Why do Irish men find Irish women so unattractive?

The Al Lad

AVERAGE STUCK UP IRISH WOMAN


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_TQmtZsLrDI8/Sjv4gPe0OcI/AAAAAAAAAeQ/1U2NkkHWjHw/s400/111007_ugly_woman_shirt.jpg

The Al Lad

double post

shqipshume

prinz wrote: »

Just want what's best for Irish girls The Irish look is massively popular at home and abroad. Just needs the attitude to match it.

Plus I'm sick of explaining it to friends who can't understand why they're single.

Well as an Irish girl and speaking from perspective as Irish girl,Any of the Traits you describe are not present in any of the girls i know.In fact i think in alot of cases they are overly nice and dumped upon by Irish men.

Here is a thought Irish men don't give a toss how they act around the Irish women,so therefore they approach Irish women brazingly.Were as with non nationals they have to approach them in less brazing manner.So the other nationalities are a little more receptive because they get the respect off the mark without a question.Where as the Irish women get the who gives a **** attitude and take them for granted.
In my experiences out i can honestly say the mannerism of the Irish male some not all but seems to be alot is brash forward and loud and assuming.

Any key?

prinz wrote: »

A couple of weeks ago a girl walking in front of me on o'connell st. fell and I just instinctively went and offered her a hand up. She told me to f*** off (in those words - and she wasn't some scumbag either). This has nothing to do with being chatted up by drunken guys, it's an attitude problem that ye're better than everyone else, that no one can say anything to you etc, if they do obviously they're jealous or insecure.

I find so many Irish girls I know needlessly hostile.I think most people in Ireland are really self conscious though. Some of my mates assume if a guy comes to chat them up that their either just locked lookin for a ride or their taking the piss(despite the girls are lovely looking and get chatted up frequently).

BIZARRE

shqipshume

Any key? wrote: »

I find so many Irish girls I know needlessly hostile.I think most people in Ireland are really self conscious though. Some of my mates assume if a guy comes to chat them up that their either just locked lookin for a ride or their taking the piss(despite the girls are lovely looking and get chatted up frequently).

BIZARRE

And where do they get that possible idea from,did you ever think of that :pac:

Abi

foodie66 wrote: »

Yet your posting on it...

so stupid!! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

This stupid argument has been done to the death.

Get a grip.

Any key?

shqipshume wrote: »

And where do they get that possible idea from,did you ever think of that :pac:

No I haven't dwelled on It..I guess Its their problem If they can't losen up and just have a laugh

The_Kew_Tour

I take most Irish girls to be fine. But I do find lot girls give guys including myself looks in clubs as maybe when walking by as if to say god never touch you kind attitude or im gorgeous and you guys all not good enough.

Been to many countries and it seems to be worst in Ireland. Even when lived in England they will always seem give you chance. Not every guy wants to go under yer knickers.

Girls here think there much better then they are but then again us Irish males have take some the blame as we dont really give dam how bad a girl looks at 3 in morning with us drunk to skull.:o

Joey the lips

Yes eastern european women are lovely i agree but I could never change my o/h for one. She was bought in a sale with no refund.

shqipshume

Any key? wrote: »

No I haven't dwelled on It..I guess Its their problem If they can't losen up and just have a laugh

Easy to say as a guy

PFJSplitter

As a Yank, I find Irish women quite fascinating. Heaven help those lads who think otherwise. The most pervasive and most common complaint from Irish lasses was that Irish men were so insensitive and discourteous, as witnessed firsthand in pubs, clubs, and events. As for myself, I've never been one to hold back a compliment, and, for reasons unknown, people were drawn to the 'yank' accent. Sure, it was the butt of many jokes and chides, but it made for interesting evenings.....

grenache

adrian280582 wrote: »

I take most Irish girls to be fine. But I do find lot girls give guys including myself looks in clubs as maybe when walking by as if to say god never touch you kind attitude or im gorgeous and you guys all not good enough.

Been to many countries and it seems to be worst in Ireland. Even when lived in England they will always seem give you chance.

Very true Adrian. I try to give Irish girls the benefit of the doubt in clubs at night. Some girls are nice and will chat to you. However some of the looks a few girls will throw you...well...if looks could kill! However i dont think these kind of bimbos go on sites like boards. Probably too busy being surrounded by their hanger-on drones, telling them how beautiful and gorgeous they are.

citizen_p

some good some bad....but its down to percentages

Rented Mule

PFJSplitter wrote: »

As a Yank, I find Irish women quite fascinating. Heaven help those lads who think otherwise. The most pervasive and most common complaint from Irish lasses was that Irish men were so insensitive and discourteous, as witnessed firsthand in pubs, clubs, and events. As for myself, I've never been one to hold back a compliment, and, for reasons unknown, people were drawn to the 'yank' accent. Sure, it was the butt of many jokes and chides, but it made for interesting evenings.....

Shhhhh ...don't give away any of our secrets.

We're just here you 'roid yer wimmin'.

gavney

liah wrote: »

So why don't Irish men see it? Why do they prefer Eastern European looks? Funnily enough, on average the Eastern European women I've met haven't had a patch on the average Irish girl.

Is it a case of me just liking the Irish look, and they're not actually that good-looking, or is it the perception of the female Irish attitude that makes Irish men not notice their looks as much?

Good question. Quick answer is that first of all Eastern European girls tend to carry themselves really well. Have you ever noticed how good their posture is? I find that really attractive.

I suppose I'm one of those guys who seems like he doesn't like Irish girls on the face of it - I'm 25 and I've had a 3 gfs, and none of them have been Irish! Also, I've kissed more foreign girls then Irish girls.


I have alot more luck with foreign women (though I'm by no means Don Juan!) But I think that's for two reasons

1. Foreign women tend not to be in big groups of friends when they're out. They don't know many people and tend to just have the one friend when they're out. This makes them alot more approachable. Irish women also seem to prefer to stick to guys they know, who are friends of a friend etc..


2. This may just be me, and maybe Irish girls just don't like me. But I've very often got an Irish girl's number on a night out. Texted her a couple times just chit chatting. Then when I ask them out - they blow me off (and not in a good way). They either like messing me around, or are just not interested in dating, or are afraid to go on a date. It seems for Irish girls, that the guy has to be 100% perfect before going out.

Anytime I've texted a foreign girl, we always end up going out. They seem to be more open to giving guys a fair trial. They'll even go out with me a few times, to get to know me, even if they're not too keen on me at first!


And finally, another little thing - AGE. Foreign girls don't seem to have this hang up about age. If you're even just a couple years younger than an Irish girl, they seem to have a major problem. Foreign girls seem to not mind so much

gavney

Lux23 wrote: »

Yes thats true and the only times I can remember seeing girls beng rude or when I have been rude is when the guy behaves like the above. So maybe the lads complaining here may need to rething their chat up routine, I do honestly believe its very rare for anyone to be rude to someone just because they are chatting them up.

I've had different experiences. And any time I'm out with female friends, I feel really sympathetic for guys that try to chat them up. Even if the guy is just friendly, they seem to think he's a sleaze, just for talking to them.

bigeasyeah

Crap idea for a poll.

Any key?

shqipshume wrote: »

Easy to say as a guy

but I'm a girl

opinion guy

Mr Yellow wrote: »

Canadian chicks are stunning...typically

hahaha - kissing up to the thread starter, eh ? :P

liah wrote: »

I'm not a particularly PC person

LOL - are you sure you're canadian?

right well I'm going to give an honest answer. I realise it may not win me any popularity contests, but i reckon honesty is better than popularity. But before i do - I'm generalising - I do realise there are exceptions. Never say never, never say always.

liah wrote: »

Just a note on that-- models typically have to be tall, not exactly a trait the Irish are known for

Hmm I've met a few models. have to say whilst they look stunning, the ones I've met at least seriously need to get over the fact that they are good looking. Which brings me to serious point number 1: good looking Irish women on average seem to think having a personality is optional. I mean in other countries I've met seriously gorgeous women who don't have a superiority complex and treat you as they would anyone else. Irish stunners seem to have that why are you talking to me peasant boy you are not of sufficient breeding!! now fetch me some wine type and be out of my sight attitude.



Point number two. I, generally speaking, prefer foreign women. But then part of that is that I prefer foreign people in general. Frankly, the Irish mindset does my head in - for various reasons. If I had to sum it up thou it would be a) culturalised alcoholism and b) the Irish habit of saying everythign indirectly. Seriously its like the entire country is dysfunctional sometimes. Probably thru years of oppression (no not by the British, by Rome!!) the entire country has a cloud of guilt over it that means none can say anything straightlaced. If people don't know what I mean go live somewhere else for a while. Say Germany. everyone is so direct its sooooooooo simple.

Third thing is. Irish Mammy's in Training tm. Oddly enough, many guys don't like being criticised about every little thing, told what to wear etc etc etc. Of course this happens in other cultures too - but maybe its just harder to spot with cultural/language differences etc etc. this extends to approachability also. irish women tend to be very passive aggressive when you don't know them and try talking to them. foreign women are generally more friendly. maybe thats just down to novelty or being in a foreign country and not knowing people thou.

Fourth thing is. Like it or lump it people from various other countries are generally slimmer/fitter than Irish people. And i say people cause this one cuts both ways of course (said as someone who is 1.5 - 2 stone heavier than i should be). Fit looking people are just generally considered attractive in Western society. Simple as. Of course part of all this is down to cultural alcoholism. part of it is the ****ty weather (I mean try going out for a run/hike/soccer match whatever this month. Much easier and less pleasant than a nice pint). kinda tough to compete with those who spend the summer beaching and the winter skiing


Anyhow we hear lots on here about how irish guys prefer foreign women and we should all burn in hell for it, but i reckon it cuts both ways too - probably as many irish women prefer foreign guys, they are just a little more subtle about it :P

gavney

bigeasyeah wrote: »

Crap idea for a poll.

29 pages of posts in the space of a week would disagree with you:D

Leprachaun

It's not that irish girls are bad looking. I guess people just like things that have a little exoticness to them. Foreign accents add to a girls attractiveness imo and although I know you can't lump everyone into the same basket, girls from other countries (at least the ones I've met in me travels ) tend to have much better personalities than irish girls. I guess in general they just seem too dull or 'samey', though of course there's plenty of exceptions. Ireland's a relatively small country so I guess that contributes to the lack of variation.

EDIT: I'm sure it works the other way round too. Irish lads/foreign lads etc...

Warfi

opinion guy wrote: »

b) the Irish habit of saying everythign indirectly. Seriously its like the entire country is dysfunctional sometimes. Probably thru years of oppression (no not by the British, by Rome!!) the entire country has a cloud of guilt over it that means none can say anything straightlaced. If people don't know what I mean go live somewhere else for a while. Say Germany. everyone is so direct its sooooooooo simple.

totally agree! Having spent time abroad and coming back home to Ireland, boy was I in for a culture shock! There's an undercurrent of 'If you don't behave the way we want you to, you'll be frozen out'.

The Irish excel at making someone feel welcome, however we suck at maintaining that welcome, in general. For example, johnnyforeigner in the pub can't believe how friendly his new Irish friends are. They've been buying him drink all night! So generous. What Johnnyforeigner doesn't hear though is those same people complaining about tight-fisted Johnnyforeigner, despite having not explained to the poor sod that he has to get his round in.

The_Thing

When was the last time anyone opened an issue of Penthouse magazine and found an Irish girl as the centerfold?

GalwayGunner

opinion guy wrote: »

Third thing is. Irish Mammy's in Training tm. Oddly enough, many guys don't like being criticised about every little thing, told what to wear etc etc etc. Of course this happens in other cultures too - but maybe its just harder to spot with cultural/language differences etc etc. this extends to approachability also. irish women tend to be very passive aggressive when you don't know them and try talking to them. foreign women are generally more friendly. maybe thats just down to novelty or being in a foreign country and not knowing people thou. :P

Couldn't agree more. Irish women can be fierce narky and judgmental. Also thanks to years of religious and social conditioning they're also far more repressed when it comes to anything to do with sex.

dsmythy

The_Thing wrote: »

When was the last time anyone opened an issue of Penthouse magazine and found an Irish girl as the centerfold?

Female population of the world v Female population of Ireland. Chances of a hit are tiny to begin with.

Sheeps

I prefer foreign women because they're easier tbh. Broad generalization here, but Irish women tend to be more up their own arse.

Sheeps

The_Thing wrote: »

When was the last time anyone opened an issue of Penthouse magazine and found an Irish girl as the centerfold?

Eh, hold on a second. I remember seeing a program about some Irish girl who went over to the states and became one of Hefner's Playboy bunnies.

Latchy

Originally Posted by opinion guy

b) the Irish habit of saying everythign indirectly. Seriously its like the entire country is dysfunctional sometimes. Probably thru years of oppression (no not by the British, by Rome!!) the entire country has a cloud of guilt over it that means none can say anything straightlaced. If people don't know what I mean go live somewhere else for a while. Say Germany. everyone is so direct its sooooooooo simple.

Very true which also might explain why we get frustrated with not being able to explain ourselfs properly without feeling we have to apologise or make excuses to others for how we feel .It is a form of oppression which may manifest itself with both sexs having a contempt for each other ie, '' you so remind me of my mam ,sister,brother dad or ....myself ''

Warfi wrote: »

totally agree! Having spent time abroad and coming back home to Ireland, boy was I in for a culture shock! There's an undercurrent of 'If you don't behave the way we want you to, you'll be frozen out'.

The Irish excel at making someone feel welcome, however we suck at maintaining that welcome.in general. For example, johnnyforeigner in the pub can't believe how friendly his new Irish friends are. They've been buying him drink all night! So generous. What Johnnyforeigner doesn't hear though is those same people complaining about tight-fisted Johnnyforeigner, despite having not explained to the poor sod that he has to get his round in.

I sometimes think the cead mile failte begins at dublin airport ,shows it's welcome to foreigners with a pint of guiness in the pubs but the maintinence needs to be worked on.

Acid_Violet

dsmythy wrote: »

Female population of the world v Female population of Ireland. Chances of a hit are tiny to begin with.

That said, google any famous stunner and chances are she has Irish blood in her.

JangoFett

I've found that sometime Irish girls are always looking for something better. I've had 3 girlfriends and two were Irish, one American, and the first gf (Irish) fantasised about some guy from her teens and wanted a threesome with him. And me in my total lack of self esteem put up with it.
The second girlfriend, Irish, cheated on me with her ex and used to say how attracted she was to metalhead guys, something that I am not.
The third gf, American, wasn't like that at all. She never looked elsewhere when we were together, she was happy with me.
I know plenty of Irish girls who bitch about their bf's and are constantly looking at other guys and drooling.

But, that's just my experience really

WindSock

The_Thing wrote: »

When was the last time anyone opened an issue of Penthouse magazine and found an Irish girl as the centerfold?

2 of the chicks in that new Ryanair calendar are Irish.

Acid_Violet

WindSock wrote: »

2 of the chicks in that new Ryanair calendar are Irish.

All the times I've flown with Ryanair, I don't even think there was one Irish member of the cabin crew or stewards!

Latchy

Acid_Violet wrote: »

All the times I've flown with Ryanair, I don't even think there was one Irish member of the cabin crew or stewards!

Including the Ryanair check in desk at Dublin Airport

damo

Irish women dont look after themselves like women in europe do. Bad diet and badly dressed....ive just moved to spain and women here make alot more effort, you dont see too many walking around in tracksuits and buying breakfast rolls. Irish girls tend to be very stuck up aswell although i think the recession might sort that out a bit.

The_Kew_Tour

Why do irish men find irish women so unattractive???

dont agree

well if you go to Coppers on Saturday (actually any night) you find most lads think Irish women are most stunning women they ever set eyes on. wanting to score with any women who they set eyes on.

ItsAnOmen

A lot of Irish women have taken it upon themselves to dye their hair blonde and smother themselves with fake tan, I really don't understand this. But the majority of Irish women are very sexy. You really can't beat the canadian girls though, they are laid back and most are very sexy.

sneakerfreak

because all irish men are secretly big fags and they love to smoke the cock

(note to admin fag is now a term for annoying harley riders)

Exon

Most Irish woman are unladylike - If I wanted that I'd hang around with the lads.

colsku

Irish women are rancid. Poor facial skin, over confidence, over weight, fake tan, too much make-up, paste-y, travel in packs, etc

sneakerfreak

not enough anal

its not just for birthdays u know

also irish men learn to have anal sex properly and stop scaring them off you are ruining it for the rest of us

G-Money

Exon wrote: »

Most Irish woman are unladylike - If I wanted that I'd hang around with the lads.

I have to agree. I've encountered a few irish women in my time and they remind me more of men. The way they talk, act, everything, it's very unappealing. For example, I was talking to this one girl and something was annoying her and she said "I felt like roaring". And I was like "roar?" Women don't roar. They're not all like that. But I find that sometimes they'd rather cut their arm off than give you a compliment or let you think they like you. But I don't think that's all of them.

And before someone flames me, I had a similar discussion with a friend of mine who is female and who is foreign. We were discussing Irish girls and how they are etc and the first thing she said was "they should buy clothes that fit".

Warfi

sneakerfreak wrote: »

not enough anal

its not just for birthdays u know

It might have something to do with 'Irish women being up their own ar*es'. How many things do you expect to fit in there?

The_Kew_Tour

grandmaster wrote: »

And before someone flames me, I had a similar discussion with a friend of mine who is female and who is foreign. We were discussing Irish girls and how they are etc and the first thing she said was "they should buy clothes that fit".

A girl I know who is from Spain said same thing too me the time she came visit here

sneakerfreak

spanish girls are just the smaller,wider,hairier versions of spanish men

Wagon

There's nice irish girls out there, but they are hard to find. In my experience the personality throws me off completely sometimes. As regards looks they look nice. but what's it matter when she has the personailty of a washing machine?

Ferris_Bueller

On average I find Irish women better looking then most other nationalitys, I can see where people are coming from with "buy clothes that fit" or they're masculine but that is only a small percentage of women IMO and it would more than likely be the same in most countries. I'm not a very well travelled person so maybe I can't compare as I'm mainly just basing this off women I see over here from other countries.

tbh I would imagine the average looking Irish woman is better looking than the average Irish man, again dont know how this compares to other countries really.

I would maybe find 1 in every 3 Irish woman good looking, but compared to women from other nations (in person anyway) it would only be perhaps 1 in every 5.

Would peoples opinions on this come down to whether they like change or not maybe? I'm a person who doesn't like change very much and avoid it unless I have to, maybe this is why?

Wibbs

ahhh time for a long one(as your ma said to me one evening)

opinion guy wrote: »

hahaha - kissing up to the thread starter, eh ? :P

Spotted that:D

Which brings me to serious point number 1: good looking Irish women on average seem to think having a personality is optional. I mean in other countries I've met seriously gorgeous women who don't have a superiority complex and treat you as they would anyone else. Irish stunners seem to have that why are you talking to me peasant boy you are not of sufficient breeding!! now fetch me some wine type and be out of my sight attitude.

Sadly I would agree as a general thing, but I don't think it's an innate thing, but has gotten so much worse in the last 15 20 years. I think it's an insecurity on the part of many Irish people. Many times their grandparents came up from the country from a hard life and worked damned hard to build a better future for their kids and their kids and part of that was for the kids and grandkids to disassociate themselves from that past.

Ireland had a large amount of elocution teachers in the past(especially for girls). You can still see that influence today. Generations were so scared to drop H's they put them where they don't belong. The Irish types who consider themselves "proper" will say the word Height as Heighth. There is no H at the end of that word people, so please stop. You will also notice the D4 type accents are stronger and more affected as a general thing amongst women(TV3 newsreaders are beauts for strangling their vowels to try and keep their past shining through). They're more socially mobile so will seek to fit in. This then has the knock on effect of an exaggerated snobbery which explains some of that behavior, especially among those with the extra selling point of physical beauty. It's mostly down to social insecurity. Made worse by the celtic tiger.

Then you have the drinking culture and the slobbering mess it so often makes of Irish manhood. That also makes women a lot more wary of being nice in case it's misconstrued as more. Understandable too.

Point number two. I, generally speaking, prefer foreign women. But then part of that is that I prefer foreign people in general. Frankly, the Irish mindset does my head in - for various reasons. If I had to sum it up thou it would be a) culturalised alcoholism and b) the Irish habit of saying everythign indirectly. Seriously its like the entire country is dysfunctional sometimes. Probably thru years of oppression (no not by the British, by Rome!!) the entire country has a cloud of guilt over it that means none can say anything straightlaced. If people don't know what I mean go live somewhere else for a while. Say Germany. everyone is so direct its sooooooooo simple.

I would generally agree with this. The Irish are afraid to say no. Theyre also afraid to say yes. We're a nation of Maybes with some nice patter tacked on. I see this in business all the time, so in dating it doesn't surprise me. And if I'm honest I have to catch myself from doing it too.

Third thing is. Irish Mammy's in Training tm.

Christ yes. Eject! Eject! Eject!.

Oddly enough, many guys don't like being criticised about every little thing, told what to wear etc etc etc. Of course this happens in other cultures too -

Yes it does. I would say the Latins are particularly good/bad at it. Irish mother? Try an Italian mother in training. Way more high powered and a lot more subtle so you dont see it coming. Irish women are pretty upfront about it early on to be fair to them.

this extends to approachability also. irish women tend to be very passive aggressive when you don't know them and try talking to them. foreign women are generally more friendly. maybe thats just down to novelty or being in a foreign country and not knowing people thou.

I'd say its that alright. Someone who ups sticks and leaves their home to move to another country is straightaway a different beast to one who stays put. Usually more open for a start. They kinda have to be. I've met Irish women abroad and they were the same. So I do think it makes a big diff.

Fourth thing is. Like it or lump it people from various other countries are generally slimmer/fitter than Irish people. And i say people cause this one cuts both ways of course (said as someone who is 1.5 - 2 stone heavier than i should be). Fit looking people are just generally considered attractive in Western society. Simple as. Of course part of all this is down to cultural alcoholism. part of it is the ****ty weather (I mean try going out for a run/hike/soccer match whatever this month. Much easier and less pleasant than a nice pint). kinda tough to compete with those who spend the summer beaching and the winter skiing

Again I would agree. The irish, men and women tend after the age of 20 to be more stocky and stodgy looking in general. The climate influences the food too I reckon. Salads don't look to great on a cold january morning. But its not so cold you burn off the calories trudging through snow keeping yourself warm.

Like I said earlier a bunch of 17/18 year old Irish can hold their own with the rest of europe at that age. Surprisingly given our small genepool, but we can. Fast forward 10 years? Nope I'm sorry but just nope. Not by comparison. Both sexes too. Take the focus off the ladies. Look at the men. I've gone out with a few gym bunnies in my time, so I've been in gyms here and abroad. Purely as an observer of course:):D. Spanish/French gym? You will see guys who look like a cast member of 300. Irish gym? You'll see strong men, but again they tend to be stodgy looking, not ripped. Dunno why. Maybe thats a good thing as they are functionally strong. There are a lot of Irish guys and gals competing in weightlifting and competing well. The women? Fewer small framed toned bodies on view. Much fewer in my experience.

It is something inherent to the irish lifestyle/climate/diet as I know men and women who have gone overseas and come back a few years later looking very different.

Anyhow we hear lots on here about how irish guys prefer foreign women and we should all burn in hell for it, but i reckon it cuts both ways too - probably as many irish women prefer foreign guys, they are just a little more subtle about it :P

Probably. I've always reckoned Irish women are great, so are Irish men, they're just not always great with each other as much.:)

Wibbs

sneakerfreak wrote: »

spanish girls are just the smaller,wider,hairier versions of spanish men

Really. I've gone out with two spaniards and have travelled there extensively and that would be completely wrong in my experience. Smaller yes. Much smaller in the chest for a start. Wider? You have to be joking. One ex of mine, one of her mates was known as gordita(kinda nice way to say plump/fatty, if there is a nice way) and she was a size twelve tops. Hairier? Again you have to be kidding, they're plucked more than turkeys in the last fortnight of december. Most of them seem to have brazilians and go for regular leg waxes and laser is very popular over there. All very cheap as demand is so high. Ditto with Italians BTW.

sneakerfreak

Wibbs wrote: »

Really. I've gone out with two spaniards and have travelled there extensively and that would be completely wrong in my experience. Smaller yes. Much smaller in the chest for a start. Wider? You have to be joking. One ex of mine, one of her mates was known as gordita(kinda nice way to say plump/fatty, if there is a nice way) and she was a size twelve tops. Hairier? Again you have to be kidding, they're plucked more than turkeys in the last fortnight of december. Most of them seem to have brazilians and go for regular leg waxes and laser is very popular over there. All very cheap as demand is so high. Ditto with Italians BTW.

have gone with a few (used to work in hotels and lived in staff quarters with them)

yeah im joking but theyre not all lovely,not by a long shot

Wibbs

Oh no they're not all lovely at all, but they're generally more toned and smaller. It depends on their background too though. Spain is very class ridden by comparison to Ireland I found anyway.