Utter stupidity is utter

Dannyboy83

Thursday November 12 2009

Campaigners called for an extra one euro to be slapped on the price of a packet of cigarettes to fund a massive crackdown on tobacco smuggling.
The Irish Cancer Society believes the tax hike would hit the sale of legal brands and cover a multi-million euro campaign to smoke out criminal gangs bringing in black market cigarettes.
They have called for Ireland to follow the example of the UK, which has managed to cut the illegal tobacco trade by a third since ramping up resources against it in 2000.
Kathleen O'Meara, of the Irish Cancer Society, said their proposed price increase in the forthcoming Budget would raise an extra 200 million euro in taxes.
"The investment required to fund a concerted anti-tobacco smuggling strategy in Ireland would be 5 million euro per annum, or 25 million euro over five years in staff and infrastructure," she said.
In a briefing to TDs and senators, the Irish Cancer Society said the UK model was based on a four-pronged approach. This included making it harder for smugglers to source tobacco, disrupting supply and distribution chains, increased penalties and raising public awareness.
The strategy led to the seizure of more than 14 billion cigarettes and more than 1,000 tonnes of hand rolling tobacco and helped break up 370 criminal gangs, it said.
To do the same in Ireland would require 30 more Customs detection staff at ports and airports, an extra 20 Garda investigators targeting large scale organised smuggling gangs and eight more intelligence staff, according to the Irish Cancer Society. Two extra staff in the Director of Public Prosecutions office to handle a rise in criminal proceedings would also be required.
"With this kind of investment and based on the UK funding model, we can expect to reduce the smuggled cigarette market by one third, thereby saving the exchequer 130 million euro annually in previously lost revenue," said Ms O'Meara.
Two weeks ago Customs seized Europe's largest ever haul of smuggled cigarettes, worth 120 million euro and brought ashore at Greenore, Co Louth. In another blow to black market gangs, eight tonnes of tobacco leaf, ready to be rolled into 12 million cigarettes, was recovered coming through Dublin Port on Monday.

Unprecedented stupidity.
We have a problem with smuggling, how will we tackle it?
um............Increase the price of cigarettes by 1 Euro , and give smugglers an extra 50% profit minimum on top of the existing 400% profit.
Have these people never heard of PETROL & FIRE?


This is like something straight out of Monthy Python to be honest

If we can't even get a basic little thing like this right, what chance do we have against the real problems?

lmimmfn

Agreed, if they stick 1 euro on them they'd be 9.45/9.50EUR, can get them legally up north for 6.80/690EUR never mind getting them illegally.

If you smoke a pack a day, youll save 950EUR a year getting them up north, plus may as well get your wine and shopping when youre up there.

Ill make it my point not to buy any cigs in the shops here if they do it

MaceFace

Disagree with you guys. To follow through with your argument, lets drop the price so people don't go North or the smugglers dont win.

A very good `reason to up the price is it will reduce the number of people starting to smoke.

Sometimes there are things more important than raising tax.

Dannyboy83

MaceFace wrote: »

Disagree with you guys. To follow through with your argument, lets drop the price so people don't go North or the smugglers dont win.

A very good `reason to up the price is it will reduce the number of people starting to smoke.

Sometimes there are things more important than raising tax.

Granted, but if you want to follow that logic, then up to price to E20 or just outlaw them.

The current situation is just more of same head in the sand nonsense.

MaceFace

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Granted, but if you want to follow that logic, then up to price to E20 or just outlaw them.

The current situation is just more of same head in the sand nonsense.

I would personally love to have them banned. Unfortunately this would not be considered as the government would be accused of running a nanny state and the general public would not let it through.

Remember: they are the only legal product where if you use them as described by the manufacturer you will probably end up dying.

Dannyboy83

MaceFace wrote: »

I would personally love to have them banned. Unfortunately this would not be considered as the government would be accused of running a nanny state and the general public would not let it through.

Remember: they are the only legal product where if you use them as described by the manufacturer you will probably end up dying.

I don't dispute that for a second & I'm positive that every single smoker in Ireland knows they will cause cancer.

But we are faced with the current reality that 1 box out of every 4 in Ireland is contraband. That means massive profits for criminal gangs who end up re-investing the money in drugs and guns. That is a far bigger and more immediate problem.

Every time they raise the price, the same old line is trotted out (and I'm not criticizing you btw) "they'll kill you and it'll stop kids starting smoking".
If it didn't stop kids smoking at €6, at €7, at €8, .........why continue on down that road?

What they're doing is not only not working, its creating a whole new series of problems.
Its time to try something different.

meglome

I'm an anti-smoker but just like trying to tax the rich more and more there's a point when people just won't pay it. They'll find legal or illegal ways to avoid coughing up (excuse the pun).

Making cigarettes even more expensive makes them even more attractive to smugglers. Stupid idea IMO.

old boy

kids will always smoke, have done and will do, all smokers know that smoking does damage, it is the passive smoker that these people are trying to protect

97i9y3941

im not a smoker myself but i think adding more money to the price will just drive more people up the north again,as suggested i would agree with price of having it as the same in north and south,all this suggestions could come to waste,didnt the e.u rule recently that ireland coundnt set a standard price on cigs?

mrgaa1

I think the point is being missed here. If cigarettes were halved in price would this encourage new smokers to start - I don't think so. Cigarette smoking can give you cancer, lung problems and other health issues. So by putting the price up hopefully those who smoke or are thinking about it may contemplate stopping. So the less smokers the less the strain on public health services.
So what to do about the smuggling and cheap imported cigarettes? Its a difficult problem to stop but it has to be worked on.
So does the government cut the price and get some tax in - and at the same time seen to be encouraging smoking? Or do they put the price up and allow the Gardai to go after the smugglers. Personally its up the price and go after the smugglers.
How many smokers are there anyway and what is the current tax intake?
In a draconian world I'd outlaw smoking entirely - every intake is harmful. With alcohol it can be taken sensibly and the liver is a wonderful organ which can clean itself. Once the lungs are full of smoke no going back. The tar remaines.