of passing and tackling in the league, as a central midfielder, you're doing something right.

Yes but we believe out eyes for the most part and we know Masch and him play safe, tidy passes. I am not saying Lucas should be banging in matchwinning goals every week or anything but I certainly wish he showed more.

Masch is up there in those stats as well and we know he isn't very creative either.

I guess we will just have to disagree over him going forward this season Al.

mike65

Never trust passing stats, they count if they are 5 metres or 50.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Karmafaerie wrote: »

So he's not in the top few young midfielders in the prem?

Well that's funny, what with him being in the top few midfielders of any age in some regards.





Now we all know that stats don't prove everything, but when you're in the top five of passing and tackling in the league, as a central midfielder, you're doing something right.

Read tomkinsons piece on the website alright. Think he had him higher, was he not first in passing and passing percentage on his one. Anyway, yeah Lucas is a cracking young player and getting better.

copacetic

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Now we all know that stats don't prove everything, but when you're in the top five of passing and tackling in the league, as a central midfielder, you're doing something right.

I love lucas, but those stats are worse that useless. They are ranked based on number of attempted passes and attempted tackles. i.e lucas 65% success rate in tackles is much worse than Cuellars 80% but he is ranked ahead of him based on trying to tackle people more?

Karmafaerie

noodler wrote: »

The point has been made already.

Wow, you mean a point about Lucas can only be made once now?!
I'm so used to him being brought up over, and over again!

noodler wrote:

Yes but we believe out eyes for the most part and we know Masch and him play safe, tidy passes. I am not saying Lucas should be banging in matchwinning goals every week or anything but I certainly wish he showed more.

Masch is up there in those stats as well and we know he isn't very creative either.

I guess we will just have to disagree over him going forward this season Al.

Take a look at the guardians chalboard.
Cause if you think Lucas just passes safe in the center of the park, then you're wrong.

Very wrong.

Karmafaerie

copacetic wrote: »

I love lucas, but those stats are worse that useless. They are ranked based on number of attempted passes and attempted tackles. i.e lucas 65% success rate in tackles is much worse than Cuellars 80% but he is ranked ahead of him based on trying to tackle people more?

Because he gets around the field more?!

That he puts in more effort.
As in he covers more ground.
Harries players better.

kryogen

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Because he gets around the field more?!

That he puts in more effort.
As in he covers more ground.
Harries players better.

are you serious like?

they play in different positions, maybe you didnt know this?

he has less of a success rate, this makes him better though

Chucky the tree

mike65 wrote: »

Never trust passing stats, they count if they are 5 metres or 50.

Who cares if there 5 metres or even 1? Once they find there man it's what you want. I'm all amazed people scoff at a player who passes the ball short but keeps position when other players around him try go for a hollywood ball and make it 1 in 5 times and are lauded for being great passers. Like in any team sport keeping possession is huge. Once of the best goals in recent time came about from loads of short passes and keeping possession and heavily featured two of our own.

copacetic

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Because he gets around the field more?!

That he puts in more effort.
As in he covers more ground.
Harries players better.

says who? You can't give rubbish stats and then say they are valid because of random 'puts in more effort' statements. it's ludicrous.

either post valid stats or post opinion, random silly meaningless stats combined with random opinions implying stats that I don't see any evidence off is just noise.

Next you'll be ranking keepers based on the number of 'attempted saves' and justify it because they really tried to make loads of saves, but didn't.

Karmafaerie

copacetic wrote: »

says who? You can't give rubbish stats and then say they are valid because of random 'puts in more effort' statements. it's ludicrous.

either post valid stats or post opinion, random silly meaningless stats combined with random opinions implying stats that I don't see any evidence off is just noise.

Next you'll be ranking keepers based on the number of 'attempted saves' and justify it because they really tried to make loads of saves, but didn't.

What the hell are you on about?!!!!!


Lucas made more tackles.
That mean Lucas put himself in the position to make more tackles.
The players didn't run to him to let him attempt the tackle.
Lucas had to make the effort to do this.
It's not like a keeper in the slightest, so stop being ridiculous.

He ran to them.

He put in the effort to get there.

He put in more effort than almost anyone else in the whole league.

He has done that.


That is my valid point.
Lucas patrols the midfield and is in the position to tackle more than almost any other player in the whole league.

Tackles aren't like passes, assists, goals, as your team mates can't help you as much.

The opposition have the ball.
And you, the player, are putting in the effort to win it back.

mike65

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Who cares if there 5 metres or even 1? Once they find there man it's what you want. I'm all amazed people scoff at a player who passes the ball short but keeps position when other players around him try go for a hollywood ball and make it 1 in 5 times and are lauded for being great passers. Like in any team sport keeping possession is huge. Once of the best goals in recent time came about from loads of short passes and keeping possession and heavily featured two of our own.

Okay a poor choice of words from me, obviously they need to find the man but they still count if they are going sideways and backwards 5 or 50 metres as well. Such passes may or may not be contructive but stats wise make you look great. Ray Wilkins had a brilliant completed pass rate %.

noodler

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Wow, you mean a point about Lucas can only be made once now?!
I'm so used to him being brought up over, and over again!

Well try not to repeat something that was said 3 posts prior - thats overkill.

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Take a look at the guardians chalboard.
Cause if you think Lucas just passes safe in the center of the park, then you're wrong.

Very wrong.

I am not wrong about anything.

Don't spit your dummy out.

I watch the team play.

He doesn't contribute much in attack - that is the point - very few of his passes are key to any of our attacks. They are about as crucial as one of Carra's long balls.

noodler

Karmafaerie wrote: »

What the hell are you on about?!!!!!


Lucas made more tackles.
That mean Lucas put himself in the position to make more tackles.
The players didn't run to him to let him attempt the tackle.
Lucas had to make the effort to do this.
It's not like a keeper in the slightest, so stop being ridiculous.

He ran to them.

He put in the effort to get there.

He put in more effort than almost anyone else in the whole league.

He has done that.


That is my valid point.
Lucas patrols the midfield and is in the position to tackle more than almost any other player in the whole league.

Tackles aren't like passes, assists, goals, as your team mates can't help you as much.

The opposition have the ball.
And you, the player, are putting in the effort to win it back.

65% is kind of low, I would prefer he made more successful tackles and gave away less fouls.

Fink Goddie

copacetic wrote: »

says who? You can't give rubbish stats and then say they are valid because of random 'puts in more effort' statements. it's ludicrous.

either post valid stats or post opinion, random silly meaningless stats combined with random opinions implying stats that I don't see any evidence off is just noise.

Next you'll be ranking keepers based on the number of 'attempted saves' and justify it because they really tried to make loads of saves, but didn't.

Have to agree!
I love the effort statements too, sh1t if you paid any normal person the money he's on they'd put in the effort, doesnt mean they'd be any good. effort is something thats expected!!!

noodler wrote: »

He doesn't contribute much in attack - that is the point - very few of his passes are key to any of our attacks. They are about as crucial as one of Carra's long balls.

He'll never win a game for Liverpool, he plays the easy passing game. we need much more than that if we're gonna compete for the title!!!

SlickRic

Fink Goddie wrote: »

He'll never win a game for Liverpool,

he controls the game for us. without him, we probably wouldn't have won on Saturday for example.

Fink Goddie wrote: »

he plays the easy passing game.

myth.

his main job in the team is to keep the ball moving. that is what he has been asked to do. the forward passing is becoming a feature more and more.

Fink Goddie wrote: »

we need much more than that if we're gonna compete for the title!!!

Lucas was intergral to our impressive run-in last year, so no, we need players like Lucas if we're to win the title in the future.

by the way, I cannot believe people are giving him stick at the moment. fair enough when he's merely ok, i can understand it somewhat. but he was MOTM on Saturday just about; marginally behind Masch.

it baffles me, it really really does

Fink Goddie

SlickRic wrote: »

he controls the game for us. wothout him, we probably wouldn't have won on Saturday for example.



myth.

his main job in the team is to keep the ball moving. that is what he has been asked to do. the forward passing is becoming a feature more and more.



Lucas was intergral to our impressive run-in last year, so no, we need players like Lucas if we're to win the title in the future.

by the way, I cannot believe people are giving him stick at the moment. fair enough when he's merely ok, i can understand it somewhat. but he was MOTM on Saturday just about; marginally behind Masch.

it baffles me, it really really does.

As somebody said earlier, he's not that much younger than Fabregas, yet look at the difference in class!

btw, you're like my shadow today, i love you too xxx

Kess73

SlickRic wrote: »

he controls the game for us. wothout him, we probably wouldn't have won on Saturday for example.



myth.

his main job in the team is to keep the ball moving. that is what he has been asked to do. the forward passing is becoming a feature more and more.



Lucas was intergral to our impressive run-in last year, so no, we need players like Lucas if we're to win the title in the future.

by the way, I cannot believe people are giving him stick at the moment. fair enough when he's merely ok, i can understand it somewhat. but he was MOTM on Saturday just about; marginally behind Masch.

it baffles me, it really really does.

There were at least three players ahead of him in terms of MOTM on Saturday, maybe four. But that is not to say he had a bad game, it is just that quite a few players upped their game.

My own take on saturday is that Lucas had a good game, and did an awful lot of off the ball work, getting in blocks on players preventing them moving into space, and drew players to him with some of his runs.

Maybe on the tv he did not look great to some as he is not the kind of player that would stand out in a highlight reel, but I have no complaints about the job he did for the team on Saturday.

Handsome Bob

Jesus christ Fink, do you think a Cesc Fabregas is a dime a dozen?

copacetic

Fink Goddie wrote: »

Have to agree!
I love the effort statements too, sh1t if you paid any normal person the money he's on they'd put in the effort, doesnt mean they'd be any good. effort is something thats expected!!!

please don't agree with me, it makes me doubt myself.

My only disagreement was the use of pointless stats that prove nothing, they weaken the argument of anyone using them.

In my opinion Lucas has been immense this season as is easily amongst our top 5 players.

Chardee MacDennis

Fink Goddie wrote: »

As somebody said earlier, he's not that much younger than Fabregas, yet look at the difference in class!

btw, you're like my shadow today, i love you too xxx

omg he's not cesc fabregas! sell him, sell him now....

i think you'll find there is only 1 cesc fabregas...

Mr Alan

kess, Lucas was very impressive watching the game on the box too.

Fink Goddie

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Jesus christ Fink, do you think a Cesc Fabregas is a dime a dozen?

He's a good player yeh, would anyone deny that??

copacetic wrote: »

please don't agree with me, it makes me doubt myself.

My only disagreement was the use of pointless stats that prove nothing, they weaken the argument of anyone using them.

In my opinion Lucas has been immense this season as is easily amongst our top 5 players.

LOL, its ok i dont agree with you anymore! Immense is never a word i'd ever associate with Lucas!
And being in the top 5 players for Liverpool this season doesnt exactly say much anyway, most of the players have been fairly sh1t this season.

ThunbergsAreGo

Fink Goddie wrote: »

As somebody said earlier, he's not that much younger than Fabregas, yet look at the difference in class!

btw, you're like my shadow today, i love you too xxx

Who is bar three/four players in the world?

Fink Goddie

BastardPrince wrote: »

omg he's not cesc fabregas! sell him, sell him now....

i think you'll find there is only 1 cesc fabregas...

OMG he can put a string on short passes together and make the odd good tackle, keep him keep him, he's AMAZING!!!

Paul Tergat

The fact is that every successful team needs players like Lucas. They are like cogs in a wheel, it just wouldnt work without them

They won't set the world alight and of course will not be the first choice or be in line to start every game but when they do come in they do the job asked of them.

Steady squad players are such an important part of modern football. Lucas seems like the kind of lad who will just get on with his job and he wouldn't be complaining should he not start. Again, you need that from your squad players. He will continue to improve and expecting too much of him is just daft. Of course he has some faults but a lot of players do.

A team full of players playing the hollywood passes all the time just would not work. You need those to just keep things ticking over, pick up the ball and retain possession.

Kess73

Mr Alan wrote: »

kess, Lucas was very impressive watching the game on the box too.

Did not see him on telly, so thought that he may not have looked great on it going by some of the comments on here. But if his play was picked up on the telly too, then I cannot see why he is being slated for Saturday.

whatawaster

Fink Goddie wrote: »

OMG he can put a string on short passes together and make the odd good tackle, keep him keep him, he's AMAZING!!!

He's not amazing. But imo he was on Saturday. So good, that apparently the kop were singing his name. But what would they know.

Karmafaerie

noodler wrote: »

I am not wrong about anything.

Don't spit your dummy out.

I watch the team play.

He doesn't contribute much in attack - that is the point - very few of his passes are key to any of our attacks. They are about as crucial as one of Carra's long balls.

Hands up if you think Noodler didn't even bother looking at the chalkboard and stuck to his same old tired oppinions, without checking anything out?


*puts hand up*

noodler

SlickRic wrote: »

by the way, I cannot believe people are giving him stick at the moment. fair enough when he's merely ok, i can understand it somewhat. but he was MOTM on Saturday just about; marginally behind Masch.

it baffles me, it really really does.

I don't know how much more I can do, just because I am urging caution does not mean I am criticising him. Not letting the praise get out of hand yes but not criticising.

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Hands up if you think Noodler didn't even bother looking at the chalkboard and stuck to his same old tired oppinions, without checking anything out?


*puts hand up*

Not even going to dignify that with a response, the stats won't tell you he doesn't play a telling pass.

Tired old opinions? Because they differ from your wildly exaggerated ones?

Please.

Karmafaerie

Kess73 wrote: »

Did not see him on telly, so thought that he may not have looked great on it going by some of the comments on here. But if his play was picked up on the telly too, then I cannot see why he is being slated for Saturday.

Cause his name is Lucas Leiva.

noodler

Kess73 wrote: »

Did not see him on telly, so thought that he may not have looked great on it going by some of the comments on here. But if his play was picked up on the telly too, then I cannot see why he is being slated for Saturday.

I don't know, is this how rumours get started? Who was slating him for Saturday?

I mean you didn't see the words 'crap' and 'Lucas' in the same sentence did you?

Honestly.

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Cause his name is Lucas Leiva.

You are doing the precious Liverpool fan stereotype no good by replying to Kess and leaving out the fact he is not being criticised for Saturday (which you know damn well already).

Karmafaerie

noodler wrote: »

I don't know how much more I can do, just because I am urging caution does not mean I am criticising him. Not letting the praise get out of hand yes but not criticising.



Not even going to dignify that with a response, the stats won't tell you he doesn't play a telling pass.

Tired old opinions? Because they differ from your wildly exaggerated ones?

Please.

Who said anything about stats?!

Do you even know what the chalkboard is?

It shows you every pass he's made, in every league game, for this season and last.

You can see where the pass started, finished, and whether it was succesfull or not.

it shows you whether it was a forward pass, a backwards pass, or one that went sideways.

It's not stats.

It's the route of the pass!!!

Dickerty

p_larkin99 wrote: »

The fact is that every successful team needs players like Lucas. They are like cogs in a wheel, it just wouldnt work without them

Same applies to every business or operation. If everyone you had wanted more and more, wanted promotions and increases and opportunities, it would be a nightmare to manage. Lucas won't b***h if he misses a game, or demand more money, or spend all his time trying to engineer a move to Spain. He gets on with his job.

Kess73

noodler wrote: »

I don't know, is this how rumours get started? Who was slating him for Saturday?

I mean you didn't see the words 'crap' and 'Lucas' in the same sentence did you?

Honestly.

Well it seems a bit odd that a player does well in a game, and then when I come back and look in the thread, rather than the player getting credit for a performance, it seems to have quite a few people trying to criticize him.

Fair enough to criticize a player that did not perform, but the lad has been one of the more consistent players all season.


As for your is this how rumours start comment. There is no need for starting rumours as there seems to be plenty that will just roll out the same old lines about players regardless of what the player does on the pitch.

SlickRic

p_larkin99 wrote: »

The fact is that every successful team needs players like Lucas. They are like cogs in a wheel, it just wouldnt work without them

They won't set the world alight and of course will not be the first choice or be in line to start every game but when they do come in they do the job asked of them.

Steady squad players are such an important part of modern football. Lucas seems like the kind of lad who will just get on with his job and he wouldn't be complaining should he not start. Again, you need that from your squad players. He will continue to improve and expecting too much of him is just daft. Of course he has some faults but a lot of players do.

A team full of players playing the hollywood passes all the time just would not work. You need those to just keep things ticking over, pick up the ball and retain possession.

we should end the discussion with this post. if this isn't how you view Lucas, or at least something like this, you're wrong. it's as simple as that.

noodler wrote: »

I don't know how much more I can do, just because I am urging caution does not mean I am criticising him. Not letting the praise get out of hand yes but not criticising.

i wasn't talking to you on that one; i've had no problems with your criticisms, as you do confess he has been impressive enough.

Karmafaerie

noodler wrote: »

You are doing the precious Liverpool fan stereotype no good by replying to Kess and leaving out the fact he is not being criticised for Saturday (which you know damn well already).

Where did I say you slated him for Saturday?

I had to listen to a whole bunch of people I know slating him for Saturday.
I got a text during the game from a friend slating him when he made a solitary miss pass.

And just because of who he is.


I'm sorry noodler, but you're not the be all and end all.
The universe doesn't revolve around you, no matter what your mother may have told you.

SlickRic

Fink Goddie wrote: »

btw, you're like my shadow today, i love you too xxx

you wear Mr Alan out?

i've 'shadowed' you today, simply because you come out with stuff like below.

Fink Goddie wrote: »

As somebody said earlier, he's not that much younger than Fabregas, yet look at the difference in class!

Fabregas is probably in the top 5 players in the world right now.

very few are that good at that age, and most of them come out of Barca.

nobody's saying Lucas is as good as that.

but he's doing his job, and better than most at Liverpool at the moment.

including your idol Stevie.

noodler

Kess73 wrote: »

As for your is this how rumours start comment. There is no need for starting rumours as there seems to be plenty that will just roll out the same old lines about players regardless of what the player does on the pitch.

Thats very veiled but some of the same old lines do actually have some truth in them - his recent (well this season in fariness) surge in form hasn't transformed him 180 degrees. However, I praise him for his performances whilst recognising some of his limitations - it isn't the same thing as above.

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Where did I say you slated him for

Saturday?

I never said you did, but Kess said something incredibly vague and generic about people criticising him the lad for Saturday in the last few posts but nobody is doing that. I thought your next post would have set him straight on that rather than say something like "his name is Lucas Levia".

Karmafaerie wrote: »

I had to listen to a whole bunch of people I know slating him for Saturday.
I got a text during the game from a friend slating him when he mad a solitary miss pass.

And just because of who he is.

No one here though (maybe Fink).

Karmafaerie wrote: »

I'm sorry noodler, but you're not the be all and end all.
The universe doesn't revolve around you, no matter what your mother may have told you.

Again with your lies.

event

Kess73 wrote: »

Did not see him on telly, so thought that he may not have looked great on it going by some of the comments on here. But if his play was picked up on the telly too, then I cannot see why he is being slated for Saturday.

because people are idiots and people dont like to back down and admit they were wrong over the internet