The Granny/Grandad Rule

Fenix

Even the Scots are at it!

Celtic rookie Islam Feruz last night became the first player to take advantage of the FIFA new eligibility ruling, after he was called up by Scotland’s Under-17 side. The 14 year old was born in Somalia, but qualifies as he holds a British passport and has been educated in one of the home nations for at least five years. He is set to meet up with the Under 17 squad next month ahead of three European Championship qualifiers.

His family moved to Glasgow seven years ago and his skills as a player soon brought him to the attention of Celtic, particularly the late Tommy Burns.

Edit : That was from around this time last month...

A Dub in Glasgo

Fenix wrote: »

Even the Scots are at it!



Edit : That was from around this time last month...

Yeah, geat story especially when you learn that he was a successfull asylum seeker

major bill

car wreck of a thread!!!!

Think of the future when the borders in europe cease to exist you could find a situation where a player in europe could take his pick;) or am i just in dreamland thinking of all those italian,spanish players in green jerseys:)

heavyballs

major bill wrote: »

car wreck of a thread!!!!

Think of the future when the borders in europe cease to exist you could find a situation where a player in europe could take his pick;) or am i just in dreamland thinking of all those italian,spanish players in green jerseys:)

have you actually read the thread ffs

major bill

heavyballs wrote: »

have you actually read the thread ffs

yea i have and your getting slaughtered!!! your basically saying kilbane and all shouldnt be playing for ireland cos he's ''english'':rolleyes:

heavyballs

heavyballs wrote: »

I beleive the grandparent rule should be abolished ,yes,is that a difficult concept to grasp?

you obviosly havn't read the post and if i'm getting lashed at least i have a strong opinion on the matter which is more than can be said for you.

briany

I like listening to English accents, they are nice to listen to (most regions). We need all the players we can get anyways. English but couldn't make the team but have an Irish granny? Get on board! Nothern Irish but something about playing for them just doesn't seem right.....Get on board! Scottish but your name is Aiden McGeady or Ray Houghton.......Get on board baby! As long as they give 100 percent in a not too cynical way, hey its all good.

heavyballs

briany wrote: »

I like listening to English accents, they are nice to listen to (most regions). We need all the players we can get anyways. English but couldn't make the team but have an Irish granny? Get on board! Nothern Irish but something about playing for them just doesn't seem right.....Get on board! Scottish but your name is Aiden McGeady or Ray Houghton.......Get on board baby!

and what about improving the standard of football played by ireland by having a centre of excellence so that the future of irish football has a purpose instead of relying on hand me downs from our neighbours,is there anybody on this site with any logic at all?

Sútalún

heavyballs wrote: »

you obviosly havn't read the post and if i'm getting lashed at least i have a strong opinion on the matter which is more than can be said for you.

You've got a strong but very misguided opinion on the matter. Naming Kilbane as a player you don't like to see playing for Ireland because of his accent is absolutely absurd, borer line insane. I mean the fella grew up as an Irish man, learnt how to play hurling, sings the national anthem. Fairly ignorant of you to talk about him in that regard to be honest.

Sútalún

heavyballs wrote: »

is there anybody on this site with any logic at all?

How old are you!? Honestly.. You're the one posting unlogical drivel. I mean back your arguement up with actual facts or sensible points. Instead of.. "I believe in this reaally strongly; everyone else is wrong."

briany

heavyballs wrote: »

and what about improving the standard of football played by ireland by having a centre of excellence so that the future of irish football has a purpose instead of relying on hand me downs from our neighbours,is there anybody on this site with any logic at all?

Hey if they wanna play for Ireland it doesn't bother me. A center of excellence would be a great idea too though. But if a future centre piece of the team's accent was pure london, it would not bother me as long as he wanted to play in the shirt and gave it everything.

heavyballs

Sútalún wrote: »

You've got a strong but very misguided opinion on the matter. Naming Kilbane as a player you don't like to see playing for Ireland because of his accent is absolutely absurd, borer line insane. I mean the fella grew up as an Irish man, learnt how to play hurling, sings the national anthem. Fairly ignorant of you to talk about him in that regard to be honest.

oh boo hoo,his parents are English,
do i have to spell it out.I don't beleive the grandparent rule should ever have been allowed.Is that so hard to grasp?
The only other way to play for Ireland,eg an imigrant is if you are declared an Irish citizen by the government.

heavyballs

briany wrote: »

Hey if they wanna play for Ireland it doesn't bother me. A center of excellence would be a great idea too though. But if a future centre piece of the team's accent was pure london, it would not bother me as long as he wanted to play in the shirt and gave it everything.

fair point but a lot of them play for us for their benefit and the contractual benefits it gives them

Sútalún

heavyballs wrote: »

oh boo hoo,his parents are English,
do i have to spell it out.I don't beleive the grandparent rule should ever have been allowed.Is that so hard to grasp?
The only other way to play for Ireland,eg an imigrant is if you are declared an Irish citizen by the government.

Eh...source? Fairly sure at least one of his parents are Irish. Anyway I dont really care what you think. It's a loada Sh!te.. I mean why act all high and mighty? Its not hard to grasp..Im just not agreeing with you. IS THAT so hard to grasp??? It's called debating..and that's what people do on a forum. You just repeat what you previously said..ya havent said anything new.

heavyballs

Sútalún wrote: »

How old are you!? Honestly.. You're the one posting unlogical drivel. I mean back your arguement up with actual facts or sensible points. Instead of.. "I believe in this reaally strongly; everyone else is wrong."

.

what facts,clown
It's an opinion.
I'll give you one fact though.Someone earlier mentioned what about Cascarino,well he was a fraud,he said he thought his grandad was Irish but they got it wrong.

ctrl-alt-delete

heavyballs wrote: »

.

what facts,clown
It's an opinion.
I'll give you one fact though.Someone earlier mentioned what about Cascarino,well he was a fraud,he said he thought his grandad was Irish but they got it wrong.

Cascarino was legit, he was a fraud for a while to sell some books.

event

heavyballs wrote: »

oh boo hoo,his parents are English,
do i have to spell it out.I don't beleive the grandparent rule should ever have been allowed.Is that so hard to grasp?
The only other way to play for Ireland,eg an imigrant is if you are declared an Irish citizen by the government.

What's the point of the thread then?
You have an opinion, it doesn't look like you will change your mind so there's no point really
should be closed tbh

major bill

its a bit hypocritcal in fairness that we give out about players with english accents playing for ireland when how many irish went over for work in the fiftys/sixtys and started familys over there? they are irish end off but as i said earlyer i would question some footballers only using us to advance their career but alot of them are legit tbf

heavyballs

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

Cascarino was legit, he was a fraud for a while to sell some books.

Republic of Ireland striker Tony Cascarino has revealed that he was never qualified to represent the Emerald Isle.

The former Chelsea, Aston villa, Celtic, Marseille and Nancy striker won 88 caps for the Republic on the strength of a maternal grandfather from Westport, Michael O'Malley.
However, in his autobiography 'Full Time: The Secret life of Tony Cascarino', he now admits that O'Malley was not his mother's natural father, rendering him ineligible under international rules. Cascarino's mother had been aware of the fact throughout his career, but only told him after he had retired from international football

heavyballs

event wrote: »

What's the point of the thread then?
You have an opinion, it doesn't look like you will change your mind so there's no point really
should be closed tbh

if you don't like it don't post,that's pretty simple isn't it

Sútalún

heavyballs wrote: »

if you don't like it don't post,that's pretty simple isn't it

But if anyone posts you'll just disagree with them..? Honestly should be closed..

heavyballs

Sútalún wrote: »

But if anyone posts you'll just disagree with them..? Honestly should be closed..

i beg to disagree

major bill

ridiculous thread defo close it op getting hammered!!!

heavyballs

major bill wrote: »

ridiculous thread defo close it op getting hammered!!!

i can take it.

Sútalún

heavyballs wrote: »

i beg to disagree

Suprising.. Didnt think you were the disagreeing type.

The_Kew_Tour

I remember three players that were born outside England for them in 1990 world cup and nobody said a thing. Terry Butcher and John Barnes were two cant remember the other.

Ireland were the first side to use the rule to good effect lets say. But look at France for instance Zidane for example is from Algeria bet ya though France did not care.

Lets be frank also some the so called English born players had more pride in playing for Ireland them some of our own homegrown players today. A guy playing outfield for Manchester City this season comes to mind.

heavyballs

there was a debate on this exact point on a couple of forums and there was quite a mixed response,i really can't understand the lob-sided viewpoint on this matter.
Fyi i'm not a kid,i'm in my 30's and have played loi for 6 years ,been on trials in england as a teen,have played ball at a high level since i was a kid and a lot of lads i've played with over the years agree with me also,

Zaph

adrian280582 wrote: »

I remember three players that were born outside England for them in 1990 world cup and nobody said a thing. Terry Butcher and John Barnes were two cant remember the other.

Tony Dorigo was the third, born in Australia.

Sútalún

heavyballs wrote: »

there was a debate on this exact point on a couple of forums and there was quite a mixed response,i really can't understand the lob-sided viewpoint on this matter.
Fyi i'm not a kid,i'm in my 30's and have played loi for 6 years ,been on trials in england as a teen,have played ball at a high level since i was a kid and a lot of lads i've played with over the years agree with me also,

Fair enough mate and you're right it's an interesting topic. But ya have to let people discuss it and give their opinions. Personally I don't like players playing for irish that are only doing it for the fame/ego-boost..but I dont think the granny-rule will abolish this and I dont think it should be abolished. I mean it would rule out people who might want to play for us, and people who see ireland as their home country.

L'prof

heavyballs wrote: »

there was a debate on this exact point on a couple of forums and there was quite a mixed response,i really can't understand the lob-sided viewpoint on this matter.
Fyi i'm not a kid,i'm in my 30's and have played loi for 6 years ,been on trials in england as a teen,have played ball at a high level since i was a kid and a lot of lads i've played with over the years agree with me also,

I see, coming to the twilight years of your career and looking back at what might have been...if it hadn't been for those fúckérs with their English accents!!!

Like it or lump it, they wanted to play for Ireland (for whatever reason) and the coaches at the time deemed them to be worthy of their place in the squad. These were some of the best players we had at our disposal at the time and we'd have been worse off if they weren't in the team.

OPENROAD

What would be peoples opinion playing for a country on a residence rule i.e having no family connection with that country but having lived in that country for a certain amount of time, personally would see nothing wrong with this.

L'prof

OPENROAD wrote: »

What would be peoples opinion playing for a country on a residence rule i.e having no family connection with that country but having lived in that country for a certain amount of time, personally would see nothing wrong with this.

It's already there a la Eduardo, no?

OPENROAD

jasonorr wrote: »

It's already there a la Eduardo, no?

It is, just interested in how others feel about this.

briany

OPENROAD wrote: »

What would be peoples opinion playing for a country on a residence rule i.e having no family connection with that country but having lived in that country for a certain amount of time, personally would see nothing wrong with this.

Hey if you got a good striker out of it then yeah BUT it would have to be a slim allocation no more than a handful on the squad at most. I could see FAs all over the world drafting in ringers from wherever, setting them up with houses and citizenship papers when they are all of 18 on the grounds they play for their adopted country after the right amount of time has passed. Could get messy.

L'prof

OPENROAD wrote: »

It is, just interested in how others feel about this.

No problem with it to be honest, you can see why the Brazilians are scattered around the globe...most with no chance of ever playing for their home country.

OPENROAD

It is likely the situation will be reversed in the coming years where you will have Irish born playing for the likes of Poland, Nigeria etc...


Personally I see nothing wrong with playing for whatever country you want to with a parent/grand parent/residency rule.

Johnny Utah

OPENROAD wrote: »

What would be peoples opinion playing for a country on a residence rule i.e having no family connection with that country but having lived in that country for a certain amount of time, personally would see nothing wrong with this.

Any decent player would have already played for his country of birth, unless that country had a wealth (such as Eduardo & Brazil). So, this rule really only benefits the smaller nations. Although, having said that, Eduardo is good enough for Brazil and probably should have been called up at a younger age.

OPENROAD

Johnny Utah wrote: »

Any decent player would have already played for his country of birth, unless that country had a wealth (such as Eduardo & Brazil). So, this rule really only benefits the smaller nations. Although, having said that, Eduardo is good enough for Brazil and probably should have been called up at a younger age.

Maybe at youth level, but they can still play for the country their club happens to be in if they have not been capped.

Johnny Utah

OPENROAD wrote: »

Maybe at youth level, but they can still play for the country their club happens to be in if they have not been capped.

Yeah, I know. I meant to say that a decent player would normally have played with the senior team of his country of birth. Eg, Eduardo probably should have been called up by Brazil to get a full cap at senior level when he was doing well in the Croatian league.

Lamper.sffc

I have no problem with it mostly but like most of the rest, if its just to further their career and not out of some sense of pride for their country then I dont want them.

I would take a Kevin Kilbane over a Stephen Ireland any day

heavyballs wrote: »

Does anyone else share my view on this:
I'm sick and tired of listening to the likes of Leon Best,Kilbane etc with their English accents(i've nothing v the english btw)in their pre and post match interviews.
I beleive many years ago we should have done away with the rule that allows us to pick players with Irish grandparents.
Well i know we wouldn't have made it to the finals of 88'90 and 94 tourneys.
However the FAI would have been forced to open an academy much like the FA and Dutch academy's which would have produced a higher calibre player than the second hand English hand-me-downs that we currently have.

Finally can anybody name 1 player with an English accent who would have made it into the starting 11 of the English team at the time

Not many. No:)

OPENROAD

Lamper.sffc wrote: »

I have no problem with it mostly but like most of the rest, if its just to further their career and not out of some sense of pride for their country then I dont want them.

What is the difference though as long as they give 100%

LuckyLloyd

A sense of Irishness is something that transcends the actualities of birthplace and parental nationality. Trying to define it in such black and white terms seems ridiculous to me.

As long as a player loves playing for Ireland and devotes every fabric of his being to the cause when he gets that chance, he's Irish enough for me. Kevin Kilbane is a hero for our football team. He clearly believe he's Irish. Shouldn't that be enough for you?

OPENROAD

Just want to expand on a point I made regarding the possiblity that in the future you could have Irish born people playing for the country of their parents, how do people feel about this?

Lamper.sffc

OPENROAD wrote: »

What is the difference though as long as they give 100%

I guess my point is that I dont feel these players would give 100%.

OPENROAD

Lamper.sffc wrote: »

I guess my point is that I dont feel these players would give 100%.

I just think when you get to grandparents the connection/pride may not be there or as strong,but that doesn't mean as a professional you will not give 100%.

LuckyLloyd

OPENROAD wrote: »

Just want to expand on a point I made regarding the possiblity that in the future you could have Irish born people playing for the country of their parents, how do people feel about this?

The reality created by the economic immigration we have experienced over the past 15 years is that there will be a significant minority section of the Irish population that have grown up here, yet feel a stronger affinity to the nation of their parent's birth. A kid that is raised in a Dublin household where Polish is the language of choice, where his parents / his parent's friends and relations constantly discuss Poland / Polish societal issues, and where the people around him avidly cheer for Polish sports teams is likely to feel a very strong sense of Polishness. Couple all of that with frequent holidays to his parent's original Polish home, and they may very well prefer to represent Poland as opposed to Ireland in the event that they become an International class footballer.

And that is perfectly fine, and entirely the choice of the individual concerned.

CCCP^

You make a centre of excellence and where do the players go?

The Premier League. Ireland is on the doorstep of the biggest league in the World. The Premier League is our centre of excellence. I have no problems with players who haved proved themselves as regular players in that league with Irish backgrounds declaring for Ireland, especially when one of them, Kilbane, has been such a mainstay of our team. He's world class - FACT.

A Dub in Glasgo

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The reality created by the economic immigration we have experienced over the past 15 years is that there will be a significant minority section of the Irish population that have grown up here, yet feel a stronger affinity to the nation of their parent's birth. A kid that is raised in a Dublin household where Polish is the language of choice, where his parents / his parent's friends and relations constantly discuss Poland / Polish societal issues, and where the people around him avidly cheer for Polish sports teams is likely to feel a very strong sense of Polishness. Couple all of that with frequent holidays to his parent's original Polish home, and they may very well prefer to represent Poland as opposed to Ireland in the event that they become an International class footballer.

And that is perfectly fine, and entirely the choice of the individual concerned.

I agree that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the above. It is exactly the scenerio that thousands of kids find themselves with respect to Ireland including my 2 kids although I doubt they will ever become footballers!

m@cc@

FatherTed wrote: »

Is there a (successful) international team besides Brazil and Argentina nowadays that does not have a non-native in their squad?

Off the top of my head:

Germany - Klose, Podolski (poland)
Italy - Camonerasi (Argentina)
Spain - Senna (Brazil)
Portugal - Deco(Brazil)
Holland - Winter(Suriname)
France - Mandanda(Congo)
England - hargreaves(Canada)
USA - Feilhaber(Brazil)
Mexico - Franco(Argentina)
Croatia - Eduardo(Brazil)
Poland - Guerreiro(brazil)
Japan - Alex(Brazil)

Just adding to this Evra (Senegal) & Boumsong (Cameroon). It is interesting to wonder how good some of the African nations would have been back when France were winning the World Cup had those players been playing for the country of their birth.

everdead.ie

I have an idea!!! lets set up some colonies then we'll have loads of granny rule ppl to choose from:D
Does anyone remember Keane giving out about henry because he chose to play for france instead of his native senegal?