Do You Think Cannabis should be Decriminalized in ireland

weedfreedomtinp

We need more marching to get our point across to our government ,

we should at least as a country be allowed to put this to vote ,

sign a online petition to legalize cannabis

http://www.petitiononline.com/0110/petition.html

our ideas from
http://www.legalisecannabis.ie

DeVore

An online petition is a good idea, because you will never get the stoners up from their couches....

I think it should be legalised as we effectively have it already with all the headshops selling smoke but I think thats the better of two evils. Ganja isnt without its side effects and that shouldnt be over looked either.

DeV.

yoshytoshy

What exactly makes weed illegal at the moment , for the man on the street ?
Do gardai actually pro-actively go around looking for people with some smoke ?

Can't see legalising it making any big difference here ,it would still be sold black market ,probably even easier than it is now.

ChocolateSauce

Yep, along with all the others.

oncevotedff

Sure. Decriminalise all drugs.

Taxing them to the hilt will just maintain the market for illegal drugs, just as there is a market for illegal cigarettes and drink.

Then I think that legal drug users should be registered so that when they lose their jobs and ruin their health they would be barred from being a burden on the state.

dlofnep

I would be in favour of legalising it. It takes the money out of the pocket of drug dealers, would contribute a great amount of tax to the economy and has proved to be minimal in terms of harm.

I would however be scared that if the likes of hash was legal, that drug dealers would push harder drugs in order to make their money as they would no longer be able to sell it.

Bottle_of_Smoke

dlofnep wrote: »

I would be in favour of legalising it. It takes the money out of the pocket of drug dealers, would contribute a great amount of tax to the economy and has proved to be minimal in terms of harm.

I would however be scared that if the likes of hash was legal, that drug dealers would push harder drugs in order to make their money as they would no longer be able to sell it.

Perhaps possible, but I don't think hash is actually pushed on any great level. To be honest not sure any drug is these days. Certainly there was heroin being given to kids in the schoolground decades ago but could they get away with that now?

arthie no no

yes, far more positives than negitive.

dlofnep

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Perhaps possible, but I don't think hash is actually pushed on any great level. To be honest not sure any drug is these days. Certainly there was heroin being given to kids in the schoolground decades ago but could they get away with that now?

Heroin is running rampant, and is most certainly being pushed. Hash was never pushed persay, but it certainly was influenced. When I grew up, alot of the local dealers would try get the younger lads to buy, and let them hang out with them to smoke a few joints with them.. Younger lads would obviously think that they were cool hanging out with the older crowd.

Mahatma coat

Yeah, but the theory would be that if the younger kids were hagin around in a Pot smokin Coffee shop instead of a Dealers Den the chances of them being encouraged onto harer drugs diminishes readily, als most of the Income that these guys generate is from Hash not Heroin, with coke and Pills fillin the balance sheets.

Remove the Hash and The Pills and you have seriously dented the operational budgets of these dealers, then just sit back as the wipe each other out in a short but bloody gangwar and let the cops arrest whoever is standing.

The State would have to power to pricefix, and would also have the capacity to import the products through legal chanels at a fraction of the cost of smuggling

philologos

I support keeping it illegal, we have enough problems with alcohol already let alone any other substance. I'd personally be for any police measure particularly ones that take the issue more seriously than it's already being taken.

Cork Boy

oncevotedff wrote: »

Sure. Decriminalise all drugs.

Taxing them to the hilt will just maintain the market for illegal drugs, just as there is a market for illegal cigarettes and drink.

Then I think that legal drug users should be registered so that when they lose their jobs and ruin their health they would be barred from being a burden on the state.

Well then lets remove treatment entitlements for everyone who consumes...

1. Alochol - a legal drug that does untold damage to irish society (apologies, untold damage done by irresponsible consumption of alcohol).

2. Tobacco - do i really need to explain?

3. Coffee - Chronic drinkers (3+ cups per day) will have awful heart problems.

4. Sugar - ADD (aka, spoilt little ****e hopped up on sugar), teeth problems, gum disease, obesity, diabetes.

There's probably loads more legal drugs i've left out here btw.

magma69

Jakkass wrote: »

I support keeping it illegal, we have enough problems with alcohol already let alone any other substance. I'd personally be for any police measure particularly ones that take the issue more seriously than it's already being taken.

I can't believe you even think that "sure we're bad enough as it is" holds up as an argument. How is keeping it illegal going to help? If anybody wants to smoke cannabis they just go and get it. It is almost as readily available as going to a shop and buying it. It's not like there are a massive amount of people who want to smoke it but cannot get it anywhere. I agree with you that we have a massive problem with alcohol but I don't see how keeping this illegal will help that in any way. In fact, if anything, it will help our out of control abuse of alcohol as legalisation may lead to cannabis being peoples drug of choice. Cannabis has been proven to be a far less dangerous drug on the user and society as a whole.

Nick_oliveri

Jakkass wrote: »

I support keeping it illegal, we have enough problems with alcohol already let alone any other substance. I'd personally be for any police measure particularly ones that take the issue more seriously than it's already being taken.

What exactly, in the context of cannabis legalisation, are the problems you would expect? Trails of thought like this are exactly why society (or Ireland) wont progress. And by that, I mean re-evaluating laws and statutes in all categories that either shouldn't exist, need to be changed or need to be enforced for the good of the many and not the few.

For example, I think it should be illegal to cause distress to an animal and for politicians to promise stuff and not come through on said promises. And they should show progress on such promises within a certain time frame or **** off. That's progress right there. This "if it isn't visibly broken don't fix it" attitude is holding us all back.

And to be honest, I think politics and "democracy" are a joke and need to be completely overhauled. This matter is one obvious example. You would think that the world being completley fecked over in terms of economy would stir such a "change". Change me hole.

Sand

Legalise it, plus whatever other drugs people want really. Tax it to offset to generate badly needed revenue, save Garda time, money and effort spent trying to protect people who are way too smart to get into trouble anyway.

Theres loads of benefits, but not much chance of it happening. Would startle the horses.

philologos

Despite the ramblings of the pro-cannabis lobby, it does incur serious risk in terms of mental health illnesses.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4305783.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4052963.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/oct/29/cannabis-schizophrenia-classification
http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/evidence99/marijuana/Health_1.html

This one also shows cannabis related crime:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-471106/Smoking-just-cannabis-joint-raises-danger-mental-illness-40.html

Dangers and possible uses of cannabis:
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/pdf_extract/294/6565/141

Cannabis damages reasoning ability:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2002/aug/18/drugs.drugsandalcohol

To claim that this is all mere mythology is absolute nonsense.

IMO cracking down on this is Garda time well spent to stop the taxpayer having to spend millions of euro in hospital costs. Keeping illegal means that the Gardaí can minimise the effect of substances on the population. Less people coming into contact with cannabis, means less people getting mental illnesses, and less people getting ill through other means via cannabis such as a weakened immune system. Alcohol's already costing us enough. We need a harder policy on drugs, not a lighter one.

weedfreedomtinp

thanks for all comments keep up the good work legalize cannabis ireland ,, lets get some more marching done this new year 2010

zootroid

Jakkass wrote: »

Despite the ramblings of the pro-cannabis lobby, it does incur serious risk in terms of mental health illnesses.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4305783.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4052963.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/oct/29/cannabis-schizophrenia-classification
http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/evidence99/marijuana/Health_1.html

This one also shows cannabis related crime:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-471106/Smoking-just-cannabis-joint-raises-danger-mental-illness-40.html

Dangers and possible uses of cannabis:
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/pdf_extract/294/6565/141

Cannabis damages reasoning ability:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2002/aug/18/drugs.drugsandalcohol

To claim that this is all mere mythology is absolute nonsense.

IMO cracking down on this is Garda time well spent to stop the taxpayer having to spend millions of euro in hospital costs. Keeping illegal means that the Gardaí can minimise the effect of substances on the population. Less people coming into contact with cannabis, means less people getting mental illnesses, and less people getting ill through other means via cannabis such as a weakened immune system. Alcohol's already costing us enough. We need a harder policy on drugs, not a lighter one.

I hardly think you can count the daily mail as a reputable source. And is it the responsibility of the state to go to this extreme of looking out for people's health? If that is the case, how come there are numerous other areas that don't get the same attention, eg alcohol related illnesses, illnesses related to obesity? People should be able to live how they want, so long as it does not harm others.

I think it should certainly decriminalized, which would free up resources for serious crimes. I would also like to have it legalized, but given that it's illegal in just about every other country, I would have reservations about this as it might harm our image and have an adverse effect on our tourism industry.

starbelgrade

Jakkass wrote: »

Despite the ramblings of the pro-cannabis lobby, it does incur serious risk in terms of mental health illnesses.

In a very small minority of users, continued substance abuse can cause anxiety, depression & paranoia. Compared to other causes of mental illness however, it's relatively small.

The amount of money spent on policing & legally tackling the "drug war" pales in significance to the amount spent on tackling mental health issues caused by cannabis use.

On top of that, it's money down the pan, as it does relatively little to stop the availabilty of cannabis is Ireland. A bit of weed is as easy to get as a few cans in the off licence, and easier to get than a few cans after 10pm.

One of the main health problems that we face with cannabis usage in Ireland, is that the quality of the stuff sold is very bad. The dealers mix good quality hash with everything from melted car tyres to glue & most of the grass is sprayed with glass particles which are inhaled by the users. Most of the time, cannabis users are getting "high" on toxins & not THC, the active ingredient of weed.

The same problem applies to all other illegal drugs sold in Ireland. It's not always what they are that cause the problems, but what's mixed in with them that really causes the damage.

philologos

zootroid: Deal with the rest of the sources then

RedPlanet

Jakkass wrote: »

Despite the ramblings of the pro-cannabis lobby, it does incur serious risk in terms of mental health illnesses.

Boo f*ucking who.
It is not a requirement that a legal substance does not have any side-effects.
Apply the same standard to alcohol and tobacco ffs.

philologos

RedPlanet wrote: »

Boo f*ucking who.
It is not a requirement that a legal substance does not have any side-effects.
Apply the same standard to alcohol and tobacco ffs.

It is a general expectation that the State would aim to keep the general population as safe as possible. I don't think I'm comfortable with legalising something that could result in a lot of people having schizophrenia, and not only that but the taxpayer having to foot / subsidise the medical bills to boot.

Legalising it would be more expensive than keeping it illegal.

RedPlanet

Jakkass wrote: »

It is a general expectation that the State would aim to keep the general population as safe as possible. I don't think I'm comfortable with legalising something that could result in a lot of people having schizophrenia, and not only that but the taxpayer having to foot / subsidise the medical bills to boot..

And yet you don't appear to have such problems with alcohol and tobacco.
Then lump in sugar, caffine and about a zillion other man-made chemicals we injest, or apply to our persons.
When was the last time you saw a warning sign indicating this chemical will cause damage to your liver, on a tin of lager?

Jakkass wrote: »

Legalising it would be more expensive than keeping it illegal.

Complete rubbish.
Got any links that demonstrate that?
The costs of keeping it illegal are staggering.
There are proven medical benefits of marijuana.

RedPlanet

Just like the USA, i think here (on boards) the argument has moved on from "do you think it should be decriminalized" to "What Do We Do Next?"
Petitions are an idea, albeit a crap one.
I think what should happen now, is that we get FG in particular, (and other parties) on board.
Is there any organisations out there lobbying political parties?

We can't do the same thing as the USA.
There, local cities even states are balloting for medical marijuana.
Meanwhile the Feds are supposed to be backing-off prosecuting federal law.
Here though, things like this are top-down.

One idea is that we could get a sort of NORML march to take place. Invite pro-cannibis organisations from other eu states to participate.

genericguy

Jakkass wrote: »

Legalising it would be more expensive than keeping it illegal.

utter shyte man, as usual. legalising would have initial costs, but this would offer a return on investment, as opposed to the continuous drain on state resources in attempting to enforce the current law. said returns would come from VAT, reductions in jail costs, legal costs and no need to allocate garda resources to defeat the 'scourge' that is cannabis.

your mental health links are muck aswell, the science behind those papers finds 'correlation', not concrete evidence. if those were to be accepted as fact, then i can also present you with correlations between puppy ownership, book-reading, and heroin addiction.

cop the fook on, seriously. whether or not you are in favour of legalisation, it cannot be argued that the worst evil in this country is alcohol. how many people stab each other to death at parties because they got stoned? nobody ever went home and beat the shit out of their wife because they'd had one joint too many. nobody ever dies from a cannabis overdose. the only reason recreational drugs stay prohibited is because our country is run by the vintners association.

there really is no argument against it once the bullshit propaganda is stripped away, and at the end of the day, there's no way in hell people should be going to prison for having a fit of the giggles and gettin ghte bleedin' munchies ffs.

Zynks

genericguy wrote: »

...there's no way in hell people should be going to prison for having a fit of the giggles and gettin ghte bleedin' munchies ffs.

Chocolate cookies and Coke* anyone?

(*cola, of course)

BTW, I strongly reject the suggestion that there are any benefits in maintaining the ban. Financially, it would generate income to the state and dramatically reduce income to dealers. Health wise, a regulated supply would improve quality and reduce side effects from added crap.

furiousox

Do You Think Cannabis should be Decriminalized in ireland?

Yes

nyarlothothep

Yes, it would be nice

zootroid

Jakkass wrote: »

zootroid: Deal with the rest of the sources then

First source:

The scientists, led by Professor David Fergusson, said it was likely cannabis use increased the chances of a person suffering psychosis by causing chemical changes to the brain.

Writing in Addiction, he added: "Even when all factors were taken into account, there was a clear increase in rates of psychotic symptoms after the start of regular use.

"These findings add to the growing body of evidence from different sources, all of which suggest that heavy use of cannabis may lead to increased risk of psychotic symptoms and disease in susceptible individuals."

I am not doubting the research, afterall, who am I to argue with a professor? All I am saying is that there are plenty of other things that have an adverse affect on our health, and I don't think it's the state's responsibility to ban them all. It's been brought up before, so I hate saying it again, but cigarettes and alcohol are legal, so there is definitely a double standard.

My own opinion is that it might be harmful, but I have never seen the harm it supposedly causes, and a lot of my friends would be heavy smokers (who still hold down respectable jobs). I don't think the same would be said very often of a heavy drinker.

And aside from any moral opinions I have on this (why should the state ban it when alcohol is legal), I think the economics of it deserve attention.

First of all, what effect has banning it had on its demand? Very little I would think. Perhaps even increased its demand as teenagers see it as a way of rebelling (in the same way they might start smoking cigarettes). I have heard that the dutch don't smoke much at all, and that it's mainly tourists who smoke there.

Secondly the resources of gardai, customs, and the courts could be put to so much better use.

Thirdly, if it were legal, it could be taxed and be a real source of income for the state.

Unfortunately I don't see any government in the near future decriminalizing it or legalizing it, as the opposition of the day would accuse them of "being soft on drugs". Any sensible debate is almost impossible as this phrase is always brought up. So things remain the same, the country still wastes huge amounts of resources, ignores a possible revenue stream, and criminalizes people.

zootroid

By the way Jakkass, I suggest you read reefer madness by Eric Schlosser.