Fahey to meet EU officials to find agreement on outer bypass

?Cee?view

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/18971

See the article above in today's Advertiser.

Does anyone else feel a bit concerned that we're relying on Frank Fahey and Pat "The Cope" to advance this cause in Europe?

Question - what can people who realise how vital this road is to improve the lives of Galway residents, do to lobby to get it built as soon as possible? The only people who seem to be making noise about it are those who oppose it.

I divide my time between Dublin and Galway. Without any doubt, Galway traffic is far worse than Dublin and life in Galway and for Galway commuters is far worse as a result. This road is needed now to get traffic out of Galway and end the gridlock.


* Mods - If you don't mind please don't send this to Infrastructure. This is more about quality of life in Galway than roads per se. Thanks.

Chris_533976

I'm thinking Frank may be good for this at the moment. He's blatently pushing it through for nothing other than his own vote count, which means he'll try to get it through at all costs. Is he doing it for the people of Galway? Like hell he is.

?Cee?view

I couldn't care less who he's doing it for as long as he gets it done. But I've an awful fear that he'll screw it up.

KevR

I know this will probably offend some, but I really couldn't possibly care less about the Tonabrooky bog cotton or the special limestone in Menlo, in fact I resent the bog cotton and limestone for holding this project up. I am in favour of more road building in general but this is the road I most want to see built becuase it would make such a difference to my everyday life.

Kristopherus

Well I wouldnt trust Fahey's motives for a moment. He' as rotten as they come. But if he pulls this off in spite of the treehuggers, it will go some minute distance in him recovering his reputation

fergiesfolly

I honestly don't know how the powers that be, let it come this far without finding a way round the objections. We're about to open a major motorway thats essentially going to come to a T-junction in Doughiska. Its going to be a complete mess, so the sooner they sort out this fiasco the better.

Sponge Bob

He wants to find out whether the EU will investigate the recent court case or not and poke a letter out of them stating their intentions and observations . That is all he can do now.

If the EU is happy with the court verdict and writes an opinion saying so then the Moycullen Road-Galway Airport section can go to tender as early as the first few months of next year and the rest of the road can be rolled into the new Rossaveal Road project now the NRA is responsible for regional roads too .

MayoForSam

This bypass would save me 1 hour per day commuting time I reckon, time I would like to spend with my kids to see them growing up rather than preserving about 0.25% of the total bog area of Connemara.

I am sure the rat-run residents around Claregalway/Corrandulla/Barna/Menlo/Cregmore/etc. also think the same way.

Come on Frank, redeem yourself!

celty

Why are people so sure that Galway needs a bypass? And why are we relying on a gobsh*te like Fahey to push it through ... the man who owns 30 properties and somehow feels a need to justify NAMA all the time? Has he some huge desire to free up land for development on the west side of the city or something?

This year I have spent time in San Sebastian, Spain, and Lausanne, Switzerland, and have been flabbergasted by how good the public transport and cycle lanes are in cities which are not an awful lot bigger than Galway.

If the City Council provided proper cycle lanes and lazy motorists got off their fat asses for short journeys around town, then we wouldn't need a bypass.

If parents encouraged obese teenagers to walk or cycle, we wouldn't need a bypass.

If Bus Eireann or the red bus crowd provided services every 10 minutes and people left their cars at home, we wouldn't need a bypass.

If the GLUAS was given the go-ahead (a visionary project which probably hasn't a hope under Fahey and his ilk) we would not need a bypass. Imagine being able to take a tram every ten minutes from Knocknacarra or Barna to Ballybrit.

But here in Ireland it's all about roads, roads, roads, and the 'fat cat' developers who Fahey seems to love, without any thought of a bit of vision to get cars off the roads. We're the 51st state of the USA and people rely far too much on the car in this country.

Fair enough, if you are travelling 20k or 50k or 200k. But my guess is that the vast majority of the people on the city's roads are only making short journeys.

I don't trust Fahey. This, after all, is the man who told a Galway newspaper 11 months ago that there was "never a better time to buy property" for first time buyers. I sincerely hope that nobody listened to the man then, because as we all know property prices have continued to plummet since then.

No wonder this country is fekked when people like this wonderful TD from Gort have such a lack of vision.

Robbo

Celty, thank you for your many men of straw.

I'd like to respond in kind by saying that the GLUAS is the worst kind of proposal dreamt up by quasi-Rain Men with crayons that this city has ever seen. It may look like a decent proposal until you realise the massive land acquisition costs, the inconvenience to cyclists and buses and the fact that the proposed trams have a nasty habit of spontaneous combustion. Moreover the route selection couldn't be more fanciful if it took in Disneyland Paris as a stop.

What the west side of town needs is a dualling of Bishop O'Donnell Road to make a 12 hour bus lane (7am-7pm), 15 minute clockface services along the arterial routes and proper connection with buses the other side of town. Not some trainspotters wet dream from a fantasist in his bunker with a box of Crayolas.

leninbenjamin

Robbo wrote: »

Not some trainspotters wet dream from a fantasist in his bunker with a box of Crayolas.

I actually think there is some credibility to the argument of building a tram system in Galway. On paper at least we're the perfect size for one, the main arteries of the city are being bottlenecked and future development crippled by sprawl and bad planning.

But having seen the GLUAS plans, I agree it's fanciful.

Buses are the big problem. If they were reliable I'd use them all the time. But it's a bit of a catch 22. Utilisation of the existing services is crap, and there's no incentive to improve upon on them and vice versa...

I know people will hate me for this, but I'm beginning to think something like a congestion charge is the only way we're going to ease the traffic problems in the future. We have to create some kind of a disincentive.

civis_liberalis

leninbenjamin wrote: »

I know people will hate me for this, but I'm beginning to think something like a congestion charge is the only way we're going to ease the traffic problems in the future. We have to create some kind of a disincentive.

A congestion charge would only serve to penalise people unfairly.

Public transport isn't up to scratch, so punishing people for not using it is unfair. I do actually use public transport btw, so I'm not a fat-arse motoristd, I'm actually a fat-arsed public transport user.

Chris_533976

Absolutely no public transport improvements can be achieved in Galway until the bypass is built. Through traffic HAS to be removed before road space can be freed up for bus lanes, cycle lanes, or god help us, tram lines.

The bypass, ironically, will be the biggest boost to public transport overall in Galway. It wont SOLVE the traffic problem, granted, but it will remove enough of it to make public transport viable.

KevR

leninbenjamin wrote: »

I actually think there is some credibility to the argument of building a tram system in Galway. On paper at least we're the perfect size for one, the main arteries of the city are being bottlenecked and future development crippled by sprawl and bad planning.

But having seen the GLUAS plans, I agree it's fanciful.

Buses are the big problem. If they were reliable I'd use them all the time. But it's a bit of a catch 22. Utilisation of the existing services is crap, and there's no incentive to improve upon on them and vice versa...

I know people will hate me for this, but I'm beginning to think something like a congestion charge is the only way we're going to ease the traffic problems in the future. We have to create some kind of a disincentive.

It could be argued that Galway already does have a congestion charge. We have more expensive parking and petrol/diesel than Dublin and the rest of the country. Galway people still choose to drive despite these penalties. Most people have no realistic alternatives.

Sponge Bob

At this stage I favour building the Bypass 'as permitted' ( Airport to Glenlo Abbey) and widening the Barna-Moycullen Road a bit and putting a roundabout where it joins the N59 and bypassing Moycullen like they were supposed to since the early 1970s .

That gives you

1. Wide road from Roscahilll - Bushypark and Motorway from Bushypark - Dublin .
2. South Connemara people can skip around Barna on the bit of a bypass north of the 12 and straight over to the Moycullen road .
3. Only Knocknacarra people and NUIG students need use the Quirke/Quincentennial and they have bus alternatives too .
4. Widen and buslane the Seamus Quirke as planned since about 1985 ( allegedly next year, OOOH the pain )
4. Kill this fantasist Gluas bollix , it was conceived by a bloody nutter and is overkill anyway . Come back to it when/if Galway is 50% bigger maybe.

Then full stop for new roads west of the Corrib for 10 years.

schween

celty wrote: »

Why are people so sure that Galway needs a bypass? And why are we relying on a gobsh*te like Fahey to push it through ... the man who owns 30 properties and somehow feels a need to justify NAMA all the time? Has he some huge desire to free up land for development on the west side of the city or something?

This year I have spent time in San Sebastian, Spain, and Lausanne, Switzerland, and have been flabbergasted by how good the public transport and cycle lanes are in cities which are not an awful lot bigger than Galway.

If the City Council provided proper cycle lanes and lazy motorists got off their fat asses for short journeys around town, then we wouldn't need a bypass.

If parents encouraged obese teenagers to walk or cycle, we wouldn't need a bypass.

If Bus Eireann or the red bus crowd provided services every 10 minutes and people left their cars at home, we wouldn't need a bypass.

If the GLUAS was given the go-ahead (a visionary project which probably hasn't a hope under Fahey and his ilk) we would not need a bypass. Imagine being able to take a tram every ten minutes from Knocknacarra or Barna to Ballybrit.

But here in Ireland it's all about roads, roads, roads, and the 'fat cat' developers who Fahey seems to love, without any thought of a bit of vision to get cars off the roads. We're the 51st state of the USA and people rely far too much on the car in this country.

Fair enough, if you are travelling 20k or 50k or 200k. But my guess is that the vast majority of the people on the city's roads are only making short journeys.

I don't trust Fahey. This, after all, is the man who told a Galway newspaper 11 months ago that there was "never a better time to buy property" for first time buyers. I sincerely hope that nobody listened to the man then, because as we all know property prices have continued to plummet since then.

No wonder this country is fekked when people like this wonderful TD from Gort have such a lack of vision.

I noticed how you fail to mention that both San Sebastian and Lausanne both have nice motorways bypassing them. No doubt these cities would be crippled without them.
Also the population of the greater San Sebastian area is over 400,000 and I presume that densities are far higher there than in Galway, meaning everything is closer and not as spread out as Galway.
IMO the bypass is vital for the city.

celty

schween wrote: »

I noticed how you fail to mention that both San Sebastian and Lausanne both have nice motorways bypassing them. No doubt these cities would be crippled without them.
Also the population of the greater San Sebastian area is over 400,000 and I presume that densities are far higher there than in Galway, meaning everything is closer and not as spread out as Galway.
IMO the bypass is vital for the city.

Fair point. Most people in San Sebastian live in high rise apartments because the cost of a house is astronomical and of course the city is much bigger than Galway. That doesn't excuse the fact that Galway City Council should be ashamed by the lack of facilities for cyclists in this city, which don't cost a fortune and might encourage people to leave their cars at home. I love cycling, but it's dangerous in this city when you have to share the roads with motorists who seem to be blind to bikes.

My point I guess is that we are too quick to centre all transportation plans around the car rather than the bicycle, the bus, or the tram in this country. Who knows ... with the way oil is going there might be far fewer cars on our roads in 50 or 100 years and future generations would not thank us for building a massive road when fewer people will see a need to use it.

It seems to me that Galway people living abroad, in places with much better public transport systems, believe that the bypass would be a fiasco and a poor solution when we need to change the whole mindset of people who commute to work and school in this city. Do you notice how much less traffic there is when the schools are closed? In my day, in the 1980s, most of us walked, cycled, or got the bus to school in Galway. :mad:

Chris_533976

But no matter what way you look at it or how you fudge it, the simple truth is that you need to be able to get around Galway without going through it.

There are only four ways across the Corrib in Galway, with the next 'road that can get you east' being about 33km north by line of site. Thats a ridiculous situation, and the extra bridge was needed years ago.

Athlone is fairly similar by 'design'. Crossings of the Shannon north (and south) are the same distance, yet imagining Athlone without a grade separated bypass is madness, even though its smaller.

Triple the size of Athlone and add in commuter towns. Then remove the current bypass and add a few more local crossings tacked onto local streets. Then add an equivalent of the Quincentenary bridge that leads inescabably to estates on the western side.

The whole idea is ridiculous and laughable but thats EXACTLY what the situation in Galway is, except for the added problem that Galway cant have a southern Corrib crossing.

alibabba

A senior road engineer once told me if you build a new road, it doesnt take too long before that road system gets choked up with traffic. What are the odds that the by-pass gets built and in 50 years time our kids will be here on boards talking about how galway needs another bypass ?

Webbs

Chris_533976 wrote: »

But no matter what way you look at it or how you fudge it, the simple truth is that you need to be able to get around Galway without going through it.

There are only four ways across the Corrib in Galway, with the next 'road that can get you east' being about 33km north by line of site. Thats a ridiculous situation, and the extra bridge was needed years ago.

Athlone is fairly similar by 'design'. Crossings of the Shannon north (and south) are the same distance, yet imagining Athlone without a grade separated bypass is madness, even though its smaller.

Triple the size of Athlone and add in commuter towns. Then remove the current bypass and add a few more local crossings tacked onto local streets. Then add an equivalent of the Quincentenary bridge that leads inescabably to estates on the western side.

The whole idea is ridiculous and laughable but thats EXACTLY what the situation in Galway is, except for the added problem that Galway cant have a southern Corrib crossing.

While I do see your point to a large extent,and I think Galway does need a solutin to its traffic problems, Athlone is between two of the large population areas in Ireland (Dublin and Galway/Limerick) there is therefore a large amount of traffic that go straight through Athlone and now go via its bypass.
The Galway Outer Bypass is not really a bypass at all as the amount of traffic that would be going just North South is tiny compared to the amount of Traffic that is doing local journeys in and out of Galway.
I feel that all the bypass will do is move bottlenecks from one part of the city to another and not alleviate the problem, what galway needs is probable a combination of the outer ring road and a much much better public transport system combined with cycle safety measures.
The number of people in Galway who drive relatively tiny distances too and from work is amazing. I have never lived somewhere where people are so wedded to their cars and that culture has to be reversed as well

Chris_533976

But thats part of the problem. Build the bypass and let it act as a relief road or whatever. That'll free up some of the city streets so that public transport can be useful.

Simple things would help. As it stands all of Knocknacarra is not served by Bus Eireann at all. Only the Red Bus, which is worse than useless. TWO of the red bus routes pass my door and pass where I work but I wouldnt use them, simply because they're so pathetically unreliable.

People are wedded to their cars, but a good few of them would be tempted into the bus if it was actually useful

KevR

Imagine standing up in front of the country and saying that we believe we should build a motorway the whole way down from Dublin to East Ballinasloe but we will not bypass the town because of a protected bog and permanently send all traffic through the town. The whole country would laugh in your face, and rightly so. You could argue all you wanted about having public transport and cycling initiatives to alleviate the traffic in Ballinsloe but everyone would still laugh in your face.

What some people are suggesting for Galway is the same as what I said above, but 100 times worse...

You will be able to drive from Liffey Valley to Briarhill in under 95 mins soon and it will take you another extra hour to get across to the West side of Galway or beyond the city.

As Eamonn O'Cuiv said recently, someone leaving the East side of the City could be over half way to Dublin by the time someone leaving the West side of the City even gets onto the motorway at Briarhill.

RuthieRose

Hi Folks.
I live in the west side of the city and I have been reading through your ideas.
I just want to clarify that I need my car for work so I have no alternative.

Cycling to work - Apart from taking your life into your own hands... Not all of us are blessed with a shower at work (I would say very few) so spending the day stinking at the desk is not an option.

Bus - It is very unreliable. And I have three other very good reasons...
1. Bus Stops have no shelters (very few of them in Knocknacarra) so while your waiting for your very late bus in the west of Ireland you get soaked to the bone. Then your boss goes mad for showing up late and looking like a wet dog.
2. The bus takes you ALL around Knocknacarra before...
3. Getting stuck in the same traffic you'd be stuck in if you had a car. And lets face it. Some people need their cars and won't stand in the rain waiting for a bus that is always late which means your late for work. I wouldn't blame anyone for taking their car.

Solution - BYPASS.
Its the only one. Like me I am sure alot of people work in the industrial estates around the city. They are all on the side of the proposed bypass.
It makes sence to bypass the city and have feeder roads into areas that people need to get to. Why don't the Fly it. Put it on stilts and that way you could still have a nice bog below.
Just my ideas and suggestions!!

ScumLord

celty wrote: »

If the City Council provided proper cycle lanes and lazy motorists got off their fat asses for short journeys around town, then we wouldn't need a bypass.

If parents encouraged obese teenagers to walk or cycle, we wouldn't need a bypass.

If Bus Eireann or the red bus crowd provided services every 10 minutes and people left their cars at home, we wouldn't need a bypass.

If the GLUAS was given the go-ahead (a visionary project which probably hasn't a hope under Fahey and his ilk) we would not need a bypass. Imagine being able to take a tram every ten minutes from Knocknacarra or Barna to Ballybrit.

The problem isn't really the local Galway traffic. In the infinite wisdom of the general population of Ireland we have all decided that we will either live in a city or in the country, but we shall do our best to live in the opposite environment from where we work. So if you live in the country you work in the city. Allot of Galway traffic is all the people going into the city and working. If someone works on the opposite side of the city they have to drive through it and that's where the problem is.

Of course if there was such a thing as town planning in Galway this wouldn't be as big a problem as it is, I think the Galway council went out of their way to make the traffic as bad as they possibly could. Nothing in Galway makes any sense, estates are in stupid places, businesses are hard to get to for cars nevermind supply trucks. We'd almost be better off knocking the city to the ground and starting again.

RuthieRose

ScumLord wrote: »

. We'd almost be better off knocking the city to the ground and starting again.

I agree!

schween

celty wrote: »

Fair point. Most people in San Sebastian live in high rise apartments because the cost of a house is astronomical and of course the city is much bigger than Galway. That doesn't excuse the fact that Galway City Council should be ashamed by the lack of facilities for cyclists in this city, which don't cost a fortune and might encourage people to leave their cars at home. I love cycling, but it's dangerous in this city when you have to share the roads with motorists who seem to be blind to bikes.

My point I guess is that we are too quick to centre all transportation plans around the car rather than the bicycle, the bus, or the tram in this country. Who knows ... with the way oil is going there might be far fewer cars on our roads in 50 or 100 years and future generations would not thank us for building a massive road when fewer people will see a need to use it.

It seems to me that Galway people living abroad, in places with much better public transport systems, believe that the bypass would be a fiasco and a poor solution when we need to change the whole mindset of people who commute to work and school in this city. Do you notice how much less traffic there is when the schools are closed? In my day, in the 1980s, most of us walked, cycled, or got the bus to school in Galway. :mad:

I agree, Galway City Council should be ashamed of their history in relation to cycling facilities and how dangerous it is to cycle on the roads. They have a lot to improve on.

I don't think cars are going to go away anytime soon. The car industry will move with the times. As it stands the numbers of cars on our roads are rising and rising. Besides, we aren't just building the road for our great grandchildren, it's for us too. We need it now. We needed it years ago. Imagine if the whole world just stopped building roads because we may in 50 years time all abandon our cars.

Back in the 80s Galways population was between 40,000 & 50,000. More people should walk, cycle or take the bus but the weathers often crap and the roads are so congested that buses go nowhere. So they should bypass and implement the bus strategy thats gathering dust in city hall.

As a Galway person living abroad, in a place with far better public transport, I don't think the bypass will be a fiasco. Most cities with good public transport still have a decent road network. Here where I am at the moment, there is an extensive efficient bus & rail network and little congestion because there is a major busy motorway around the town taking the commuter/intercity traffic out.
Galways population will grow to 100,000 and more, not forgetting the thousands more who will commute in and out daily, and still we will have a city where the major crossing is one crap 50km/hour limited bridge. Whatever way you look at it, the new road will still be needed.

alibabba wrote: »

A senior road engineer once told me if you build a new road, it doesnt take too long before that road system gets choked up with traffic. What are the odds that the by-pass gets built and in 50 years time our kids will be here on boards talking about how galway needs another bypass ?

20 years ago, they were arguing for the construction of the Quincentenary Bridge. They built it, the city has grown, and now we need a new one because there are far more people. In a few decades when the city has grown even more we will probably need new ways/crossings to cope with the increased demand so yes, the odds that our kids will probably be having a similar discussion are high.

ScumLord wrote: »

Of course if there was such a thing as town planning in Galway this wouldn't be as big a problem as it is, I think the Galway council went out of their way to make the traffic as bad as they possibly could. Nothing in Galway makes any sense, estates are in stupid places, businesses are hard to get to for cars nevermind supply trucks. We'd almost be better off knocking the city to the ground and starting again.

This is the source of the evil. Let's knock City Hall, the muppets inside obviously aren't up to the job.

?Cee?view

O'Brolchain, having been rejected by the electorate for a Dail seat and then thrown out of the City Council by the electorate has now been nominated to the Senate!

How long until he causes difficulty again for the Bypass? Hopefully the puppetmasters can keep him under control and keep a muzzle on him.

An absolute joke...

Webbs

churchview wrote: »

O'Brolchain, having been rejected by the electorate for a Dail seat and then thrown out of the City Council by the electorate has now been nominated to the Senate!

How long until he causes difficulty again for the Bypass? Hopefully the puppetmasters can keep him under control and keep a muzzle on him.

An absolute joke...

A joke in what way? He has gone out and done something about a subject that he feels passionately about.
If you feel so passionate about it why dont you go out and campaign on this issue as he does?
I know I would rather have had someone like O'Brolchain in politics who believes he is doing something for the greater good (whether we agree on his views is a personal choice) than F Fahey who seems to have one motive only for his politicking.

?Cee?view

He was rejected by the Electorate when he ran for the Dail.

He was rejected by the Electorate when he ran for reelection to the City Council.

He has now been appointed to a chamber of our legislature having been rejected both locally and nationally.

Is this democratic?

If you don't see this as a joke, can we at least agree that it's ridiculous?

Webbs

churchview wrote: »

He was rejected by the Electorate when he ran for the Dail.

He was rejected by the Electorate when he ran for reelection to the City Council.

He has now been appointed to a chamber of our legislature having been rejected both locally and nationally.

Is this democratic?

If you don't see this as a joke, can we at least agree that it's ridiculous?

I agree that the appointment of anyone to legislature is ridiculous, but then that sums up Irish Politics as a whole

gandroid

RuthieRose wrote: »

Hi Folks.

Bus - It is very unreliable. And I have three other very good reasons...
1. Bus Stops have no shelters (very few of them in Knocknacarra) so while your waiting for your very late bus in the west of Ireland you get soaked to the bone. Then your boss goes mad for showing up late and looking like a wet dog.
2. The bus takes you ALL around Knocknacarra before...
3. Getting stuck in the same traffic you'd be stuck in if you had a car. And lets face it. Some people need their cars and won't stand in the rain waiting for a bus that is always late which means your late for work. I wouldn't blame anyone for taking their car.

I agree on all counts. I feel sorry for the poor souls I see standing in the rain by bus stops in Knocknacarra, wondering if/when the bus is coming in the (and the summer was more or less the same). It's a disgrace that there are no bus shelters and some of the places the buses stop are totally inadequate and unsafe.

I rarely use the service myself but I know there was a useful service to the upper Ballymoneen Road (with a terminus there) which stopped last summer and the reason given was that it was unsafe to turn the bus around at the terminus....this was just an excuse to cut the service I feel (for whatever reason).