Schools to close on 24th November

herya · 17-11-2009 1:01pm

Ogham wrote: »

There are some 11 countries spending a higher percentage on salaries than Ireland (Portugal, Mexico, Belgium, Chile, Italy, Poland, Turkey and a few others)
Interesting that not very many of these countries appeared in the top performers list in Science ( http://dx.doi.org/10.1787/664076271473)

Not surprising, seeing how you need equipment (i.e. money) for science.

DanSolo · 17-11-2009 1:02pm

herya wrote: »

Ass whipping? Sounds just like a retired teacher You've provided nothing even close to facts in this thread.

Nice factless post that fails to address any of the points. Well done.
Any actual comment?

DanSolo · 17-11-2009 1:04pm

Ogham wrote: »

This OECD link gives some figures on salary expenditure as percentage of total education spend (2006)
http://dx.doi.org/10.1787/664447618002
There are some 11 countries spending a higher percentage on salaries than Ireland (Portugal, Mexico, Belgium, Chile, Italy, Poland, Turkey and a few others)
Interesting that not very many of these countries appeared in the top performers list in Science ( http://dx.doi.org/10.1787/664076271473)

It turns out we're higher than most of them on the OECD maths ability scale.
Not good the "poor value for money" brigade that, is it?

Stark · 17-11-2009 1:05pm

All that limited information showed was that the results are inversely proportional to the money put in. So it's not helping your argument at all.

DanSolo · 17-11-2009 1:07pm

Stark wrote: »

All that limited information showed was that the results are inversely proportional to the money put in. So it's not helping your argument at all.

So if we put in zero money we'll be top of the table? Do explain how that works. Bryan Cowen would love to know.

sonic.trip · 17-11-2009 1:08pm

DanSolo wrote: »

Your bluster does little to hide your embarrassment.

your crap talking does littlle to hide the truth...

if your not a teacher you have a vested interest in it, in someway. . .

Stark · 17-11-2009 1:09pm

Same way a 100% tax makes us the most money I guess. All I'm saying is that drawing conclusions from the information above does not help your argument that we should be spending more.

S.L.F · 17-11-2009 1:12pm

Darragh29 wrote: »

As a teacher, you are entitled to take 30 uncertfiied sick days a year

Don't suppose you want to tell us what the average number of sickdays is taken by teachers is in Ireland.

Would you believe the average sick leave taken by teachers in Ireland is 1 day a year.

Ogham wrote: »

Figures here show that in Science - Ireland came 19th - behind the Uk , Finland, NZ, China, Canada, holland, Slovenia, Germany,Estomia Belgium, Austria to name a few.

That's fantastic a real credit to our teachers a little auld country with 4 million people coming 19th in the world league.

I'm proud to be Irish.

Thank God we have great teachers.

DanSolo · 17-11-2009 1:12pm

sonic.trip wrote: »

your crap talking does littlle to hide the truth...

if your not a teacher you have a vested interest in it, in someway. . .

Nice guesswork dude.
Any private sector guys actually interested in the facts being discussed? Maths pass rates? Percentage spending? Come on, apparently you know all the answers.

sonic.trip · 17-11-2009 1:14pm

maybe Dan's boyfriend is a teacher. . . do you not realise we are borrowing 400million a week to keep paying these wasters well over the odds. I can tell you they are all not even worth five euro an hour, I had some of the worst wasters teaching me years ago . . get rid of them all and start again

DanSolo · 17-11-2009 1:15pm

Stark wrote: »

Same way a 100% tax makes us the most money I guess. All I'm saying is that drawing conclusions from the information above does not help your argument that we should be spending more.

Except I didn't. What I said was it would make as much sense to increase teacher wages as decrease them on the basis of performance when there is so such performance data presented.
And as it turns out any data we have says that Irish teachers do well internationally in proportion to the percentage spend of the education budget on wages.

Stark · 17-11-2009 1:15pm

DanSolo wrote: »

Nice guesswork dude.
Any private sector guys actually interested in the facts being discussed? Maths pass rates? Percentage spending? Come on, apparently you know all the answers.

You've already been given those things. I'm going to put you on ignore until you actually start to bother reading people's replies and stop asking the same questions over and over again.

DanSolo · 17-11-2009 1:16pm

sonic.trip wrote: »

maybe Dan's boyfriend is a teacher. . . do you not realise we are borrowing 400million a week to keep paying these wasters well over the odds. I can tell you they are all not even worth five euro an hour, I had some of the worst wasters teaching me years ago . . get rid of them all and start again

Now that you've called me a homosexual I really must agree that all your points are valid. :rolleyes:

sonic.trip · 17-11-2009 1:16pm

DanSolo wrote: »

Nice guesswork dude.
Any private sector guys actually interested in the facts being discussed? Maths pass rates? Percentage spending? Come on, apparently you know all the answers.

and where is your figures on the:

average number of teacher sick pay days,
average number of paid holiday days per year,
average pension of a teacher
the number of teachers that have been made unemployed over the last year

?????????

sonic.trip · 17-11-2009 1:17pm

DanSolo wrote: »

Now that you've called me a homosexual I really must agree that all your points are valid. :rolleyes:

sorry you sounded like a danielle to me. . .

Ogham · 17-11-2009 1:21pm

DanSolo wrote: »

It turns out we're higher than most of them on the OECD maths ability scale.
Not good the "poor value for money" brigade that, is it?

Figures here show that Ireland is about 20th in Maths Performance (PISA 2006) See tab f6.20b in spreadsheet.
That's not good value for money is it ?
Of the 20 countries above us only 3 are countries with a higher % spend on salaries. ( belguim, switzerland and Japan)

We did ok for Reading though - 6th (see tab f6.8b) (The five countries above us all have a lower % spend on salary)

herya · 17-11-2009 1:21pm

S.L.F wrote: »

That's fantastic a real credit to our teachers a little auld country with 4 million people coming 19th in the world league.

I'm proud to be Irish.

Thank God we have great teachers.

Great achievement for the highest paid teachers indeed. 1st translated to 19th

sonic.trip · 17-11-2009 1:21pm

DanSolo wrote: »

I really must agree that all your points are valid. :rolleyes:

I'm glad you agree we are borrowing 400 million euro a week to pay these over paid, sub-standard teachers who will not take a pay cut to help the Irish economy get back on track in some way. . .

murphaph · 17-11-2009 1:29pm

Ogham wrote: »

Figures here show that Ireland is about 20th in Maths Performance (PISA 2006) See tab f6.20b in spreadsheet.
That's not good value for money is it ?
Of the 20 countries above us only 3 are countries with a higher % spend on salaries. ( belguim, switzerland and Japan)

We did ok for Reading though - 6th (see tab f6.8b) (The five countries above us all have a lower % spend on salary)

The teachers don't appear to like this OECD report Ogham. Good find!

K-9 · 17-11-2009 1:29pm

Ogham wrote: »

Originally Posted by K-9 View Post
Any examples of countries with 77% of education expenditure on pay having good education systems?

It's not that good....

The recent OECD report on Ireland said the following about Education in Ireland

"the percentage of the entire education budget spent on teachers’ pay at primary, secondary and third level – some 75 per cent – is well above average among developed states."

It also comments on the myth of the excellent education system here...

"Ireland is close to international norms in terms of educational attainment for the resources committed. Overall, the education outcomes at secondary level are, it points out, good relative to the OECD average, but not as good as in the best performing countries. Performance in maths and science is, it says, below that of other high-income states."

Figures here show that in Science - Ireland came 19th - behind the Uk , Finland, NZ, China, Canada, holland, Slovenia, Germany,Estomia Belgium, Austria to name a few.

Apart from all these facts - the idea of any union calling a strike before any cuts have been announced is ridiculous.

Ogham wrote: »

This OECD link gives some figures on salary expenditure as percentage of total education spend (2006)
http://dx.doi.org/10.1787/664447618002
There are some 11 countries spending a higher percentage on salaries than Ireland (Portugal, Mexico, Belgium, Chile, Italy, Poland, Turkey and a few others)
Interesting that not very many of these countries appeared in the top performers list in Science ( http://dx.doi.org/10.1787/664076271473)

Cheers, was trying to find something on it last night. It's good to see independent data on it for unbiased people to make up their own mind.

Maths wouldn't appear to be a strong point alright. Look at this thread! :rolleyes:

DanSolo · 17-11-2009 1:30pm

Stark wrote: »

You've already been given those things. I'm going to put you on ignore until you actually start to bother reading people's replies and stop asking the same questions over and over again.

The 20% maths fail rate was PROVEN WRONG.
The premise that Irish teachers perform badly relative to the percentage of the education budget spent on their wages was PROVEN WRONG.
Try acknowledging any of these things before telling me I'm not listening.

DanSolo · 17-11-2009 1:32pm

sonic.trip wrote: »

and where is your figures on the:
average number of teacher sick pay days,

S.L.F wrote: »

Would you believe the average sick leave taken by teachers in Ireland is 1 day a year.

Why are you deliberately skipping posts here?

DanSolo · 17-11-2009 1:33pm

sonic.trip wrote: »

sorry you sounded like a danielle to me. . .

Oh good. As well as being a homophobe you're sexist. The private sector boys must love having you on their side.

K-9 · 17-11-2009 1:37pm

DanSolo wrote: »

Oh good. As well as being a homophobe you're sexist. The private sector boys must love having you on their side.

What the hell are you on about now?

DanSolo · 17-11-2009 1:38pm

K-9 wrote: »

It's good to see independent data on it for unbiased people to make up their own mind.

Thanks. I posted those yesterday.

ardmacha · 17-11-2009 1:39pm

"the percentage of the entire education budget spent on teachers’ pay at primary, secondary and third level – some 75 per cent – is well above average among developed states."

This is a proportion, this can be increased by spending more on teachers or by spending less on everything else. Ireland has adopted a policy of overall underspending on education and paying people in system reasonably well to keep the thing going.

"Ireland is close to international norms in terms of educational attainment for the resources committed.

"

I.e. not bad considering the limited resources devoted to it and so reasonable value for money.

Can we say that Health (say) in Ireland is close to international norms for the resources committed?

Nobody pretends that education is perfect, but neither has it caused the present problems nor has it caused public finance problems relative to other States since the total amount spent on it is not excessive.

DanSolo · 17-11-2009 1:40pm

K-9 wrote: »

What the hell are you on about now?

You are aware that trying to make some point about a poster's sexual orientation or gender is homophobic and sexist?
No, guess you didn't.

herya · 17-11-2009 1:47pm

ardmacha wrote: »

Nobody pretends that education is perfect, but neither has it caused the present problems nor has it caused public finance problems relative to other States since the total amount spent on it is not excessive.

The only argument possibly strong enough to let teachers keep their world's highest salaries when the country goes under would be if Ireland had world's best education, no buts and reservations. It doesn't. End of story.

There is no money, full stop.

sonic.trip · 17-11-2009 2:01pm

DanSolo wrote: »

Oh good. As well as being a homophobe you're sexist. The private sector boys must love having you on their side.

Im not a homophobe or sexist, my best friend is gay. I assumed you were a woman.

As for the private sector comment, if you actually READ the previous posts you will find I'm unemployed. See they done a terrible job of teaching you to read as well....

Great value for money, makes me want to give them more money :rolleyes:

Darragh29 · 17-11-2009 2:14pm

DanSolo wrote: »

Since your 20% has already been shown to be wrong, all your follow ons are invalid.

My 20% statistic was shown to be wrong?!?!?!?

The facts are available here, my 20% statistic is 100% accurate and can be verified here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaving_Certificate_Mathematics

The FACT, is that 20% of all students who did a leaving cert in 2008, failed to achieve a pass award at the leaving cert ordinary maths level... This means they either sat the foundation paper or else failed the ordinary level paper...

Schools to close on 24th November

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