New Courts of Criminnal Justice at Parkgate St.

tominkerry

Hi, I have my previous home for sale right beside this at Montpelier Hill for about six months now. The agency seems to be sitting on their laurels waiting for this new court complex to open and the effect it will have on the area - I'm told it will open later this month. And ideas on how it (court complex) might affect the demographic and whom we (I) should target and how? Many thanks

stepbar

tominkerry wrote: »

Hi, I have my previous home for sale right beside this at Montpelier Hill for about six months now. The agency seems to be sitting on their laurels waiting for this new court complex to open and the effect it will have on the area - I'm told it will open later this month. And ideas on how it (court complex) might affect the demographic and whom we (I) should target and how? Many thanks

No offence but if you and your estate agent are banking on a court complex to inflate the value of your property then you're both deluded.

If it's the house I think it is - http://www.myhome.ie/residential/search/brochure/apt-21-montpelier-mews-stoneybatter-dublin-co&-city/TULLK398040 - It's about 70k overpriced based on a rental yield of 6% and a income of c1k p.m.

And adding to that, you'd be lucky to rent it for 1k considering apts / houses in the area are renting for less e.g http://www.myhome2let.ie/search/brochure_properties.asp?prop_ID=177495

I would feel your apartment is overvalued somewhere between 70 - 100k (depending on your outlook of how rentable it would be).

RATM

Yeah Id agree with Stepbar. The new court will bring more money to the area for the pubs/restaurants on Parkgate Street during the day but it wont have any major effect on the property market.

If you think well heeled barrister types are going to move into the area and inflate prices you are very much mistaken. For one there is already an excellent public transport link there in the Luas so those solicitors and barristers frequenting the new court will most likely use that from their offices further down the quays.

And besides with O'Devaneys Gardens on your doorstep living in that area is hardly an attractive prospect- I know coz I worked in a pub down that way for a few years and the scum element around there is far from nice at nightime. Now that the council flats arent getting redeveloped you can expect that the area isnt going to improve anytime soon. I'd sell for whatever price you can get- if Im wrong and there is a bit of a jump because of the court opening well then you'd think that boost would be evident now as the building looks nearly complete and buyers would be factoring that into their valuation of property in the area.

Oh and the house in the link Stepbar posted is indeed overvalued. I know a couple who bought a 3 bed not too far from there (albeit closer to Devaney Gardens. They paid €265k and that was during the boom in 2005. According to latest data we are back to 2002 prices at this stage.

latenia

it is planned to transfer all criminal business and trails of the Court of Criminal Appeal, Central Criminal Court, Special Criminal Court, Dublin Circuit Criminal Court and Dublin District Court to the complex by January 11th 2010

What planet is the agent on that they think this is a selling point? The solicitors and barristers will drive down here from their offices in D2 or by the Four Courts and then on home to their redbricks in D4 and D6. Go stand outside the current courts some day and see the type of people who'll be hanging around.

stepbar

latenia wrote: »

What planet is the agent on that they think this is a selling point? The solicitors and barristers will drive down here from their offices in D2 or by the Four Courts and then on home to their redbricks in D4 and D6. Go stand outside the current courts some day and see the type of people who'll be hanging around.

They're sales people. Sales people generally don't live on the same planet as normal folk do. Mind you in most cases it's a higher power calling the shots so perhaps it's these type that are really the deluded ones.

mikemac

If the plan to regenerate O'Devaneys Gardens went ahead I'd think it'd help your area. Even then it's take years and years to complete and now it got scrapped
But this new plan to move court offices won't make any difference to you.
It's fantastic news for pubs/cafes and restaurants and the lunchtime trade will explode. But unless you own one of these then so what

I'd sack your estate agent if this was their idea and get one who can work to sell it for you.

tominkerry

thanks folks for the replies, forthright is fine. The question was more to do with how the demographic of the area might change rather than inflating or deflating property prices - that will be happen as a result. I lived in the area for over 6 years - and I would live nowhere else in Dublin given the proximity to Heuston, the Park and the Luas. Devaney gardens might be close but once the hookers moved away many years ago after the Luas came - the area has very quiet - it has an unusual mix of older residents intermingled with fleeting foreign nationals, professionals and indeed a politican...
I was up recently and from some research it seems that the newly rebuilt Ashling Hotel is going to do well - the two adjacent B&B are always booked solid. In periods of recession crime apparently increases so instead of seeing the RTE crews outside the Fourt Courts, you more than likely will see them on Parkgate St (what that means I'm not sure for the area). Firing my agent (they set the price) is an easy option but like most agents I guess, in a downturn they have to be trained to direct sell more as distinct from waiting for the phone to ring. I'll work with them for now. but I was keen to know what the area might look like in 3-5 years time. If you compare it to a place like Clancy Barracks or the new developments adjacent to the Eircom HQ - which would you pick?

Jo King

There are bound to be changes in the area around parkgate street when the new complex gets going in january. Most of the firms of solicitors operating in the are of Criminal law in Dublin are based very close to the Four Courts. They have people in court every day and need to be within walking distance for the purpose of bringing files over and back. They will inevitably start to move office down to Parkgate Street. There will be 22 courts there with, guards, prison officers, juries, courts service staff, barristers, solicitors, members of the press and accused persons milling about the area every day. Coffee shops and other businesses will thrive. There will be more people working around the area in various capacities from shop assistants to secretaries. many will seek accommodation in the area. There are a number of underdeveloped sites around Parkgate Street and the new complex might kickstart some development in the area. It will only be when the other major sites are developed that the full impact of the new courts complex will be felt. That will be in the 5 to 10 year range.

mikemac

tominkerry wrote: »

I was up recently and from some research it seems that the newly rebuilt Ashling Hotel is going to do well - the two adjacent B&B are always booked solid.

The Ashling hotel is indeed a fine hotel, it's the largest dining room I've been in any hotel in Ireland.
As for the B&B with the alleyway, stayed there before and it's a kip! Though it's booked solid everytime I pass so they're doing good business, mainly due to being close to Heuston

tominkerry wrote: »

Firing my agent (they set the price) is an easy option

You set the price, the agent does what you instruct them too

tominkerry wrote: »

but I was keen to know what the area might look like in 3-5 years time.

It's only going to get better but as you say, it'll take a number of years. I wouldn't think it'd make any difference to house prices, not this year or next. But if you want to rent all the extra business in the area will help
A canny investor may see an opportunity to open a café or if you owned a pub in the area it's a good time to think about lunchtime food, they will be the real winners

tominkerry

www.jsijournal.ie/.../2007%5B1%5D_White_The%20New%20Criminal%20Court%20Complex.pdf

Yes, it is a huge complex with 22 courts ( I see also that the judges have rooftop gardens). I actually hated this building when it was under construction but now, slowly, it is growing on me. It is striking when you turn off the bridge and head up Pargate St. Initially I think the area will be chaos with even worse traffic congestion (I notice permission for a taxi rank is being sought outside the building) heading in and out of town. However, and of course I'm biased here, the area will benefit enormously from all this activity and when I compare it to other 'ghost' areas that I can't see being finished inside ten years, then yes, this part of D7 is investment potential. As an aside (but also related), anyone know of the DIT plans and timlines for Grangegormon?

Jo King

There was a newspaper report,last week, that the DIT project in Grangegorman will not be going ahead; for financial reasons.