Retailers braced for major slump in Christmas sales

newman10

This Thread has gone off the point big time. What has the ESB to do with a slump in Retail Sales this Christmas.

Taxipete29

newman10 wrote: »

This Thread has gone off the point big time. What has the ESB to do with a slump in Retail Sales this Christmas.

Very little. Energy is expensive in this country but there are cheaper alternatives than ESB so to be attacking them is a nonsense.

You will find people are attcking them because they are a semi state body and the right wing here have a problem with the terms and conditions of their employment. It all comes down to jealousy really. They seem to forget that most ESB staff would have trades, degrees and various other qualifacations that they have worked for.

Here are some facts for those who have a problem with ESB and their wage bill.

You had a choice to go to college and study engineering or become an electrician.

You then would of had the chance to apply for a position in ESB

I assume those arguing here didnt do either so just get over it. The same people here that bang on about high wages then defend the rights of companies to make profits and the wealthy to hang on to what they earned. Lads the ESB makes a profit and still pays high wages.

Oh and the ESB doesnt set or cant chage their prices. The regulator does it. Campaign to the energy regulator. They are the ones with the power to change it.

_Kooli_

jimmmy wrote: »

It must be embarassing for the govt, and the Tanaiste in particular who sees many people in her constituency , to have to be borrowing so much money ( 25 billion ) + so much of it spent by the refugees going across the border ? We cannot even sell imported food + drink to each other now ?

Ive even seen herself and members of her family shopping up North. Our families are neighbors.

hellboy99

_Kooli_ wrote: »

Ive even seen herself and members of her family shopping up North. Our families are neighbors.

She's not the only FF TD / TD been seen shopping up north, preach to all of us to shop in the south, the big bucks they earn and even they are going up north cause they know we are being robbed here in the south :rolleyes:

Absurdum

it would be a nice scoop to photograph a few FF TDs doing their shopping there:D

donkey balls

Absurdum wrote: »

it would be a nice scoop to photograph a few FF TDs doing their shopping there:D

and i wonder what sort of crap excuse would they give

mikemac

On a fact finding mission of course

Peanut

newman10 wrote: »

This Thread has gone off the point big time. What has the ESB to do with a slump in Retail Sales this Christmas.

"Businesses ‘struggling’ to pay electricity costs

Oct 7 2009 - ... IBEC group Retail Ireland ... has called on the Government to cut all state-controlled electricity costs, citing in particular the need to compete with cross-border retailers."

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/businesses-struggling-to-pay-electricity-costs-102751.html

_Kooli_

Peanut wrote: »

"Businesses ‘struggling’ to pay electricity costs

Oct 7 2009 - ... IBEC group Retail Ireland ... has called on the Government to cut all state-controlled electricity costs, citing in particular the need to compete with cross-border retailers."

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/businesses-struggling-to-pay-electricity-costs-102751.html

Mates of mine work in IBEC and they always sing this when they are drunk.

"IBEC - Never a word of truth will you ever, ever hear out of us"

Maybe thats the first truth from them in years

Rev. BlueJeans

Thanks to those who have clarified the CER situation already.

It's easy to point the finger and bash on when you don't know the facts.

The electricity price foisted on ESBCS is about 30% higher than they would wish, due to the regulator's wish to nourish competition.

The thinking seems to be that once these competitors reach critical mass, the shackles can be removed, and a competitive market will be the end result. What will actually happen is that ESB will then revert to a "natural" price, and most likely the new kids on the block will fall by the wayside.

Only in this country, would authorities increase prices in order to reduce them :rolleyes:

By the way, there was no one quibbling when house bashing electricians were routinely making up to double what their equivalents in ESB Networks were on. Now that the situation is reversed, it's easy for people to point the finger at the big yellow target.

Absurdum

Rev. BlueJeans wrote: »

Thanks to those who have clarified the CER situation already.

It's easy to point the finger and bash on when you don't know the facts.

The electricity price foisted on ESBCS is about 30% higher than they would wish, due to the regulator's wish to nourish competition.

The thinking seems to be that once these competitors reach critical mass, the shackles can be removed, and a competitive market will be the end result. What will actually happen is that ESB will then revert to a "natural" price, and most likely the new kids on the block will fall by the wayside.

It's also worth noting that the government are left scratching their heads when they go looking for their (our) dividend from the ESB...and discover that much of it has now gone to the private shareholders of their competitors!

Peanut

Rev. BlueJeans wrote: »

...
The thinking seems to be that once these competitors reach critical mass, the shackles can be removed, and a competitive market will be the end result. What will actually happen is that ESB will then revert to a "natural" price, and most likely the new kids on the block will fall by the wayside.
...

...which is reason enough for the taxpayer to want to get good value for money. If the distribution network is a natural monopoly, then you can't rely on competition in the sector alone to push end-user costs downwards, even if regulator limits are removed.

parsi

jimmmy wrote: »

Why not get a job in the retail sector so ?
Or answer the question already asked : Why not set up a shop south of the border, and see if you can make a living out of paying Irish taxes + overheads ????????????????????????????????????????????????
It should be extremely easy + lucrative if all your competitors are ripping people off

Hmm.. does this mean that jimmmy is a retailer ?

It seems strange not to be jumping on the "retailers are ripping is off" bandwagon.

It seems to me that there is still plenty of fat in the retail sector - plenty of shopkeepers driving bmws and the like.

Maybe retailers need to wake up and realise that they can trim their profit demands a little and encourage business.

parsi

Peanut wrote: »

"Businesses ‘struggling’ to pay electricity costs

Oct 7 2009 - ... IBEC group Retail Ireland ... has called on the Government to cut all state-controlled electricity costs, citing in particular the need to compete with cross-border retailers."

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/businesses-struggling-to-pay-electricity-costs-102751.html

Remember that IBEC is actually a registered trade union - so their utterances are less fact and more hyperbole.

Dr Galen

parsi wrote: »

Remember that IBEC is actually a registered trade union - so their utterances are less fact and more hyperbole.

exactly

they're as much a vested interest as the PS unions and other such groups. If people chose to not believe a word from the unions mouths then it stands to reason that IBEC cannot be believed either

Peanut

parsi wrote: »

Remember that IBEC is actually a registered trade union - so their utterances are less fact and more hyperbole.

If you look at the start of the linked article, the IBEC line is responding to a report from the National Competitiveness Council,

"The NCC report says businesses are struggling to pay Irish electricity charges of 35.5% above the eurozone average and 28% more than in Britain, according to figures dating to the end of 2008."

The NCC is a "social partnership" body so you can decide what bias is there, if any.

thatsa spicy

Those retailers creamed it in the boom. This is the hangover. NOTHING good in life comes without a price.
Also, I'll be shopping up north to buy booze I don't really need. Also going to sneak drink into the pubs and niteclubs when I go out over christmas. Every man for himself I say. Cause thats the kind of selfish c'unt I am.

thebman

Peanut wrote: »

If you look at the start of the linked article, the IBEC line is responding to a report from the National Competitiveness Council,

"The NCC report says businesses are struggling to pay Irish electricity charges of 35.5% above the eurozone average and 28% more than in Britain, according to figures dating to the end of 2008."

The NCC is a "social partnership" body so you can decide what bias is there, if any.

Yes, in my workplace (office) we were ordered to turn off everything when it wasn't in use because of electricity costs. Keep in mind that this is a business that is expanding in a recession that has to try to save on electricity costs.

They have come down for ESB and they want to reduce them further but the regulator refuses.

The whole charge over the odds to encourage competition thing is bollocks.

I don't know what idiot came up with that. Comreg are the same with Eircom. We pay the highest line rental in the world for one of the worst services to encourage competition :rolleyes:

thatsa spicy wrote: »

Those retailers creamed it in the boom. This is the hangover. NOTHING good in life comes without a price.
Also, I'll be shopping up north to buy booze I don't really need. Also going to sneak drink into the pubs and niteclubs when I go out over christmas. Every man for himself I say. Cause thats the kind of selfish c'unt I am.

You sound like a well rounded human being. Have you considered entering politics?

old boy

Peanut wrote: »

If you look at the start of the linked article, the IBEC line is responding to a report from the National Competitiveness Council,

"The NCC report says businesses are struggling to pay Irish electricity charges of 35.5% above the eurozone average and 28% more than in Britain, according to figures dating to the end of 2008."

The NCC is a "social partnership" body so you can decide what bias is there, if any.

how do you expect the esbto pay some of their lorry drivers in excess of 70k a year

BlaasForRafa

thatsa spicy wrote: »

Those retailers creamed it in the boom. This is the hangover. NOTHING good in life comes without a price.
Also, I'll be shopping up north to buy booze I don't really need. Also going to sneak drink into the pubs and niteclubs when I go out over christmas. Every man for himself I say. Cause thats the kind of selfish c'unt I am.

Public sector workers creamed it during the boom too and you don't find them whining about their standards of living being attacked do you?.....

RiverWilde

The bald truth is that we do not have the population base to support the daft wage levels we have right across the economy.

After years of cheap money the business/medical/political classes got it into their heads that, 'they're worth it.' To borrow a shampoo slogan.

Frankly I'm not going to support it. My money is spent in the majority in NI and when it isn't spent there it's spent either in Lidl or Aldi. I will continue to spend my money in this manner until the business sector in the south realises that they are not bloody well 'worth it.'

Riv

thatsa spicy

Seriously though, spending money down south is just prolonging the price adjustment period. People are free to spend where they can get their goods cheapest, so its inevitable that they will spend up north eventually.

You see, the goods sold down south simply arn't worth the prices being asked for them. And its not my responsibility to support the incomes of the traders just for the sake of some vague notion of "patriotism". Just 3 years ago, if you had tried to haggle with these same people you would have laughed out of it and told to take your business elsewhere. Where was their sense of community spirit then? Instead, the stupid pricks got greedier and greedier and raised their prices even higher.

Another thing; you think border town businesses arn't going to, themselves, purchase goods up north to reduce their own costs? Hypocrite bastards.

I'll give my money to whoever can provide me with a good for the lowest price ie. Sainsburys.

1huge1

thatsa spicy wrote: »

Seriously though, spending money down south is just prolonging the price adjustment period. People are free to spend where they can get their goods cheapest, so its inevitable that they will spend up north eventually.

You see, the goods sold down south simply arn't worth the prices being asked for them. And its not my responsibility to support the incomes of the traders just for the sake of some vague notion of "patriotism". Just 3 years ago, if you had tried to haggle with these same people you would have laughed out of it and told to take your business elsewhere. Where was their sense of community spirit then? Instead, the stupid pricks got greedier and greedier and raised their prices even higher.

Another thing; you think border town businesses arn't going to, themselves, purchase goods up north to reduce their own costs? Hypocrite bastards.

I'll give my money to whoever can provide me with a good for the lowest price ie. Sainsburys.

Couldn't of put it better myself

Scofflaw

There was a lot of off-topic and unacceptably personal discussion there, and it's been deleted.

moderately,
Scofflaw

thebman

thatsa spicy wrote: »

Seriously though, spending money down south is just prolonging the price adjustment period. People are free to spend where they can get their goods cheapest, so its inevitable that they will spend up north eventually.

You see, the goods sold down south simply arn't worth the prices being asked for them. And its not my responsibility to support the incomes of the traders just for the sake of some vague notion of "patriotism". Just 3 years ago, if you had tried to haggle with these same people you would have laughed out of it and told to take your business elsewhere. Where was their sense of community spirit then? Instead, the stupid pricks got greedier and greedier and raised their prices even higher.

Another thing; you think border town businesses arn't going to, themselves, purchase goods up north to reduce their own costs? Hypocrite bastards.

I'll give my money to whoever can provide me with a good for the lowest price ie. Sainsburys.

Yeah this is the logic of most people it seems and its a shame for any Irish business actually not trying to rip people off but having to put up with extra expenses on day to day running cost and has to pass these on in their price.

But you can't fault anyone for going up north. It wouldn't pay me but I can see how it would benefit a family this Christmas like my parents although they won't do it because they have the money and would want to support local businesses.

senordingdong

jimmmy wrote: »

If the govt brought down the minimum wage here + the dole it would help, but its too late for many people / businesses.

Incorrect, lowering wages and dole payments will not help anything untill all the aforementioned costs come down too.

hellboy99

I bought a TV in Curry's last year, in Curry's here in the south it was €1100 and up north the same TV was £800.

Before I went up north to get it I went into my local Curry's to ask if they would match the price or give a discount, I got told no to both, the sales guy wouldn't even throw in a HDMI cable for free , so up north I went of course.

Going into the northern store was like walking into a different business, staff were all very friendly, the sales guy I dealt with gave me a HDMI cable worth £40 for free, I bought a few other bits bringing the total to just over a £1000 and at the till he gave me a 10% discount. Is it any wonder people are going up north and businesses are losing out here.

parsi

old boy wrote: »

how do you expect the esbto pay some of their lorry drivers in excess of 70k a year

The ESB's competitors aren't ridden with / by Unions but yet they aren't significantly cheaper either.

Surely IBEC members should all be thronging to union-free airtricity or maybe airtricity are happy in their niche screwing us.

Macha

Sorry to drag this issue up again but I'd rather not start a new thread.

My question is about competitiveness vs supporting the local/Irish economy. As I understand it, the more money spent by Irish consumers the better for our economy. But then again, this can lead to inefficiencies in the market (ie high, uncompetitive prices). So is there any sort of maximum premium that the consumer can consider to balance out these ideas?

I read an article about a town in the US where Borders wanted to open a large store. The local bookshops in the town commissioned a report that showed that of every $100 spent in their shops, c.60% (can't remember exactly how much) would stay in the local economy but for every $100 spent in Borders, only $20 (or so) would stay in the local economy.

So how much of a premium is it worth paying for Irish goods to support the local economy, but also ensure you're not encouraging inefficiencies?

Scofflaw

taconnol wrote: »

Sorry to drag this issue up again but I'd rather not start a new thread.

My question is about competitiveness vs supporting the local/Irish economy. As I understand it, the more money spent by Irish consumers the better for our economy. But then again, this can lead to inefficiencies in the market (ie high, uncompetitive prices). So is there any sort of maximum premium that the consumer can consider to balance out these ideas?

I read an article about a town in the US where Borders wanted to open a large store. The local bookshops in the town commissioned a report that showed that of every $100 spent in their shops, c.60% (can't remember exactly how much) would stay in the local economy but for every $100 spent in Borders, only $20 (or so) would stay in the local economy.

So how much of a premium is it worth paying for Irish goods to support the local economy, but also ensure you're not encouraging inefficiencies?

One for the economists, really, but I don't think you can pay a premium for Irish goods or services without encouraging inefficiencies.

cordially,
Scofflaw