The Granny/Grandad Rule

heavyballs

Does anyone else share my view on this:
I'm sick and tired of listening to the likes of Leon Best,Kilbane etc with their English accents(i've nothing v the english btw)in their pre and post match interviews.
I beleive many years ago we should have done away with the rule that allows us to pick players with Irish grandparents.
Well i know we wouldn't have made it to the finals of 88'90 and 94 tourneys.
However the FAI would have been forced to open an academy much like the FA and Dutch academy's which would have produced a higher calibre player than the second hand English hand-me-downs that we currently have.

Finally can anybody name 1 player with an English accent who would have made it into the starting 11 of the English team at the time

keane2097

I've a bigger problem with Robbie Keane's accent than Kevin Kilbane's tbh.

event

callum best is george bests son, he doesnt play for us.
leon best does though

tbh it doesnt bother me.
when you see massive countries like england, france and argentina doing it, why cant we?

heavyballs

event wrote: »

callum best is george bests son, he doesnt play for us.
leon best does though

tbh it doesnt bother me.
when you see massive countries like england, france and argentina doing it, why cant we?

oh schit sorry about that

thegen

No problem with it at least they want to play for us;)

heavyballs

event wrote: »

tbh it doesnt bother me.
when you see massive countries like england, france and argentina doing it, why cant we?

i think you'll find with the English the players or their parents were all either born in the uk or moved to the uk from one of their collonies or former collonies.
Can you name even 1 who is playing only because their gp's were born in the uk

Calum Best footballer ? :eek:

You drunk OP ?

And who gives a fcuk what accent they have if they can play ball.

heavyballs

thegen wrote: »

No problem with it at least they want to play for us;)

yeah ok so if they were good enough for england you reckon they'd still pick us,get real,it's a handy way for an agent to expect a bigger salary for his player during contract talks

heavyballs

rarnes1 wrote: »

Calum Best footballer ? :eek:

You drunk OP ?

And who gives a fcuk what accent they have if they can play ball.

i give afcuk,that's who and i can't be the only one

ctrl-alt-delete

Anyone with the required amount of Irish blood in them, and who is willing to play for the country i'd take any day, especially if they improve the squad. I couldn't give a toss how they speak, only how they play.

Let's not even begin to talk about the ones talented enough to play for the country who refuse to.

major bill

the likes of townsend,alridge,hughton,kilbane,holland to name a few gave their sweat and tears for this country so no would have no problem with them and in fairness id say much of that 88 italia 90 team could have played for england as they were top class players.
however the likes of kieran westwood and others like him you have no idea of their irishness and only use our country as a stepping stone for their career,thats where i have the problem.


The chasing down of english mercenarys like kevin nolan, o'hara who have no desire to play for us is pathetic also imo.

heavyballs

heavyballs wrote: »

i give afcuk,that's who and i can't be the only one

why does it matter what accent they have?

What about religion and colour? That have to be of a set standard too?!!

Photi

heavyballs wrote: »

I'm sick and tired of listening to the likes of Callum Best,Kilbane etc with their English accents

Kilbane has put his body on the line 100 times for Ireland, never shirks a challenge, and always has a smile on his face, regardless of endless criticisma and sneers. Who cares what accent he has? Almost all of our current squad live and work overseas, does that mean they shouldn't represent Ireland?

major bill

keane2097 wrote: »

I've a bigger problem with Robbie Keane's accent than Kevin Kilbane's tbh.

spot on love the chap and all but he cant string a sentence together makes for bad listening!!!!

heavyballs

Photi wrote: »

Kilbane has put his body on the line 100 times for Ireland, never shirks a challenge, and always has a smile on his face, regardless of endless criticisma and sneers. Who cares what accent he has? Almost all of our current squad live and work overseas, does that mean they shouldn't represent Ireland?

eh no,what does where someone works have to do with their birth place.I'm saying only players who were born(or their parents) in this country should be allowed to represent the countrty

chopperbyrne

Kevin Kilbane is also one of the ones singing the anthem before every game and giving 100% effort when some of the "true Irish" players aren't.

Who cares what accent he has.

Photi

heavyballs wrote: »

eh no,what does where someone works have to do with their birth place.I'm saying only players who were born(or their parents) in this country should be allowed to represent the countrty

Well, I work overseas too and if I ever have kids then I will raise them to be aware of their Irishness as it's clear that Kilbane's parents did.

heavyballs

Photi wrote: »

Well, I work overseas too and if I ever have kids then I will raise them to be aware of their Irishness as it's clear that Kilbane's parents did.

how did you work that out?Because he learned the anthem off.

BTW,some players don't like to sing the anthem because they are concentrating so much on the job at hand

Guy:Incognito

event wrote: »

callum best is george bests son, he doesnt play for us.
leon best does though

tbh it doesnt bother me.
when you see massive countries like england, france and argentina doing it, why cant we?

Germany have a distinct Polish twang to the names in their squad too.

thegen

Aldridge, Houghton etc would have been good enough for England at the time. Is it just the accent or have you a problem with them being born in Eng?

Where do you stand on Dave O'Leary?

Eng have done the same as us. Owen Hargreaves and John Barnes not born in Eng.

Guy:Incognito

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

Anyone with the required amount of Irish blood in them, and who is willing to play for the country i'd take any day, especially if they improve the squad. I couldn't give a toss how they speak, only how they play.

Let's not even begin to talk about the ones talented enough to play for the country who refuse to.

Dont even need blood. Anyone here long enough to be entitled to citizenship and is good enough is ok.

keane2097

heavyballs wrote: »

how did you work that out?Because he learned the anthem off.

BTW,some players don't like to sing the anthem because they are concentrating so much on the job at hand

Sorry, can you just clarify what you think it is that makes someone "Irish"?

You seem to think that being born in Ireland or having your parents born in Ireland is grand, but not having your grandparents be from here...

Why?

Guy:Incognito

keane2097 wrote: »

Sorry, can you just clarify what you think it is that makes someone "Irish"?

You seem to think that being born in Ireland or having your parents born in Ireland is grand, but not having your grandparents be from here...

Why?

Yeah, it's really all a load of crap. Is someone who happened to be born here because his 2 Polish parents were working here at the time any more or less Irish than someone born to Irish decendants? What if the kid and his Polish parents left here when he was 2 and moved to England for 5 years then back home to Poland? Is he still Irish enough?

heavyballs

Stekelly wrote: »

Germany have a distinct Polish twang to the names in their squad too.

they were exiled to East Germany untill the wall came down

Guy:Incognito

heavyballs wrote: »

they were exiled to East Germany untill the wall came down

They have plenty of Turkish and other eastern Euopean decendants playing football there now as Germans.

heavyballs

keane2097 wrote: »

Sorry, can you just clarify what you think it is that makes someone "Irish"?

You seem to think that being born in Ireland or having your parents born in Ireland is grand, but not having your grandparents be from here...

Why?

Yes that's what i beleive,
Why? Because in my opinion the grandparent rule has been used too often by players who would have no chance of making the english squad.
At least if you're parents are born in ireland there is more chance that you will be brought up in Ireland

Btw,why has nobody mentioned what i said in op re the centre of excellence,it makes sence to me

OPENROAD

I wouldn't have a problem with a person with no roots to a particular country playing for that country say for example Almunia playing for England, afterall he lives in that country and just like the likes of Houghton etc... give 100%

heavyballs

thegen wrote: »

Aldridge, Houghton etc would have been good enough for England at the time. Is it just the accent or have you a problem with them being born in Eng?

Where do you stand on Dave O'Leary?

his Dad was born in Ireland,good enough for my Ireland squad

major bill

There should be a centre of excellence anyway!!!

heavyballs

major bill wrote: »

There should be a centre of excellence anyway!!!

thank you,that probably should have been the basis of my argument in the first place,

keane2097

heavyballs wrote: »

Yes that's what i beleive,
Why? Because in my opinion the grandparent rule has been used too often by players who would have no chance of making the english squad.
At least if you're parents are born in ireland there is more chance that you will be brought up in Ireland

Nah this is complete muck.

A child born to two migrant Eastern Europeans in Cork this week who decide to head back home next week because they've been made redundant can play for Ireland by your logic while a guy who has been raised as Irish 12 miles from the country in Scotland where his grandparents moved a generation ago is told he's not Irish enough.

Pull the other one Jim.

everdead.ie

Paul Mcgrath born in london good enough for any team.
What about mcgeady dreamt of playing for Ireland since he was a child

thegen

heavyballs wrote: »

his Dad was born in Ireland,good enough for my Ireland squad

So let me get this right. You dont have a problem if a players parents are born here but you do if its Grandparents?

Zaph

heavyballs wrote: »

Does anyone else share my view on this:
I'm sick and tired of listening to the likes of Callum Best,Kilbane etc with their English accents(i've nothing v the english btw)in their pre and post match interviews.

What about the likes of Ray Houghton and Aidan McGeady with their Scottish accents, have you a problem with them too?

As far as I'm concerned, any player who pulls on a green shirt and gives it their all is fine by me and they could be from Timbuktu for all I care. Like others, it's the ones who are happy to stroll about in some meaningless friendly just so they can add "Irish international" to their CV are the ones I have a problem with.

Johnny Utah

heavyballs wrote: »

Does anyone else share my view on this:
I'm sick and tired of listening to the likes of Callum Best,Kilbane etc with their English accents(i've nothing v the english btw)in their pre and post match interviews.
I beleive many years ago we should have done away with the rule that allows us to pick players with Irish grandparents.
Well i know we wouldn't have made it to the finals of 88'90 and 94 tourneys.
However the FAI would have been forced to open an academy much like the FA and Dutch academy's which would have produced a higher calibre player than the second hand English hand-me-downs that we currently have.

Finally can anybody name 1 player with an English accent who would have made it into the starting 11 of the English team at the time

This is the same Dutch team that rely on many foreign born players, such as Edgar Davids, Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink, Clarence Seedorf who were all born in Suriname, for example.

Kirnsy

agree with zaph. kilbane is a bad example to name OP. he's as Irish as the rest of them IMO when it comes to soccer. no matter his ability i dont think any serious fan can question his commitment,loyalty and efforts for Ireland.

its the lads who couldn't be bothered about anything more than to see "xxxx the Irish international" after their name in the papers that annoy me. doesn't matter where that sort are born they are wasters.

heavyballs

Johnny Utah wrote: »

This is the same Dutch team that rely on many foreign born players, such as Edgar Davids, Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink, Clarence Seedorf who were all born in Suriname, for example.

are you suggesting that the centre of excellence in Holland hasn't been a success for a relitively small country,it has produced many talented players

heavyballs

thegen wrote: »

So let me get this right. You dont have a problem if a players parents are born here but you do if its Grandparents?

I beleive the grandparent rule should be abolished ,yes,is that a difficult concept to grasp?

heavyballs

Zaph wrote: »

What about the likes of Ray Houghton and Aidan McGeady with their Scottish accents, have you a problem with them too?


As far as I'm concerned, any player who pulls on a green shirt and gives it their all is fine by me and they could be from Timbuktu for all I care. Like others, it's the ones who are happy to stroll about in some meaningless friendly just so they can add "Irish international" to their CV are the ones I have a problem with.

ok then it's open season.
Who wants an Irish cap?

Kirnsy

heavyballs wrote: »

are you suggesting that the centre of excellence in Holland hasn't been a success for a relitively small country,it has produced many talented players

think he was merely suggesting holland also benefit from the granny/grandad rule.along with france(vieria),spain(senna), italy (camorenesi) even england with hargreaves.

he didn't mention the centre of excellence?

heavyballs

keane2097 wrote: »

Nah this is complete muck.


Pull the other one Jim.

typical mindless comment,no need to be so insulting,is this a forum or what?

DM_7

I don't think the grandparent rule should be changed.

WHile there are always guys that are looking to take advantage of the rule there are others who really want to play for Ireland. Will turn up no matter what and do a great job. That is enough reason to keep the rule as is.

Johnny Utah

heavyballs wrote: »

are you suggesting that the centre of excellence in Holland hasn't been a success for a relitively small country,it has produced many talented players

No. As Kirnsy said, I was alluding to the fact that even the biggest nations in world football have relied on foreign-born players. In your opening post, you cited the Dutch as shining example of a country which is self-sufficient in providing home-grown talent, which I thought was slightly ironic given their tendency to handpick the best from their former colonies.

Maybe you should read up on citizenship law perhaps?

heavyballs

Johnny Utah wrote: »

No. As Kirnsy said, I was alluding to the fact that even the biggest nations in world football have relied on foreign-born players. In your opening post, you cited the Dutch as shining example of a country which is self-sufficient in providing home-grown talent, which I thought was slightly ironic given their tendency to handpick the best from their former colonies.

Maybe you should read up on citizenship law perhaps?

no need,i'm entitled to my opinion

IRISHSPORTSGUY

If I had the choice I would rather the grandparent rule is abolished (yeah, yeah I'm controversial etc). Yes it would mean we'd be weaker but to be honest I would see a League of Ireland player from Tallaght born and bred here than a player like Martin Rowlands, who isn't even that good anyway. Even if Wayne Rooney had declared himself for Ireland, I'd still prefer a bloke like Jason Byrne every time.

I have a lot of respect for someone like Dave Kitson, who despite not having a chance of breaking into the England team, declined the chance to play for Ireland because he only believes in playing for the country he was born and raised in. As an aside - it's understandable why Scots are pissed off with Aidan McGeady - they don't have great depth like the English do and it must be infuriating to see one of their best players, a bloke born and bred in Glasgow, went through the Scottish schooling system, whose football talent was developed in Scotland yet decides to play for a foreign country!

I also believe the manager should be an Irishman - tactics obviously play a huge role in the game. Everything should be Irish from the manager, right down to the kitman in my opinion. What's the point in international football if it isn't a comparison of one countries best to the others? Yes, I know the grandparent rule has brought us success, and Big Jack was our most successful manager (yada yada yada) but the above thoughts would be my ideal world.

FatherTed

Is there a (successful) international team besides Brazil and Argentina nowadays that does not have a non-native in their squad?

Off the top of my head:

Germany - Klose, Podolski (poland)
Italy - Camonerasi (Argentina)
Spain - Senna (Brazil)
Portugal - Deco(Brazil)
Holland - Winter(Suriname)
France - Mandanda(Congo)
England - hargreaves(Canada)
USA - Feilhaber(Brazil)
Mexico - Franco(Argentina)
Croatia - Eduardo(Brazil)
Poland - Guerreiro(brazil)
Japan - Alex(Brazil)

Eire-Dearg

Turkey have a few Brazilians too, IIRC.

A Dub in Glasgo

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

As an aside - it's understandable why Scots are pissed off with Aidan McGeady - they don't have great depth like the English do and it must be infuriating to see one of their best players, a bloke born and bred in Glasgow, went through the Scottish schooling system, whose football talent was developed in Scotland yet decides to play for a foreign country!

You should at least educate yourself about the situation before posting such drivel

heavyballs

FatherTed wrote: »

Is there a (successful) international team besides Brazil and Argentina nowadays that does not have a non-native in their squad?

Off the top of my head:

Germany - Klose, Podolski (poland)
Italy - Camonerasi (Argentina)
Spain - Senna (Brazil)
Portugal - Deco(Brazil)
Holland - Winter(Suriname)
France - Mandanda(Congo)
England - hargreaves(Canada)
USA - Feilhaber(Brazil)
Mexico - Franco(Argentina)
Croatia - Eduardo(Brazil)
Poland - Guerreiro(brazil)
Japan - Alex(Brazil)

this is about the gp rule and the fact that there should be a centre of excellence in this country
non-native is quite a loose term,i suppose it can differ between countries depending on their laws.Some like Holland an dEngland have colonies etc which i'm presuming gives them some right to exile

heavyballs

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

You should at least educate yourself about the situation before posting such drivel

an that's the best you can do,elaborate pls

A Dub in Glasgo

heavyballs wrote: »

an that's the best you can do,elaborate pls

Ok for the folk who are ignorant of the situation or cannot be bothered with their own research;

1. McGeady played for Scotland schools team when he was barely a teenager
2. Celtic sign McGeady at a very young age (I think 14)
3. Celtic have a policy of not allowing their youth players play for their schools (to protect their investment I assume)
4. SFA have a policy (since changed) of not selecting any player who does not play for their school
5. Packie Bonnar and Brian Kerr get wind of this and knowing how McGeady used to spend time at his Grandparents house on holiday in Donegal, they approach him to play for the RoI youth teams (under 15s I think)
6. He starts to play in all the youth team tournaments and teams
7. SFA ask McGeady to play for Scotland when he was about 16 or 17 andf he refuses as he is now integrated into the RoI setup