Why not join a club?

--amadeus--

Tingle wrote: »

If you don’t want to join a club because you know it all and think you'll be wasting your time and will learn nothing then thats a different kettle of fish.

The first two reasons I can fully understand, the third one, now that’s bollix.

But I *do* know it all!

Being serious I don't think that anyone knows everything and I'll hold my hand up and admit I have huge amounts to learn. I'll pick anyone's brains given half a chance.

But I don't see how I will progress as a marathon runner by doing 600m reps with the juniors (which is what I was sent off to do the only time I attended a club session, pretty the sum total of interaction I had from the coach was a "well done" at the end)

Some people simply do not want to run with a group. I don't. And since the whole central point of a running club is to run with a group it seems pretty pointless joining one if you don't like it.

DP - no really good reason for not joining BAC, apart from my irrational anti-club bias

ecoli

Kissy Lips wrote: »

Cost would prevent me joining e.g. Why does Tallaght AC charge 120 euro per year but Eagle AC charge 40 euro per year? I have mailed Tallaght AC about this but did not get a response.

I know it is a bit of a steep one alright however factors which cause the club to charge such a price are;

1.Brand new state of the art track with full lighting
2. Top range clubhouse

The fact that these overheads eat into any money raised. The Club try to raise alot of money through bag packs and other fund raising events in order to try and keep memberships as low as possible. Though the single membership is that much being a family orientated club our family rates are extremely competitive. In regards to our IT apect we are definitely lacking and is something that is trying to be addressed but all help is voluntary and hats of they so try their best. Hope this gives a little more insight

dna_leri

meathcountysec wrote: »

To be definitive, maybe;)

To run in county xc championships races the relevant county board would have to allow guests take part.

To run in Munster xc championships the Munster Council would have to allow guests to take part.

Anyone can run in open xc races

Maybe this is why some people do not join a club - too much unwanted administration and complication and they want to keep running simple, the way it should be. Its a pity AAI is so structured in its county, provincial setup, (but I undestand why this is so) which makes it difficult for a diverse club such as Boards to fit in.

From my point of view, I get very little from my club since my work-life schedule usually gets in the way, so I mostly end up training on my own. However for a very nominal fee, I do get the opportunity to compete in club/AAI competitions and occasionally get to participate in club track sessions at a discounted rate.

However if you are an independent-minded person who does not need the spur provided by other runners to keep to a training schedule or push harder in a session, then there probably is very little benefit of joining other than the social one that you get here.

Stupid_Private

--amadeus-- wrote: »

But I don't see how I will progress as a marathon runner by doing 600m reps with the juniors (which is what I was sent off to do the only time I attended a club session, pretty the sum total of interaction I had from the coach was a "well done" at the end)

Prior to my last Dublin marathon I spent the summer doing Tuesday track sessions that for the most part were either 300m or 400m repeats. One of the lads down doing them with us was a 2:16 marathon runner (he did double what we did but the same pace as the rest of us) and that certainly did him no harm.

--amadeus--

OK, my last post was a bit rushed and I didn't acknowledge Condos excellent arguments.

A while back - 18 months or more - this argument came up and at the time I had never actually been to a club session so I decided that maybe there was something to it and I'd be stupid not to at least give it a try.

So I checked the club website, got details of the weekly track session and headed along. I approached someone who loked like a coach and the conversation went like this:

A: "Hi are you XYZ club?"
Coach: "I am"
A: "Great, I've come to have a look and join in, if thats ok?"
C: "Yeah, no worries. Do you run?"
A: "Yeah, 30 - 40 miles a week in training and I race marathons"
C: "Ahhh. Do you race any shorter stuff"
A: "Well I've done a couple of 10ks..."
C, perceptibly brighter: "Very good, what kind of times"
A: "Around 38:xx"
C:" Grand so, head away over there and warm up with him" (points to 15 yr old young fella doing slow laps)

<slow laps later>

C to Me: "Right, I'm doing steeplechase with these lads, you stay here and do stretches"

<15 mins of solo stretches later>

C to me and 8 - 10 teenagers: "Right, X by 600m, aim for Y time"
C to me: "These lads are a bit younger than you but sure that's no harm, just do what you can"

<I had never done reps to time before, only to a given km pace band so had no idea but went out and ran>

C at end of every lap: "Grand / good job"

A at end of every session: Deep in conversation with the 2 quick runners who are streets ahead of teh rest of us

<several reps later>

C: "Ok, two laps at least a a warmdown"

<A does his 2 laps walks off towards coach>

C to A: "Well done, next week again, if you want to"

~~~

Now I spent my formative years being chased by teenage girls and it was very nice reliving the experience on the track. But tbh I got nothing out of the session. The two good juniors were lightyears ahead of me and the others were mostly slower so I was in a no mans land. I wasn't made fel particularly welcome or as if they were overly bothered if I came back. I was given no indication of when the adults trained. I had zero feedback on my running. If anything I felt like the slightly embarrassing uncle at the wedding who's relatives make small talk to out of politeness but everyone would be happier if he wasn't there.

So the picture painted by the pro-club lobby and my own experience of a club are very different and I am guessing that is because - as with anything - there are good clubs and bad clubs. But since the only local club is - imo - a bad club I would rather join none than join them.

Kissy Lips

ecoli wrote: »

I know it is a bit of a steep one alright however factors which cause the club to charge such a price are;

1.Brand new state of the art track with full lighting
2. Top range clubhouse

The fact that these overheads eat into any money raised. The Club try to raise alot of money through bag packs and other fund raising events in order to try and keep memberships as low as possible. Though the single membership is that much being a family orientated club our family rates are extremely competitive. In regards to our IT apect we are definitely lacking and is something that is trying to be addressed but all help is voluntary and hats of they so try their best. Hope this gives a little more insight

Thanks adding some clarity, they should post that on the website. Currently it says that your fee (120 euro) goes to AAI membership and Insurance......that's all

plodder

--amadeus-- wrote: »

So the picture painted by the pro-club lobby and my own experience of a club are very different and I am guessing that is because - as with anything - there are good clubs and bad clubs. But since the only local club is - imo - a bad club I would rather join none than join them.

Just curious Amadeus. Did you talk to some senior person in the club before going down that day? I presume there is more than one coach in it, and maybe you'd have had a better experience with someone else.

annieee

I joined a club and I only started running in August. I figured once I was able to run 5k without stopping I was good enough to join. They were really welcoming, I wasn't made to feel like I was holding anyone back. The thoughts that I might be holding people back made me try harder to be honest, I really gave it my all and felt I was improving.

(Til I busted my knees on a road run, an injury from which I'm still recovering )

I have 2 small kids and find it hard to motivate myself to get out in the dark and run once they have gone to bed. I find the set nights that the club has helps to get me off the sofa and down to the track. It's great to chat about running with other people too, instead of discussing who would win in a fight between Batman and Sandman, which I seem to do a lot with my son.

And 75 euros a year is great value compared to gym membership, which I certainly couldnt afford.

MCOS

Hi --Amadeus-- at the risk of sounding like a broken record. WLAC seems to be a decent club, pretty small but all levels of runners. There were 40-50 on the tack on Tuesday night and plenty of the members also doing the UL Rowing Club run series. Other clubs blended into the session, ULAC, LTC etc.. but I just hope that the one interaction you had as detailed above was not the nail in the coffin for you and clubs.

In fact I feel you would be quite an asset to a running club. You are not just an improved Marathoner who will hit club standard times in the next 2 years but your Menatality is well suited to coaching and driving a group. Just think about how much satisfaction you got from mentoring the virtual group for the DCM. Multiply the reaction by 10 doing that in person and meeting your prodiges from time to time. As you say when you are done chasing times you will be off on Ultra, AR adventures but I can see you dishing ou valuable advise and guidance to runners in years to come.

On that note, from the pro Club lobby I'd urge you to give it another shot sometime. I'll happily accompany you to battle the scary monsters

Blueskye

Similar experience to Amadeus. About this time last year thought about joining a club, looked online, found one near me, phoned them up, explained I was interested in half-marathon, marathon distance and would be interested in doing some speedwork. The female coach recommended that I pop down on a particular evening. I did so, and arrived to find a very small group of ladies, all very lovely, but none had run further than 10k and they only tended to run about twice a week. They were apparently taking it easy that session as a few had been sick recently, so we did a few laps of a two soccer pitches, were told to speed up for part of the circuit and then slow down again, we did so for about 30 mins and that was it. I wasn't exactly inspired.

I went back on two other occasions, to see if more runners had turned up, to see if maybe there were some people at a similar stage to me but found the standard was even lower, with only me running full laps and the rest of the ladies running around one pitch. I got no feedback on my running and the format was the same for the three occasions I went. No thanks, not for me.

I think the idea of club running is great, but it has to fit in with your lifestyle, and it needs to meet your needs and sometimes that's not possible. I like that I can put on my runners and go for a run at any time of the day depending on how my day is going.

Racing Flat

baza1976 wrote: »

I asked here on this site if I joined Boards AC could I do these cc and rr in the Limerick/tipp Clare areas (club races) and I was told that in all likely hood NO!! Something about club need ing to be from near that area!!???!!

Thats why I didn't join.

Is that right??? as in the club needs to be from the area for most races???

baza1976 wrote: »

So can I or can I not run in XC races in munster if I'm a member of boards??

aburke wrote: »

From an official point of view, as I understand it:
To take part in, and be eligible for prizes, a county race, or regional race,
then you have to be a member of a club from that county.
Boards AC is a club registered in Dublin, AFAIK.

For a club to be a club it has to fall under the allocation of a County Board. For most clubs based around an area, well they'll typically join the county board where that area resides. boards AC would have had to make a decision I imagine on which county board to join and they picked Dublin (being a virtual club, this is probably a pity to have to be tied down to 1 county, but Dublin was probably the most democratic choice, although maybe if they had gone for a smaller county, county medals might have been in the offing...anyone know the standard of the Longford county champs???). For that reason, as a team boards ac can only take part in Dublin Champs at County level and Leinster at regional level.

AFAIK individual boards ac members could race in Dublin champs or the champs of the county where they were born, but only one of the two in any one year. They could win an individual medal in either. They could also represent either Dublin or the county of their birth at Inter-Counties. However, if they ran for Dublin one year and wanted to run for another county the next year they would have to get a county to county transfer.

Racing Flat

One pro to joining a club IMO is that it makes you more competitive.

I've mentioned on here before that doing a marathon and then taking a long auld break before starting again at the same level as you were at the start of the previous marathon training regime possibly explains small improvements from time to time. Keeping the momentum going rather than stopping and starting might lead to greater improvements. Now you don't need a club for this, just self-discipline, but when in a club and trainign with 5 or 6 fellows the same level, you know that if you take 2 months off they'll be a good bit ahead when you come back, so might be more likely to keep going.

Many people say they like running alone and therefore don't join a club, yet join boards ac! You can see already boards ac is starting to flourish and I don't think it's be long before they'll be operating more or less like other clubs - sessions twice a week, focusing on certain races etc. I think there's a slight irony (albeit positive) that boards ac came about for people who don't want to be in a real club, yet that's what it now is!

shels4ever

Racing Flat wrote: »

I think there's a slight irony (albeit positive) that boards ac came about for people who don't want to be in a real club, yet that's what it now is!

Yep I was thinking this myself a while ago, The only thing about this is that come Team selection it can't be based on who shows up for training sessions. But reason why Boards won't be run like a so called normal club... Just need to find a portable running track that we can set upi around the country

shels4ever

aburke wrote: »

Branched from here
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=62983645

Both in the real world, and here on Boards.ie, there are heaps of people who are regular runners, but not members of an athletic club.
I can't think of another sport, where such a significant proportion of active participants in the sport, and not affiliated to any club.

Apart from the obvious...
"Because I don't NEED to be a member of a club to run"
why not?

And if it is that obvious, then mabe just say that too.

Why not join a club...

1. Club runners are fast
2. Club runners are skinny
3. Club runner have their set training and wont help out slow people.
4. Running isnt a sport i just do it to keep the weight down.
5. I'm scared to be left on training runs...

Just a few things that go through people minds, true or untrue? I tried to join a Tri club and was totally put of the spot as I was so unfit , with a crap bike and tried to go on a group cycle was left after 4 miles and only one person came back(Thanks Tunney), managed to get over this and showd up for a second week, was left again got lost and managed to get back to my car tired wrecked and pissed off.

Not sure if this happens with new people in running clubs I hope it doesnt.

showry

I'm a member of West Waterford AC and at 25 euro I think it's great value. There's support for everyone from novice marathoners to elite runners. There's leagues all year round and a great sense of camaraderie at races.

ecoli

Okay going to give my own thoughts on this matter because there seems to be alot of myths surrounding this (taken from experiences with my own club so cant account for all but interacting with different people from different clubs i got same general thoughts)

1. Im not fast enough to be a club runner
Many clubs welcome runners of all levels. In my club the gauge your level at the beginning and try to find a suitable level group whihc you would be able to maintain training with. One example of this is many clubs have the Fit 4 Life in which many athletes have only took up running and have goals of Mini Marathon etc and use this as a stepping stone and go on to develop

2. i cant commit to the rigid training schedules
Most clubs wont go hunting you down for not attending training. The idea behond many clubs is to provide the option of groups in which to work with and help motivate you easier than trying to complete sessions on your own. I myself am subject to college and working nights to fund it and as a result i can make training times so most of my training is done of my own accord. I would be luck to make an appearance every once in 2 or three weeks at best

3. Im a marathon runner, clubs try to discourage this and sessions wouldnt fit with my schedule

Many clubs have designated marathon groups of all levels from 1st time runners to sub three groups. There are some boards members here who would be part of these groups and could confirm this.

4. Why pay when i can do it for free

Despite the idea of the one size fits all training schedules many coaches individually tweak a runners session so while few in a group may be doing similar training they can be slightly tweaked to suit the athletes needs. The fact that there are coaches available can be used to help not just on training theories but also racing tactics etc. One of the coaches in my club despite i was never trained under him has provided me with useful tips on racing to how to tackle hills optimally and ideas on tapering which i have taken to this day. The other aspect is the chance to if you want there are races exclusively available to club athletes and the idea of chalenging for team titles is nice thought especially for people who wouldnt consider themselves medal contenders individualy can be rewarded for even completing the rac coming maybe 30th in their age group. I know a guy who was running years just for fun as a more social and recreational runner. He battled hard at his own race with no expectatons. BY chance one of the usually scorers on the team pulled up injured and his positioning counted. The team got third and he recieved his first ever medal in athletics he was delighted.

Hopefully this gives you some insight into club runningas i would recommend it to anyone

asimonov

Its seems to be one of those topics where people are entrenched in their beliefs on either side of the discussion.

Maybe its an opportunity for a boards experiment where two or three committed non-clubbers of various standards join a (non-virtual) club for a year and track how they get on.

Racing Flat

asimonov wrote: »

Maybe its an opportunity for a boards experiment where two or three committed non-clubbers of various standards join a (non-virtual) club for a year and track how they get on.

2 fellows who joined our club had done 13 and 10 marathons, all in the 3.03-3.15 range over a period of 5-10years. Less than a year after joining a club, one ran 2.56 and the other 2.58. I don't think it was due to coaching, more the fact that training with fellows and keeping up with them who were 2 minutes ahead of them in 10k races made them realise that they should also be with them in races, so they probably had more belief, tried harder in races and possibly trained harder when with the club than when on their own (although the latter could also be abused). Both wished they'd joined a club years earlier.

But there may well be many more out there whose performances dropped after joining a club!

A personal observation is that many of the people on here who are not in clubs set targets too low - happy with a 39min 10k when they should be doing 37.

RoyMcC

Racing Flat wrote: »

A personal observation is that many of the people on here who are not in clubs set targets too low - happy with a 39min 10k when they should be doing 37.

Yes indeed RF, and that's a point that Running Bing often makes. I guess that I - amongst others, am less motivated to improve my times as to continue to enjoy running as a participant rather than as a contender.

Any competitive animals on these boards would undoubtedly improve by embracing club life. It's just not for me.

Rebel Exile

Hello all. New on here and looking for a bit of info on running clubs in Kildare, particularly in the Celbridge area. Have done a few 5 milers and 10k's - in years past a few Ballycotton's as well (though none of them very quickly!). Can't commit to definite times every week as work unpredictable hours, but thinking if there was a flexible club on my doorstep, then I'd have a look. End result would be a return to Ballycotton in March and optimistically the Cork Marathon next June (is that worth doing by the way - good atmosphere etc?).
Apologies if there are club links elsewhere on the site, but as mentioned a new poster and haven't really found my way around yet

Any help/guidance/advice much appreciated.

misty floyd

Rebel Exile wrote: »

Hello all. New on here and looking for a bit of info on running clubs in Kildare, particularly in the Celbridge area. Have done a few 5 milers and 10k's - in years past a few Ballycotton's as well (though none of them very quickly!). Can't commit to definite times every week as work unpredictable hours, but thinking if there was a flexible club on my doorstep, then I'd have a look. End result would be a return to Ballycotton in March and optimistically the Cork Marathon next June (is that worth doing by the way - good atmosphere etc?).
Apologies if there are club links elsewhere on the site, but as mentioned a new poster and haven't really found my way around yet

Any help/guidance/advice much appreciated.

Very lazy tut tut ,
Celbridge athletic club
There is also a club in Leixlip.
Donadea running club.
Go to the main page and search for 'marathon reviews'.
No doubt I'll pass you around the streets of Celbridge. Best of luck.

jb-ski

Rebel Exile wrote: »

Any help/guidance/advice much appreciated.

Le Cheile in Leixlip has a very informal, relaxed Meet & Train session
on Wednesday's at 8pm, behind Leixlip Amenities Centre.

it's just up and running since July and has a good mix of abilities (from Sub 3 Marathoners to people aspiring to first 5K). Beginners are especially welcome!

it would be well worth dropping by some evening, it's a very friendly bunch and there's always some good advice/tips given from the coachs.

I (and Mrs Jb) have been going since summer and find it's helped us loads.

Cashel

Hi all,

I've been running for over a year and just completed he Dublin Marathon, injury and all , and after a few weeks break want to now get back into things. While I like training on my own and would prefer to do most of my training this way I'd like to join a club to try and incorporate more interval and session work into my training. I'd also like guidance from someone on a training programme. I'm based in the Rialto area and wondered whether anyone could recommend a club nearby to join?

Thanks in advance

RoyMcC

Cashel wrote: »

Hi all,

I've been running for over a year and just completed he Dublin Marathon, injury and all , and after a few weeks break want to now get back into things. While I like training on my own and would prefer to do most of my training this way I'd like to join a club to try and incorporate more interval and session work into my training. I'd also like guidance from someone on a training programme. I'm based in the Rialto area and wondered whether anyone could recommend a club nearby to join?

Thanks in advance

Liffey Valley come very well recommended, down by the Memorial Gardens.

W.B. Yeats

My tuppence worth; I started running this year and am finding it very difficult to keep going. I really want to join a club but any of the clubs that I've contacted have set training times of 7pm on Tues and Thurs when I'm only on my way home from work. I can't understand why they train so early in the evening when people today have such large distances to commute. (my daily commute is 2.5-3hrs). Its fine to say that clubs have people that run at different times but I imagine they are likely to be the serious runners that would drop me in a 100m so no point in joining them to be left behind.

I also feel that I'm unfit/slow/sh1te and fear being completely embarrassed by turning up.

That said, I'm a social animal so see the advantages in having a group of people to run with and to have the banter with

Cashel

RoyMcC wrote: »

Liffey Valley come very well recommended, down by the Memorial Gardens.

Many thanks for that Roy, I'll have a look. I'm hoping some club nearby has a flood lit track for training during those winter evenings ahead of us!

How Strange

Cashel wrote: »

Many thanks for that Roy, I'll have a look. I'm hoping some club nearby has a flood lit track for training during those winter evenings ahead of us!

Donore Harriers in Chapelizod have a flood lit track.

ultraman1

jb-ski wrote: »

Le Cheile in Leixlip has a very informal, relaxed Meet & Train session
on Wednesday's at 8pm, behind Leixlip Amenities Centre.

it's just up and running since July and has a good mix of abilities (from Sub 3 Marathoners to people aspiring to first 5K). Beginners are especially welcome!

it would be well worth dropping by some evening, it's a very friendly bunch and there's always some good advice/tips given from the coachs.

I (and Mrs Jb) have been going since summer and find it's helped us loads.

+1
or if donadea suits you pm me

PVincent

Great debate lads...very interesting to see the different views on clubs...

Can I just throw in something to shed some real hard core info on the debate ...

I work in a large corporate firm and we have always had a good number of casual ( maybe 15 at best) but committed runners , so lunchtime runs, BHAA races , the very odd marathon here & there , the addidas series ...all featured on the agenda.. Last January we decided with the recession in full bloom , we needed a morale boosting project for the company ..hence we launched a challenge to people to run the Chicago Marathon ...Huge interest abounded ...over 55 people got involved and eventually 35 ran the 26.2 miles on 11/10/09 ...everyone finished , almost all in respectable times ...most were novice or new runners .

The point to this group was that we trained and worked together to get to tha start line , just as any real running club would do . We became a close knit group , backing each other up on tough days, advising each other on problems , talking about sessions good and bad, just generally becoming committed athletes over the 9 months we spent training.

Now what has happened in reality is that we have converted a massive amount of staff in our organisation to the sport of running because of the feel good factor attaching to the project and the success of it . We have now a large number of them in running clubs ( most of them with me in Knocklyon Joggers as we call ourselves ,part of Bros Pearse A.C. ). We even helped out at the Dublin Marathon at the Spar Lunch Box area . We are about to sort out memberships for them all into the BHAA

I dont believe any of this true committment to the sport would have come to these people unless they were involved in this club style atmosphere we created . If you asked any of these people about the project , they will tell you it was the best thing they ever did and incredibly they are all mad keen to do another one . ( we will do a group half this year and revist a big city marathon in 2011 as organising is time consuming )

In Knocklyon Joggers we are attempting to create that same buzz and real team atmosphere . We have a number of experienced runners to call on for advice , we have a range of standards that ensures everyone is catered for and does not feel left out or left behind , we try to make your running session enjoyable and rewarding and you would not regret joining us in Knocklyon every Tues /thurs at 7.00pm in St Colmcilles Community School

I accept that there will always be athletes who dont want the hassle of running with others , we all like a run on our own sometimes , but with the right club , the right atmosphere, the right attitude, a running club can be the makings of your running . And forget that ' must' turn up for a session . Unless you are an elite athlete in a club set on Team medals , there is no compulsion to making every session ...

Running for the 95% is about enjoying your sport . I truly believe that most will find it is more enjoyable in a relaxed club atmosphere, that can get the best out of you at times , purely because you are relaxed and enjoying it ...( epscially in Knocklyon Joggers )

umpire bat

Refreshing views and more importantly actions from PVincent. Well Done. Great attitude.

metamorphosis

Interesting thread. Iv been to only ever a track session in UL. The time i did i introduced myself to the coach and he talked to me about what i wanted and how fast i was and put me with a group of my standard. I found the session great and the people around were friendly. I liked it a lot. Work has stopped me going back but luckily for me, that issue is sorted and im going back.

For too long (before i even started running) i trained for no purpose and my life was still defined by training i did on a daily basis even though there was no goal. I feel the track sessions will help me all around with goals that i have now and at the same time get to know other people that have the same goals as you. It's a pity i have only come to realise this very recently!!