Schools to close on 24th November

SwanV

Darragh29 wrote: »

Well what you are forgetting is that I've been through the whole school system, and from what I recall, there are very few teachers that are any good at what they do.

There might have been the odd lad in a class that had to stay back a year or needed remedial classes for subjects like English, but from my recollection, most lads I was in school with, had the mental capability to be taught, they were able to digest information, retain it and understand what they were being taught...

Now how it's all apparently changed since I was in school is a mystery to me. If I'm to believe the teachers, the population has been "dumbed down" an awful lot since I was in school....

I look back to my days in school and recall some of the laziest, unmotivated people I have ever seen, in teaching positions and I think that that is where the problem is...

You need to visit a school and spend at least a week observing. ffs.

Anyway since you were ia student, children with special needs have the right by law to attend mainstream education.

I dont think your memory of school seen through the eyes of a teenager is exactly hard hitting evidence. Dont talk about what you don't know.

Are you even a parent?

implausible

sonic.trip wrote: »

Quote From Today's Six One News:

Brian Dobson: "160,000 people have lost their jobs in the last year, And how many of your members have lost jobs"?...

Answer from that teachers union clown.......... A big fat what????......0

Clown is right! Who was he? INTO, TUI or ASTI.

The fact is, he's wrong. Every school in the country has lost teachers with the cutbacks, so I don't know what planet he's on....unless he's representing the senior civil servants in the DES:rolleyes:

sonic.trip

Scofflaw wrote: »

Out of how many teachers is that, exactly?

CSO 2008 numbers for those employed in edution is 146,000 so based on last years figures, 800 losses out of 146k = 0.00548%

whats the unemployement rate at the moment .......10%+

Scofflaw

sonic.trip wrote: »

CSO 2008 numbers for those employed in edution is 146,000 so based on last years figures, 800 losses out of 146k = 0.0548%

whats the unemployement rate at the moment .......10%+

Pretty brutal in the teaching world, so...

cordially,
Scofflaw

sonic.trip

deemark wrote: »

Clown is right! Who was he? INTO, TUI or ASTI.

The fact is, he's wrong. Every school in the country has lost teachers with the cutbacks, so I don't know what planet he's on....unless he's representing the senior civil servants in the DES:rolleyes:

exactly, yet another waste of taxpayers money, hell, in college from day one it was bet into my head to always back up your numbers, shows what a state this country is in paying clowns like that 100k+ a year. . .

implausible

Darragh29 wrote: »

Well what you are forgetting is that I've been through the whole school system, and from what I recall, there are very few teachers that are any good at what they do.

There might have been the odd lad in a class that had to stay back a year or needed remedial classes for subjects like English, but from my recollection, most lads I was in school with, had the mental capability to be taught, they were able to digest information, retain it and understand what they were being taught...

Now how it's all apparently changed since I was in school is a mystery to me. If I'm to believe the teachers, the population has been "dumbed down" an awful lot since I was in school....

I look back to my days in school and recall some of the laziest, unmotivated people I have ever seen, in teaching positions and I think that that is where the problem is...

No, that type of post is where the problem is! Everyone has been through the education system, so everyone's an expert. It's hardly a coincidence that people who had a bad experience at school are on a board berating teachers as being lazy and overpaid. Personal perception is not fact.

I've been to the doctors, I don't know and wouldn't presume to judge his/her job. Why not start a Prison Officer's thread for former criminals to post on:rolleyes:

Teaching seems to be the one area where people deem themselves qualified to judge because they've been in a classroom, even if it was a decade ago when the education system was a lot different.

rebel10

Darragh29 wrote: »

Well what you are forgetting is that I've been through the whole school system, and from what I recall, there are very few teachers that are any good at what they do.

There might have been the odd lad in a class that had to stay back a year or needed remedial classes for subjects like English, but from my recollection, most lads I was in school with, had the mental capability to be taught, they were able to digest information, retain it and understand what they were being taught...

Now how it's all apparently changed since I was in school is a mystery to me. If I'm to believe the teachers, the population has been "dumbed down" an awful lot since I was in school....

I look back to my days in school and recall some of the laziest, unmotivated people I have ever seen, in teaching positions and I think that that is where the problem is...

And this is why i am teaching. I obviously recognise that people have multiple intelligences, not just the academic. It has nothing to do with being lazy, these students are often the most motivated students in the school, just because you won't see them getting A1's in their subjects, does not mean they haven't achieved. Unfortunately,i find your view of the school population having been "dumbed down", as being offensive to myself & those students who have learning difficulties and only highlights perfectly why certain people on this thread would not be suitable to teaching as much as they believe they are. The reason that you did not find as many students with learning difficulties in school, was because many of the symptoms were percieved as laziness and incompetence. Psycologists and schools have recognised various strands of autism in students, such as dyslexia(most common), dyspraxia and asbergers syndrome.
I suppose you will never realise the impact of statements like yours, but i hope my students never come across like-minded people. So many parents would be enraged to think that people viewed their children as lazy when they suffer from learning difficulties.:(

implausible

sonic.trip wrote: »

exactly, yet another waste of taxpayers money, hell in college from day one it was bet into my head to always back up your numbers, shows what a state this country is in paying clowns like that 100k+ a year. . .

I thought union members paid their salaries.

sonic.trip

deemark wrote: »

I thought union members paid their salaries.

probably subsidised or funded in some way/shape or form from the taxpayer again, who knows...

namenotavailablE

CSO 2008 numbers for those employed in education is 146,000

A discrepancy somewhere- pg 20 of the following Mc Carthy report states 92887 employed in education in 2009:

The same report on pg 13 identified a possible reduction of 6930 in staff numbers

Source: http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/pressreleases/2009/bl100vol1.pdf

rebel10

sonic.trip wrote: »

probably subsidised or funded in some way/shape or form from the taxpayer again, who knows...

No we pay them

implausible

rebel10 wrote: »

No we pay them

Thought so! Wonder can we give them a 10% paycut.

Darragh29

SwanV wrote: »

You need to visit a school and spend at least a week observing. ffs.

Anyway since you were ia student, children with special needs have the right by law to attend mainstream education.

I dont think your memory of school seen through the eyes of a teenager is exactly hard hitting evidence. Dont talk about what you don't know.

Are you even a parent?

I spent many years in the educational system of this country and I can say for certain that it is an absolute and utter disgrace. Forget for a minute what my views are, the facts bear this out, 20% of school leavers not having a proficiency in maths is a absolute disgrace, these are the facts.

Look, you teachers cannot even bring yourselves to work an evening outside of school hours for one day of the year to meet with parents, instead you stand up and tell every parent in the country that they have to take a day off work to discuss how their child is doing in school! It's 2009, the country is now in a depression, people are trying to hang onto their jobs, but you guys can't find it within yourselves to do a few hours for one night of the year without being paid for it, discomoding parents up and down the country in a beligerant display of arrogance and self importance.

Also, we have a Minister for Education who was elected by the people and is responsible for managing the system of education in this jurisdiction. Nobody elected the ICTU, the ASTI or anyone else to run the educational system. I have a huge issue with a direction coming from a teachers union instructing teachers that all parent teacher meetings must be conducted within school hours, this is offensive to any parent. It's considerably worse than offensive, it's absolutely f*cking outrageous...

Dannyboy83

deemark wrote: »

Thought so! Wonder can we give them a 10% paycut.

Only if their overpaid.

I'm not in favour of underpaid temporary teachers or clerical officers taking wage cuts.

Thats not fair.

(I'm joking so don't bite my head off)

SwanV

Parent teacher meetings are conducted outside school hours.
If it doesn't suit a parent they can always schedule a meeting for another time that does. An early morning meeting. No big deal.

I spent 14 years as a student in schools too. It didn't qualify me to talk about teaching. Four years of college does.

rebel10

deemark wrote: »

Thought so! Wonder can we give them a 10% paycut.

LoL:D Someone suggested that in my school, but was reminded that they are private sec. they have taken enough cuts.!:rolleyes:

Kensington

SwanV wrote: »

Parent teacher meetings are conducted outside school hours.
If it doesn't suit a parent they can always schedule a meeting for another time that does. An early morning meeting. No big deal.

Not in my local school, they're not (TUI).

rebel10

Darragh29 wrote: »

I spent many years in the educational system of this country and I can say for certain that it is an absolute and utter disgrace. Forget for a minute what my views are, the facts bear this out, 20% of school leavers not having a proficiency in maths is a absolute disgrace, these are the facts.

Look, you teachers cannot even bring yourselves to work an evening outside of school hours for one day of the year to meet with parents, instead you stand up and tell every parent in the country that they have to take a day off work to discuss how their child is doing in school! It's 2009, the country is now in a depression, people are trying to hang onto their jobs, but you guys can't find it within yourselves to do a few hours for one night of the year without being paid for it, discomoding parents up and down the country in a beligerant display of arrogance and self importance.

Also, we have a Minister for Education who was elected by the people and is responsible for managing the system of education in this jurisdiction. Nobody elected the ICTU, the ASTI or anyone else to run the educational system. I have a huge issue with a direction coming from a teachers union instructing teachers that all parent teacher meetings must be conducted within school hours, this is offensive to any parent. It's considerably worse than offensive, it's absolutely f*cking outrageous...

I find recent comments you have made about young people far more offensive than asking either parent to come meet us during school hours. Not all parent/teacher meetings, in recent yrs, were held out of school hours by the way, but no one complained then. Why such a problem now? If you can't make it then ask the teachers to give you a ring, i always do

Darragh29

rebel10 wrote: »

And this is why i am teaching. I obviously recognise that people have multiple intelligences, not just the academic. It has nothing to do with being lazy, these students are often the most motivated students in the school, just because you won't see them getting A1's in their subjects, does not mean they haven't achieved. Unfortunately,i find your view of the school population having been "dumbed down", as being offensive to myself & those students who have learning difficulties and only highlights perfectly why certain people on this thread would not be suitable to teaching as much as they believe they are. The reason that you did not find as many students with learning difficulties in school, was because many of the symptoms were percieved as laziness and incompetence. Psycologists and schools have recognised various strands of autism in students, such as dyslexia(most common), dyspraxia and asbergers syndrome.
I suppose you will never realise the impact of statements like yours, but i hope my students never come across like-minded people. So many parents would be enraged to think that people viewed their children as lazy when they suffer from learning difficulties.:(

Look, if I wanted to be a teacher, I'd be a teacher. I'm an innovator, I enbrace change, I'm an entrepreneur and I like what I do... I wouldn't be suited to a teaching career, taking diktats from a union and working in an environment where change is opposed and obstructed, I'd be driven mad.

Look at your post, this is what the teaching profession are best at, which is leading people away from the key argument and getting into all sorts of side arguments about why they cannot do a better job. I'm not interested in your excuses, just do what you are very well renumerated to do and you'll have no issue with me...

deemark wrote: »

No, that type of post is where the problem is! Everyone has been through the education system, so everyone's an expert. It's hardly a coincidence that people who had a bad experience at school are on a board berating teachers as being lazy and overpaid. Personal perception is not fact.

I've been to the doctors, I don't know and wouldn't presume to judge his/her job. Why not start a Prison Officer's thread for former criminals to post on:rolleyes:

Teaching seems to be the one area where people deem themselves qualified to judge because they've been in a classroom, even if it was a decade ago when the education system was a lot different.

No I'm not an expert, but I don't need an honours degree, a H. Dip or a PhD to know when someone just doesn't give a sh*t. The facts speak for themselves and they don't lie, one in six school leavers has no basic proficiency in maths. Are you seriously trying to tell me that one in six school leavers are special needs students?!?!?!?!? Personal perception is not fact, but 20% of school leavers not being able to add, is a fact and an unsavory fact at that.

SwanV

Does that 20% include people who fail honours maths?

Darragh29

SwanV wrote: »

Parent teacher meetings are conducted outside school hours.
If it doesn't suit a parent they can always schedule a meeting for another time that does. An early morning meeting. No big deal.

I spent 14 years as a student in schools too. It didn't qualify me to talk about teaching. Four years of college does.

That's great then, I've six years of DIT and university education behind me and all the letters that go with it...

Last I heard, the ASTI had directed ALL it's members to refuse to meet parents outside of school hours.

Darragh29

SwanV wrote: »

Does that 20% include people who fail honours maths?

No. The 20% is students who sat the LC foundation maths papers AND students that failed the LC ordinary maths papers.

In other words, 20% who failed to get a pass award at the LC ordinary maths level...

SwanV

In education?

namenotavailablE

Any percentage failing basic maths is obviously not a good result- we need to up our game in maths/science to attract FDI.

However, I think it needs to be noted that if 20% of the students taking the Applied/Ordinary maths papers failed those papers that it is not correct to state that 20% of school leavers failed maths .
It is correct however, to say that 20% of those taking certain maths papers (which represents a certain fraction of all school leavers) failed those papers- this might equate to saying 10% of leavers/ 5% of leavers etc have no proficiency in maths.

Darragh29

namenotavailabl wrote: »

Any percentage failing basic maths is obviously not a good result- we need to up our game in maths/science to attract FDI.

However, I think it needs to be noted that if 20% of the students taking the Applied/Ordinary maths papers failed those papers that it is not correct to state that 20% of school leavers failed maths .
It is correct however, to say that 20% of those taking certain maths papers (which represents a certain fraction of all school leavers) failed those papers- this might equate to saying 10% of leavers/ 5% of leavers etc have no proficiency in maths.

What I said was that 20% of people leaving school, had failed to achieve a pass grade in what is considered to be the minimum standard in maths for most jobs and for any college place, which is a D3 in the ordinary level paper.

No 3rd level will accept you with a fail in the ordinary level maths paper or a pass in the foundation level paper, the very minimum you will need is a D3 in the ordinary level paper, which 20% of leaving cert candidates failed to secure in 2008...

parsi

Darragh29 wrote: »

Well what you are forgetting is that I've been through the whole school system, and from what I recall, there are very few teachers that are any good at what they do.

There might have been the odd lad in a class that had to stay back a year or needed remedial classes for subjects like English, but from my recollection, most lads I was in school with, had the mental capability to be taught, they were able to digest information, retain it and understand what they were being taught...
.

My old school (many moons ago) had streamed classes and you can be damn sure that the lower streams had no interest in being in school and often seemed to have sweet all ability and wanted to bide their time until they could leave.

Like everybody else I had some dodgy teachers- I've also had dodgy lecturers, dodgy entrepreneurs, dodgy doctors and the like. I also had good teachers who were dedicated - in the weeks coming up to my leaving our maths teacher ran saturday morning classes, in earlier years another maths teacher ran a birdwatching club and the commerce teacher ran the astonomy club (for which after hours was necessary..).

DanSolo

segaBOY wrote: »

Glad we are clearing things up.

There was no confusion on my behalf. You assumed anyone who didn't agree with you was a teacher. You assumed wrong.

rainbowtrout

Darragh29 wrote: »

What I said was that 20% of people leaving school, had failed to achieve a pass grade in what is considered to be the minimum standard in maths for most jobs and for any college place, which is a D3 in the ordinary level paper.

No 3rd level will accept you with a fail in the ordinary level maths paper or a pass in the foundation level paper, the very minimum you will need is a D3 in the ordinary level paper, which 20% of leaving cert candidates failed to secure in 2008...

Actually a number of ITs accept a B3 or higher in Foundation Maths for some of their courses....

Not all students fail maths or any other subject because of poor teaching. I accept this may be a reason in some cases but not all. Some students refuse to take the level that they are able for, take a higher level and fail despite all the advice in the world. Some students just don't care and fail despite their ability. I was doing a demonstration in science today when a student took a rubber bung from a test tube and threw it at me and hit me in the face. He'll probably get a suspension for it. He doesn't want to be in school, he doesn't do anything when he is there except try and disrupt whatever class he is in. It's not because he doesn't have the ability or teachers are not teaching him. He simply does not want to learn and will very possibly fail my subject if he sticks it out to leaving cert. It's not because I'm not teaching him, he is refusing to do anything in my class except cause trouble. There are students like him up and down the country.

DanSolo

segaBOY wrote: »

So essentially it would lead to a company only employing 6 employees? As as you said, an "entrepeneur" didn't want to hire more than six staff due to salary reasons. (It would bump down his salary btw)

No, it would lead to a company employing as many people as they like. If the owner is too mean to hire more staff that's up to him, but someone can fill the void and do the same job.

Darragh29

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Actually a number of ITs accept a B3 or higher in Foundation Maths for some of their courses....

Not all students fail maths or any other subject because of poor teaching. I accept this may be a reason in some cases but not all. Some students refuse to take the level that they are able for, take a higher level and fail despite all the advice in the world. Some students just don't care and fail despite their ability. I was doing a demonstration in science today when a student took a rubber bung from a test tube and threw it at me and hit me in the face. He'll probably get a suspension for it. He doesn't want to be in school, he doesn't do anything when he is there except try and disrupt whatever class he is in. It's not because he doesn't have the ability or teachers are not teaching him. He simply does not want to learn and will very possibly fail my subject if he sticks it out to leaving cert. It's not because I'm not teaching him, he is refusing to do anything in my class except cause trouble. There are students like him up and down the country.

Well I'd argue that you haven't tried hard enough to work with him with a view to encouraging him that his better interests lie in applying himself and getting a decent leaving cert.

Tell me, when you did you H. Dip, were you not trained how to work with students to overcome these kind of difficulties???