Why not join a club?

Stupid_Private

Kissy Lips wrote: »

Cost would prevent me joining e.g. Why does Tallaght AC charge 120 euro per year but Eagle AC charge 40 euro per year? I have mailed Tallaght AC about this but did not get a response.

I brought the cost one up on here before - my running club in London was £25 a year compared with the €100+ you have to pay in Dublin. The reasons I was given was that the UK clubs received better grants. I didn't realise that Cork clubs also got these grants!!

spurscormac

Kissy Lips wrote: »

Cost would prevent me joining e.g. Why does Tallaght AC charge 120 euro per year but Eagle AC charge 40 euro per year? I have mailed Tallaght AC about this but did not get a response.

It could be for all manner of reasons.

Some clubs may charge a lower joining fee, but then you have to pay for club singlet, extra charge to those who use track sessions to cover the rental cost, etc etc.
Some may charge juveniles for bus hire to races, others may cover it with club money.

Thats just a quick guess of a few off the top of my head.

As to the argument on joining a club or not - I'm definitely in the pro-join group. Ran on my own for a couple of years, but only sporadically for a few months in the summer.
Joined this year and have really seen the benefits of group sessions as a motivator to get out on a rainy night and improvements in my times.

**Disclaimer - my suggestions above are simply guesses as to why a certain price may be set. I am not a committee member of any club and don't really know how and why each club decides on their specific annual subscription level.

donothoponpop

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Social: There is a great appeal in meeting other runners, talking about training and swapping ideas as well as just talking crap. But isn't that what this place is for?

So why don't you join Boards AC? Genuine question;)

Condo131

Phew!! You Do have strong feelings on this!

However I beg to differ. To put it context, I am a Level 1 (waiting on assessment for Level 2) AAI Coach. I'm a club Chairman and have been running for 25 years, with, I'm guessing, anything between 30 and 50 races a year, so 800 to 1600 races in total.

--amadeus-- wrote: »

With the greatest respect I am not going to advance from where I am currently with some generic, off the shelf, one size fits all basic coaching.

Any qualified coach is unlikely to be doing 'one size fits all' program. If you find that your coach is doing just that, you need to find a new coach.

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Now if a qualified coach put the time and effort into one to one coaching with tailored and personalized plans that would be different. .

If you want into one to one coaching, you'll either have to be very, very good, or get your own personal coach. What I think you're looking for is a coach that isn't going to just ignore you, but interact and 'tinker' with the schedule for you and give recommendations and feedback specifically for you..

--amadeus-- wrote: »

coaches rightly will be concentrating personal coaching on the top guys..

We can't all coach the top people - some of us do coach the less talented (majority. I take a beginners + improvers group on Mondays and on Tuesdays & Thursdays take two groups, one mid-pack and the others would be striving to get into mid-pack. Our head coach takes three groups ranging from semi-elites to mid-pack.

--amadeus-- wrote: »

So I don't see how or where I would gain from club coaching..

Maybe you have a good feel for coaching yourself and know your strengths and weaknesses and how to work on them. You probably do, but a surprising number of runners, even very good ones, admit to not having the slightest idea of how to formualte a training program for themselves, how to build races into their targets and seasonality.

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Races:
I'll sacrifice warm up races in a marathon training cycle rather than race poorly or at the wrong time. .

See previous para. Well done on that. I find the VAST majority of runners just do not get this point - You CANNOT enter every race going, sacrificing a training regime, and expect continuous improvement - you'll probably even go backward, if race them all.

--amadeus-- wrote: »

no-one in a club will put a gun to your head to make you attend a given event there will be peer pressure and I'm just not interested..

Horses for courses. We'll agree to differ.

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Group Training Sessions: you can plan runs with other club members but the assumption i that you'll find someone doing the same program as you for teh same race as you to the same target as you. Because if not then you are compromising..

For key races, most clubs have groups targeting the same type race in the same time period. I reckon that the only people in my club that have problems with schedules like this are the ultra-distance bods.

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Social: There is a great appeal in meeting other runners, talking about training and swapping ideas as well as just talking crap. But isn't that what this place is for?.

Ah but what about the banter and slagging? The lead time here is too long. You also get great tips on training, injuries, gear, away-trips, discounts, health, news etc.

--amadeus-- wrote: »

And having run 6 non-marathon Irish races in 4 years I'm not exactly abusing the system..

Abusing the system?. IMHO, the ONLY ones who abuse the system are those who run in races without paying an entry fee.

--amadeus-- wrote: »

It offers minimal rewards and restricts and ties me down. .

Rewards: team medals, prizes etc. These give a reward to athletes who might not otherwise get anything, e.g. last year one of our back-markers got a County Senior XC Team Gold medal - I reckon I'll NEVER have one of those!

Wrt restriction and tying down. Training and racing are both voluntary. You don't have to follow either.

--amadeus-- wrote: »

And frankly there is an occasional (not from aburke I'll add!) attitude that if you aren't in a club that you are somehow gaming the system.

I can't say that I've noticed that but I'd be surprised if many club/officials had that (imho) poor attitude to non-club runners

--amadeus-- wrote: »

....or are a lesser runner... .

Hats off to ANYONE who takes the time to exercise (and, indirectly, look after their health

--amadeus-- wrote: »

....or are missing out or whatever..

Definitely! But we'll agree to differ


One common point coming through most of the responses on this thread, and also the most common response I get when approaching people about joing our club, is "I wouldn't be good enough!", or words to that effect.

If YOU (not you Amadeus - but most of the others) are of that opinion, take the results of one, or more, of the races you've run in and look at the results for other club runners in it. You'll find loads of runners around and behind you. Not good enough - I doubt if that applies to most. And to those that it might apply to, I say " Rome wasn't built in a day"

OK some clubs ARE elitist, but you'll spot them from the results - they'll be top heavy, with few down the field runners.

thirtyfoot

If you don’t want to join a club because you feel you may be too slow, don’t worry, make the jump and most clubs will be very accommodating and you won’t regret it, many clubs have a Fit4Life program which is your friend. Running is a sport for life in many ways.

If you don’t want to join due to personal circumstances/time etc that’s fair enough but athletic clubs are very loose and you can be a member and just train when you want, so maybe just see would it work out from that perspective and give it a go.

If you don’t want to join a club because you know it all and think you'll be wasting your time and will learn nothing then thats a different kettle of fish.

The first two reasons I can fully understand, the third one, now that’s bollix.

Paul Tergat spoke in Dublin this year about the secret behind Kenyan success. Aside from the natural ability which is obvious, he said they all train together as a group (or club). Its the way forward no doubt. Kenyans from when they start running are never in the comfort zone.

Condo131

Kissy Lips wrote: »

Cost would prevent me joining e.g. Why does Tallaght AC charge 120 euro per year but Eagle AC charge 40 euro per year? I have mailed Tallaght AC about this but did not get a response.

I've no idea what Tallaght AC's overheads are, e.g. if they have a clubhouse or what other (expensive) facilities they might have, so can't comment one way or another on other clubs.

Eagle AC isn't in the business of making money and doesn't have a clubhouse. Expenses are minimal and mainly consist of AAI registrations and Championship entry fees. The biggest single expenses is the hire of the CIT track for two nights a week. Eagle has over 100 adult members, so expenses are spread a long way. The club used to have a fund-raising draw :eek::eek: - everyone hates selling (including me). The only grant Eagle gets is about €500 a year from the local council.

bourne99

I do appreciate that clubs/coaches know a lot more about running than I do as - it's what they do. I have no doubt that if I joined a club, I would become a better runner.

I suppose I just like to run for myself though - as someone else said - it's nice to see a results sheet when just above and below your name everyone else belongs to a club except you. Last year I was finally hitting top-20 placings and with each race I was finding myself up against people with fancy singlets... when I'd be wearing Dunnes Stores finest. Again, I take some pleasure from that, even if those I'm running with are totally unaware of it!

Regarding what Stupid_Private said, in the 10 or so races I did in 07/08, only once did someone try and actively get me to join their club, and that was a Raheny Shamrocks guy at the end of the docklands run - which just happened to be my best run. Even if he was saying it to everyone, it was still nice to get the offer. I figured it was a constant thing that clubs would try and seek new members?

When it comes down to it though, I won't work for anyone but myself, so I'm not going to run for anyone but myself either - even if it's just a social thing.

But I do appreciate clubs.

How Strange

I'm in the pro-club camp.

I think I'm fairly representative of an average runner; I don't see a sub 3.30 marathon in my future although I may suprise myself.
I started running two years ago, Nov 07. I was as slow as a wet week in January but entered a few races, got more confident and decided to train for DCM 08. I finished in 4.55 or something like that. I was probably doing 40-45 miles training per week for DCM so I had stamina but no speed

I joined a club in Feb 09 with a view to improving my pace. I made some small improvements over a few months but I was always the last one in the group runs and I really thought I'd give the club thing a miss. I got talking to one of the senior runners one night and he volunteered to give me some coaching tips for DCM 09.

I started doing fartlekking and speed work each week and it was like someone waved a magic wand. My pace improved substantially, my race times were improving and I was most definitely not last anymore.

I think if you're the type of runner who can train yourself to keep improving and you enjoy running solo then a club isn't for you. However, if like me you get stuck in a rut and can't see any progression then a club is brilliant. You get coaching, do weekly speed work and hill sessions and group runs all of which contribute to improving stamina and pace. The conraderie and the social aspect is also great.

I did a XC race last weekend and ran a 7.40min/mile which for me is amazing considering I was running 9 min/miles this time last year.

TheRoadRunner

Tingle wrote: »

If you don’t want to join a club because you know it all and think you'll be wasting your time and will learn nothing then thats a different kettle of fish.

That's the message I got from Amadeus' post. Don't know if it was meant or not !

baza1976

donothoponpop wrote: »

So why don't you join Boards AC? Genuine question;)

Hi,

I know that was aimed at Amadeus.

I'd like to say why I haven't joined Boards AC.
I'd liek to do some cross country and more road races etc so I asked here on this site if I joined Boards AC could I do these cc and rr in the Limerick/tipp Clare areas (club races) and I was told that in all likely hood NO!! Something about club need ing to be from near that area!!???!!

Thats why I didn't join.

Is that right??? as in the club needs to be from the area for most races???

Woddle

baza1976 wrote: »

Hi,

I know that was aimed at Amadeus.

I'd like to say why I haven't joined Boards AC.
I'd liek to do some cross country and more road races etc so I asked here on this site if I joined Boards AC could I do these cc and rr in the Limerick/tipp Clare areas and I was told that in all likely hood NO!! Something about club need ing to be from near that area!!???!!

Thats why I didn't join.

Is that right??? as in the club needs to be from the area for most races???

Did you get that advice here?
At the recent Dublin seniors xc there was a bit of a debate over Maria McCambridge winning the womens, some felt she wasn't entitled to run :rolleyes: and she was denied her medal. Since then I believe the decision was changed and she will be awarded the medal, as you are entitled to run in the county of your birth/live although she runs for a club outside of Dublin.
My thought was that you can run for the county of your club or the county of your birth/reside but not both.

BeepBeep67

Stupid_Private wrote: »

I brought the cost one up on here before - my running club in London was £25 a year compared with the €100+ you have to pay in Dublin. The reasons I was given was that the UK clubs received better grants. I didn't realise that Cork clubs also got these grants!!

€55 for me - very happy with that, minor insurance cover, subsidized gear, Leinster & National race fees, use of the Charlesland track, use of changing facility and showers on Thursday nights in the Winter, good value for me.

BeepBeep67

Woddle wrote: »

Did you get that advice here?
At the recent Dublin seniors xc there was a bit of a debate over Maria McCambridge winning the womens, some felt she wasn't entitled to run :rolleyes: and she was denied her medal. Since then I believe the decision was changed and she will be awarded the medal, as you are entitled to run in the county of your birth/live although she runs for a club outside of Dublin.
My thought was that you can run for the county of your club or the county of your birth/reside but not both.

My understanding is the same and you need to formally transfer from club to club or county to county and have that ratified at a county board meeting.

robinph

baza1976 wrote: »

Hi,

I know that was aimed at Amadeus.

I'd like to say why I haven't joined Boards AC.
I'd liek to do some cross country and more road races etc so I asked here on this site if I joined Boards AC could I do these cc and rr in the Limerick/tipp Clare areas (club races) and I was told that in all likely hood NO!! Something about club need ing to be from near that area!!???!!

Thats why I didn't join.

Is that right??? as in the club needs to be from the area for most races???

I'd have thought that would only be relevant for county/ province/ national championships?

Nothing to stop people from any club running for that club in any other race. We have had Boards AC taking part in events all over Ireland and the BAC singlet has made appearances in marathons in Europe and the world already if we can count my racing in New Zealand as well.

baza1976

Woddle wrote: »

Did you get that advice here?

Yes I did get it here. Not sure if it was the munster XC or Limerick XC champs that were on there in the last month or 2 and I asked here 1st: could I turn up and run it. I was told no and 2nd: I asked if I joined boards could I turn up and I was told that I might not, as you might need to be a memeber of a club in the vicinity and that it might be the same for other XC races in around munster??!!??!! I can remember the post(s) word for word but if you do a serch of my posts you'll find it.


At the recent Dublin seniors xc there was a bit of a debate over Maria McCambridge winning the womens, some felt she wasn't entitled to run :rolleyes: and she was denied her medal. Since then I believe the decision was changed and she will be awarded the medal, as you are entitled to run in the county of your birth/live although she runs for a club outside of Dublin.
My thought was that you can run for the county of your club or the county of your birth/reside but not both.

So can I or can I not run in XC races in munster if I'm a member of boards??

robinph

Can you run in XC races in Munster?

Yes.

Can you run in the Munster championships?

Unlikely, as I believe Boards AC happens to be registered in Dublin.

aburke

baza1976 wrote: »

So can I or can I not run in XC races in munster if I'm a member of boards??

I think I was the one who gave the advice.

From an official point of view, as I understand it:
To take part in, and be eligible for prizes, a county race, or regional race,
then you have to be a member of a club from that county.
Boards AC is a club registered in Dublin, AFAIK.

That applies to official AAI championship races only, not to open road races.

But I also said, that at pretty much all of these events, you will be allowed to take part as a guest, if you're affiliated to a club outside that area. You wouldn't be eligible for prizes though.

At Galway level, we often have guests from Mayo, Clare and midlands clubs at our XC events. No problem at all.

shels4ever

baza1976 wrote: »

So can I or can I not run in XC races in munster if I'm a member of boards??

Actually I think you can run the county CC but maybe not the regional? but would need to check this out furhter, I know for the Dublin XC if your a member of a club outside dublin you can compete in your county of births CC but can only run in one per year.
Maybe someone knows the full rules on this.

meathcountysec

baza1976 wrote: »

So can I or can I not run in XC races in munster if I'm a member of boards??

To be definitive, maybe;)

To run in county xc championships races the relevant county board would have to allow guests take part.

To run in Munster xc championships the Munster Council would have to allow guests to take part.

Anyone can run in open xc races

meathcountysec

shels4ever wrote: »

the full rules

Now there's a can of worms waiting to be opened......

--amadeus--

Tingle wrote: »

If you don’t want to join a club because you know it all and think you'll be wasting your time and will learn nothing then thats a different kettle of fish.

The first two reasons I can fully understand, the third one, now that’s bollix.

But I *do* know it all!

Being serious I don't think that anyone knows everything and I'll hold my hand up and admit I have huge amounts to learn. I'll pick anyone's brains given half a chance.

But I don't see how I will progress as a marathon runner by doing 600m reps with the juniors (which is what I was sent off to do the only time I attended a club session, pretty the sum total of interaction I had from the coach was a "well done" at the end)

Some people simply do not want to run with a group. I don't. And since the whole central point of a running club is to run with a group it seems pretty pointless joining one if you don't like it.

DP - no really good reason for not joining BAC, apart from my irrational anti-club bias

ecoli

Kissy Lips wrote: »

Cost would prevent me joining e.g. Why does Tallaght AC charge 120 euro per year but Eagle AC charge 40 euro per year? I have mailed Tallaght AC about this but did not get a response.

I know it is a bit of a steep one alright however factors which cause the club to charge such a price are;

1.Brand new state of the art track with full lighting
2. Top range clubhouse

The fact that these overheads eat into any money raised. The Club try to raise alot of money through bag packs and other fund raising events in order to try and keep memberships as low as possible. Though the single membership is that much being a family orientated club our family rates are extremely competitive. In regards to our IT apect we are definitely lacking and is something that is trying to be addressed but all help is voluntary and hats of they so try their best. Hope this gives a little more insight

dna_leri

meathcountysec wrote: »

To be definitive, maybe;)

To run in county xc championships races the relevant county board would have to allow guests take part.

To run in Munster xc championships the Munster Council would have to allow guests to take part.

Anyone can run in open xc races

Maybe this is why some people do not join a club - too much unwanted administration and complication and they want to keep running simple, the way it should be. Its a pity AAI is so structured in its county, provincial setup, (but I undestand why this is so) which makes it difficult for a diverse club such as Boards to fit in.

From my point of view, I get very little from my club since my work-life schedule usually gets in the way, so I mostly end up training on my own. However for a very nominal fee, I do get the opportunity to compete in club/AAI competitions and occasionally get to participate in club track sessions at a discounted rate.

However if you are an independent-minded person who does not need the spur provided by other runners to keep to a training schedule or push harder in a session, then there probably is very little benefit of joining other than the social one that you get here.

Stupid_Private

--amadeus-- wrote: »

But I don't see how I will progress as a marathon runner by doing 600m reps with the juniors (which is what I was sent off to do the only time I attended a club session, pretty the sum total of interaction I had from the coach was a "well done" at the end)

Prior to my last Dublin marathon I spent the summer doing Tuesday track sessions that for the most part were either 300m or 400m repeats. One of the lads down doing them with us was a 2:16 marathon runner (he did double what we did but the same pace as the rest of us) and that certainly did him no harm.

--amadeus--

OK, my last post was a bit rushed and I didn't acknowledge Condos excellent arguments.

A while back - 18 months or more - this argument came up and at the time I had never actually been to a club session so I decided that maybe there was something to it and I'd be stupid not to at least give it a try.

So I checked the club website, got details of the weekly track session and headed along. I approached someone who loked like a coach and the conversation went like this:

A: "Hi are you XYZ club?"
Coach: "I am"
A: "Great, I've come to have a look and join in, if thats ok?"
C: "Yeah, no worries. Do you run?"
A: "Yeah, 30 - 40 miles a week in training and I race marathons"
C: "Ahhh. Do you race any shorter stuff"
A: "Well I've done a couple of 10ks..."
C, perceptibly brighter: "Very good, what kind of times"
A: "Around 38:xx"
C:" Grand so, head away over there and warm up with him" (points to 15 yr old young fella doing slow laps)

<slow laps later>

C to Me: "Right, I'm doing steeplechase with these lads, you stay here and do stretches"

<15 mins of solo stretches later>

C to me and 8 - 10 teenagers: "Right, X by 600m, aim for Y time"
C to me: "These lads are a bit younger than you but sure that's no harm, just do what you can"

<I had never done reps to time before, only to a given km pace band so had no idea but went out and ran>

C at end of every lap: "Grand / good job"

A at end of every session: Deep in conversation with the 2 quick runners who are streets ahead of teh rest of us

<several reps later>

C: "Ok, two laps at least a a warmdown"

<A does his 2 laps walks off towards coach>

C to A: "Well done, next week again, if you want to"

~~~

Now I spent my formative years being chased by teenage girls and it was very nice reliving the experience on the track. But tbh I got nothing out of the session. The two good juniors were lightyears ahead of me and the others were mostly slower so I was in a no mans land. I wasn't made fel particularly welcome or as if they were overly bothered if I came back. I was given no indication of when the adults trained. I had zero feedback on my running. If anything I felt like the slightly embarrassing uncle at the wedding who's relatives make small talk to out of politeness but everyone would be happier if he wasn't there.

So the picture painted by the pro-club lobby and my own experience of a club are very different and I am guessing that is because - as with anything - there are good clubs and bad clubs. But since the only local club is - imo - a bad club I would rather join none than join them.

Kissy Lips

ecoli wrote: »

I know it is a bit of a steep one alright however factors which cause the club to charge such a price are;

1.Brand new state of the art track with full lighting
2. Top range clubhouse

The fact that these overheads eat into any money raised. The Club try to raise alot of money through bag packs and other fund raising events in order to try and keep memberships as low as possible. Though the single membership is that much being a family orientated club our family rates are extremely competitive. In regards to our IT apect we are definitely lacking and is something that is trying to be addressed but all help is voluntary and hats of they so try their best. Hope this gives a little more insight

Thanks adding some clarity, they should post that on the website. Currently it says that your fee (120 euro) goes to AAI membership and Insurance......that's all

plodder

--amadeus-- wrote: »

So the picture painted by the pro-club lobby and my own experience of a club are very different and I am guessing that is because - as with anything - there are good clubs and bad clubs. But since the only local club is - imo - a bad club I would rather join none than join them.

Just curious Amadeus. Did you talk to some senior person in the club before going down that day? I presume there is more than one coach in it, and maybe you'd have had a better experience with someone else.

annieee

I joined a club and I only started running in August. I figured once I was able to run 5k without stopping I was good enough to join. They were really welcoming, I wasn't made to feel like I was holding anyone back. The thoughts that I might be holding people back made me try harder to be honest, I really gave it my all and felt I was improving.

(Til I busted my knees on a road run, an injury from which I'm still recovering )

I have 2 small kids and find it hard to motivate myself to get out in the dark and run once they have gone to bed. I find the set nights that the club has helps to get me off the sofa and down to the track. It's great to chat about running with other people too, instead of discussing who would win in a fight between Batman and Sandman, which I seem to do a lot with my son.

And 75 euros a year is great value compared to gym membership, which I certainly couldnt afford.

MCOS

Hi --Amadeus-- at the risk of sounding like a broken record. WLAC seems to be a decent club, pretty small but all levels of runners. There were 40-50 on the tack on Tuesday night and plenty of the members also doing the UL Rowing Club run series. Other clubs blended into the session, ULAC, LTC etc.. but I just hope that the one interaction you had as detailed above was not the nail in the coffin for you and clubs.

In fact I feel you would be quite an asset to a running club. You are not just an improved Marathoner who will hit club standard times in the next 2 years but your Menatality is well suited to coaching and driving a group. Just think about how much satisfaction you got from mentoring the virtual group for the DCM. Multiply the reaction by 10 doing that in person and meeting your prodiges from time to time. As you say when you are done chasing times you will be off on Ultra, AR adventures but I can see you dishing ou valuable advise and guidance to runners in years to come.

On that note, from the pro Club lobby I'd urge you to give it another shot sometime. I'll happily accompany you to battle the scary monsters

Blueskye

Similar experience to Amadeus. About this time last year thought about joining a club, looked online, found one near me, phoned them up, explained I was interested in half-marathon, marathon distance and would be interested in doing some speedwork. The female coach recommended that I pop down on a particular evening. I did so, and arrived to find a very small group of ladies, all very lovely, but none had run further than 10k and they only tended to run about twice a week. They were apparently taking it easy that session as a few had been sick recently, so we did a few laps of a two soccer pitches, were told to speed up for part of the circuit and then slow down again, we did so for about 30 mins and that was it. I wasn't exactly inspired.

I went back on two other occasions, to see if more runners had turned up, to see if maybe there were some people at a similar stage to me but found the standard was even lower, with only me running full laps and the rest of the ladies running around one pitch. I got no feedback on my running and the format was the same for the three occasions I went. No thanks, not for me.

I think the idea of club running is great, but it has to fit in with your lifestyle, and it needs to meet your needs and sometimes that's not possible. I like that I can put on my runners and go for a run at any time of the day depending on how my day is going.