Inferno Ranbat 6

Dreddybajs

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

Yet that's a fiver they would not have gotten otherwise

Only if you assume more than half of the non-seeded entrants (which is 8 people right?) wouldn't enter if the entry fee was a tenner - which from previous turnouts is not true.

L31mr0d

chopperbyrne wrote: »

No.

Might as well just have casual tournaments instead.

It was only a suggestion. It would be better than lowering the entrance fee overall, which other people are suggesting. Would stop people moaning about paying €15 then getting knocked out in the first round, by having the first round free to everyone.

Placebo

quick question on how tourney will be run, will we have matches running simultaneously ? who will be responsible in setting/assigning the matches?
from my experiences its a pain.

Dreddybajs

L31mr0d wrote: »

It was only a suggestion. It would be better than lowering the entrance fee overall, which other people are suggesting. Would stop people moaning about paying €15 then getting knocked out in the first round, by having the first round free to everyone.

Which cuts the prize pool in half surely?

Cunny-Funt

Dreddybajs wrote: »

Only if you assume more than half of the non-seeded entrants (which is 8 people right?) wouldn't enter if the entry fee was a tenner - which from previous turnouts is not true.

True, I suppose I was thinking in terms of attracting more people to it. Who normally wouldn't play. But thats not really gonna happen, or happen fast anyway.



**Note**

I only saw azza's post now, so I'll get to that.

chopperbyrne

Placebo wrote: »

quick question on how tourney will be run, will we have matches running simultaneously ? who will be responsible in setting/assigning the matches?
from my experiences its a pain.

Group stages and opening matches of the double elimination have been run concurrently previously.

L31mr0d

Dreddybajs wrote: »

Which cuts the prize pool in half surely?

Well if you assume the same number of people would enter regardless of if they'd have to pay or not.

I mean in all honesty I'd say leave it as is. I'm just throwing out ideas since the topic is being discussed to gauge consensus.

I mean I won't be entering this tournament, purely because I know, even at my best, there is still people there I couldn't beat (partly due to not putting in enough training and also maining a character made out of toilet paper). I'd say this should be the mentality of everyone else, rather than trying to get the entrance fee lowered, just don't enter until you're ready to prove the old axiom

Placebo

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Group stages and opening matches of the double elimination have been run concurrently previously.

i hope you and me draw first.

http://www.freakygaming.com/gallery/game_comics/street_fighter/honda_vs_chun_li_2.jpg

Cunny-Funt

@ Azza

Azza wrote: »

Why should they have to pay more than the other players or get less of a prize when the majority of players want the larger prize pot. Perhaps if the current top players get usurped from there throne in the future they can say I've got no chance I want a reduced entry fee until my skills improve or everyone else gets worse.

Well I was more coming from the perspective of people who are affected by the recession + plus havnt a hope in placing top 10 to have an 'option' to pay a fiver less if they 'need' to. But pay full if they can.

Not a concrete 'players of Skill A pay this and players of Skill B pay that.'

& also it could then give the option of raising the fee to even higher than 15 guilt free.

But I'm probably being too naive here really, in reality it is impossible to please everyone and you are right in that the current option pleases more people then those who are displeased with it. And since I have no issues with the fee myself, and those that do don't seem to like the idea either, I think my utopian tourney fee's idea is well...

Humanity isn't ready yet

Azza wrote: »

I think people should think of the prize pot as a motivator to get good. Don't you want a piece of that juicy apple pie? If you where in with shout of winning and spend a considerable amount of time and effort trying to improve would you not want the prize pot to be as big as possible?

Personally, for me it'd be more about winning the damn thing, or placing high. The money isnt something I think about, it'd be more like an 'oh yeah i get money too, sweet' kinda thing

But having prize money does make the tourney more a legit tourney and not seem so casual. In fact I look forward to the day when we have a big enough one where we give out trophies.

I also like the idea of prizes, along with money. Having an object you won for placing somewhere in a tourney would be sweet. From ****ty USB fans (that'd go down well when brought to XGC ) to Arcade sticks maybe? Custom made ones so they're unique. With like an Irish flag or something, or since we play with the lads from the North , an image of the whole country.. kinda thing.. The All Ireland FightStick.... yeah.. lol

**edit** oh yeah and t-shirts!

A-Trak

Leprekaun wrote: »

Offtopic, I think the Terry Sagat joke has been milked to death lads

Personally, I'd be completely disgusted at myself if I ever managed to pass an opportunity to have a go at Terry and his Sagat picking regime.

On topic, I think Azzas last post makes complete sense.
It's worth having the larger pot to draw players from further afield in, as some of the top players are far flung.
Playing folk better then yourself is always a good thing.








P.S. Terry is scum.

Doctor DooM

Dreddybajs wrote: »

Cheers Farzad but I'm cursed, I'll draw blag/azza first round yet again and get destroyed :pac:

Least it's not just me. I've only once gone beyond the first elimination round. I don't mind paying into the experience though.

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

I don't really understand why it has to be a can of worms. The only reason I can actually think of for anyone to really have an issues with this is that those who think they have a shot at winning money at the end will be pissed off that they potentially won a bit less cause some 1 only paid a fiver.

Please don't take this the wrong way dude but thats an incredibly innocent way of looking at the world. There'll always be someone out to take advantage.

ayjayirl wrote: »

Naw, My time for beating Doom is fast approaching. He is soo scared of me now that he took SF4 with him so I couldn't practice whilst he was away.

Oh come on. You know the score. You get better, and I auto focus and you lose again. Thats just nature.

Cunny-Funt

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Please don't take this the wrong way dude but thats an incredibly innocent way of looking at the world. There'll always be someone out to take advantage.

What the foooooooooook did you just say to me!?:mad:

hehe Nah tbh, you're right.

Owwmykneecap

I think the problem lies in how regularly these things are.
If they are less than once a month like now then a big fee and a big prize is probably needed.

If they were more regular, scheduled every 2 weeks for a season of 4/6/8 weeks with small fees, small weekly prizes and a large overall prize, with a proper league based system, and without seeding (****ing sepp blater)

Also with the dates settled long in advance, I Imagine attendance would be better

Of course no reason why both couldn't happen. too close to chrimbo now to be starting anything now though, so a one off big tourny is better for the mo.

Also I have no idea how a tiered fee system could ever work.

Leprekaun

Azza wrote: »

During the build up to one of the first tournaments and at the tournament itself the entry fee was discussed . Basically we had proponents for €10 and €15 euro entry fee. A considerable majority expressed preference for the €15 euro entry fee, something in the region of 20-4. People who traveled to the event outside Dublin felt it made the expense of travelling more worthwhile as getting a good result would cover the cost of attending several events. The only exception being Leprekaun who has abnormally high travel expenses due to his location.

We have got a few new additions to the community since then and I'm pretty sure the majority ratio be roughly the same in favor of the €15 entry fee.

Speaking for myself, I think the €15 entry fee is reasonable and offers a great pot prize for the top 2 players and a great incentive for people to try and improve there game and be in with a shot. While the glory of winning is nice it would not motivate me to travel the 2 hours it requires me to get there on its own. A €10 euro entry fee would probably see the top prize drop to €75 at moment and considering I spend €30 odd euro to get to Dublin and paying the entry as well as pay for a few snacks that drops any potential prize for me to at most €40 euro. The risk reward ratio like the Gief match up is not in my favor Such a prize pot is not likely going to inspire me to practice and put much effort into getting better either.

Now I see where some players are coming from who feel the have no chance of winning. But if we where to lower the entry fee for these players until they feel the can compete the prize pot would never go back up as there will always be someone who feels they can't compete. It would also be unfair on the players who can play better now. Why should they have to pay more than the other players or get less of a prize when the majority of players want the larger prize pot. Perhaps if the current top players get usurped from there throne in the future they can say I've got no chance I want a reduced entry fee until my skills improve or everyone else gets worse.

I know people already know they are not being forced to enter. Its fine if people want to sit it out or just play casual or come and watch. If you want time to practice so you can up your game then sit the tournaments out, get in as much practice as you can, play as many casuals and online games as you can, watch as many games as you can and read up on the match ups.

I think people should think of the prize pot as a motivator to get good. Don't you want a piece of that juicy apple pie? If you where in with shout of winning and spend a considerable amount of time and effort trying to improve would you not want the prize pot to be as big as possible? While it would be ideal to have everyone compete even if a few people sit out the tournament the prize pot would still be bigger than if entry fee was lowered for everyone.

No one here is near pro yet so there is plenty of room for improvements.
The top seeded players are all beatable, you just have to be willing to put in some time and learn.

I'm not bothered by the cost since tourneys are done once in every while but what I'm bothered with is the principle. Like Cunny said, the motivation of the tourney should be about the glory, not the money.

I'm a little confused towards about your idea of upping the cost of the tourney to make it more worthwhile for the people coming from the north since I'm part of the same group. For sure, it would be in our interests (from the north) if the tourney entry fee was upped because of the expenses of traveling down but to support in saying that up the costs to serve as an incentive for people to come down from the north, there will only be 3 people who get prizes.

Considering the results of the tourney we ran, 2 people from the north came 1st and 2nd out of a total 5 players (Simon and Mike Guilfoyle, Dan Pollack, myself and my brother) but total cost for the rest of us was a hard hit to take. Of course, that is the nature of competition (winners and losers). After playing against players like James (blag) or just watching Mike, it doesn't take a genius to realise some of us don't stand a chance so the incentive of winning some money goes out the window.

I mean, I've pretty much decided not to enter any more tourneys until I know I'm up to the top level players in Ireland. Otherwise, its just gambling.

Reanimemmett

Has a day been decided for this yet?

Cunny-Funt

For me, I'm just paying to take part in an experience, I personally don't really see it as gambling. I suppose I find it pretty cool to be in a tournament with Ireland and Northern Ireland's best players. Being able to compete with them and learn something. I'll get my assed kicked, but take note of my placement, and aim to place higher next time. Theres a buzz to it, so I figure its worth the money.

But I live in Dublin so its much much cheaper for me.

Ryan I totally understand your position. But I'd still say give it a lash anyway. You might still find it worth the money. You might have some epic fights and place a lot higher then you'd expect.

Placebo

i forgot theres a runner up prize, so u never know,
i got runner up last time, with terry[whore], jim, 'emmet' and paul around

took em all down !

Ry

I disagree with seperate fee's for different level players as

#1: it's not fair on those who are undoubtedly more skilled

and

#2: It's far too subjective and case by case when judging the in betweeners etc and as someone pointed out, people will try to take advantage of this.

1 fee for all I would say.

With that however,

I play the game for the enjoyment of the game against other people and to better hone my own game not for the money. The only reason I come to the tournaments is to play with others better than me.

It's this fact that has driven me away from playing in the upcoming tournament as I find too much focus is being put on the prize pot rather than just having a small incentive there as a bonus and/or a "congratulatory few pints" or whatever from all of us to whoever wins. We're all still very much in the "just go to practice against others and have a laugh" phase of our game so creating large prize pots I feel detracts from the spirit of why we're all actually there by and large.

Ry

K.O.Kiki

I find that we play BETTER when there's money on the line.

Well, everybody other than me, anyway.

Cunny-Funt

If I make it to this one Farz and decide to play stick over pad, I may just be maining chunny instead of Ryu since I'm ****ing up less with her atm.. time will tell, muhahahaha

@ Ryan, yeah I'm in it for the game, so are a lot of people, but there are those who are in it for the money.. f*ck it, it doesn't effect me. I don't give much thought to the prize pot, and I'm glad I don't. I just want to play well. I think most people are the same. I dunno. You should take part for the craic, so what if others are in it for the money. Prize pot at the end makes it more of an official tourney rather then a casual one. This increases the buzz I think.

Orim

First off, I don't think there is anyone who plays for anything other then love of the game.

For me the money in the tournament is the difference between us being a few mates who meet up for a few games of Street Fighter and a group of players who are actively trying to create a fighting game scene in this country. That's why I am going to enter the Tekken tournament as I want to do things which help build the scene. My dream is to have an Irish "EVO" in a hotel or conference center, with all sorts of games and competitions. Hell we get it done for spring next year and we get our hands on an early release of SSFIV. Unrealistic maybe but who knows what could happen.

If it was reduced below a tenner for the tournament then it seems to me that is becoming the casual tournament where we buy the winner a couple of pints. That's all well and good but I would rather be able to say that we had a tournament with a 500 euro prize pot. We do something like and maybe we can encourage some players from England to come over for a tournament.

As I said early I would like to see the prize pot spilt down the ranks a bit more. This isn't just an issue with our tournaments, in all fighting game tournaments around the world, the prize pot goes to first three with first place getting a massive chunk.
I don't think it would be all that horrible to spilt it up a bit more.
As an example with a €300 pot :
1st - 40% - €120
2nd - 25% - €75
3rd - 15% - €45
4th - 10% - €30
Joint 5th - 5% each - €15

Now some people might say that it's not much of a prize for first place but I think that's becaise we are so used to first place getting a huge percentage of the pot. Of course these figures could be tweaked a bit to change prizes in one direction or another especially as I just realised that I took pretty all the prize fund off first place

bush

I dont think 4th and 5th should get anything, we dont get enough players for that kind of split. The first tournaments ran there only paid out for 1st and 2nd. That was fair enough to me.

Orim

That's a good point Bush and I wouldn't push the extra spilt too hard. Just wanted to say it as it is a major pet peeve of mine. Like at evo where the spilt was 70/20/10 out of about a thousand players. I could be wrong about the exact spilt but it was still something stupid considering the size of the event

K.O.Kiki

I'd vote for

1. 60%
2. 25%
3. 10%
4. 5%

or thereabouts.

That way, out of a €300 pot, 4th breaks even. And it's less hassle to find 3rd + 4th than it is to also find 5th + 6th.

Probably.

Dreddybajs

I think top 3 getting paid is fine personally, wouldn't bother me if 4th place got their money back or something either, but I don't think it's necessary and I think any more than that is just getting silly.

Ry

3rd Place playoffs are always interesting too.

chopperbyrne

Ry wrote: »

3rd Place playoffs are always interesting too.

There is no third place playoff in double elimination.

Loser of losers final is third.

K.O.Kiki

Man, I really need to progress to Loser's Final sometime.

Orim

chopperbyrne wrote: »

There is no third place playoff in double elimination.

Loser of losers final is third.

Otherwise known as the Big Fat Loser

Azza

AND NOW A PUBLIC SERVICE BROADCAST OF TERROR FROM OUT RESIDENT DICTATOR

Commence bowing now

Owwmykneecap wrote:

I think the problem lies in how regularly these things are.
If they are less than once a month like now then a big fee and a big prize is probably needed.

If they were more regular, scheduled every 2 weeks for a season of 4/6/8 weeks with small fees, small weekly prizes and a large overall prize, with a proper league based system, and without seeding (****ing sepp blater)

Well roughly the tournaments happen once every 4-6 weeks. So its little bit less regular than once a month. The casuals which are not tournament based but can have their own for fun tournaments occur pretty much weekly. There is plenty of casuals to accommodate people who think don't fancy there chances at a tournament. I don't think 4-6 weeks is overdoing it for a tournament.

As for the current tournament system and seeding, I think its what the majority wants, but your welcome to try an convince the community of the merits of an alternate system.

Leprekaun wrote:

I'm not bothered by the cost since tourneys are done once in every while but what I'm bothered with is the principle.

Leprekaun wrote:

I mean, I've pretty much decided not to enter any more tourneys until I know I'm up to the top level players in Ireland. Otherwise, its just gambling.

Nice contradiction. You obviously do have an issue with the entry fee because your pretty much the most vocal proponent of lowering the fee as your where last time you kept bringing the issue up and have admitted you don't want to enter tournaments because you feel your odds of you making top 3 are not high. Be up front about it like Ry and Leimr0d and not try and imply your only want the fee lowered just out of concern for maybe 3 or 4 others that feel the same way you do.

Leprekaun wrote:

Like Cunny said, the motivation of the tourney should be about the glory, not the money.

Which is your opinion which your entitled too. Not everyone is required to share it. It is about both, but for different people they will have a different emphasis on which is more important.The glory will always be there regardless of the prize pot, perhaps though the pressure level is different but both are accommodated at the large tournaments.

Leprekaun wrote:

I'm a little confused towards about your idea of upping the cost of the tourney to make it more worthwhile for the people coming from the north since I'm part of the same group.

You maybe from up north (but sill a southy technically ) but your not the entire northern gaming community and at the time you where not associated with the established northern fight game community. I asked not just them but also other people from the south traveling from outside Dublin as well as the people within Dublin and a large majority expressed a preference for the larger entry fee. If a majority expresses a wish to lower it then yeah we will lower it. If its an even or close to even split we can compromise but at the moment its a case of the minority being vocal about the issue.

Leprekaun wrote:

After playing against players like James (blag) or just watching Mike, it doesn't take a genius to realise some of us don't stand a chance so the incentive of winning some money goes out the window.

My last post was really a diplomatic way of saying its not the good players fault your sh**.:p But seriously I would normally say you simply need to play and practice more but granted your in a rather remote isolated area from the rest of the fighting game community which hurts your ability to up your game and there is only so much you can on your own to improve. But its really a case of throwing the toys out of the pram, I don't want a large entry fee until I have a chance of wining. In which case the fee will be permanently be stuck at the lower level because there will be always someone with that mentality, there is always going to be stronger and weaker. Some one has to be the Toro Rosso of the group be if you keep putting the effort in you could be Force India!.

Reanimemmett wrote:

Has a day been decided for this yet?

Its the 5th. Short and to the point. I like your type of post Reanimemmett!

Ry wrote:

I play the game for the enjoyment of the game against other people and to better hone my own game not for the money. The only reason I come to the tournaments is to play with others better than me.

It's this fact that has driven me away from playing in the upcoming tournament as I find too much focus is being put on the prize pot rather than just having a small incentive there as a bonus and/or a "congratulatory few pints" or whatever from all of us to whoever wins. We're all still very much in the "just go to practice against others and have a laugh" phase of our game so creating large prize pots I feel detracts from the spirit of why we're all actually there by and large.

Again your entitled to your own reason for playing the game and entering competitions which of of course is perfectly fine. Not everyone however is focused on the prize pot as you are. If I go out early I'm not going to cry about it. If I'm in a with a shot of winning at a latter stage in the tournament, sure thoughts of the prize pot enter my mind in between games but quickly disappear when I'm playing a game. Your going get the occasionally bit of sour grapes but we get them in casuals as well. I enjoy myself weather I win or loose. I personally don't feel any extra pressure with a prize pot at stake.

Just in general for people who say we are loosing sight of why we are here and we are taking this too seriously.

The rules, seeding and prize money are simply there to get the tournaments as close to international standards as possible. I don't see why this Irish mentality of everything has to be as casual as possible to cater for the people who think they can't compete. The system will allow people to get use to playing for prize money, to compete with a standard rule set that isn't totally alien if they want to compete abroad. No none of us are pro's but if people want to try and take the next step then the current set up would make the transition easier.

Its not that I or top players spend any considerable amount of time sweating over the details, we are not obsessed with it. Its the people who believe they are not in with a chance who keep bringing this stuff up. The rules need to be set in advance before hand so people no whats going happen in the case of a certain scenario and that the rules are not just being made up on the spot (f**k you Sepp Blatter).

We are not forgetting about fun or taking this too serious (its god damn irritating to hear some people say that and just totally ironic hearing it from others) its just practical planing and decision making.

You can stop bowing now

PS Guile sucks. Long live classy Terry and his noble and heroic Sagat.